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I'm about to watch Mvp's game, just saw MKP's game. His control was terrible. Losing ghosts for free, not splitting vs Storms, basically just terrible micro.
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On August 30 2012 10:12 Scrandom wrote:
Whoever is in charge of that link to all the vods in the OP is awesome.
I haven't watched much starcraft lately but either MKP and MVP really disappointed me or TvP is really hard right now for Terran because that was really sad to watch, especially the MKP game where he should of won and just fell apart.
MC's play was really nice
MKP was ahead by quite a bit but took several bad engagements which let Rain back into the game. MVP took a risk with the early 3rd. With that early 3rd, you basically have to defend and his bunkers were not done in time plus Flying made a great play with the warp in zealots. The rest of the game was pretty much a 10 minute death animation because Flying got his 3rd, tech without having any pressure. The doom drop was basically a hail mary and it didn't work.
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never liked mc play style. never will.
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I really hope to see more builds like Flyings build developed and used in sc2. sc2 pros seems to largely go super econ builds, "safe" builds like 1rax expand, and allin builds. I love seeing builds that get up some production/tech and attacks to get an advantage while still getting econ up. I hope to see more of this from the bw guys.
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On August 30 2012 08:05 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect. Educational piece of work, intent to teach TL sc2 fans about BW, give hope to the fans about upcoming events... Show nested quote +
Fact of the matter is that altogether these players have literally dozens and dozens of failed qualifications and prelims between them. Given enough time, perhaps their Brood War careers would have taken off. Generously speaking, I believe this to be very unlikely. Keep this in mind when considering these career stats.
Show nested quote +
Was (T)ThorZaIN vs (P)oGsMC awesome? Fuck yeah! I loved watching those two play, the games were fantastic. But isn't high school football in Friday Night Lights really exciting too?
Show nested quote +
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
Wow, what a great educational, enlightening article it was, huh? I don't really see why SC2 fans are being so uptight when he was really just trying to tell us about how nice the skill level will be when BW pros switch over. Those comments should definitely be accepted with humble humility huh? I'm sure if you went to any other game and called the pros complete shit because they aren't Kespa players, they would agree and perhaps beg you to teach them more, but the SC2 fans are just so egotistical right? Everyone knows people like MC didn't succeed in Brood War, that doesn't mean you have to write condescending posts about how you have to "educate" us about how good Kespa players are. It's not an "irrational abhorrence" to Brood War, why would anyone have anything bad to say about BW specifically? Almost no one dislikes Brood War or claims that wasn't a great game with many talented, dedicated players that have now switched to SC2. People root against Kespa players because of people like you and the writer of the elephant article who are mindnumbingly condescending because you watch spent years of your life watching people play a video game in Korea and now think you're some kind of revered buddha of esports. Even if you are somehow superior for having watched BW for a long time, that's pretty much the equivalent of walking up to someone reading a book and going "Are you seriously reading that inferior series? Try some Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy, they were far more talented writers than this scumbag who only has a career because of writers like him. I can't believe their books are even sold in the same store, and that people like this guy." Even if you're right, you're still a condescending elitist. You being part of the forum equivalent of a private book club doesn't make you special. Some people just want some entertainment and to root for their players. MC's my favorite player, apparently that I get offended when someone calls him complete trash not fit to lick Flash's shoes makes me "an emotional egomaniac new-kid-on-the-block."
Yep the central message behind the article should definitely be taught in the heat of moment. See if it wasn't written back then, there would be way less hype induced around the notion of Kespa players making the switch. But because it was articulated, it heated up the topic. If it wasn't the same identical author that produced it, it would be someone else.
Oh yeah if you want talk about people shitting on Brood War, you should just visit some of the suggestions the BW communities made to enhance the StarCraft 2 experience. And also you should pay attention to some of the StarCraft 2 fan's attitude toward the game by saying that the big names in StarCraft:Brood War should make the switch because they are wasting their time on it. Or speaking nonsense like "BW is dead."
See if you don't want us to dangle around sensitive topics a la Elephant, some of the StarCraft 2 fans. Now I want to note that I did not say all of the StarCraft 2 fans because that some is actually in the sub 50% of population could use some history lessons.
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I think I like the BO1 idea better. It makes the sessions much faster, and it leaves suspense as to how well they'll do next time.
Or do they actually play all of the series and just televise them later?
