EPTand the stupid graphics. i know that there are some people that like them, but honestly, most of the times you can not recognize the players and i think it just looks bad.
TSL4 Grand Finals - Page 51
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
and the stupid graphics. i know that there are some people that like them, but honestly, most of the times you can not recognize the players and i think it just looks bad. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On September 09 2012 17:44 graNite wrote: I didnt watch any games because of the stupid format... only a few games a week, i cant see the players reaction, no interviews... there are just too many other tournaments which do it much better! and the stupid graphics. i know that there are some people that like them, but honestly, most of the times you can not recognize the players and i think it just looks bad. There have been winners interviews from every single series and every qualifier. The format is designed to replicate the starleague format of a long single elimination bracket designed for hype periods and long, memorable series. | ||
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ravemir
Portugal595 Posts
On September 09 2012 18:05 Ruscour wrote: There have been winners interviews from every single series and every qualifier. The format is designed to replicate the starleague format of a long single elimination bracket designed for hype periods and long, memorable series. But you have to admit that not having a live finals did hurt a bit, right? I can still feel the stress of lagging in that final Naniwa game... | ||
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Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
On September 09 2012 08:21 Doubting wrote: in the end it is the games and the players that bring the audience which is out of TL's control. If more fans watched for Talent then this would have more views the the final last year. Talent wise it doesn't get much better then Life vs Creator. Imagine a Stephano vs Taeja final or Mvp vs HerO. The production was great The Casters were top notch The music was fantastic TL did a great job If people don't want to watch lesser known Koreans play Good games then that is their fault. TSL4 was alright, but nothing to write home about. By now most tournaments know the kind of production values people expect and TSL delivered. The only salient point was having their own song, which in my opinion was a bit cheesy and silly, but I'll give them credit for it. The casters were from the same group of casters everyone has come to expect from a premier tournament, so again, nothing extraordinary about them. Chill is the only notable addition to the cast of casters during a TSL and in my opinion we didn't see (hear?) enough of him this time around. And not all the matches were that great. There were lots of people getting rolled over in pretty one-sided matches throughout the tournament, and that doesn't tend to bring out the best people have to offer in terms of skill. Overall the whole thing felt a bit meh.  | ||
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Gr33d
Germany423 Posts
Original feedback post: I don't know if one of the people responsible for this will read this and maybe they even have numbers that prove the opposite, but in my opinion the TSL is disappointing. Its sad to say this because I realy appreciate all the effort the team puts into it but I guess negative feedback will help aswell. The TSL tournaments were always a special event for me, simply because they were one of the things that got me interested into SC esports, along with the GOM classics. They had many interesting matches, good casters, a time schedule that poses nearly no problems for europeans and a lot of famous players. In addition there always was much emotion in the games, who does not remember stuff like the Idra / Nony games in TSL 2? In TSL 4 however, maybe because of the qualification process, a lot of players are (and I mean this not in a disrespectfull way) kinda unknown koreans or other random players. If you compare the list to the TSL3 participants there is realy a big big difference. Everytime I look the numbers of viewers on the stream are kinda disappointing (or just look at the replies in the LR threads here on TL) and since Ro16 I can pretty much just watch GSL instead, its nearly the same and its live. Yes, its the players fault if they can't win against all the invited koreans but I want good games, emotion and (a little atleast) drama when old rivals meet each other. You can't help with the games, but the other things could get changed. Kinda the same problem the MLG has, its just not the same anymore. | ||
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fortheGG
United Kingdom1002 Posts
for me the qualifiers were more exciting than the actual event | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
