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I switched to GSL after game 3.. didn't think they were doing tiebreakers to actually place them
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On November 10 2012 16:11 liberate71 wrote:
I missed them, but were the games good to watch? or showing a bit of exploitation?
The first Flash vs Parting game was a good game with some cute Widow Mine usage in the beginning, but it quickly devolved into a standard WoL game as Flash went into tryhard mode and Parting joined in as well.
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On November 10 2012 16:11 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 16:06 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:55 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:43 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:39 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:32 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:28 Laryleprakon wrote:On November 10 2012 15:23 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:18 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:16 larse wrote:
It's not that Blizzard now can't get the job done. Yes, they can, but in a very mediocre way and has very mediocre results. It's a bunch of professional clerks but nothing more. People keep saying Blizzard is not the Blizzard anymore. I don't agree with them since many old people are still there but it's just in general they are turning into something very mediocre and uninspiring. Except MoP was apparently really good, HotS seems to be addressing every major problem people had with SC2, and D3 has done nothing but improve into an incredibly solid successor to D2 (with a ton more to come). MoP is controversial--it's not like that a super majority is satisfied. The consensus on D3 from a very positive community (reddit) is that it has done some great things but failed in some major ways (even with 1.0.5). Compared to every expansion but BC MOP was the best and it seems to be doing really well. So far I'm pretty pleased with HOTS and the extra features for everything outside the game that is being added, hopefully they keep listening to feedback and this game only improves. Considering the past ~3 months, safe to say we finally have a Blizzard that's on our side. Community maps actively being sought out, global mode, levelling/casual friendly updates, social focus/fixes? And the fact they're actively trying to fix what people don't like about WoL (cu warhound)? Think we can actually feel relaxed with the direction of things, finally. On November 10 2012 15:31 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:27 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:25 felisconcolori wrote:On November 10 2012 15:21 felisconcolori wrote:
So, protoss air is getting to be an actual option, if you have soul. Well, until Corruptors show up. They still seem to be the end all be all of air superiority fighter. It's more zerg production & income that makes corruptors good (+ their amazing upgrade scaling). Still a garbage, boring ass unit on any other race lol On November 10 2012 15:25 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:23 Jehct wrote:
[quote]
With the way the corruptor works (so gd tanky and massable, + infestor support) pure air is never going to be good. Need that HT support. Time warp + storm should be ridiculous, though ^_^
[quote]
No one is calling D3 a failure anymore, they just want shit like PvP/other stuff that has been announced as coming. Well, aside from the garbage story, that is. I didn't say it's a failure. "failed in some major ways" > the only thing people still legitimately call a failure is the plot. LOL. I also said it has great things. That's not what I said. It's something that get upvoted to the very top in reddit at one point. And their consensual complains are much more than plot. it's not a failure ok? I didn't mean to imply you said it was a failure, I just meant to say the only 'major failure' left is the story (with everything else that bothers people being confirmed 'in development'). Also, saying reddit is a 'positive' community is pretty incorrect. It's a hivemind/bandwagon community - if anything, they're the ones that propagated the 'D3 IS A FUCKING AWFUL FAILURE' mentality. 1. Yeah, they get the things done, as I said. But they do it in a very mediocre, uninspiring way. A few example may be the 1.5 UI, Custom map interview blog articles don't have a single screenshots, etc. They are better recently but they still don't get what should be necessary units, balance, and strategies for HOTS. It's quite easy to figure out in fact. 2. I think reddit is the most positive D3 community. Others are like making Jay Wilson look like Hitler everyday. reddit was the first to make jay wilson look like hitler (after that facebook post - talk about invasion of privacy?). You want them to hype up beta shit that is still being worked on? When SC2 was still in alpha they did that, and I'm guessing they decided to focus on actually fucking developing things this time, cos the opinions of people who haven't gotten to play with stuff are less than worthless. I can't think of any particular 'necessary' unit niche that's missing in HotS now. Could you give any examples of what you think is missing? In it's current state it's a skirmish-heavy, action packed game much more akin to broodwar, as opposed to the stalemate/deathballing macro of WoL. OK. I didn't do an extensive research on this topic but something has just come to mind that for example can make immortal work. 1. Widow mine becomes a mine maker that makes free or unfree mines. (resolve the common criticisms of mines take up huge supply) 2. Incorporate some features from warhound into hellbat and make it an independent unit. So that it can fend off chargelot (like what they do right now) at the same time weaken protoss mech. It can move at 2.81 speed (like warhound) instead of 2.25. It can have slightly more HP. It definitely needs to remove bio tag due to archon's bonus damage. It can have a secondary attack (like warhound in a way but not so OP) 3. Immortal's shield can be reduced to 80. So Terran mech can be more viable. At the same time Protoss doesn't need to worry too much about 111 build because of the mama core. Also, PvZ can be changed to get out of the boring 3 immortal all-ins, while making Zerg's late-game not so impossible to deal with (tempest is a great solution and I love it). That's all just tuning stuff, nothing to do with roles or niches (and don't know if any of it is needed, mech vP is already really viable with the changes). Widow mine already essentially makes 'free mines' with the 'nuke every 40s' redesign, so don't know what that would change (haven't really heard of the supply cost being an issue since this change). Half the point of mines is to take supply out of the mech army - sounds like you're trying to go in completely the other direction with the design (which doesn't really make sense). True. They are not very new.  But that just takes like 5 minutes. If someone's full-time work is to think about new roles. It's not that hard to do. At least not as hard as Dustin Browder's "I have no idea about HOTS, ask me in 6 months."