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What I got from the LR
1. Kespa fanboys trolling hard and ESF fanboys dishing out excuses
2. Moletrap hate
3. MC all in
===
1. These kespa fanboys remind me of youtube haters. I have to admit I was disappointed, I thought BW fanbase in TL would be more mature than the sc2 ones, turns out you're just as bad. And ESF fanboys are getting so insecure by dishing out excuses lol. Bottom line is both parties are good and if one plays bad it's due to a lot of reasons
2. I don't like moletrap, but why keep bashing him? It's so easy to mute him or listen to the korean stream. I don't understand why people watch a caster they don't like. On the flip side, having a bad caster at least unites twitch.tv chat since they'll all bash the caster... as opposed to other topics usually talked in that cat
3. I don't see why people hated on MC's play today. The dude fucking expanded so early in PvP against a blink build. BeSt scouted the blink and he still decided to expand. Do Kespa fanboys expect 5 base vs 5 base all the time? God I can only imagine all the rage when flash goes 3 cc's against MC..
Keep it classy TL
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On August 30 2012 11:34 power-overwhelming wrote:
What I got from the LR
1. Kespa fanboys trolling hard and ESF fanboys dishing out excuses
2. Moletrap hate
3. MC all in
===
1. These kespa fanboys remind me of youtube haters. I have to admit I was disappointed, I thought BW fanbase in TL would be more mature than the sc2 ones, turns out you're just as bad. And ESF fanboys are getting so insecure by dishing out excuses lol. Bottom line is both parties are good and if one plays bad it's due to a lot of reasons
2. I don't like moletrap, but why keep bashing him? It's so easy to mute him or listen to the korean stream. I don't understand why people watch a caster they don't like. On the flip side, having a bad caster at least unites twitch.tv chat since they'll all bash the caster... as opposed to other topics usually talked in that cat
3. I don't see why people hated on MC's play today. The dude fucking expanded so early in PvP against a blink build. BeSt scouted the blink and he still decided to expand. Do Kespa fanboys expect 5 base vs 5 base all the time? God I can only imagine all the rage when flash goes 3 cc's against MC..
Keep it classy TL
Wait people complained MC did a 1 base build...in PvP...?
PvP basically works as:
Step 1: Do 1 base build
Step 2: Did you survive his 1 base build / can you not kill him?
Step 3: Expand and make lasers
Did these people not watch the last GSL finals? =/
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Wow... KeSPA players are improving quick but I didn't expect MKP and MVP to fall.
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On August 30 2012 12:43 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 11:34 power-overwhelming wrote:
What I got from the LR
1. Kespa fanboys trolling hard and ESF fanboys dishing out excuses
2. Moletrap hate
3. MC all in
===
1. These kespa fanboys remind me of youtube haters. I have to admit I was disappointed, I thought BW fanbase in TL would be more mature than the sc2 ones, turns out you're just as bad. And ESF fanboys are getting so insecure by dishing out excuses lol. Bottom line is both parties are good and if one plays bad it's due to a lot of reasons
2. I don't like moletrap, but why keep bashing him? It's so easy to mute him or listen to the korean stream. I don't understand why people watch a caster they don't like. On the flip side, having a bad caster at least unites twitch.tv chat since they'll all bash the caster... as opposed to other topics usually talked in that cat
3. I don't see why people hated on MC's play today. The dude fucking expanded so early in PvP against a blink build. BeSt scouted the blink and he still decided to expand. Do Kespa fanboys expect 5 base vs 5 base all the time? God I can only imagine all the rage when flash goes 3 cc's against MC..
Keep it classy TL Wait people complained MC did a 1 base build...in PvP...? PvP basically works as: Step 1: Do 1 base build Step 2: Did you survive his 1 base build / can you not kill him? Step 3: Expand and make lasers Did these people not watch the last GSL finals? =/
I thought it was :
1. do NOT expand
2. ????
3. Profit.
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On August 30 2012 11:09 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 08:05 Heavenlee wrote:On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect. Educational piece of work, intent to teach TL sc2 fans about BW, give hope to the fans about upcoming events...
Fact of the matter is that altogether these players have literally dozens and dozens of failed qualifications and prelims between them. Given enough time, perhaps their Brood War careers would have taken off. Generously speaking, I believe this to be very unlikely. Keep this in mind when considering these career stats.
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
Was (T)ThorZaIN vs (P)oGsMC awesome? Fuck yeah! I loved watching those two play, the games were fantastic. But isn't high school football in Friday Night Lights really exciting too?
