EPT[OSL] RO16 Day 1 - Page 6
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Thinasy
2856 Posts
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On August 23 2012 17:35 BobMcJohnson wrote: I'm fine with Bo1 personally, Bo1 in a MLG like open bracket is shit of course since it's way too random with no preparation, but bo1 with a huge preparation time like the players have in OSL is really cool imo. It allows to have a really big preparation time/number of game ratio so we can see really refined map/player-dependent uncommon builds. I actually believe that the current trend of SC2 of playing big boX series with so many tourneys running with little preparation time is one of the reason the current metagame is so boring/static. Players dont really have enough time to prepare specific builds tailored for their opponents/map and have to fall back on standard ISO-9001 boring play. You may be right with the preparation/no preparation factor. But regarding the BOx series, it's more the contrary imo. I mean u have another dimension of metagame when playing several maps against your opponent. It allows u to show him several strategies and it results in less boring game imo. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On August 23 2012 17:23 Jumperer wrote: no, it would be stupid to change 10+ years of groupplay format just because some people are used to seeing bo9. The problem is that it's not "just because" of that. It's because the game is different from the one played during these 10+ years. Even if in the end the format is not changed, don't u think that given the game is a different one, at least the question of changing the format or not should be considered ? | ||
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On August 23 2012 17:46 samurai80 wrote: You may be right with the preparation/no preparation factor. But regarding the BOx series, it's more the contrary imo. I mean u have another dimension of metagame when playing several maps against your opponent. It allows u to show him several strategies and it results in less boring game imo. Well it adds another dimension sure, but it's assuming that you actually have the time to prepare for the match in question. When a player has a bo7 to prepare, with other tournaments running at the same time, how long can you expect him to spend on the preparation of one map? On studying his opponent? It's only a valid point if the player has the time to prepare enough to exploit it correctly. Having multiple matches also removes a dimension, in a bo1 the player has no error margin whatsoever. In a bo5 you can throw in a cheese and if it fails, whatever, you still have the rest of the series to catch up. In a bo1 whatever you try to do, it HAS to work otherwise you're dead. Also don't forget it's still group play, it's not like it's a single elim bo1. Bo1 play was bad in the early GSLs because the game was young which increased the random factor by a lot, now that the game has stabilized, reintroducing it is a good thing. As said before, OSL always used this format, let them use it this season and if it fails badly, then nothing prevents them from changing it next time, but it would be stupid not to try it at least once. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 23 2012 08:33 bittman wrote: No no. The real reason is: "BW". Say what you want about DRG and Nestea, but as if the votes for Fantasy and Jangbi are based upon their sc2 skills compared to DRG + Nestea. Slumping or not, if this poll was DRG vs LegalMind it wouldn't be close. Not saying Jangbi is bad because BW fans will smack me upside the head. But the votes are not based upon the falling results of these two zerg players. No way no how. In Fantasy's case, it is based on his abilities as a player. Nestea doesn't have the mechanics to stand up to Fantasy, in fact the difference in that category is so immense that IMO Nestea's only chance to win is using some quirky build and hoping that Fantasy doesn't scout it and/or can't figure out what's going on. And with the amount of preparation Fantasy is going to put in, one would expect that he comes prepared to handle any variant of Nestea's iconic Baneling busts. As for Jangbi-DRG, I don't think the predictions are one-sided in Jangbi's favor at all. DRG is generally favored even in his slumping state as he's a fundamentally strong player that has the raw ability to stand up to many players on Kespa teams. But DRG's current state is still enough to give Jangbi a fighting (40-60ish) chance imo. Also, I'd say Protoss is generally favored in a BO1 due to the sheer amount of tricky BOs they can pull out. | ||
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On August 23 2012 18:01 BobMcJohnson wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well it adds another dimension sure, but it's assuming that you actually have the time to prepare for the match in question. When a player has a bo7 to prepare, with other tournaments running at the same time, how long can you expect him to spend on the preparation of one map? On studying his opponent? It's only a valid point if the player has the time to prepare enough to exploit it correctly. Having multiple matches also removes a dimension, in a bo1 the player has no error margin whatsoever. In a bo5 you can throw in a cheese and if it fails, whatever, you still have the rest of the series to catch up. In a bo1 whatever you try to do, it HAS to work otherwise you're dead. Also don't forget it's still group play, it's not like it's a single elim bo1. Bo1 play was bad in the early GSLs because the game was young which increased the random factor by a lot, now that the game has stabilized, reintroducing it is a good thing. As said before, OSL always used this format, let them use it this season and if it fails badly, then nothing prevents them from changing it next time, but it would be stupid not to try it at least once. Well it adds another dimension sure, but it's assuming that you actually have the time to prepare for the match in question. When a player has a bo7 to prepare, with other tournaments running at the same time, how long can you expect him to spend on the preparation of one map? On studying his opponent? It's only a valid point if the player has the time to prepare enough to exploit it correctly. Well, for the GSL group stage, it is BO3 and you have something like 3 weeks between RO32 and RO16. I guess it's enough to prepare a beautiful match. Having multiple matches also removes a dimension, in a bo1 the player has no error margin whatsoever. In a bo5 you can throw in a cheese and if it fails, whatever, you still have the rest of the series to catch up. In a bo1 whatever you try to do, it HAS to work otherwise you're dead. Well so basically you say it prevents you from doing a cheesy/risky strategy. This is actually making the gameplay less variable/more predictible. Also don't forget it's still group play, it's not like it's a single elim bo1. Bo1 play was bad in the early GSLs because the game was young which increased the random factor by a lot, now that the game has stabilized, reintroducing it is a good thing. As said before, OSL always used this format, let them use it this season and if it fails badly, then nothing prevents them from changing it next time, but it would be stupid not to try it at least once. Agreed with this last statement. I guess we must have a try with this format that has been used during BW. But I'm sceptical about the results. