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On August 06 2012 21:12 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:06 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
welcome to sc2 where there are 200x more variables you have to keep in mind compared to BW...
gotta tech to infestors faster... and not good broods on antiga...
nonetheless mechanics were spot on as expected. Maybe you can explain how the former BW b-team pros couldn't handle 200x less variables in BW?
They're a lot of ex b-teamers who failed to reach code A level in Starcraft 2 and whom you will never heard anything about.
Few ex B teamers ended up doing well, few ex A teamer ended up doing well.
That's the reality of Starcraft II.
Jaedong doesn't look promising nor terrible, no one can know how good he is going to be in 6 months, and his BW past definitely wouldn't help him getting better sc2 micro/multitask/macro/luck.
Both Flash and Jaedong repeated several times that it was a new and different game.
That's the correct mindset to have.
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On August 06 2012 21:18 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:16 Yello wrote:On August 06 2012 21:15 Eurytos wrote:On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
This poll seems to have rather extreme choices. Neither do i feel that GSL is a farce and that the games would have been closer, nor do am i VERY SURE that in 6 months time kespa players will dominate. What I feel is something more moderate where more kespa players will eventually compete at Code S level, but they won't be dominating the scenes either. Code S players will still have the slight edge but eventually the gap will be closed and both kespa and gsl players have almost equal representation in tourneys. The poll is extreme because the "Elephant" concept is an extreme concept which says that the Kespa players will completely dominate the SC2 scene after switching. The thread clearly didn't take into account the players having to practice for both BW and SC2.
Of course it didn't. But the discussion is still the same. Will Kespa players dominate or not? I think it will all even out and they won't dominate and the elephant will die.
But we won't get a definite answer until a year from now. Maybe even longer. And as long as we don't get an answer there will be a discussion about it.
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On August 06 2012 21:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Just stop already. You were frigging exaggerating as hell. There are very well moments where playing this Roach/Ling/Bling is somewhat appropriate, and in this game it was okay. Considering that JD was rather behind already and that Alive did play very well it wasn't too terrible. But that's just one thing. Your pathetic "even gold leaguers[...]". Just stop. Those statements are bad and you should feel bad. By the way, what's your league?
I'm masters, I really think his decision making was subpar, he built like 40 lings after the failed bust, maybe he thought a push was coming I dunno, he shouldn't have built roaches against rine marauder vac and I don't know how you can justify this as they are objectively bad against alive's unit comp, the gold league comment was low I agree but I don't feel bad for having a different opinion to you
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On August 06 2012 21:17 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:07 LimitSEA wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 jellyjello wrote:
JD vs SC now in the losers bracket. JD can take him. sC's sick good, much more aggressive than aLive. If JD can defend his early game pressure he'll be in with a shot, but my money's still on sC. Also is that confirmed? sC vs JD losers bracket? sC WAS good back in the day, but not anymore. Word is that he hasn't been able to practice much, which showed in his games today. Seriously, how the heck did he lose his first game? I wouldn't put JD as underdog here. JD played very good especially considering the maps he played in against Terran.
Yeah, sC's health problems have made it very difficult for him to practice. But the fact that he got into such a good position against a Protoss of PartinG's level shows how good he is on his day. He may have been a touch too passive in that game, but the fact is, PartinG has some of the best defense in PvT out there, so losing to him is nothing to be ashamed of. I'd still put him as a heavy favourite, particularly since JD has shown some issues with defending drops and seems to have a tendency to make strange decisions that cost him greatly.
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On August 06 2012 21:12 GolemMadness wrote:
Someone who's only been playing Starcraft 2 for a few months while also practicing Brood War isn't yet as good as people who've been playing for two years and practice full time? WOW. O_O
Right. It's pretty obvious. Some people are poking at those who were yelling the elephant thing.
They're not saying Kespa players won't become good eventually. They're saying the elephant prediction (Kespa players coming and easily dominating everyone) is a BS.