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
Wow, what a great educational, enlightening article it was, huh? I don't really see why SC2 fans are being so uptight when he was really just trying to tell us about how nice the skill level will be when BW pros switch over. Those comments should definitely be accepted with humble humility huh? I'm sure if you went to any other game and called the pros complete shit because they aren't Kespa players, they would agree and perhaps beg you to teach them more, but the SC2 fans are just so egotistical right? Everyone knows people like MC didn't succeed in Brood War, that doesn't mean you have to write condescending posts about how you have to "educate" us about how good Kespa players are. It's not an "irrational abhorrence" to Brood War, why would anyone have anything bad to say about BW specifically? Almost no one dislikes Brood War or claims that wasn't a great game with many talented, dedicated players that have now switched to SC2. People root against Kespa players because of people like you and the writer of the elephant article who are mindnumbingly condescending because you watch spent years of your life watching people play a video game in Korea and now think you're some kind of revered buddha of esports. Even if you are somehow superior for having watched BW for a long time, that's pretty much the equivalent of walking up to someone reading a book and going "Are you seriously reading that inferior series? Try some Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy, they were far more talented writers than this scumbag who only has a career because of writers like him. I can't believe their books are even sold in the same store, and that people like this guy." Even if you're right, you're still a condescending elitist. You being part of the forum equivalent of a private book club doesn't make you special. Some people just want some entertainment and to root for their players. MC's my favorite player, apparently that I get offended when someone calls him complete trash not fit to lick Flash's shoes makes me "an emotional egomaniac new-kid-on-the-block." Yep the central message behind the article should definitely be taught in the heat of moment. See if it wasn't written back then, there would be way less hype induced around the notion of Kespa players making the switch. But because it was articulated, it heated up the topic. If it wasn't the same identical author that produced it, it would be someone else. Oh yeah if you want talk about people shitting on Brood War, you should just visit some of the suggestions the BW communities made to enhance the StarCraft 2 experience. And also you should pay attention to some of the StarCraft 2 fan's attitude toward the game by saying that the big names in StarCraft:Brood War should make the switch because they are wasting their time on it. Or speaking nonsense like "BW is dead." See if you don't want us to dangle around sensitive topics a la Elephant, some of the StarCraft 2 fans. Now I want to note that I did not say all of the StarCraft 2 fans because that some is actually in the sub 50% of population could use some history lessons.
BW pro scene is dead. I think that sucks as I was watching it a bit towards the end again but meh. That is unless you want to watch China which I think still has pro leagues. I wish both games could keep going but one didn't. Saying that doesn't mean you are insulting it. You really are delusional though... nice book of nonsense you wrote.
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Everyone is being so immature. Just cheer for your favourite players, corporations don't matter, and bashing isn't necessary. Some of the BW pros such as Bisu, Fantasy, and Jaedong, will be my favourites forever, but since I myself transitioned to SC2, I have acquired respect for new players such as Squirtle and MVP. As for ESF and Kespa themselves, I hate them both, they are both greedy and unbearable, but they just happen to 'own' the best gamers on the planet.
Also all you fans should stop being such crybabies. SC2 fanboys make every excuse in the book when one of their players lose, even dissing their own players and assuming that they just had an off game, but when DRG gets a chinsey win over Jangbi you guys go nuts and obviously ESF is better and Kespa's overrated.
And you BW fans ain't much better. Stop being so elitest and talking so much trash. Maybe if you were a tad more openminded you could see that there is plenty of talent in the ESF and maybe you could find yourselfs some new favourite players to watch. On a side note, stop disliking every SPL game where Bisu, Flash, Jaedong, or Stork loses, not cool guys, not cool...
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On August 30 2012 10:49 Diizzy wrote:
never liked mc play style. never will.
Guess you hate all Protoss....
Seed only went 1 base vs MC in gsl finals. When he went 2 base, he lost to MC 1 base. It's not the player, it's the match up. Protoss has the most boring unit comp. No defense. This is why Terran's and Zergs can expo 1v1. They have amazing defensive units and structures. Protoss has none of these.
Only way to fix this is to remove Collos with another AOE robo unit that is micro able... I'm sick of lazer wars. The loser of the big battle will lose 100 percent of the time. no comebacks ever.