? Dbro & the team have done a ton of iterating that we've seen (which means about 10x more private builds) and are looking to be in a pretty solid/innovative position with the latest builds. Tuning is an incredibly delicate process that you have to approach slowly - they're doing it right by saying "well shit, we can't really know yet. We're gonna watch the beta and adjust as we see things develop".
Over-adjusting just ends up being counterproductive (think a pendulum effect).
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Oh what the hell they did tiebreakers? How were the games? I switched to GSTL 
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On November 10 2012 16:19 Phaint wrote:Oh what the hell they did tiebreakers? How were the games? I switched to GSTL
Effort did a fail baneling bust vs Parting and Parting went to his base with oracles and units and killed everything
Then Parting did a blink all in with mama core against Flash and won
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tiebreaker matches were really bad you didn't miss much
baneling bust fail into parting win, 3 gate blink mship core all in into win.
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On November 10 2012 16:15 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 16:11 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 16:06 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:55 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:43 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:39 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:32 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:28 Laryleprakon wrote:On November 10 2012 15:23 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:18 Jehct wrote:
[quote]
Except MoP was apparently really good, HotS seems to be addressing every major problem people had with SC2, and D3 has done nothing but improve into an incredibly solid successor to D2 (with a ton more to come). MoP is controversial--it's not like that a super majority is satisfied. The consensus on D3 from a very positive community (reddit) is that it has done some great things but failed in some major ways (even with 1.0.5). Compared to every expansion but BC MOP was the best and it seems to be doing really well. So far I'm pretty pleased with HOTS and the extra features for everything outside the game that is being added, hopefully they keep listening to feedback and this game only improves. Considering the past ~3 months, safe to say we finally have a Blizzard that's on our side. Community maps actively being sought out, global mode, levelling/casual friendly updates, social focus/fixes? And the fact they're actively trying to fix what people don't like about WoL (cu warhound)? Think we can actually feel relaxed with the direction of things, finally. On November 10 2012 15:31 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:27 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:25 felisconcolori wrote:
[quote]
Well, until Corruptors show up. They still seem to be the end all be all of air superiority fighter. It's more zerg production & income that makes corruptors good (+ their amazing upgrade scaling). Still a garbage, boring ass unit on any other race lol On November 10 2012 15:25 larse wrote:
[quote]
I didn't say it's a failure. "failed in some major ways" > the only thing people still legitimately call a failure is the plot. LOL. I also said it has great things. That's not what I said. It's something that get upvoted to the very top in reddit at one point. And their consensual complains are much more than plot. it's not a failure ok? I didn't mean to imply you said it was a failure, I just meant to say the only 'major failure' left is the story (with everything else that bothers people being confirmed 'in development'). Also, saying reddit is a 'positive' community is pretty incorrect. It's a hivemind/bandwagon community - if anything, they're the ones that propagated the 'D3 IS A FUCKING AWFUL FAILURE' mentality. 1. Yeah, they get the things done, as I said. But they do it in a very mediocre, uninspiring way. A few example may be the 1.5 UI, Custom map interview blog articles don't have a single screenshots, etc. They are better recently but they still don't get what should be necessary units, balance, and strategies for HOTS. It's quite easy to figure out in fact. 2. I think reddit is the most positive D3 community. Others are like making Jay Wilson look like Hitler everyday. reddit was the first to make jay wilson look like hitler (after that facebook post - talk about invasion of privacy?). You want them to hype up beta shit that is still being worked on? When SC2 was still in alpha they did that, and I'm guessing they decided to focus on actually fucking developing things this time, cos the opinions of people who haven't gotten to play with stuff are less than worthless. I can't think of any particular 'necessary' unit niche that's missing in HotS now. Could you give any examples of what you think is missing? In it's current state it's a skirmish-heavy, action