I didn't have the joy of watching TSL 2 while it was live, I didn't really know about TL other then I stole strats from here to play on Bnet cause I didn't use ICCup. But I watched all the vods when TSL3 had the first video with the 3 drawings from Glider. TSL2 was pure awesome for all the story and being the best of the best for the Foreigner community. Almost all the top16 players were playing SC2 at some point I have been with TL since 2010 and Been active since beta. So I already knew most of the players and Love watching BW so TSL 2 was awesome. ok TSL3 imo the best starcraft 2 tournament yet. 2nd only to mlg dallas 2010 which had all my favorite players doing well and Nazgul sniping idra  . OK so TSL3 had those amazing portraits from glider for every single player! all the koreans that were inviting were huge names at the time and had a lot of story to bring with them to the tournament. Also The other TL players that were living in Korea, were considered under the Korean invites because they lived over there at the time.The music was all instrumental and built major hype before each match. Also the community was hyping TSL3 so much that you couldn't sign in without 15 new posts and 30+ new cheerfuls about everyone favorite player. Also we had something we hadn't seen much or ever. Foreigners were beating the Koreans, Adelscott using his unit Mass gateway style to crush MVP and Goody beating Nestea. and Boxer got pretty far in the tournament as well and everyone loves Boxer for the most part. Big Drama came up with Koreans and Lag and that thread alone had almost double the posts that TSL4 grand finals had. Then we had MC vs Thorzain, so much hype everyone saw how dominate Thorzain had been hell Blizzard nerfed Thors after his matches against Tyler. The finals were PvT not everyone favorite ZvT but still we got to see the cool hype videos when Naniwa and Thorzain at TLHQ. So many dramatic moments during the finals also "chill get out" would become famous. So why Wasn't TSL4 exciting, Well the theme while unique didn't bring that Hype feeling like Glider's portraits. Even though TSL3 had quite a bit of Koreans it was still a foreigner centered event with all the qualifiers being NA or EU and Koreans getting invites. Now I don't know if TSL4 would have done better if they invited people like Squritle, MKP, DRG, or any of the other super popular Koreans. I loved TSL for having that Foreigner centrism that no other tournaments really have anymore. WCS is truly the only exception. Sure it takes away from the best players which are of course Koreans and Seeing the best quality games is important, but having that prestige of being the best Foreigner or non- Korean has a lot of meaning in our community. TSL was the best play to show that. I really hope next years WCS has it's own dates and isn't sharing the spotlight with any other tournaments while it's cheaper for blizzard to do it this way it really takes away from the tournament. I wonder how TL staff will look at TSL4 and what direction they will go with involving TSL5. Either way the production quality was still top notch. Chill should have casted finals with day[9] Love chills casting. Either sorry for long winded rant that about a topic that everyone already knows everything about. Just some of the arguments in the last couple of pages made me want to write something stupidly long. TL:DR= TSL 1,2,3 Better hype and best tournament to determine best Foreigner TSL4 Lacked the hype and Drama, which lead to the decrease in viewers. | ||
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Youtakenocandle
543 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On September 09 2012 18:41 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: For all the Korean, Non-Korean thing and the popularity and all that jazz, Here is my opinion as to why I didn't like this TSL as much I did watch the finals I enjoyed a couple games but some of the other were kind of bad and some were just straight up terrible. (last game in the series) I didn't have the joy of watching TSL 2 while it was live, I didn't really know about TL other then I stole strats from here to play on Bnet cause I didn't use ICCup. But I watched all the vods when TSL3 had the first video with the 3 drawings from Glider. TSL2 was pure awesome for all the story and being the best of the best for the Foreigner community. Almost all the top16 players were playing SC2 at some point I have been with TL since 2010 and Been active since beta. So I already knew most of the players and Love watching BW so TSL 2 was awesome. ok TSL3 imo the best starcraft 2 tournament yet. 2nd only to mlg dallas 2010 which had all my favorite players doing well and Nazgul sniping idra . OK so TSL3 had those amazing portraits from glider for every single player! all the koreans that were inviting were huge names at the time and had a lot of story to bring with them to the tournament. Also The other TL players that were living in Korea, were considered under the Korean invites because they lived over there at the time.The music was all instrumental and built major hype before each match. Also the community was hyping TSL3 so much that you couldn't sign in without 15 new posts and 30+ new cheerfuls about everyone favorite player. Also we had something we hadn't seen much or ever. Foreigners were beating the Koreans, Adelscott using his unit Mass gateway style to crush MVP and Goody beating Nestea. and Boxer got pretty far in the tournament as well and everyone loves Boxer for the most part. Big Drama came up with