I miss BW because of the back and forth battles. SC 2 is one battle and done. pvz, is so long because both sides don't wanna lose that 1 battle. Kinda depressing. I honestly think they should cap each hot key to 20-30 units. AT least it'll help break that deathball
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On August 30 2012 16:08 tranmillitary wrote:Guess you hate all Protoss.... Seed only went 1 base vs MC in gsl finals. When he went 2 base, he lost to MC 1 base. It's not the player, it's the match up. Protoss has the most boring unit comp. No defense. This is why Terran's and Zergs can expo 1v1. They have amazing defensive units and structures. Protoss has none of these. Only way to fix this is to remove Collos with another AOE robo unit that is micro able... I'm sick of lazer wars. The loser of the big battle will lose 100 percent of the time. no comebacks ever. I miss BW because of the back and forth battles. SC 2 is one battle and done. pvz, is so long because both sides don't wanna lose that 1 battle. Kinda depressing. I honestly think they should cap each hot key to 20-30 units. AT least it'll help break that deathball
Actually, it is not just of the defensive structures themselves. Ps can expand safely vs T (sentries) and Z (FFE, cannons). Problem is that blink bypasses both sentries AND cannons. Plus warp ins (via pylon or prism) take away more of the defenders advantage. So in PvP, you have very little defenders advantage so it is very hard to hold when your expansion hasn't kicked it.
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Jaedong with 90 food army stuck in his base > Flying > MVP = Jaedong winning 4 GSL's with 90 food supply stuck in his main ramp.
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On August 30 2012 10:50 Maghetti wrote:
I really hope to see more builds like Flyings build developed and used in sc2. sc2 pros seems to largely go super econ builds, "safe" builds like 1rax expand, and allin builds. I love seeing builds that get up some production/tech and attacks to get an advantage while still getting econ up. I hope to see more of this from the bw guys.
Economy and greed is the current trend. This is what some people in this thread have been trying to say: The kespa players are really messing with the sc2 metagame because they do old builds sometimes (like flyings immortal push) when the current metagame is greed and greed and hard teching. This, along with the bo1 does give the kespa players a slight advantage.
Im not saying this because i hate kespa or whatever, im a fan of good sc2 games no matter who is playing. But you cant deny that bo1 is likely to result in more upsets etc. Dont we quite often see koreans win 2 - 1 against foreigners in tournaments when we all know that the korean is a much better player? Its not uncommon for the korean to lose the first map either. I dont mean that kespa players are better or worse, im just talking about the effects of bo1 format. Ask yourself if there is a reason for a final to be bo5, or bo7, other than more entertainment and adds.
But this is just how it is, its not like OSL have created this format to benefit the kespa players in the battle against ESF. Afaik this format has been the standard for OSL for a very long time. Accept the situation, its not the end of the world if your favourite player loses a bo1, and its not evidence of any domination by anyone. Everyone should be happy about the addition of the kespa players to the sc2 scene, because together with the ESF players they are likely to produce more and better sc2 games in the near future than we have ever seen.
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On August 30 2012 11:34 power-overwhelming wrote:
What I got from the LR
1. Kespa fanboys trolling hard and ESF fanboys dishing out excuses
2. Moletrap hate
3. MC all in
===
1. These kespa fanboys remind me of youtube haters. I have to admit I was disappointed, I thought BW fanbase in TL would be more mature than the sc2 ones, turns out you're just as bad. And ESF fanboys are getting so insecure by dishing out excuses lol. Bottom line is both parties are good and if one plays bad it's due to a lot of reasons
2. I don't like moletrap, but why keep bashing him? It's so easy to mute him or listen to the korean stream. I don't understand why people watch a caster they don't like. On the flip side, having a bad caster at least unites twitch.tv chat since they'll all bash the caster... as opposed to other topics usually talked in that cat
3. I don't see why people hated on MC's play today. The dude fucking expanded so early in PvP against a blink build. BeSt scouted the blink and he still decided to expand. Do Kespa fanboys expect 5 base vs 5 base all the time? God I can only imagine all the rage when flash goes 3 cc's against MC..
Keep it classy TL
1. As a former OSL/ MSL viewer I'm disappointed a lot when I'm skimming through most of the threads in the Broodwar section. I notice just as many immature Broodwar players as there are SC2 players, and you add a massive inferiority complex on top of that and you get some really over the top elitism. Cut out the factional BS, because it's really clear that we're all just human, and e-sports brings out both the best and ugliest human traits in us, just like real sports. Don't be rioting and tipping people's cars when your team wins.