packed game much more akin to broodwar, as opposed to the stalemate/deathballing macro of WoL. OK. I didn't do an extensive research on this topic but something has just come to mind that for example can make immortal work. 1. Widow mine becomes a mine maker that makes free or unfree mines. (resolve the common criticisms of mines take up huge supply) 2. Incorporate some features from warhound into hellbat and make it an independent unit. So that it can fend off chargelot (like what they do right now) at the same time weaken protoss mech. It can move at 2.81 speed (like warhound) instead of 2.25. It can have slightly more HP. It definitely needs to remove bio tag due to archon's bonus damage. It can have a secondary attack (like warhound in a way but not so OP) 3. Immortal's shield can be reduced to 80. So Terran mech can be more viable. At the same time Protoss doesn't need to worry too much about 111 build because of the mama core. Also, PvZ can be changed to get out of the boring 3 immortal all-ins, while making Zerg's late-game not so impossible to deal with (tempest is a great solution and I love it). That's all just tuning stuff, nothing to do with roles or niches (and don't know if any of it is needed, mech vP is already really viable with the changes). Widow mine already essentially makes 'free mines' with the 'nuke every 40s' redesign, so don't know what that would change (haven't really heard of the supply cost being an issue since this change). Half the point of mines is to take supply out of the mech army - sounds like you're trying to go in completely the other direction with the design (which doesn't really make sense). True. They are not very new. But that just takes like 5 minutes. If someone's full-time work is to think about new roles. It's not that hard to do. At least not as hard as Dustin Browder's "I have no idea about HOTS, ask me in 6 months." ? Dbro & the team have done a ton of iterating that we've seen (which means about 10x more private builds) and are looking to be in a pretty solid/innovative position with the latest builds. Tuning is an incredibly delicate process that you have to approach slowly - they're doing it right by saying "well shit, we can't really know yet. We're gonna watch the beta and adjust as we see things develop". Over-adjusting just ends up being counterproductive (think a pendulum effect).
He said that "I have no idea about HOTS. Ask me in 6 months" here:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488/The-Game-Design-of-STARCRAFT
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When was this done?
DB... he always seems to say things that make my blood boil.
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On November 10 2012 17:14 Aetherial wrote:When was this done? DB... he always seems to say things that make my blood boil.
That was at the 2011 Game Developers Conference (GDC) in San Francisco (Feb./March).
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On November 10 2012 18:08 Proseat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 17:14 Aetherial wrote:When was this done? DB... he always seems to say things that make my blood boil. That was at the 2011 Game Developers Conference (GDC) in San Francisco (Feb./March).
Having no idea about a game in alpha, what a prick -_-
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Bloody hell. Exact simulation of a 16-player DE bracket is hard work.
I'll have numbers in... a few hours.
Edit: Durrrr, wrong thread.
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the first i see of hots. it looks incredibly stale and boring. 
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On November 10 2012 18:58 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 18:08 Proseat wrote:On November 10 2012 17:14 Aetherial wrote:When was this done? DB... he always seems to say things that make my blood boil. That was at the 2011 Game Developers Conference (GDC) in San Francisco (Feb./March). Having no idea about a game in alpha, what a prick -_-
I'm not sure whether you are serious or not... Maybe I'm just a Romanian but I doubt HOTS's development had been started at that time.
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Dominican Republic31 Posts
On November 11 2012 03:14 Elroi wrote:the first i see of hots. it looks incredibly stale and boring.
actually the game its new, and majority of this players they dont know how to use new units with new strats, you should give them time and time to the game to develop, i do see a ton of fun and variety on hots
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Wow, worst observer ever.
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I think it is sensible to worry about Heart of the Swarm, after all we can be reasonably sure of what current problems it will or will not fix - even if we have no clue about what new problems it will cause.
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Hmmm, day of the Kongs XD
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Today's games should be more fun, I can't see these guys trying to hard to win.