Koreans and Lag and that thread alone had almost double the posts that TSL4 grand finals had. Then we had MC vs Thorzain, so much hype everyone saw how dominate Thorzain had been hell Blizzard nerfed Thors after his matches against Tyler. The finals were PvT not everyone favorite ZvT but still we got to see the cool hype videos when Naniwa and Thorzain at TLHQ. So many dramatic moments during the finals also "chill get out" would become famous. So why Wasn't TSL4 exciting, Well the theme while unique didn't bring that Hype feeling like Glider's portraits. Even though TSL3 had quite a bit of Koreans it was still a foreigner centered event with all the qualifiers being NA or EU and Koreans getting invites. Now I don't know if TSL4 would have done better if they invited people like Squritle, MKP, DRG, or any of the other super popular Koreans. I loved TSL for having that Foreigner centrism that no other tournaments really have anymore. WCS is truly the only exception. Sure it takes away from the best players which are of course Koreans and Seeing the best quality games is important, but having that prestige of being the best Foreigner or non- Korean has a lot of meaning in our community. TSL was the best play to show that. I really hope next years WCS has it's own dates and isn't sharing the spotlight with any other tournaments while it's cheaper for blizzard to do it this way it really takes away from the tournament. I wonder how TL staff will look at TSL4 and what direction they will go with involving TSL5. Either way the production quality was still top notch. Chill should have casted finals with day[9] Love chills casting. Either sorry for long winded rant that about a topic that everyone already knows everything about. Just some of the arguments in the last couple of pages made me want to write something stupidly long. TL:DR= TSL 1,2,3 Better hype and best tournament to determine best Foreigner TSL4 Lacked the hype and Drama, which lead to the decrease in viewers. The question has to be, do you want a competetive tournament or a show event like WWF. If you want a show, then invite who you want and crown the winner you want with the storyline you like. But if you look at it competetively, TSL4 did everything right. Only top3 from last tournament invited, rest qualified. With a fair amount of slots divided between NA/EU and korea. The problem is: the non-koreans just played outright poorly here. JonnyRecco, Vortix and maybe Ret were exceptions, but the rest was just a complete failure. We had some of the very best players in the world competing in here with Squirtle, Taeja, Creator, Curious. But the non-koreans here were just nowhere near the skill level in this tournament. I want esports to be a competetive sport and not a stupid show like Wrestling were a fake competition is shown to amuse the fans! | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On September 09 2012 19:47 TeeTS wrote: The question has to be, do you want a competetive tournament or a show event like WWF. If you want a show, then invite who you want and crown the winner you want with the storyline you like. But if you look at it competetively, TSL4 did everything right. Only top3 from last tournament invited, rest qualified. With a fair amount of slots divided between NA/EU and korea. The problem is: the non-koreans just played outright poorly here. JonnyRecco, Vortix and maybe Ret were exceptions, but the rest was just a complete failure. We had some of the very best players in the world competing in here with Squirtle, Taeja, Creator, Curious. But the non-koreans here were just nowhere near the skill level in this tournament. I want esports to be a competetive sport and not a stupid show like Wrestling were a fake competition is shown to amuse the fans! That actually was the problem... It was no different than MLG, DH, GSL we had all the same people we see dominating over and over. There is no illusion that Koreans are just better at starcraft they train harder have better environment for playing and practice with all highly skilled people. So seeing an event like the TSL2 makes is more special sure you can say I just want to see the best play. Well the best plays can be seen every day almost any hour you want. We have a top player streaming or playing at an event. I didn't deny any of that in my post. But is that the right route for TSL? do you think there should be no foreigner only events that are considered legitimate because they don't have the absolute best players in them? Also what I saw today was poor play in both matches. Add that to not really caring about the players. Where were all the hype videos of them playing around at TLHQ things that like make the difference for a lot of people. If you want a strong viewer base you have to have those "wrestling" matches are they fake hell no they are just not the best of the best in the scene at the moment. Do they bring something far more valuable to the scene as a whole? Yes I think so, I want to see SC thrive for 10+ years and right now easier and imo lamer games are getting the spotlight because it shows that people like to root for their team and their players. We will always have a group of dedicated starcraft players and hopefully the scene will be revitalized by HOTS. For TSL4 it wasn't any different then watching an MLG/DH/IEM we have foreigners get completely owned but Major. I don't know maybe I am just crazy for thinking that TSL was this special event that really brought what I love about Starcraft together. I know it's something odd but how many Cheerfuls were made? Did we more than 1 crazy good series? I haven't seen any of the non Protoss games. did any Terrans gg after cancelling a command center from probe harass? Maybe TSL2/3 was just to damn perfect. | ||
