|
at least no pictures of memes, i'm so grateful for that
|
On August 30 2012 02:44 tedster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:42 sitromit wrote:
I don't know why everyone's so sruprised about the results. They were to be expected. MKP hasn't been looking good lately, he didn't do well at MLG, lost a bunch of games to foreigners. MVP won a European tournament with a weak line-up, but his TvP has always been his weakest matchup.
Meanwhile Rain looked very solid in the WCS, especially in his ability to play turtle style Protoss.
This really doesn't say much about Kespa vs Esf. Frankly, the selective arguing of the BW fans is a little irritating. When DRG roflstomps the most recent BW champion, it's glossed over with "he didn't have time to practice, he could have won if he hadn't missed that forcefield" etc. But when a Kespa guy wins, "OMG the elephants are crushing the SC2 gods".
The only dominant win from the Kespa guys was really Fantasy over Nestea, and we all know how Nestea has been looking for a really really long time now. He will soon retire, and probably become a coach, mark my words.
I feel bad for the poor Esf players. If they win, well, they were supposed to win. If they lose, "OMG they got stomped, LMAO. Elephants are on a rampage!!!" Kespa players should not be beating SC2 pros with years of experience. It shouldn't be happening, at all, and not around a 50% win ratio like it has been lately. At least, not if the SC2 pros are actually going to have a chance of holding on to the top.
Um, why does it matter if they have years of experience? All that matters is the current metagame and mechanics, if Kespa players are able to execute build orders and understand their reasoning with good mechanics then why would it matter if some GoM players played back when ultralisks were bugged, we had Khydarian amulet, and ghosts singlehandedly destroyed everything? That past is irrelevant to the game today.
|
Well that lr was unreadable. I get it, you don't like moletrap fucking mute it then, you guys are so spoiled. Guess I'll have to watch these live if I want to know anything about the game
|
On August 30 2012 04:01 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I see interesting parallels between KESPA and stephano.
It seems to be like in physics, there always has to be some sort of equilibrium - if there is matter, antimatter has to be there as well:
stephano was one of the most hyped players ever, in fact his hype bandwagon was increasing unbelievably fast - and guess what increased at the same pace? Yes, the hater-bandwagon. You could have founded some sort of ANTI-stephano fanclub on this website. stephano could have gone for a 30-game winstreak - if he lost the 31st game people would go "OMFG OVERRATED". this had been lasting for like a year until the last hater finally shut up
the kespa players are hyped in a similar fashion and the amount of haters is already incredibly high. kespa players are performing really well and even had some 10game-winstreak in WCS. but still every time they lose a single game, you can see the haters coming out of their hole and go crazy about how this elephant blahblah is the wrongest theory of all times
Hey man. I know you're jumping in. You realize that KeSPA players had the big win today right? And I am STILL saying the elephant is wrong? Why? Because it didn't say ANY kespa player can win big in sc2 (that was proven before the post was written as MVP/NESTEA/MC are all ex -Kespa even if they weren't good). It said that the big time bw champions are gonna crush.
And they haven't yet.
So don't know exactly what you're talking about.
|
On August 30 2012 03:18 jinorazi wrote:
the first sc2 osl is just now starting, gsl4 hasnt even started, why are people saying elephant article is completely wrong when it still hasnt had the chance to happen yet? osl is a small pool of players and the qualifiers were too early imo. gsl4 will be a better standard to go by.
I'm not even sure GSL4 will be a better standard. Half the Kespa teams are still playing BW in PL and the other half are on vacation right now. Once SPL is over and all teams are back in their houses training, I'd put 3 months after that to when I expect domination, so basically when the new year starts.
|
|
|
On August 30 2012 04:23 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 03:18 jinorazi wrote:
the first sc2 osl is just now starting, gsl4 hasnt even started, why are people saying elephant article is completely wrong when it still hasnt had the chance to happen yet? osl is a small pool of players and the qualifiers were too early imo. gsl4 will be a better standard to go by. I'm not even sure GSL4 will be a better standard. Half the Kespa teams are still playing BW in PL and the other half are on vacation right now. Once SPL is over and all teams are back in their houses training, I'd put 3 months after that to when I expect domination, so basically when the new year starts.
i meant in comparison. next pl is long time away, 2-3 more months or so? 
|
On August 30 2012 03:16 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:59 Kal_rA wrote:On August 30 2012 02:44 tedster wrote:On August 30 2012 02:42 sitromit wrote:
I don't know why everyone's so sruprised about the results. They were to be expected. MKP hasn't been looking good lately, he didn't do well at MLG, lost a bunch of games to foreigners. MVP won a European tournament with a weak line-up, but his TvP has always been his weakest matchup.