2. Moletrap isn't the best caster but people are just mean to that guy. It's hard to get quality casters to move to Korea. Maybe it's OGN's fault for not doing research on him first. I feel bad for him if he ever reads these kids trashing him all day, but he really should be better at this by now. The same things people complain about now were the reasons I disliked him back in his youtube days.
3. MC's a Boss, I love well executed, aggressive builds. He said in the interview that the stalker build was specifically tailored to counter what he knew his opponent would do. I love metagaming like that, but then again I was one of the guys happy when Firebathero took the series off of Savior using firebats, the proxy cheese.
I feel like Kespa players as a whole have been using more aggressive strategies than ESF players which I like. If they keep pushing multitasking for an advantage like they have been, pro SC2 should get a lot more interesting. I know there's a difference between an all-In build and an aggressive build, but if you're all-in on an opponent that the build is tailored to beat, then the chances of winning are higher than 50/50 because you're exploiting the player's known flaw. I don't see an issue with that.
Great post, you made responding to everything on the thread easy. So what happened with the 4th match?
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So is OSL really only two hours a night two days a week?
Boy you hardcore BW folks had it rough!
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On August 30 2012 15:18 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 11:09 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 08:05 Heavenlee wrote:On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect. Educational piece of work, intent to teach TL sc2 fans about BW, give hope to the fans about upcoming events...
Fact of the matter is that altogether these players have literally dozens and dozens of failed qualifications and prelims between them. Given enough time, perhaps their Brood War careers would have taken off. Generously speaking, I believe this to be very unlikely. Keep this in mind when considering these career stats.
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
Was (T)ThorZaIN vs (P)oGsMC awesome? Fuck yeah! I loved watching those two play, the games were fantastic. But isn't high school football in Friday Night Lights really exciting too?
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
Wow, what a great educational, enlightening article it was, huh? I don't really see why SC2 fans are being so uptight when he was really just trying to tell us about how nice the skill level will be when BW pros switch over. Those comments should definitely be accepted with humble humility huh? I'm sure if you went to any other game and called the pros complete shit because they aren't Kespa players, they would agree and perhaps beg you to teach them more, but the SC2 fans are just so egotistical right? Everyone knows people like MC didn't succeed in Brood War, that doesn't mean you have to write condescending posts about how you have to "educate" us about how good Kespa players are. It's not an "irrational abhorrence" to Brood War, why would anyone have anything bad to say about BW specifically? Almost no one dislikes Brood War or claims that wasn't a great game with many talented, dedicated players that have now switched to SC2. People root against Kespa players because of people like you and the writer of the elephant article who are mindnumbingly condescending because you watch spent years of your life watching people play a video game in Korea and now think you're some kind of revered buddha of esports. Even if you are somehow superior for having watched BW for a long time, that's pretty much the equivalent of walking up to someone reading a book and going "Are you seriously reading that inferior series? Try some Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy, they were far more talented writers than this scumbag who only has a career because of writers like him. I can't believe their books are even sold in the same store, and that people like this guy." Even if you're right, you're still a condescending elitist. You being part of the forum equivalent of a private book club doesn't make you special. Some people just want some entertainment and to root for their players. MC's my favorite player, apparently that I get offended when someone calls him complete trash not fit to lick Flash's shoes makes me "an emotional egomaniac new-kid-on-the-block." Yep the central message behind the article should definitely be taught in the heat of moment. See if it wasn't written back then, there would be way less hype induced around the notion of Kespa players making the switch. But because it was articulated, it heated up the topic. If it wasn't the same identical author that produced it, it would be someone else. Oh yeah if you want talk about people shitting on Brood War, you should just visit some of the suggestions the BW communities made to enhance the StarCraft 2 experience. And also you should pay attention to some of the StarCraft 2 fan's attitude toward the game by saying that the big names in StarCraft:Brood War should make the switch because they are wasting their time on it. Or speaking nonsense like "BW is dead." See if you don't want us to dangle around sensitive topics a la Elephant, some of the StarCraft 2 fans. Now I want to note that I did not say all of the StarCraft 2 fans because that some is actually in the sub 50% of population could use some history lessons. BW pro scene is dead. I think that sucks as I was watching it a bit towards the end again but meh. That is unless you want to watch China which I think still has pro leagues. I wish both games could keep going but one didn't. Saying that doesn't mean you are insulting it. You really are delusional though... nice book of nonsense you wrote.
