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Ive seen Sea going mech in TvP and winning with the surprise factor.
It'll be surprising to see if the Kespa terrans manage to make mech work. Most likely its impossible
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On November 05 2012 20:50 Maloreon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:48 Laryleprakon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:45 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:44 vthree wrote:On November 05 2012 20:42 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:41 pmp10 wrote:On November 05 2012 20:39 Noocta wrote:On November 05 2012 20:37 Severian wrote:On November 05 2012 20:34 Noocta wrote:On November 05 2012 20:32 Severian wrote:
Is everyone complaining forgetting that MVP built 20 pretty useless tanks then sent them to their deaths with nothing but a few infestor kills to show for it, leaving his final army much smaller? Mvp actually got a lot done with his tank raids. The obs didn't catch all of it, but he made the BLs fly everywhere but at his base for a long time, and he killed a base + the greater spire On November 05 2012 20:34 Wildmoon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:32 Severian wrote:
Is everyone complaining forgetting that MVP built 20 pretty useless tanks then sent them to their deaths with nothing but a few infestor kills to show for it, leaving his final army much smaller? It's his tanks that bought time for him to mass air. Ok, I should've put it another way: everyone's acting like MVP had a 200-supply zerg-killing army of doom, whereas in reality it was like 8 Ravens, 15 Vikings and almost nothing else. Yeah, if he had've won the air battle because omg seeker missile so awesome~ he might've held off that attack for a bit, but there was no way he could actually win with that army. Flash will be doing this next year and you will feel pretty stupid. Thanks though. Oh yeah, ofc Mvp was dead. His sky army was too small to win the game, people thinking he had a chance are desulionnal. That's not the point. Even if he had 150 supply army the rest of it would have to be in ground units to defend against the tech switch. Uhh no. If they were even economically and Terran plays right he should crush a weak Roach army with a few tanks and some Banshees. Seriously a well crafted Terran army CAN do this, just nobody is even trying. Makes me sad. Yes, the best terrans in the world cannot do it but some TL poster has the solution!!! Flash will be doing this next year and you will feel pretty stupid then. Whatever though, someone tries a suggestion, Terrans are too negative these days. Flash will just win with bio ^_^ Well true, but he will win with everything. I do think he's going to show some broken Terran end-game armies though. He's already looking so good.
Lost 4 maps in a row against Life yesterday. His mech looked very bad.
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On November 05 2012 20:50 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:49 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:47 vthree wrote:On November 05 2012 20:44 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:41 brofestor wrote:On November 05 2012 20:39 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:37 figq wrote:
I only wonder that people choose *this* game to make comparisons between late game armies. In this game zerg won significant economic advantage much earlier before late game, and just pressed it methodically. EXACTLY. And yet despite how close it was with MVP being miles behind, no Terrans are doing this style correctly: 1. BFH to get a lead. 2. FULL TURTLE with tanks and turrets, PF's, unbreakable. 3. Mass Thor, Viking, Raven, Ghost combo. 4. SMASH! with you and your 3 measly bases? zerg would have all the other bases and his creep would spread to your doorstep, and he can remax his army many times over and yeah MVP shld have 11/11 at least once. why he didnt do that. You can easily turtle 4-5 base and get any units you want watch Hack vs. Zerg from up/downs. Anyway, its the same thing that Zerg do right now turtle to make perfect army that one shots all other armies. Economy is important but even if Zerg has the whole map if you craft the right army you can and will win. I believe! Didn't Hack lose to both zergs in his U&D group (Hyun and B4)? No Hack won against the Kespa Zerg doing the build I'm talking about, AFTER failing a 2 rax (huge economic lead for the Zerg). Granted the Zerg did not play perfect, but neither did Hack... and I can guarantee 100% no one in here is as good as Hack... so it is possible to do this. That game is a pretty bad example, zerg sat and waited with a maxed army for so long. I agree that style has potential tho.
That is all I'm saying, if it works from a huge economic disadvantage then it could work pretty smoothly from even footing. I wish some Terrans would try. I think its the same thing with Mech last year though the mechanics for most players are not there yet, its pretty demanding and requires incredible positioning to be fair.
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On November 05 2012 20:50 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:49 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:47 vthree wrote:On November 05 2012 20:44 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:41 brofestor wrote:On November 05 2012 20:39 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:37 figq wrote:
I only wonder that people choose *this* game to make comparisons between late game armies. In this game zerg won significant economic advantage much earlier before late game, and just pressed it methodically. EXACTLY. And yet despite how close it was with MVP being miles behind, no Terrans are doing this style correctly: 1. BFH to get a lead. 2. FULL TURTLE with tanks and turrets, PF's, unbreakable. 3. Mass Thor, Viking, Raven, Ghost combo. 4. SMASH! with you and your 3 measly bases? zerg would have all the other bases and his creep would spread to your doorstep, and he can remax his army many times over and yeah MVP shld have 11/11 at least once. why he didnt do that. You can easily turtle 4-5 base and get any units you want watch Hack vs. Zerg from up/downs. Anyway, its the same thing that Zerg do right now turtle to make perfect army that one shots all other armies. Economy is important but even if Zerg has the whole map if you craft the right army you can and will win. I believe! Didn't Hack lose to both zergs in his U&D group (Hyun and B4)? No Hack won against the Kespa Zerg doing the build I'm talking about, AFTER failing a 2 rax (huge economic lead for the Zerg). Granted the Zerg did not play perfect, but neither did Hack... and I can guarantee 100% no one in here is as good as Hack... so it is possible to do this. That game is a pretty bad example, zerg sat and waited with a maxed army for so long. I agree that style has potential tho.
