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Vatican City State431 Posts
On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else?
The only retarded stuff is your stupid comment here! I only posted facts! Come out of your imaginary world and deal with the reality already.
The only antagonizing guys are people like you who thought GSL players would roll over Kespa players and this was proved totally wrong! So yeah. People like you laughed at the Kespa proleague saying that their play was very bad and look what happened: GSL champs got a reality check.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On August 30 2012 07:31 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? The only retarded stuff is your stupid comment here! I only posted facts! Come out of your imaginary world and deal with the reality already. The only antagonizing guys are people like you who thought GSL players would roll over Kespa players and this was proved totally wrong! So yeah. People like you laughed at the Kespa proleague saying that their play was very bad and look what happened: GSL champs got a reality check.
Its a little early to be saying the KESPA players are going to roll over their GSL counterparts. Yeah, the GSL players had a head start, but theyve also had to build the game from the ground up. KESPA players are not starting from scratch in the same way GSL players had to. Of course theyve caught up quickly.
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On August 30 2012 07:13 achan1058 wrote:
I don't see what's the debate here. In time, the player who will dominate the scene will not be KeSPA players. Nor will they be eSF players. They will be the kids who are sitting in PC bangs right now, watching these current heroes while growing up, and dreaming to be on the same stage as them.
pc bangs are near extinction fyi.
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On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect.
Wholey crap you are so ignorant. An education piece of work? WOW. It was an insulting article meant to crap all over everyone who enjoyed the SC2 scene. The stop trying to change the game comments simply come from people who want the lurker, reaver, corsair etc etc etc back. if you want those units then go play BW because they already exist there. It is quite a simple concept. You are an elitist inconsiderate individual and you aren't for even a split second thinking about what SC2 fans see from their side of things.
When it was announced BW was going into its final days SC2 fans were just excited to see Flash and such play SC2. That was the ONLY opinion. They were not happy that BW died but they were happy that SC2 was going to get some new exciting players that have a rich history. BW fans got upset that we were excited and lashed out. It is pretty damn simple and you are either intentionally ignoring those facts to troll or you are blind.
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On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect.
Educational piece of work, intent to teach TL sc2 fans about BW, give hope to the fans about upcoming events...
Fact of the matter is that altogether these players have literally dozens and dozens of failed qualifications and prelims between them. Given enough time, perhaps their Brood War careers would have taken off. Generously speaking, I believe this to be very unlikely. Keep this in mind when considering these career stats.
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
Was (T)ThorZaIN vs (P)oGsMC awesome? Fuck yeah! I loved watching those two play, the games were fantastic. But isn't high school football in Friday Night Lights really exciting too?
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
Wow, what a great educational, enlightening article it was, huh? I don't really see why SC2 fans are being so uptight when he was really just trying to tell us about how nice the skill level will be when BW pros switch over. Those comments should definitely be accepted with humble humility huh? I'm sure if you went to any other game and called the pros complete shit because they aren't Kespa players, they would agree and perhaps beg you to teach them more, but the SC2 fans are just so egotistical right?
Everyone knows people like MC didn't succeed in Brood War, that doesn't mean you have to write condescending posts about how you have to "educate" us about how good Kespa players are. It's not an "irrational abhorrence" to Brood War, why would anyone have anything bad to say about BW specifically?
Almost no one dislikes Brood War or claims that wasn't a great game with many talented, dedicated players that have now switched to SC2. People root against Kespa players because of people like you and the writer of the elephant article who are mindnumbingly condescending because you watch spent years of your life watching people play a video game in Korea and now think you're some kind of revered buddha of esports.
Even if you are somehow superior for having watched BW for a long time, that's pretty much the equivalent of walking up to someone reading a book and going "Are you seriously reading that inferior series? Try some Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy, they were far more talented writers than this scumbag who only has a career because of writers like him. I can't believe their books are even sold in the same store, and that people like this guy." Even if you're right, you're still a condescending elitist. You being part of the forum equivalent of a private book club doesn't make you special. Some people just want some entertainment and to root for their players. MC's my favorite player, apparently that I get offended when someone calls him complete trash not fit to lick Flash's shoes makes me "an emotional egomaniac new-kid-on-the-block."
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are people seriously up in arms over a best of one?
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On August 30 2012 08:13 hotwings wrote:
are people seriously up in arms over a best of one?
That's exactly why BO1 is the best format in group stage. Leave something for people to argue and still not too random since it is group stage.
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some taking that elephant article too seriously...felt more like a senior prank on the freshmen.
i used to hate that when i was freshmen, then i understood when i became senior.
chill out young'ins.
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On August 30 2012 08:24 jinorazi wrote:
some taking that elephant article too seriously...felt more like a senior prank on the freshmen.
i used to hate that when i was freshmen, then i understood when i became senior.
chill out young'ins.
thats true. Now i dont wanna stick to the elephant thing, but it still seems to me if you look at the kespa players, how they started out and how good some of them have become in the short time its safe to assume that we will some, not all and perhaps not even the established ones in BW, see perform quite well and go toe to toe with the GSL elite.
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I get no sound on the VODs is it just me?