I think he meant in the past, before Kespa began the transition to SC2. Of course the SC2 fans probably mostly meant no harm. They just wanted to see all the players united under one game in the name of esports. However, that is not what many of the BW fans cared about. They didn't care about esports as a whole, they cared about BW. So naturally, the SC2 fans ended up stepping on a lot of people's toes.
I also don't understand why people are so terribly hurt by the Kespa vs ESF argument. It generally comes with sports that you rub it in when your team or player wins. I think most people would agree that this fan rivalry only makes the competition more interesting (that is not to say, some people don't go overboard). If you want to simply enjoy good games then why don't you do that? Nothing is stopping you. You however choose to take part in a discussion that is outside of that scope. It is possible to have multile topics going on in a thread, so why don't you just contribute to a different topic? It's not like we're sharpening our blades or taking out our baseball bats to go fight each other on the streets. There is no harm done. The best players will end up on the top eventually and whoever ended up being wrong will learn to shut up (except the ESF fans, they'll just come up with excuses). That is when this discussion will end. And then there will either be nothing going on, making the competition dull, or something similar, starting it all over again. Such is life. Everything is good under the sun.
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opterown
Australia54783 Posts
On August 30 2012 17:25 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 15:18 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 11:09 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 08:05 Heavenlee wrote:On August 30 2012 06:51 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 06:34 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 06:01 Xiphos wrote:On August 30 2012 05:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 30 2012 04:40 p14c wrote:
So far Kespa 4 - GSL 3. Deal with it! Micro and macro from BW translate easily to SC2. They just need good build orders and to get acquainted with the new units. Why does anyone need to post retarded as shit stuff like this? DEAL WITH IT. This is what I'd expect from a 13 year old kid who likes yelling at people and showing their superiority. Does no one realize that it is possible to cheer for your own players without antagonizing people that cheer for someone else? Only if the antagonizing side don't spark the fire in the first place. So far, that's the sole reason why BW knowledgeable fanbase are doing, they are defending against the ongoing onslaught of the uninformed. People who don't take their time and effort to learn about the StarCraf's gaming competition is really committing a sin here. Some might even call that 'hurting e-sport'. Ummm what? 75% of the crap spewed comes from BW elitist fans. The elephant article was written by a BW elitist fanboy and was the first time I saw any conflict between the fan groups specifically pertaining to SC2. The only arguments from before that were the BW fans saying how much better their game is and how they don't enjoy watching SC2. Perhaps BW fans should simply accept that not every SC2 fan will know a ton about BW and that it is not an insult if they don't have time to learn about it. Many Sc2 fans expressed excitement about the BW players joining them and an expansion to their community. I very much doubt this is the way they expected it to go down. Stop acting so god damned elitist and like you shit Lannister gold and perhaps you would see less crap spewed. From what I can tell the huge majority of SC2 fans simply want both sides to perform well and for the people that they have cheered for two years to have continued success. I hope that Kespa players do well and I hope that the top ESF players continue doing well too. That article is suppose to be taken as an education piece of work. A work that could very well reflect on the future of the StarCraft 2 scene. The author's intend was to teach TeamLiquid's newly acquired StarCraft 2 fans about the 'other side of the gate'. Yes it might hit a touchy string in the heart of many people as they have became quite fond of some of their players. That's comprehensible on my part. But however, it does echoes sounds of truth and was very prescient on the following sequence of things. At heart, it suppose to give hope to the fans about the upcoming events that could potentially change their whole point of views on professional StarCraft gaming. But then it met with multiple of relentless attack reigned from the new fans. But these attacks are not based on logical reason or by looking at what the facts present themselves in front of their eyes. No these strikes came from their emotional egomaniac of new-kid-on-the-block-attitude. Instead of acknowledging it with humble humility, they put up their pitchforks and waged war upon the site's veterans. That's not the worst part yet, they have also developed an irrational abhorrence toward the grandfather of culturing altering's perspective on professional gaming, the predessor itself Brood War. And thus came the posts about "BW is a dead game", "Stop trying to change 'our' game for the better, if you want to obtain things that make BW great, you can just go back playing that game." And that's the exact attitude that the Brood War originated fans detest with the greatest passion possible. And it is up to 'us' to individually educate the uninformed about the entire Korean's professional gaming scene, their structure of the system, and its historical aspect. Educational piece of work, intent to teach TL sc2 fans about BW, give hope to the fans about upcoming events...
