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On August 06 2012 21:12 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive. Blaming balance (even if its map balance) is a really stupid thing to do, JD lost straight up, don't try to dodge it.
You have no argument. All you did was call my statement 'stupid'. Antiga heavily favors Terran (FACT, check tournament statistics/and just look at the archetype of the map). Having the map favor Terran doesn't help aLive's chances to win? lol.
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On August 06 2012 21:05 Gosi wrote:
Don't feel bad Jaedong, this guy doesn't even have fangirls. mohaha
Hahahahaha, I lol'd
But yeah JD played a pretty impressive game in the 1st set. 2nd set wasn't very good though. Hopefully he'll be able to grow as a sc2 player from this. Jaedong I believe!
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On August 06 2012 21:12 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:10 Kommander wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 aRyuujin wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Chenz wrote:On August 06 2012 21:03 shineq wrote:I'm kinda sad now, I wanted to see the Kespa players do well  Reality is still in the tournament, and he's actually quite good. If a KeSPA player would have a decent shot in this tournament, it's him. sad to see Light not in this, he's one of the best kespa players at sc2. lights fangirl is sooo pretty + Show Spoiler + Ahh, Lightgirl. Light should marry her, seriously. i would in a sec, pretty like that and loves starcraft 0_0 <3 <3 <3
TBH, she looks like hwasin :S
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On August 06 2012 21:12 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive. Blaming balance (even if its map balance) is a really stupid thing to do, JD lost straight up, don't try to dodge it.
But obviously it plays a role. A map where it's actually possible to hold a fourth base and maybe JD takes that.
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On August 06 2012 21:15 Eurytos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
This poll seems to have rather extreme choices. Neither do i feel that GSL is a farce and that the games would have been closer, nor do am i VERY SURE that in 6 months time kespa players will dominate. What I feel is something more moderate where more kespa players will eventually compete at Code S level, but they won't be dominating the scenes either. Code S players will still have the slight edge but eventually the gap will be closed and both kespa and gsl players have almost equal representation in tourneys.
The poll is extreme because the "Elephant" concept is an extreme concept which says that the Kespa players will completely dominate the SC2 scene after switching.
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On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
I don't think it is a good poll.
The gsl competition is not a farce, but that doesn't mean the kespa players won't dominate in like 6 months or so.
The point is that the potential of these people is unknown at this moment. If we still see games like this in another 3 months, I might begin to think there is no elephant (dependent on player of course). Personally i still think kespaplayers playing sc2 will give an upward force in terms of overall skill level. Does that mean i think there is an elephant? not necessarily. Just an increase in population (of progamers) should give a rise in level.
I feel this poll is too back and white.
Edit: lol @ map balance whine
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Ukraine1905 Posts
On August 06 2012 21:11 Bromazepam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
How about "no, give them a few months and they'll be at the same level"?
Most of the top GSL players are either the B-teamers or the actual players. The guys who are currently at top of GSL would some day be the top at KeSPA. They just needed the time.
Same with KeSPA. If you will let them play they will produce the top-quality players.
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On August 06 2012 21:07 LimitSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:05 jellyjello wrote:
JD vs SC now in the losers bracket. JD can take him. sC's sick good, much more aggressive than aLive. If JD can defend his early game pressure he'll be in with a shot, but my money's still on sC. Also is that confirmed? sC vs JD losers bracket?
sC WAS good back in the day, but not anymore. Word is that he hasn't been able to practice much, which showed in his games today. Seriously, how the heck did he lose his first game? I wouldn't put JD as underdog here. JD played very good especially considering the maps he played in against Terran.
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On August 06 2012 21:13 Levistus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:09 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 aRyuujin wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Chenz wrote:On August 06 2012 21:03 shineq wrote:I'm kinda sad now, I wanted to see the Kespa players do well Reality is still in the tournament, and he's actually quite good. If a KeSPA player would have a decent shot in this tournament, it's him. sad to see Light not in this, he's one of the best kespa players at sc2. lights fangirl is sooo pretty + Show Spoiler + more pics of lightgirl pls :D
as u wish but i'm spoilering them cause their too big
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac
Just stop already.
You were frigging exaggerating as hell. There are very well moments where playing this Roach/Ling/Bling is somewhat appropriate, and in this game it was okay. Considering that JD was rather behind already and that Alive did play very well it wasn't too terrible.
But that's just one thing. Your pathetic "even gold leaguers[...]". Just stop. Those statements are bad and you should feel bad. By the way, what's your league?
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On August 06 2012 21:16 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:15 Eurytos wrote:On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
This poll seems to have rather extreme choices. Neither do i feel that GSL is a farce and that the games would have been closer, nor do am i VERY SURE that in 6 months time kespa players will dominate. What I feel is something more moderate where more kespa players will eventually compete at Code S level, but they won't be dominating the scenes either. Code S players will still have the slight edge but eventually the gap will be closed and both kespa and gsl players have almost equal representation in tourneys. The poll is extreme because the "Elephant" concept is an extreme concept which says that the Kespa players will completely dominate the SC2 scene after switching.