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CrazyBirdman
Germany3509 Posts
f you have an online league today I think the format needs to be something special. NASL for example is doing exactly that which makes it entertaining to follow even if I am not able to catch the games. | ||
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catplanetcatplanet
3836 Posts
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Grubby
Netherlands318 Posts
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Agnosthar
631 Posts
On September 09 2012 18:26 Serek wrote: TSL4 was alright, but nothing to write home about. By now most tournaments know the kind of production values people expect and TSL delivered. The only salient point was having their own song, which in my opinion was a bit cheesy and silly, but I'll give them credit for it. The casters were from the same group of casters everyone has come to expect from a premier tournament, so again, nothing extraordinary about them. Chill is the only notable addition to the cast of casters during a TSL and in my opinion we didn't see (hear?) enough of him this time around. And not all the matches were that great. There were lots of people getting rolled over in pretty one-sided matches throughout the tournament, and that doesn't tend to bring out the best people have to offer in terms of skill. Overall the whole thing felt a bit meh. Agreed, last TSL I watched almost every minute. This TSL I didn't watch more than 1 game, simply because I did not care about any of the players. TSL 4 was positioned into a relative no mans land. If I want to watch only the best, then I'll be watching GSL. If I want to be entertained and watch my favorite players then I can watch MLG, IPL etc. TSL sacrificed viewership and entertainment to adhere to its stance on tournament integrity, making everyone have to qualify. This resulted in a lot of players with no personalities making up 95% of the tournament. I admit though, that one of the coolest things about TSL 3 was the emergence of the relatively unknown ThorZain. Maybe in the future we can see half invite half qualifying? | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
On September 09 2012 21:18 Grubby wrote: I feel like the player "portraits", if you can call them that, really de-personalized every player. Everyone either has white or red eyes... no real facial features. No wonder it felt more anonymous and hard to root. Then all the other points I mentioned on my twitter and the points everyone else mentioned. Foreigners' own performances to mention just one. I agree, I am unable to recognize any of the players based on their pictures. With TSL3 it was easy to recognize people, now I cannot tell any of the koreans apart, and even the foreigners is a challenge. | ||
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Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
On September 09 2012 21:18 Grubby wrote: I feel like the player "portraits", if you can call them that, really de-personalized every player. Everyone either has white or red eyes... no real facial features. No wonder it felt more anonymous and hard to root. Then all the other points I mentioned on my twitter and the points everyone else mentioned. Foreigners' own performances to mention just one. Indeed, the portraits from TSL3 were really quite something. I also think the qualifiers discouraged participation of some pros who couldn't qualify in their first try, and didn't have the time to rack up enough points to qualify that way. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 09 2012 21:18 Grubby wrote: I feel like the player "portraits", if you can call them that, really de-personalized every player. Everyone either has white or red eyes... no real facial features. No wonder it felt more anonymous and hard to root. Then all the other points I mentioned on my twitter and the points everyone else mentioned. Foreigners' own performances to mention just one. ^ This is what you call good constructive feedback. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Zeroxk
Norway1244 Posts
On September 09 2012 16:20 shawster wrote: 1. olympics, people root for their country 2. the reason why foreigners are most foreigner's "team" is because they communicate with the community to a certain degree and also koreans are so strong that it's like rooting for the underdog. everyone loves that 1. There were no Canadians in TSL4, didn't stop you from watching did it? 2. Where is the bar on "communcation"? Most of the Koreans stream and chat with their viewers and reply to tweets, you don't expect them to regularily post on TL do you? | ||
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