Fact of the matter is that altogether these players have literally dozens and dozens of failed qualifications and prelims between them. Given enough time, perhaps their Brood War careers would have taken off. Generously speaking, I believe this to be very unlikely. Keep this in mind when considering these career stats.
The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.
Was (T)ThorZaIN vs (P)oGsMC awesome? Fuck yeah! I loved watching those two play, the games were fantastic. But isn't high school football in Friday Night Lights really exciting too?
I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment
Wow, what a great educational, enlightening article it was, huh? I don't really see why SC2 fans are being so uptight when he was really just trying to tell us about how nice the skill level will be when BW pros switch over. Those comments should definitely be accepted with humble humility huh? I'm sure if you went to any other game and called the pros complete shit because they aren't Kespa players, they would agree and perhaps beg you to teach them more, but the SC2 fans are just so egotistical right? Everyone knows people like MC didn't succeed in Brood War, that doesn't mean you have to write condescending posts about how you have to "educate" us about how good Kespa players are. It's not an "irrational abhorrence" to Brood War, why would anyone have anything bad to say about BW specifically? Almost no one dislikes Brood War or claims that wasn't a great game with many talented, dedicated players that have now switched to SC2. People root against Kespa players because of people like you and the writer of the elephant article who are mindnumbingly condescending because you watch spent years of your life watching people play a video game in Korea and now think you're some kind of revered buddha of esports. Even if you are somehow superior for having watched BW for a long time, that's pretty much the equivalent of walking up to someone reading a book and going "Are you seriously reading that inferior series? Try some Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy, they were far more talented writers than this scumbag who only has a career because of writers like him. I can't believe their books are even sold in the same store, and that people like this guy." Even if you're right, you're still a condescending elitist. You being part of the forum equivalent of a private book club doesn't make you special. Some people just want some entertainment and to root for their players. MC's my favorite player, apparently that I get offended when someone calls him complete trash not fit to lick Flash's shoes makes me "an emotional egomaniac new-kid-on-the-block." Yep the central message behind the article should definitely be taught in the heat of moment. See if it wasn't written back then, there would be way less hype induced around the notion of Kespa players making the switch. But because it was articulated, it heated up the topic. If it wasn't the same identical author that produced it, it would be someone else. Oh yeah if you want talk about people shitting on Brood War, you should just visit some of the suggestions the BW communities made to enhance the StarCraft 2 experience. And also you should pay attention to some of the StarCraft 2 fan's attitude toward the game by saying that the big names in StarCraft:Brood War should make the switch because they are wasting their time on it. Or speaking nonsense like "BW is dead." See if you don't want us to dangle around sensitive topics a la Elephant, some of the StarCraft 2 fans. Now I want to note that I did not say all of the StarCraft 2 fans because that some is actually in the sub 50% of population could use some history lessons. BW pro scene is dead. I think that sucks as I was watching it a bit towards the end again but meh. That is unless you want to watch China which I think still has pro leagues. I wish both games could keep going but one didn't. Saying that doesn't mean you are insulting it. You really are delusional though... nice book of nonsense you wrote. I think he meant in the past, before Kespa began the transition to SC2. Of course the SC2 fans probably mostly meant no harm. They just wanted to see all the players united under one game in the name of esports. However, that is not what many of the BW fans cared about. They didn't care about esports as a whole, they cared about BW. So naturally, the SC2 fans ended up stepping on a lot of people's toes. I also don't understand why people are so terribly hurt by the Kespa vs ESF argument. It generally comes with sports that you rub it in when your team or player wins. I think most people would agree that this fan rivalry only makes the competition more interesting (that is not to say, some people don't go overboard). If you want to simply enjoy good games then why don't you do that? Nothing is stopping you. You however choose to take part in a discussion that is outside of that scope. It is possible to have multile topics going on in a thread, so why don't you just contribute to a different topic? It's not like we're sharpening our blades or taking out our baseball bats to go fight each other on the streets. There is no harm done. The best players will end up on the top eventually and whoever ended up being wrong will learn to shut up (except the ESF fans, they'll just come up with excuses). That is when this discussion will end. And then there will either be nothing going on, making the competition dull, or something similar, starting it all over again. Such is life. Everything is good under the sun.
one of the more reasonable posts i've seen from you :p
however, it's difficult to ignore topics too, haha, we're only human. i've done what i can to not get drawn into this discussion too much, but it has been a disappointing read to say the least, with both sides going at each other.
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