Completely agree with what Vibe said right there about taking a break. I think any gamer (pro or not) who finds themselves in a rut should just completely take a break from the game and come back. You might have to "shake off the rust" at first upon return but it seems to help you get a new/different perspective on things as well as quit bad habits/start good ones.
I remember when Vibe was considered one of those mediocre players who could never win anything and would always get stomped around in the original NASL.
Wish I would be able to understand PvP better. In my games it always comes down to early aggression into mutual expanding into a race to 200/200 and finding out who got more upgrades and colossi during that.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
Well, he's probably my favorite SC2 player (as in player who first found success in SC2), but MC hasn't been doing that well lately. Maybe a few months ago that would have been more true (though he lost to Seed in GSL anyway), but the best would probably be Seed/Hero/Squirtle or something along those lines, not sure.
But yeah MC is definitely not the best toss in the world right now by a significant margin lol.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
I'm rewatching Korea WCS through Wolf/Khaldor anti-Kespa bias.. holy smokes he improved so much match to match. His muta defense against Leenock game 1 was sick.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
Well, he's probably my favorite SC2 player (as in player who first found success in SC2), but MC hasn't been doing that well lately. Maybe a few months ago that would have been more true (though he lost to Seed in GSL anyway), but the best would probably be Seed/Hero/Squirtle or something along those lines, not sure.
But yeah MC is definitely not the best toss in the world right now by a significant margin lol.
Hero and Squirtle? Squirtle is good but his best accomplishment was matched by MC in the last GSL. What exactly has Hero done in the last...year?
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Squirtle, Seed, Creator.
That's what people said last year, when MC won championships and no other Protoss came close. Right now, only Seed is up there, and he's out of GSL too.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
The MC vs Bischu games were just such a great example of the difference between top Korean players and foreigners. MC basically had build order disadvantages in both games and had army deficits but won because his unit control was vastly superior. I think that's the biggest difference. Koreans just have a much better understanding of how to control and position their units to maximize effectiveness. Bischu built this sick army and had a super solid build, but just couldn't control the fight.
On September 23 2012 13:10 Xeris wrote: The MC vs Bischu games were just such a great example of the difference between top Korean players and foreigners. MC basically had build order disadvantages in both games and had army deficits but won because his unit control was vastly superior. I think that's the biggest difference. Koreans just have a much better understanding of how to control and position their units to maximize effectiveness. Bischu built this sick army and had a super solid build, but just couldn't control the fight.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Squirtle, Seed, Creator.
That's what people said last year, when MC won championships and no other Protoss came close. Right now, only Seed is up there, and he's out of GSL too.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
As much as I agree with MC being the best overall P, you're supporting someone who just won a PvP with better skill and decision making--after taking later expansions both games, no less.
On September 23 2012 13:10 Xeris wrote: The MC vs Bischu games were just such a great example of the difference between top Korean players and foreigners. MC basically had build order disadvantages in both games and had army deficits but won because his unit control was vastly superior. I think that's the biggest difference. Koreans just have a much better understanding of how to control and position their units to maximize effectiveness. Bischu built this sick army and had a super solid build, but just couldn't control the fight.
Great display by MC :D!
tell that to stephano
Stephano is an obvious exception. There are definitely a few non Korean players who have the same precision, Stephano being one of them. But outside of 3-4 people, Koreans have significantly better control D:
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. That does not make him the best Protoss player now.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. The sheer volume of attempts dilutes all those accomplishments.
and who's fault was it that seed, creator and squirtle chose not to show up at the events that mc showed up to. if they did and won it, i might consider them above mc...but as it stands now, mc is the best protoss in the world. best player in the world if you add in the fact that he won a shit ton of cash
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. The sheer volume of attempts dilutes all those accomplishments.
and who's fault was it that seed, creator and squirtle chose not to show up at the events that mc showed up to. if they did and won it, i might consider them above mc...but as it stands now, mc is the best protoss in the world. best player in the world if you add in the fact that he won a shit ton of cash
Because Seed, Creator, and Squirtle don't get a choice in the matter. If their team doesn't want to send them, they don't get to go. Meanwhile MC is a one-man team and it's easy for SK to send him anywhere.
If OSL paid nothing Flash would still be the best player of his generation. So money is irrelevant in this conversation.
MC is not even close to being the best player in the world right now.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. The sheer volume of attempts dilutes all those accomplishments.
and who's fault was it that seed, creator and squirtle chose not to show up at the events that mc showed up to. if they did and won it, i might consider them above mc...but as it stands now, mc is the best protoss in the world. best player in the world if you add in the fact that he won a shit ton of cash
Because Seed, Creator, and Squirtle don't get a choice in the matter. If their team doesn't want to send them, they don't get to go. Meanwhile MC is a one-man team and it's easy for SK to send him anywhere.
If OSL paid nothing Flash would still be the best player of his generation. So money is irrelevant in this conversation.
MC is not even close to being the best player in the world right now.
yea, mc makes results, squirtle creator and seed did not make any results, which is why their teams don't send them anywhere unless the league is willing to pay. yea, they have results now... but never had them before.
anyway, squirtle, creator and seed are PatchTosses anyway. they suddenly came out and won stuff after the observer patch.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. The sheer volume of attempts dilutes all those accomplishments.
and who's fault was it that seed, creator and squirtle chose not to show up at the events that mc showed up to. if they did and won it, i might consider them above mc...but as it stands now, mc is the best protoss in the world. best player in the world if you add in the fact that he won a shit ton of cash
Because Seed, Creator, and Squirtle don't get a choice in the matter. If their team doesn't want to send them, they don't get to go. Meanwhile MC is a one-man team and it's easy for SK to send him anywhere.
