On August 08 2012 00:44 setzer wrote: So you're tired of all the coaches and players lying to the fans and media by saying they have only been seriously playing since the end of the last proleague season?
You know some coaches have went as far as claiming that their team started practicing the year before ?
Besides, you know very well that "a few" refers to 2-3 months, and that it's the very precise reason why some uninformed people genuinely believe that Soulkey has a 2 months Starcraft 2 experience and thus put up an extraordinary fight.
If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
On August 08 2012 00:44 setzer wrote: So you're tired of all the coaches and players lying to the fans and media by saying they have only been seriously playing since the end of the last proleague season?
You know some coaches have went as far as claiming that their team started practicing the year before ?
Besides, you know very well that "a few" refers to 2-3 months, and that it's the very precise reason why some uninformed people genuinely believe that Soulkey has a 2 months Starcraft 2 experience and thus put up an extraordinary fight.
Not a single coach has said they have been continuously practicing SC2 for the past year. What some coaches has said is, because of the uncertainly over the format of the PRIOR Proleague season, the teams practiced for a few weeks in case SC2 was going to replace BW. Flash himself said he played only a few days while in the hospital and that was it until after his vacation period before the start of this season.
Feel feel to prove me wrong, however, by showing interviews of coaching deliberately jeapordizing their success in the past season of Proleague.
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
This is quite big, actually. Are there by any chance vods of these games?
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
This is quite big, actually. Are there by any chance vods of these games?
Yah He 2-0d Shine as well. I'm really excited to see him play against YuGiOh, since he has already 2-0d two consecutive Code Sish level zergs. The match has the potential to be the only KESPA upset.
Just started catching up on the WCS games and I gotta say the announcer voice they have is really creepy, and not in a positive way. I hope GOM gets rid of it asap.
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
This is quite big, actually. Are there by any chance vods of these games?
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
Well considering he was straight up obliterated by YongHwa in WCG Qualifier i'm not so sure about that.
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
Well considering he was straight up obliterated by YongHwa in WCG Qualifier i'm not so sure about that.
how do you know? even though it was 2-0, we didn't see the games so we don't know about that
On August 08 2012 00:57 Grumbels wrote: If a sizable portion of the KeSPA players had been playing for far longer than three months at least some of them would have been Code S level by now. We know this because Hyun is Code S-ish level now after 9 months of playing, yet even the very best KeSPA pros are probably not Code A level yet. (see Soulkey and By.Sun's recent games)
I think in retrospect people have been making stuff up. I know LastShadow (the most credible of sources *cough*) said something along the lines of "we'll see a metagame shift once the KeSPA players officially switch based on my experiences on ladder" in April or so. Which to me sounds really ridiculous, since none of them are really good yet, even three months later.
Reality - Beating Symbol 2-0 and Heart 2-1. Heart was the only person to take a game off of him during the WCS qualifiers. He was the only KESPA player to make it through the preliminaries without being qualified. Reality seems like he maybe a force to reckon with. Time will only tell if he can play with the other big name Non-KESPA players.
This is quite big, actually. Are there by any chance vods of these games?
Yah He 2-0d Shine as well. I'm really excited to see him play against YuGiOh, since he has already 2-0d two consecutive Code Sish level zergs. The match has the potential to be the only KESPA upset.
I dunno I would call Shine Code S level since I don't think he's ever been in Code S. But beating Symbol is a good start.
I think I'm going to stop talking in LR threads about Kespa players. Some people seem to really have an intense stigma against them doing well after such a short time. I don't know why some spectators are so sensitive to the fact that BW pros are the likely the best RTS players in the world and them switching is not going to take long. It's likely because many people have spent the last 1-2 years saying "LOL, when is BW gonna die?" So their minds seem to hate the idea of the BW players dominating the scene after ignoring it for so long.
Maybe its just the need to be right. I know casters suffer from this, they often get stuck in the prediction game of who is going to win. I can see spectators doing similar things. It's a pretty safe assumption to pick GSL players over the Kespa players. Then, you get a lot of comments made to reinforce these assumptions. Calling players pathetic, their fans pathetic, making random assertions that can't really be checked.
For me, it seems like a pointless argument. I just want to see fantastic games. SoulKey and even Sun to a point have showed some nice games (and of course some silly games). JD had a decent game as well in WCS. I find their progress to be comforting. My biggest fear as a fan is to watch players go through what Bisu is going through right now.
On August 08 2012 08:13 justinpal wrote: I think I'm going to stop talking in LR threads about Kespa players. Some people seem to really have an intense stigma against them doing well after such a short time. I don't know why some spectators are so sensitive to the fact that BW pros are the likely the best RTS players in the world and them switching is not going to take long. It's likely because many people have spent the last 1-2 years saying "LOL, when is BW gonna die?" So their minds seem to hate the idea of the BW players dominating the scene after ignoring it for so long.
Maybe its just the need to be right. I know casters suffer from this, they often get stuck in the prediction game of who is going to win. I can see spectators doing similar things. It's a pretty safe assumption to pick GSL players over the Kespa players. Then, you get a lot of comments made to reinforce these assumptions. Calling players pathetic, their fans pathetic, making random assertions that can't really be checked.
For me, it seems like a pointless argument. I just want to see fantastic games. SoulKey and even Sun to a point have showed some nice games (and of course some silly games). JD had a decent game as well in WCS. I find their progress to be comforting. My biggest fear as a fan is to watch players go through what Bisu is going through right now.
I had issues with people saying they would dominate instantly, and also because "BW is harder."
One guy justified this saying that BW commands the highest APM that any game asks for (citing July was successful because he could click fast), which is simply not true and a bit silly to me.
Yes Kespa players have played SC2 for longer than 4 months, but they didn't seriously practice for it til 3-4 months ago. It was something to do when bored and done with practice. Much like League of Legends is something to play casually for a number of SC2 pros. Calling it practice is absurd. And the strength in kespa teams is in practice.
Furthermore, The Elephant in the Room article was written at a time where most players had terrible mechanics/understanding (relative to now) so I personally believe that had they switched back then, they would have been able to overcome the kespa-gsl gap a lot faster.
Soulkey vs Gumiho games great games to watch (in my opinion). Really enjoyed them, some great moments, and good long macro games. Soulkey definitely one of the better BW players at the moment I think, and those games showed it. Cool composition by Soulkey as well that I don't think I've really seen utilised in that way before. Don't know if getting some mutas at some point ever to do some economic harrassment midgame would help him maybe, since Gumiho had too much free macro time IMO.
EPT