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On August 06 2012 21:22 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Just stop already. You were frigging exaggerating as hell. There are very well moments where playing this Roach/Ling/Bling is somewhat appropriate, and in this game it was okay. Considering that JD was rather behind already and that Alive did play very well it wasn't too terrible. But that's just one thing. Your pathetic "even gold leaguers[...]". Just stop. Those statements are bad and you should feel bad. By the way, what's your league? I'm masters, I really think his decision making was subpar, he built like 40 lings after the failed bust, maybe he thought a push was coming I dunno, he shouldn't have built roaches against rine marauder vac and I don't know how you can justify this as they are objectively bad against alive's unit comp, the gold league comment was low I agree but I don't feel bad for having a different opinion to you
i really dislike this "my rank is" kinda thing when debating, u should settle it the old bw way "1V1 LETS GO BITCH GOOGOGO" lol that was the best
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On August 06 2012 21:22 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 setzer wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
welcome to sc2 where there are 200x more variables you have to keep in mind compared to BW...
gotta tech to infestors faster... and not good broods on antiga...
nonetheless mechanics were spot on as expected. Maybe you can explain how the former BW b-team pros couldn't handle 200x less variables in BW? They're a lot of ex b-teamers who failed to reach code A level in Starcraft 2 and whom you will never heard anything about. Few ex B teamers ended up doing well, few ex A teamer ended up doing well. That's the reality of Starcraft II. Jaedong doesn't look promising nor terrible, no one can know how good he is going to be in 6 months, and his BW past definitely wouldn't help him getting better sc2 micro/multitask/macro/luck. Both Flash and Jaedong repeated several times that it was a new and different game. That's the correct mindset to have.
Their BW skill probably doesn't help them but their practice mindset does. They know how to practice a lot and how to practice efficiently. That's why some of them will always do well in any game they play.
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On August 06 2012 21:21 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:16 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 Kommander wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Shock710 wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 aRyuujin wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Chenz wrote:On August 06 2012 21:03 shineq wrote:I'm kinda sad now, I wanted to see the Kespa players do well  Reality is still in the tournament, and he's actually quite good. If a KeSPA player would have a decent shot in this tournament, it's him. sad to see Light not in this, he's one of the best kespa players at sc2. lights fangirl is sooo pretty + Show Spoiler + Ahh, Lightgirl. Light should marry her, seriously. i would in a sec, pretty like that and loves starcraft 0_0 <3 <3 <3 TBH, she looks like hwasin :S i thought it was a well know fact and hwasin is sexy
Hwasin was more feminime than most of his fangirls.
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What I find funny is what people said that TBLS and other top BW pros are naturally gifted at RTS game so they will dominate SC2 too. The only thing we know now is that they are gifted at BW not other games. We can't be so sure that they will dominate. Other players from Kespa may replace them.
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Easy liquidbet points 
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On August 06 2012 21:22 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:12 setzer wrote:On August 06 2012 21:06 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
welcome to sc2 where there are 200x more variables you have to keep in mind compared to BW...
gotta tech to infestors faster... and not good broods on antiga...
nonetheless mechanics were spot on as expected. Maybe you can explain how the former BW b-team pros couldn't handle 200x less variables in BW? They're a lot of ex b-teamers who failed to reach code A level in Starcraft 2 and whom you will never heard anything about. Few ex B teamers ended up doing well, few ex A teamer ended up doing well. That's the reality of Starcraft II. Jaedong doesn't look promising nor terrible, no one can know how good he is going to be in 6 months, and his BW past definitely wouldn't help him getting better sc2 micro/multitask/macro/luck. Both Flash and Jaedong repeated several times that it was a new and different game. That's the correct mindset to have.
Pretty sure anyone who played Brood War extensively would be a hell of a lot better than anyone who didn't prior to playing sc2. His BW past absolutely would help, but it doesn't mean that it will shoot him to the top of the sc2 scene either.
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On August 06 2012 21:24 MrMercuG wrote:Easy liquidbet points
i liquidbet with my HEART T_T
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On August 06 2012 21:20 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:20 Eurytos wrote:On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Correct me If i'm mistaken but in game 2 the probable reason why JD decided to go roaches was because Ling, bane composition alone would not be cost efficient. Having be on equal bases with terran, you need to trade cost efficiently which cannot be done with ling bane against MMM. With decent micro good baneling hits are very rare hence the need of roaches to continue dealing damage when the bio force is kiting. Hope this explains. I thought it also was a larva-issue, not sure though.
Yeah i agree that larvae was a factor too as 3 base meant not as much larvae for zerg. Basically i think that the concept when behind or on equal bases with T or P you need to trade as efficiently as possible (use less larvae, less gas/minerals) to kill opposing army. But in game 2 infestor transition wasn't possible so roach ling bane > pure ling bane at that moment.
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I'm sad
But not surprised. This is good for JD. You wanna be the best you play the best and this experience is hugely important especially when he goes back to playing Kespa players. PL finals more important for me right now 
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On August 06 2012 21:25 Shock710 wrote:i liquidbet with my HEART T_T
Yeah me too I guess I need to stop doing that T.T
Ah well still a nice day of games, just wish JD would have advanced, first time in a while that I'm happy about double elim.