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I think I had too much fun making that banner.  Also, KeSPA players holy...they are going to be so scary in a few months.
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What happened with Oz vs Last? Typhoon casualty?
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On August 30 2012 06:25 MassHysteria wrote:
Disappointing play from MVP and MKP. Didn't like a lot of their decisions and I definitely didn't like how they chose their engagements. Very subpar by them.
Plus, I would also like to say how this format of round-robin, only one game per night, really benefits the Kespa players and how they are able to focus on their practice time.
The bolded part is such garbage. The format benefits both sides equally. The better player will win and has.
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It's kind of silly to say that BW players are "stealing" or "using" 2 years worth of metagame knowledge built up by SC2 players or that BW players using the metagame to their advantage over non-BW players.
What would have happened if BW players played at 2010? The same thing would have happened - They would have used metagame knowledge from the beta.
What if they played the beta?
Then they'd screw around for a bit until someone (doesn't matter if it's a KeSPA or non-KeSPA player), finds a good build then everyone copies that build (remember when people figured out 4gating in PvP? Everyone copied it).
Anyway, it's silly to say that BW players gain an unfair advantage by using built metagame by non-KeSPA players.
You can't say that current SC2 pros don't already copy each other (everyone copying Stephano's build, everyone copying Boxer's elevator strategy, etc). How many players came up with their own strategy? And if so, so what?
Point is, developing the metagame entitles the person or group of persons (in this case, non-KeSPA players) nothing. If the metagame was older, people would be using older metagame knowledge and everyone would end up an evening playing field.
I was the one always arguing that SC2 players having 2 years of experiences means nothing. It's not important because the 1.5 (out of 2) years or so of them playing SC2 was all of them using older strategies which aren't as relevant today (case in point, see BW's TBLS where all 4 of them came out and started owning things up despite the fact there were players playing competitively much longer than them like Boxer for example).
This isn't against or for SC2 or KeSPA players - Just because they had 2 years of experience doesn't mean non-KeSPA players should feel pressure to win because 2 years experience is not relevant to one's skill (again, only maybe 5 months ir kess of playing the game actually matters. Older strategies continue to get phased out while new ones come). Likewise, KeSPA players shouldn't find it hard to adapt to SC2 because learning the current metagame doesn't take that long.
tl;dr - Building up metagame entitles the group of players nothing. If metagame was older, then everyone would be using older strategies and therefore be on almost the exact same playing field (the only major differences is some races would be favored than others as metagame does partially dictate how strong some races are). It's not like the "metagame" can be patented by a group of players (the second 4gate came out, everyone started using it in PvP; it's not like the person who came up with 4gate patented the build and stopped everyone from using it because the person was the one who came up with it).
Basically, it doesn't give anyone specially an "advantage" at all. It only gives certain races (not players or groups of players) an advantage. Plus, I'm sure most non-KeSPA players ended up copying each other throughout their SC2 career anyway (who says x or y SC2 player doesn't just copy other players strategy throughout their own career). SC2 isn't about making up strategies and then patenting them, it's about playing the game and adapting by using whatever strategies you can find to win.
Also, again this isn't against non-KeSPA players or anything (again, like I said, they shouldn't feel pressured to win nor should they be put down if they lost to a newer player just because they had 2 years of "experience" of playing SC2). What's important for those who have played the game for 2 years is that they were able to adapt to SC2's changing metagame and stay relevant to the scene. Finally, they provided us entertainment for the last 2 years.
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On August 30 2012 07:31 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? The only retarded stuff is your stupid comment here! I only posted facts! Come out of your imaginary world and deal with the reality already. The only antagonizing guys are people like you who thought GSL players would roll over Kespa players and this was proved totally wrong! So yeah. People like you laughed at the Kespa proleague saying that their play was very bad and look what happened: GSL champs got a reality check.
Some would say your unbridled fanboyism rankles as much, if not more, than those you are calling out. Don't be so zealous -- you sound like a fanatic.
GGs, enjoyed very much.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
lol so vitriolic, reading the last few pages made me sad
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On August 30 2012 07:31 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? The only retarded stuff is your stupid comment here! I only posted facts! Come out of your imaginary world and deal with the reality already. The only antagonizing guys are people like you who thought GSL players would roll over Kespa players and this was proved totally wrong! So yeah. People like you laughed at the Kespa proleague saying that their play was very bad and look what happened: GSL champs got a reality check.
You can post facts without being insulting. You seem to know a lot about me apparently though considering we never met. The level of play in the proleague was bad and wasn't worth watching if you want good games. Everyone knew they would get better. People should chill out and treat everyone with respect.
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Whoever is in charge of that link to all the vods in the OP is awesome.
I haven't watched much starcraft lately but either MKP and MVP really disappointed me or TvP is really hard right now for Terran because that was really sad to watch, especially the MKP game where he should of won and just fell apart.
MC's play was really nice
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On August 30 2012 09:32 opterown wrote:
lol so vitriolic, reading the last few pages made me sad
Hasn't been a clean Kespa v ESF LR thread yet. I can't figure out if it's getting better or worse =/
Also don't know if I prefer this to balance whine. Both of these debates are equally bad.
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EPT