If OSL paid nothing Flash would still be the best player of his generation. So money is irrelevant in this conversation.
MC is not even close to being the best player in the world right now.
yea, mc makes results, squirtle creator and seed did not make any results, which is why their teams don't send them anywhere unless the league is willing to pay. yea, they have results now... but never had them before.
yea, mc makes results, squirtle creator and seed did not make any results, which is why their teams don't send them anywhere unless the league is willing to pay. yea, they have results now... but never had them before.
You cannot say someone is the best player by pointing out that they were the best player.
The teams pay, the league doesn't.
On September 23 2012 13:31 from_under wrote:anyway, squirtle, creator and seed are PatchTosses anyway. they suddenly came out and won stuff after the observer patch.
Ah, I congratulate you for your cunning traps. You are indeed a clever and resourceful troll.
On September 23 2012 13:10 Xeris wrote: The MC vs Bischu games were just such a great example of the difference between top Korean players and foreigners. MC basically had build order disadvantages in both games and had army deficits but won because his unit control was vastly superior. I think that's the biggest difference. Koreans just have a much better understanding of how to control and position their units to maximize effectiveness. Bischu built this sick army and had a super solid build, but just couldn't control the fight.
Great display by MC :D!
tell that to stephano
Stephano is an obvious exception. There are definitely a few non Korean players who have the same precision, Stephano being one of them. But outside of 3-4 people, Koreans have significantly better control D:
MC is one of the top few koreans. Bischu is good but he isn't one of the top foreigners. This game doesn't show 'the difference' between foreigners and koreans. All it shows is why MC is better than Bischu.
Lol MC's foreign showings is actually a disadvantage. Last season he just had hours to get to the studio before landing from his flight and still got out of the group of death. People say "he's figured out" due to him playing so much whereas people like MVP and Nestea stuck in Korea. Now, he's still at the top. People only hate on him coz they cant handle his swag.
MC won games before any protoss buffs. These "new" protosses actually got builds from MC.
On September 23 2012 13:42 power-overwhelming wrote: Lol MC's foreign showings is actually a disadvantage. Last season he just had hours to get to the studio before landing from his flight and still got out of the group of death. People say "he's figured out" due to him playing so much whereas people like MVP and Nestea stuck in Korea. Now, he's still at the top. People only hate on him coz they cant handle his swag.
MC won games before any protoss buffs. These "new" protosses actually got builds from MC.
The stupidest part about both of the MC trolls in this thread is that they're assuming people are hating on MC because they have an opinion that he isn't the best (if there is even a best, which there arguably isn't really anyway).
Clearly if a player isn't one of the 3 in the 'best protoss', 'best terran' or 'best zerg' groups then you have to hate their guts.
On September 23 2012 12:50 BongChambers wrote: MC is literally the best Protoss in the world right now without a doubt.
No, not even close.
Amuse me, name 3 Toss players better then him. Which would make him 4th.
Right now?
Creator, Squirtle, Seed.
Seed and Squirtle are in GSL Code S Ro16, MC isn't. All three of them did significantly better than him at WCS (albeit, he forfeited his loser bracket spot), and have collectively innovated the race to a much greater degree recently. Also Seed beat MC straight up in the most recent GSL final. Not to mention that he lost to SlayerS_Dark yesterday in the GSTL convincingly.
He's certainly not a bad player or anything though. It's just a bit much to say he's unequivocally the best protoss right now.
v v v Ha-ha, high five!
mc has 2 gsl and a lot of other tournament wins... creator has 2 wins, none gsl, squirtle only won 2nd place in his tournaments, and seed has only one gsl, which was in a random as fuck match up where skill doesn't matter, only luck and build order losses.
mc is better than all of those three, you kids are just in denial and randomly hate on players with success.
MC's last GSL win was a year and a half ago.
MC shows up to the most foreign tournaments, it only makes sense that he would win the most foreign tournaments. The sheer volume of attempts dilutes all those accomplishments.
and who's fault was it that seed, creator and squirtle chose not to show up at the events that mc showed up to. if they did and won it, i might consider them above mc...but as it stands now, mc is the best protoss in the world. best player in the world if you add in the fact that he won a shit ton of cash
Because Seed, Creator, and Squirtle don't get a choice in the matter. If their team doesn't want to send them, they don't get to go. Meanwhile MC is a one-man team and it's easy for SK to send him anywhere.
If OSL paid nothing Flash would still be the best player of his generation. So money is irrelevant in this conversation.
MC is not even close to being the best player in the world right now.
yea, mc makes results, squirtle creator and seed did not make any results, which is why their teams don't send them anywhere unless the league is willing to pay. yea, they have results now... but never had them before.
anyway, squirtle, creator and seed are PatchTosses anyway. they suddenly came out and won stuff after the observer patch.
MC isn't the best Protoss RIGHT NOW, but just the most successful one thus far. That, I think, is the simplest way to put it. Was the best player once before, but not one atm.
I don't think MC is the quite the best protoss at the moment, but I'd say he's still up there at the very top. Creator might be the best protoss, but he failed to get through up/downs....
EPT
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