The thread clearly didn't take into account the players having to practice for both BW and SC2.
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On August 06 2012 21:16 grungust wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 MCDayC wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive. Blaming balance (even if its map balance) is a really stupid thing to do, JD lost straight up, don't try to dodge it. You have no argument. All you did was call my statement 'stupid'. Antiga heavily favors Terran (FACT, check tournament statistics/and just look at the archetype of the map). Having the map favor Terran doesn't help aLive's chances to win? lol.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/500_Antiga_Shipyard_1.2
53.7% for terran is not heavily favored. The maps were decent. Not the best maps for Jaedong but not as bad as you want to make them.
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On August 06 2012 21:13 Chenz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:11 Bromazepam wrote:On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
How about "no, give them a few months and they'll be at the same level"? The elephant is that KeSPA will dominate the SC2 scene. The elephant being slain could mean either that they'll catch up and compete on an even level with current SC2 pros or that they'll never catch up (highly unlikely). Which means, there's two options that you could vote on with your opinion.
Exactly.
I shouldn't have copped out and added the "not yet but it's looking like it will be" option really, but I'm pleasantly surprised that that is the lowest voted one. It'll be interesting how this plays out for sure.
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many people seem to think that kespa player are naturally more talented and therefore will eventually dominate. this is extremely dumb, seeing as many of the sc2 players are former BW pros and many of them are mediocore/average.
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On August 06 2012 21:12 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:10 jellyjello wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Myrddraal wrote:On August 06 2012 20:59 aRyuujin wrote:really agree with clide. It’s just they still lack experiences in early game. In mid-to-late game, KeSPA and GSL players are almost the same level. Hmm I don't really see how that works, considering that early game is where they would have the most practice as every game you play the early game. I think late game would favour GSL players a lot more not because they would necessarily have better multitasking, but they would know what to do with their multitasking, and what to potentially expect from their opponents. Clide was making a point about many different builds that exist in SC2, compared to BW. basically what this guy said. there are so many random cheeses and rushes in sc2 that the players simply haven't played against enough to hold as well. That's why you see people fold to proxy marauder, 2 rax, etc. so easily.
I don't disagree with that, but I do disagree that the Kespa players are about the same in mid/late game. I think they still have a bit to go before they get to that point.
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On August 06 2012 21:16 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:15 Eurytos wrote:On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
This poll seems to have rather extreme choices. Neither do i feel that GSL is a farce and that the games would have been closer, nor do am i VERY SURE that in 6 months time kespa players will dominate. What I feel is something more moderate where more kespa players will eventually compete at Code S level, but they won't be dominating the scenes either. Code S players will still have the slight edge but eventually the gap will be closed and both kespa and gsl players have almost equal representation in tourneys. The poll is extreme because the "Elephant" concept is an extreme concept which says that the Kespa players will completely dominate the SC2 scene after switching.
Yup. In this sense, saying "the Elephant has been slain" is equivalent to saying whatever future success Kespa players have, it won't come uniquely from their BW skills/experience (in other words, they are mortals like everyone else).
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On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac
Correct me If i'm mistaken but in game 2 the probable reason why JD decided to go roaches was because Ling, bane composition alone would not be cost efficient. Having be on equal bases with terran, you need to trade cost efficiently which cannot be done with ling bane against MMM. With decent micro good baneling hits are very rare hence the need of roaches to continue dealing damage when the bio force is kiting. Hope this explains.
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On August 06 2012 21:20 Eurytos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Correct me If i'm mistaken but in game 2 the probable reason why JD decided to go roaches was because Ling, bane composition alone would not be cost efficient. Having be on equal bases with terran, you need to trade cost efficiently which cannot be done with ling bane against MMM. With decent micro good baneling hits are very rare hence the need of roaches to continue dealing damage when the bio force is kiting. Hope this explains. I thought it also was a larva-issue, not sure though.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On August 06 2012 21:16 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 MCDayC wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive. Blaming balance (even if its map balance) is a really stupid thing to do, JD lost straight up, don't try to dodge it. But obviously it plays a role. A map where it's actually possible to hold a fourth base and maybe JD takes that.
Of course it plays a role, but it shouldn't really be used as an excuse for a loss, especially as antiga is pretty well balanced, slightly favouring Terran in korea, but also completely balanced on the foreign scene.
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On August 06 2012 21:16 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 Kommander wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 aRyuujin wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Chenz wrote:On August 06 2012 21:03 shineq wrote:I'm kinda sad now, I wanted to see the Kespa players do well Reality is still in the tournament, and he's actually quite good. If a KeSPA player would have a decent shot in this tournament, it's him. sad to see Light not in this, he's one of the best kespa players at sc2. lights fangirl is sooo pretty + Show Spoiler + Ahh, Lightgirl. Light should marry her, seriously. i would in a sec, pretty like that and loves starcraft 0_0 <3 <3 <3 TBH, she looks like hwasin :S
i thought it was a well know fact and hwasin is sexy
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hePIO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n8PBI.jpg<br>)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6E0dq.jpg)