thats something no gm z would do. so...nope
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On November 05 2012 20:51 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:50 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:48 Laryleprakon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:45 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:44 vthree wrote:On November 05 2012 20:42 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:41 pmp10 wrote:On November 05 2012 20:39 Noocta wrote:On November 05 2012 20:37 Severian wrote:On November 05 2012 20:34 Noocta wrote:
[quote]
Mvp actually got a lot done with his tank raids.
The obs didn't catch all of it, but he made the BLs fly everywhere but at his base for a long time, and he killed a base + the greater spire On November 05 2012 20:34 Wildmoon wrote:
[quote]
It's his tanks that bought time for him to mass air. Ok, I should've put it another way: everyone's acting like MVP had a 200-supply zerg-killing army of doom, whereas in reality it was like 8 Ravens, 15 Vikings and almost nothing else. Yeah, if he had've won the air battle because omg seeker missile so awesome~ he might've held off that attack for a bit, but there was no way he could actually win with that army. Flash will be doing this next year and you will feel pretty stupid. Thanks though. Oh yeah, ofc Mvp was dead. His sky army was too small to win the game, people thinking he had a chance are desulionnal. That's not the point. Even if he had 150 supply army the rest of it would have to be in ground units to defend against the tech switch. Uhh no. If they were even economically and Terran plays right he should crush a weak Roach army with a few tanks and some Banshees. Seriously a well crafted Terran army CAN do this, just nobody is even trying. Makes me sad. Yes, the best terrans in the world cannot do it but some TL poster has the solution!!! Flash will be doing this next year and you will feel pretty stupid then. Whatever though, someone tries a suggestion, Terrans are too negative these days. Flash will just win with bio ^_^ Well true, but he will win with everything. I do think he's going to show some broken Terran end-game armies though. He's already looking so good. Lost 4 maps in a row against Life yesterday. His mech looked very bad.
His mech looked good in TvT for sure. And sir, everyone is losing to Life right now 4-0. EVERYONE.
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Norway25712 Posts
 Bbyong v  Creator
0 - 1Maps:Daybreak
Entombed ValleyTBD 05.00Bbyong spawning as the blue Terran in the 11 o'clock position. Creator spawning as the red Protoss in the 7 o'clock position. Standard gateway for Creator. Bbyong going CC first, in his main. Gas started for Creator. Barracks on the ramp, Cybernetics Core for Creator. Second Barracks finishes the wall for Bbyong. Probe scouts the double rax, but not the CC building. Nexus down on the natural for Creator, warpgate tech started. CC turned into OC before it's lifted down. Two more Barracks added on for Bbyong.
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On November 05 2012 20:48 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:45 NicksonReyes wrote:On November 05 2012 20:43 Vorenius wrote:On November 05 2012 20:29 Maloreon wrote:
Buff Ravens already (saying this as a Zerg). Reduce cost of HSM, make raven buildable from no tech lab imo. I'd love what that would do to the metagame. That would simply make Ravens the terran equivelant of Infestors. Balancing OP with more OP will just cause more terrible terrible damage. Balancing OP with more OP was how BW was balanced lol. Nerfing sucks, buffing rocks! Make everything OP! Wrong forum. This is SC2.
Well, we're talking about balancing and I was just saying that if and only if buffing the Raven would really balance the game, then there's no problem with that even though it would make Ravens OP, stating BW as an example that it's not bad to balance OP with OP.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
great probe transfer lolol
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On November 05 2012 20:52 NicksonReyes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:48 Vorenius wrote:On November 05 2012 20:45 NicksonReyes wrote:On November 05 2012 20:43 Vorenius wrote:On November 05 2012 20:29 Maloreon wrote:
Buff Ravens already (saying this as a Zerg). Reduce cost of HSM, make raven buildable from no tech lab imo. I'd love what that would do to the metagame. That would simply make Ravens the terran equivelant of Infestors. Balancing OP with more OP will just cause more terrible terrible damage. Balancing OP with more OP was how BW was balanced lol. Nerfing sucks, buffing rocks! Make everything OP! Wrong forum. This is SC2. Well, we're talking about balancing and I was just saying that if and only if buffing the Raven would really balance the game, then there's no problem with that even though it would make Ravens OP, stating BW as an example that it's not bad to balance OP with OP.