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On August 06 2012 21:17 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:08 TheDougler wrote:Alright, so I'm gonna be asking this question a bunch over the coming months, and I figure tonight is a good night to start asking: Poll: Has the Elephant been slain tonight?Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer. (58) 58% No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene (32) 32% Not yet, but it's looking like it will be. (10) 10% 100 total votes Your vote: Has the Elephant been slain tonight? (Vote): No, give them six months and they will dominate the scene
(Vote): Yes, if GSL pro gaming is a farce these games would have been closer.
(Vote): Not yet, but it's looking like it will be.
I don't think it is a good poll. The gsl competition is not a farce, but that doesn't mean the kespa players won't dominate in like 6 months or so. The point is that the potential of these people is unknown at this moment. If we still see games like this in another 3 months, I might begin to think there is no elephant (dependent on player of course). Personally i still think kespaplayers playing sc2 will give an upward force in terms of overall skill level. Does that mean i think there is an elephant? not necessarily. Just an increase in population (of progamers) should give a rise in level. I feel this poll is too back and white. Edit: lol @ map balance whine
As others and myself have said, the poll is black and white because the Elephant in the Room concept is black and white. The third option of "not yet but it's looking like it will be" is a bit of grey area I added. The question is whether or not KeSPA players will dominate the scene eventually as that article suggests. If you go to TL Final Edits the summary of that article is "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce. Here's why." Personally, I don't think that is the case. I think eventually KeSPA players will be on the same level as the GSL guys, but not generally better than them and therefore GSL Progaming is not a farce. We'll see though, this was just the first night of this poll.
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On August 06 2012 21:22 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Just stop already. You were frigging exaggerating as hell. There are very well moments where playing this Roach/Ling/Bling is somewhat appropriate, and in this game it was okay. Considering that JD was rather behind already and that Alive did play very well it wasn't too terrible. But that's just one thing. Your pathetic "even gold leaguers[...]". Just stop. Those statements are bad and you should feel bad. By the way, what's your league? I'm masters, I really think his decision making was subpar, he built like 40 lings after the failed bust, maybe he thought a push was coming I dunno, he shouldn't have built roaches against rine marauder vac and I don't know how you can justify this as they are objectively bad against alive's unit comp, the gold league comment was low I agree but I don't feel bad for having a different opinion to you
You do realize that JD lost the game with his failed ling bust, right? It doesn't matter what he makes after that, the game was practically over. That game also showed exactly the area that JD needs to improve, which is to have a very strong mind games in SC2. (See, Nestea). Alive baited JD into an all-in with his early marine squad, and JD fell right into it.
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alive may not be very famous, but he sure is one of the better Korean terrans out there
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No suprising results today. Didn't watch any of the matches so don't know how good they were but reading through this thread (skipping the common whine&bitch posts ofc) it seems to have been pretty good showings from all.
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On August 06 2012 21:23 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:22 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On August 06 2012 21:14 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:12 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:10 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:09 Aeceus wrote:On August 06 2012 21:07 mememolly wrote:On August 06 2012 21:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 06 2012 21:04 mememolly wrote:
roaches are probably the worst unit to build there, even gold leaguers know this, sad to watch, BW mechanics but gold league unit comp and builds and execution Just stop posting please. why? because I have a different opinion to you? No because you are wrong. how is it wrong? just saying something is wrong or telling someone to go away isn't exactly convincing Like 10 other people are telling you why its wrong, look at them plz. errr, one other person told me to "go away" and you said that roaches are good in JD's situation in g2 without explaining why, plz explain how roaches are good against rine marauder and medivac Just stop already. You were frigging exaggerating as hell. There are very well moments where playing this Roach/Ling/Bling is somewhat appropriate, and in this game it was okay. Considering that JD was rather behind already and that Alive did play very well it wasn't too terrible. But that's just one thing. Your pathetic "even gold leaguers[...]". Just stop. Those statements are bad and you should feel bad. By the way, what's your league? I'm masters, I really think his decision making was subpar, he built like 40 lings after the failed bust, maybe he thought a push was coming I dunno, he shouldn't have built roaches against rine marauder vac and I don't know how you can justify this as they are objectively bad against alive's unit comp, the gold league comment was low I agree but I don't feel bad for having a different opinion to you i really dislike this "my rank is" kinda thing when debating, u should settle it the old bw way "1V1 LETS GO BITCH GOOGOGO" lol that was the best
To be fair he was asked what league.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hePIO.jpg)