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On November 10 2012 16:44 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 16:15 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 16:11 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 16:06 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:55 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:43 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:39 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:32 Jehct wrote:On November 10 2012 15:28 Laryleprakon wrote:On November 10 2012 15:23 larse wrote:
[quote]
MoP is controversial--it's not like that a super majority is satisfied. The consensus on D3 from a very positive community (reddit) is that it has done some great things but failed in some major ways (even with 1.0.5). Compared to every expansion but BC MOP was the best and it seems to be doing really well. So far I'm pretty pleased with HOTS and the extra features for everything outside the game that is being added, hopefully they keep listening to feedback and this game only improves. Considering the past ~3 months, safe to say we finally have a Blizzard that's on our side. Community maps actively being sought out, global mode, levelling/casual friendly updates, social focus/fixes? And the fact they're actively trying to fix what people don't like about WoL (cu warhound)? Think we can actually feel relaxed with the direction of things, finally. On November 10 2012 15:31 larse wrote:On November 10 2012 15:27 Jehct wrote:
[quote]
It's more zerg production & income that makes corruptors good (+ their amazing upgrade scaling). Still a garbage, boring ass unit on any other race lol
[quote]
"failed in some major ways" > the only thing people still legitimately call a failure is the plot. LOL. I also said it has great things. That's not what I said. It's something that get upvoted to the very top in reddit at one point. And their consensual complains are much more than plot. it's not a failure ok? I didn't mean to imply you said it was a failure, I just meant to say the only 'major failure' left is the story (with everything else that bothers people being confirmed 'in development'). Also, saying reddit is a 'positive' community is pretty incorrect. It's a hivemind/bandwagon community - if anything, they're the ones that propagated the 'D3 IS A FUCKING AWFUL FAILURE' mentality. 1. Yeah, they get the things done, as I said. But they do it in a very mediocre, uninspiring way. A few example may be the 1.5 UI, Custom map interview blog articles don't have a single screenshots, etc. They are better recently but they still don't get what should be necessary units, balance, and strategies for HOTS. It's quite easy to figure out in fact. 2. I think reddit is the most positive D3 community. Others are like making Jay Wilson look like Hitler everyday. reddit was the first to make jay wilson look like hitler (after that facebook post - talk about invasion of privacy?). You want them to hype up beta shit that is still being worked on? When SC2 was still in alpha they did that, and I'm guessing they decided to focus on actually fucking developing things this time, cos the opinions of people who haven't gotten to play with stuff are less than worthless. I can't think of any particular 'necessary' unit niche that's missing in HotS now. Could you give any examples of what you think is missing? In it's current state it's a skirmish-heavy, action packed game much more akin to broodwar, as opposed to the stalemate/deathballing macro of WoL. OK. I didn't do an extensive research on this topic but something has just come to mind that for example can make immortal work. 1. Widow mine becomes a mine maker that makes free or unfree mines. (resolve the common criticisms of mines take up huge supply) 2. Incorporate some features from warhound into hellbat and make it an independent unit. So that it can fend off chargelot (like what they do right now) at the same time weaken protoss mech. It can move at 2.81 speed (like warhound) instead of 2.25. It can have slightly more HP. It definitely needs to remove bio tag due to archon's bonus damage. It can have a secondary attack (like warhound in a way but not so OP) 3. Immortal's shield can be reduced to 80. So Terran mech can be more viable. At the same time Protoss doesn't need to worry too much about 111 build because of the mama core. Also, PvZ can be changed to get out of the boring 3 immortal all-ins, while making Zerg's late-game not so impossible to deal with (tempest is a great solution and I love it). That's all just tuning stuff, nothing to do with roles or niches (and don't know if any of it is needed, mech vP is already really viable with the changes). Widow mine already essentially makes 'free mines' with the 'nuke every 40s' redesign, so don't know what that would change (haven't really heard of the supply cost being an issue since this change). Half the point of mines is to take supply out of the mech army - sounds like you're trying to go in completely the other direction with the design (which doesn't really make sense). True. They are not very new. But that just takes like 5 minutes. If someone's full-time work is to think about new roles. It's not that hard to do. At least not as hard as Dustin Browder's "I have no idea about HOTS, ask me in 6 months." ? Dbro & the team have done a ton of iterating that we've seen (which means about 10x more private builds) and are looking to be in a pretty solid/innovative position with the latest builds. Tuning is an incredibly delicate process that you have to approach slowly - they're doing it right by saying "well shit, we can't really know yet. We're gonna watch the beta and adjust as we see things develop". Over-adjusting just ends up being counterproductive (think a pendulum effect). He said that "I have no idea about HOTS. Ask me in 6 months" here: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488/The-Game-Design-of-STARCRAFT
It's been 18 months since he said that, so I'm not sure the relevance.
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EPT