You have a perfectly valid point, don't let the negative nancy's get you down. Sometimes a buff is a better move toward balance than a nerf and it can often be more accurate.
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Look, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that zerg late game can't be beaten. Because there are games which shows that they can. However, a lot of things have to go right for the terran (and some mistakes from zerg). If the zerg is on top of his game, it just doesn't seem like you can make any big plays to win. And yes, games should come down to who makes less mistakes, but it just seems zergs can make slightly more mistakes once they get to the late game right now.
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whoa, creator not starting with collosus in pvt
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Can any BW followers confirm that is indeed pronounced 'byung'?
For whatever reason I thought it was pronounced 'B-B-yong'
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Norway25712 Posts
On November 05 2012 20:52 KristofferAG wrote:Bbyong v Creator
0 - 1Maps:Daybreak
Entombed ValleyTBD 05.00Bbyong spawning as the blue Terran in the 11 o'clock position. Creator spawning as the red Protoss in the 7 o'clock position. Standard gateway for Creator. Bbyong going CC first, in his main. Gas started for Creator. Barracks on the ramp, Cybernetics Core for Creator. Second Barracks finishes the wall for Bbyong. Probe scouts the double rax, but not the CC building. Nexus down on the natural for Creator, warpgate tech started. CC turned into OC before it's lifted down. Two more Barracks added on for Bbyong.
10.00
Third Nexus on the way for Creator
Bbyong tries to go for a walkaround with the Marines, avoidign the XelNaga Tower, Creator spots it with Stalkers and shows off some nice micro, taking out all the Marines without losing any Stalkers.
Two more Gates added on for Creator with a gas.
Third CC started by Bbyong.
Bbyong still rallying down marines.
Marines manage to take out two Stalkers, and Creator pulls Probes, but the Marines are cleand up.
Double Forge and Twilight Council added on for Creator.
Two gas and two bunkers up for Bbyong, third CC finishing up.
Stim started for Bbyong. First Factory on the way.
1/1 started for Creator, taking two more gas.
Three mroe Gates started for Creator.
Templar ARchives started.
Bbyong adding on another two Barracks, taking down the rocks between his natural and third.
DOuble Engineering Bay for Bbyong.
Zealot Charge started by creator.
First Starport added on, Combat Shield research started.
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bbyong lost the game by not scouting the nexus.
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On November 05 2012 20:56 Chill Penguin wrote:
Can any BW followers confirm that is indeed pronounced 'byung'?
For whatever reason I thought it was pronounced 'B-B-yong'
I think bbyong is a sound effect, encountered it in some korean shows, so yeah, not 'B-B-yong'.
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On November 05 2012 20:47 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:44 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:41 brofestor wrote:On November 05 2012 20:39 Maloreon wrote:On November 05 2012 20:37 figq wrote:
I only wonder that people choose *this* game to make comparisons between late game armies. In this game zerg won significant economic advantage much earlier before late game, and just pressed it methodically. EXACTLY. And yet despite how close it was with MVP being miles behind, no Terrans are doing this style correctly: 1. BFH to get a lead. 2. FULL TURTLE with tanks and turrets, PF's, unbreakable. 3. Mass Thor, Viking, Raven, Ghost combo. 4. SMASH! with you and your 3 measly bases? zerg would have all the other bases and his creep would spread to your doorstep, and he can remax his army many times over and yeah MVP shld have 11/11 at least once. why he didnt do that. You can easily turtle 4-5 base and get any units you want watch Hack vs. Zerg from up/downs. Anyway, its the same thing that Zerg do right now turtle to make perfect army that one shots all other armies. Economy is important but even if Zerg has the whole map if you craft the right army you can and will win. I believe! Didn't Hack lose to both zergs in his U&D group (Hyun and B4)?
All TvZ results of this season are here http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?page=1&searchType=3&race=T&vsrace=Z&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27067&gamever=0&mapid=0&Go=15
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On November 05 2012 20:56 vthree wrote:
Look, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that zerg late game can't be beaten. Because there are games which shows that they can. However, a lot of things have to go right for the terran (and some mistakes from zerg). If the zerg is on top of his game, it just doesn't seem like you can make any big plays to win. And yes, games should come down to who makes less mistakes, but it just seems zergs can make slightly more mistakes once they get to the late game right now.
Really, cause it sure feels to me in every LR thread now like the negative posters are making it sound like Zerg can't lose ever (while they still do lose regularly in late game). I honestly could care less about perfect balance, I just want to see some players get brave and do more endgame play. The metagame past 20 minutes is really underdeveloped and I want to see more of it.
I agree Infestor could probably use a slight nerf, and then buff some Tier 1-2 tech to make Zerg stand a chance against a couple Protoss timings... but people just call for blind infestor nerfs which would lead to some REALLY one sided ZvP's imo....
Anyway, I'm done with the balance discussions. I just want to see some good late-game Terran is all.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
creator looking MUCH better
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EPT