Meanwhile Rain looked very solid in the WCS, especially in his ability to play turtle style Protoss.
This really doesn't say much about Kespa vs Esf. Frankly, the selective arguing of the BW fans is a little irritating. When DRG roflstomps the most recent BW champion, it's glossed over with "he didn't have time to practice, he could have won if he hadn't missed that forcefield" etc. But when a Kespa guy wins, "OMG the elephants are crushing the SC2 gods".
The only dominant win from the Kespa guys was really Fantasy over Nestea, and we all know how Nestea has been looking for a really really long time now. He will soon retire, and probably become a coach, mark my words.
I feel bad for the poor Esf players. If they win, well, they were supposed to win. If they lose, "OMG they got stomped, LMAO. Elephants are on a rampage!!!" Kespa players should not be beating SC2 pros with years of experience. It shouldn't be happening, at all, and not around a 50% win ratio like it has been lately. At least, not if the SC2 pros are actually going to have a chance of holding on to the top. Also to sitromit's comment on DRG beating Jangbi: lollllll. The guy just won the most and the last (giving it even more importance) bw championship. This was literally only four weeks ago. He said he was practicing only BW. And that to a lot. On the other hand Fying and Rain have been going hard on SC2 since last season's proleague ended. Even in interviews before the games Jangbi said hes not ready to play at GSL level. On the other hand, the guys whove been practicing for proleague sc2 seemed decently confident in their sc2 skills in their interviews. My point is many Kespa players are holding their own agaisnt the best of the best. Even Best coulda done okay vs mc if he controlled his immortals a little. Time will tell forsure but the trends are looking goooooood for my kespa boys  You say his problem was control on his immortals? And for some reason you expect me to believe in the KeSPA advantage when an ESF guy has better control? Isn't control game independent?Now this is not to say that KeSPA advantage doesn't exist, but don't say something about control. If MC has better control, than this whole bw thing has superior control is simultaneously being melted. EDIT: which ofc I don't think you are trying to say. So dont say it
Are you trolling now? The units don't handle even remotely similar. Difference in control is arguably one of the biggest differences between the two games.
On August 30 2012 04:18 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 04:01 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I see interesting parallels between KESPA and stephano.
It seems to be like in physics, there always has to be some sort of equilibrium - if there is matter, antimatter has to be there as well:
stephano was one of the most hyped players ever, in fact his hype bandwagon was increasing unbelievably fast - and guess what increased at the same pace? Yes, the hater-bandwagon. You could have founded some sort of ANTI-stephano fanclub on this website. stephano could have gone for a 30-game winstreak - if he lost the 31st game people would go "OMFG OVERRATED". this had been lasting for like a year until the last hater finally shut up
the kespa players are hyped in a similar fashion and the amount of haters is already incredibly high. kespa players are performing really well and even had some 10game-winstreak in WCS. but still every time they lose a single game, you can see the haters coming out of their hole and go crazy about how this elephant blahblah is the wrongest theory of all times Hey man. I know you're jumping in. You realize that KeSPA players had the big win today right? And I am STILL saying the elephant is wrong? Why? Because it didn't say ANY kespa player can win big in sc2 (that was proven before the post was written as MVP/NESTEA/MC are all ex -Kespa even if they weren't good). It said that the big time bw champions are gonna crush. And they haven't yet. So don't know exactly what you're talking about.
Ehhh probably not trolling since this post is pretty damn accurate.
|
|
|
On August 30 2012 04:30 sOda~ wrote:
wait these are bo1? lol
all group stage of osl have been bo1 afaik
|
On August 30 2012 02:33 hunts wrote:
If by shaming players you mean winning a few games in the loser's bracket of WCS, sure I suppose you can call it that. If you call it winning BO1s, then sure, though TBH BO1s don't mean anything. But no I don't see this continuing, I think once the ESF (Not ESL BTW) stop being so nervous playing the kespa players they'll go back to owning the kespa players like they should've been from the start.