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:37 IntoTheheart wrote: Probably the nonKeSPA players will take these. I don't know about NesTea because he's not the same form as usual but nevertheless DRG should take out JB no problem. man why do you all dont think DRG is in a huge slump right now?? -_-................... hes losing everything left and right.....and flash should kill san. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:53 X3GoldDot wrote: man why do you all dont think DRG is in a huge slump right now?? -_-................... hes losing everything left and right.....and flash should kill san. Because: 1) His downturn hasn't been for very long. (he only started to shit the bed when he got raped by MC roughly a month ago) 2) He still looks pretty good at least in some instances. 3) He's kind of had the best overall results so far for 2012. Still. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
The Vods will be free and on their twitch page correct? | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On August 23 2012 18:06 Talin wrote: In Fantasy's case, it is based on his abilities as a player. Nestea doesn't have the mechanics to stand up to Fantasy, in fact the difference in that category is so immense that IMO Nestea's only chance to win is using some quirky build and hoping that Fantasy doesn't scout it and/or can't figure out what's going on. And with the amount of preparation Fantasy is going to put in, one would expect that he comes prepared to handle any variant of Nestea's iconic Baneling busts. As for Jangbi-DRG, I don't think the predictions are one-sided in Jangbi's favor at all. DRG is generally favored even in his slumping state as he's a fundamentally strong player that has the raw ability to stand up to many players on Kespa teams. But DRG's current state is still enough to give Jangbi a fighting (40-60ish) chance imo. Also, I'd say Protoss is generally favored in a BO1 due to the sheer amount of tricky BOs they can pull out. Well Fantasy hasn't looked too hot on his PL SC2 matches, we'll have to see. NesTea should take it easily, unless he goes for something really risky, which may happen because well.. NesTea just does that sometimes. JangBi on the other hand... has a better chance over a VERY off form DRG, it's been a catastrophic month for DRG and pretty much anyone could beat him right now. Since JangBi has looked pretty decent in PL, I'd say he's probably favoured to win the match. Parting should completely crush Baby, while Flash is just God. Won't vote against him | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:14 mordk wrote: Well Fantasy hasn't looked too hot on his PL SC2 matches, we'll have to see. NesTea should take it easily, unless he goes for something really risky, which may happen because well.. NesTea just does that sometimes. JangBi on the other hand... has a better chance over a VERY off form DRG, it's been a catastrophic month for DRG and pretty much anyone could beat him right now. Since JangBi has looked pretty decent in PL, I'd say he's probably favoured to win the match. Parting should completely crush Baby, while Flash is just God. Won't vote against him I really want to believe in Nestea, but over the past few months he's payed my faith back with some of the worst games I've ever seen (mostly in ZvT). I just can't recall the last time Nestea played a proper lategame. While I normally roll my eyes at what Talin has to say about Nestea, I fear he may actually be right at this point, because the only positive I can say about his ZvT anymore is that he still usually holds all-ins very well, and he makes those baneling busts work quite frequently. Everything else is just frustrating to watch. He takes subsequent expansions beyond the 3rd too slowly, the creep never goes past the center of the map anymore, the engagements are half-assed, and probably the #1 problem is he pulls his entire army out of position repeatedly to handle small drops allowing the terran to gain ground on the map and drop his ass in several other positions without much threat. So I'm quite worried about his chances to say the least.. | ||
opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:18 GolemMadness wrote: Does anyone know if there'll be a good place to watch these not live? The Esportstv channel is pretty much unbearable to watch. ogn twitch has vods i think | ||
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-visnu-
Australia151 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
I think DRG > JangBi, NesTea > Fantasy, PartinG > BaBy, San > Flash. Hard to predict otherwise >_> | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
On August 23 2012 08:49 ampson wrote: MANzenith is probably going to destroy flash. I'm gonna predict a 4-0 for the GOM players (I've heard some people call them bears) but it would not surprise me to see either DRG or NesTea lose, so a 3-1 is feasible. I think San is underrated - even by himself judging from what he said at the group stage nominations, or maybe that was just typical Korean humility. San does seem to lose to Taeja and MarineKing in PvT, but he can do well in the matchup. See lower bracket run during MLG qualifier: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZV3Y8.png) | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On August 24 2012 07:14 mordk wrote: Well Fantasy hasn't looked too hot on his PL SC2 matches, we'll have to see. NesTea should take it easily, unless he goes for something really risky, which may happen because well.. NesTea just does that sometimes. JangBi on the other hand... has a better chance over a VERY off form DRG, it's been a catastrophic month for DRG and pretty much anyone could beat him right now. Since JangBi has looked pretty decent in PL, I'd say he's probably favoured to win the match. Parting should completely crush Baby, while Flash is just God. Won't vote against him I haven't seen the games, but Fantasy is 5-1 in SC2 PL. The only loss is to Stork who is 5-0 in PvT. Should be a pretty close matchup, imo. | ||
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