"like they should from the start"
HAHA! Now its self-evident its a butthurt XD
|
On August 30 2012 02:33 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:23 tedster wrote:On August 30 2012 02:10 hunts wrote:On August 30 2012 02:02 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy. All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better. The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened. Actually the elephant article was even more stupid than that. It Was about how Kespa had 300+ Bw players that at any moment could go to SC2 and within a couple months dominate it. That has definitely not happened and the kespa guys have been playing SC2 for multiple months now. But being TL is so BW biased I can see how that parts ignored and is more of "ok ok give them a few more months and THEN they'll dominate!.... in Bo1 format" I'm sorry but in that couple of months they have been shaming players who have played the game for 2 years. And they are shaming them by having vastly superior mechanics and poise which is resulting in "MVP sure played sloppy today" or "MKP made some terrible decisions and mistakes" which, if you have followed BW much, is a pretty clear sign that one player was vastly out-multitasking the other. KESPA players are multitasking ESL players into the ground, and without a massive change in the practice structure/schedules for these players, this is going to get worse as KESPA players actually learn the game and the units and the maps (which they still know jack-shit-all about comparably). The problem is that most current players do the following: 1. Grind games/stream 2. Travel around and play in events 3. Practice less overall and with fewer practice partners than the KESPA players These 3 things mean that ESL players are not really training so much as scrimmaging and competing. As anyone who has played a sport knows, drills are what make a player better, not scrims, and drills require a specific coaching staff, practice partners, and training regimen to run - something very few non-KESPA teams are structured to do. Players constantly changing teams only makes this worse. If by shaming players you mean winning a few games in the loser's bracket of WCS, sure I suppose you can call it that. If you call it winning BO1s, then sure, though TBH BO1s don't mean anything. But no I don't see this continuing, I think once the ESF (Not ESL BTW) stop being so nervous playing the kespa players they'll go back to owning the kespa players like they should've been from the start. Also if you haven't noticed MVP has been having pretty bad wrist problems for quite a while now.
They actuall won most of the Kespa vs GSL games. Not a few but most. And Bo1s might not mean that player X is better than player Y, but if Kespa consistently brings home the Bo1s then they do mean something.
I have said it before but I think the reason why these new kids are so hasty on saying the Elephant article was wrong or that Kespa are not dominating. Or that it is the Kespa guys who actually have the advantage (oh, how quickly people become irrational) is because Kespa is in fact currently doing better than ESF. And they know that they're only going to get better. I sense fear.
|
Don't get people complaining about moletrap, he did a really good job solocasting in my opinion, it's not that easy to do
Most impressive performance to me was by Flying, Flash seemed good but I'd say that that was mainly because of his insane build
|
Vatican City State431 Posts
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units.
|
On August 30 2012 04:35 Shikyo wrote:
Don't get people complaining about moletrap, he did a really good job solocasting in my opinion, it's not that easy to do
Yeah man... Watching him cast kespa reminds me of good ol bw days LOVE when he called out MPK for his 'Fantasy GG Timing' hahaha
|
When is the next rounds played? Been trying to find a schedule on Liqiupedia and everything but it is hopeless! :/
|
I think the point should be made that the kespa players aren't necessarily better, but that P is OP
|
On August 30 2012 05:20 Glorfindel! wrote:
When is the next rounds played? Been trying to find a schedule on Liqiupedia and everything but it is hopeless! :/
every tuesday and wednesday
|
Guys, Moletrap is transitioning to SC2 with the Kespa players. But where the Kespa players practice a lot, Moletrap found something shiny in a corner. "Um, check out Doas twitter l8r! lol!" d.Apollo come save us!!!
|
On August 30 2012 05:21 ohmkerg wrote:
I think the point should be made that the kespa players aren't necessarily better, but that P is OP
Well, we can call it KeSPvPA OSL, to balance it off with GOMTvT and BliZvZcon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
