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On July 17 2012 19:01 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 18:58 Thrombozyt wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 Hassybaby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 Hassybaby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 Chantastic wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. I mean I really hate to balance whine, but really, how could he have engaged that better? An actual concave instead of being in a ball? then the zealot/archons do way more damage The archons, who have splash, do more damage to a line as opposed to the ball. And the Zealots don't get a surround but do more damage too Makes sense Zealots do more dmg to a concave, because the line-ish formation has a greater surface. Archons do less dmg vs a concave. The dmg recieved is probably equal between ball and concave, but the damage dealt and the mobility (due to no surround) is better for the concave. Though the concave is way harder/impossible to maintain during a retreat / kiting. Therefore it's a net loss. The archons are the real damage dealers in that army And the kiting point is moot when Jjakji stood there taking all the hits for the first 10 secs of the fight, only retreating when he lost more than half his army. You either kite from the start, or you spread out for ma DPS for your units/minimal DPS for his. He tried to do both
Once he had emp those templars he should have stutter step immediately that's way more effective than a stupid concave which screams: hit me hit me...
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On July 17 2012 18:58 Thrillz wrote:
I hate to "balance whine" but T lategame needs reworking. Hopefully HotS addresses this,
HotS is just Blizzard ramming mech down terran throats =(
"We heard you can't use mech in all matchups! So now only use mech in all matchups!"
Well to be fair I love the battle hellion idea. Warhound is still so meh. If we were all interested in a-move units the collosus and roach wouldn't be continually voted as most boring units in the game.
Units like Oracle, Battle hellion, Viper and MShipCore are totally in the right direction. Speed Hydra, Warhound, regen Reaper and Tempest all seem like silly units =S
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On July 17 2012 19:03 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 18:58 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:57 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 pdd wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. He didn't have enough Ghosts and didn't use the EMPs with his reinforcing ghosts. Had he landed EMPs on those Archons with his reinforcing Ghosts he would have been able to push the Toss army back. Wolf and Khaldor talk about the obs being killed as if it's a bad thing, but Creator losing observers in fact won him the game, it was not anything else, the lack of mules meant that Jjakji had a smaller army supply, he WON the battle, but lost the game due to scanning observers, creator definetely lost more in that engagement. every top T tries to snipe every obs. A low amount of scvs resulted indeed on a shittier economy but it didn't matter in the engagement :'( I know that they do, generally it's a good idea, but not when you have 50 scvs on 3 bases which is jjakji's go to style, he doesn't like making more than 50 ish scvs and maxes out from there, I think creator meant to feed him those obs. I am nearly 100% sure the lack of mules lost him that game. an other point is that creator used a build which was greedier than the safe standard play from Jjakji. that doesn't help :'(
Jjakji needs someone to teach him how important workers are, it's not the first time I see him lose due to small amount of workers made, in fact it's a common thing for him, he lost against Parting this way despite roflstomping him each and every battle, eventually he lost because he had no econ, harassing him makes it even worse because he doesn't remake lost scvs either, at least he didn't vs Parting.
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BOMBER FIGHTINGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On July 17 2012 19:05 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 19:03 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:58 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:57 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 pdd wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. He didn't have enough Ghosts and didn't use the EMPs with his reinforcing ghosts. Had he landed EMPs on those Archons with his reinforcing Ghosts he would have been able to push the Toss army back. Wolf and Khaldor talk about the obs being killed as if it's a bad thing, but Creator losing observers in fact won him the game, it was not anything else, the lack of mules meant that Jjakji had a smaller army supply, he WON the battle, but lost the game due to scanning observers, creator definetely lost more in that engagement. every top T tries to snipe every obs. A low amount of scvs resulted indeed on a shittier economy but it didn't matter in the engagement :'( I know that they do, generally it's a good idea, but not when you have 50 scvs on 3 bases which is jjakji's go to style, he doesn't like making more than 50 ish scvs and maxes out from there, I think creator meant to feed him those obs. I am nearly 100% sure the lack of mules lost him that game. an other point is that creator used a build which was greedier than the safe standard play from Jjakji. that doesn't help :'( Jjakji needs someone to teach him how important workers are, it's not the first time I see him lose due to small amount of workers made, in fact it's a common thing for him, he lost against Parting this way despite roflstomping him each and every battle, eventually he lost because he had no econ, harassing him makes it even worse because he doesn't remake lost scvs either, at least he didn't vs Parting.
It makes no sense to have less than 70 workers, especially when he spends so many scans all the time. There's no way of justifying that. Why has nobody told the guy?!?
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i also think jjakji needed more marines believe it or not, he just needed more dps marauders do nothing vs zealot archon
really risky getting a lot of marines though because if you get the emps off you can do really well but if 1-2 good storms hit...
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TvT has always been a great match up.
1939+
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On July 17 2012 19:04 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 19:01 Hassybaby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:58 Thrombozyt wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 Hassybaby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 Hassybaby wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 Chantastic wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. I mean I really hate to balance whine, but really, how could he have engaged that better? An actual concave instead of being in a ball? then the zealot/archons do way more damage The archons, who have splash, do more damage to a line as opposed to the ball. And the Zealots don't get a surround but do more damage too Makes sense Zealots do more dmg to a concave, because the line-ish formation has a greater surface. Archons do less dmg vs a concave. The dmg recieved is probably equal between ball and concave, but the damage dealt and the mobility (due to no surround) is better for the concave. Though the concave is way harder/impossible to maintain during a retreat / kiting. Therefore it's a net loss. The archons are the real damage dealers in that army And the kiting point is moot when Jjakji stood there taking all the hits for the first 10 secs of the fight, only retreating when he lost more than half his army. You either kite from the start, or you spread out for ma DPS for your units/minimal DPS for his. He tried to do both Once he had emp those templars he should have stutter step immediately that's way more effective than a stupid concave which screams: hit me hit me...
Which he didn't. he stood there and was all "meh I got this....CRAP I DON'T GOT THIS BETTER START MICROING NOW"
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On July 17 2012 19:07 Thobrik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 19:05 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 19:03 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:58 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:57 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 pdd wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. He didn't have enough Ghosts and didn't use the EMPs with his reinforcing ghosts. Had he landed EMPs on those Archons with his reinforcing Ghosts he would have been able to push the Toss army back. Wolf and Khaldor talk about the obs being killed as if it's a bad thing, but Creator losing observers in fact won him the game, it was not anything else, the lack of mules meant that Jjakji had a smaller army supply, he WON the battle, but lost the game due to scanning observers, creator definetely lost more in that engagement. every top T tries to snipe every obs. A low amount of scvs resulted indeed on a shittier economy but it didn't matter in the engagement :'( I know that they do, generally it's a good idea, but not when you have 50 scvs on 3 bases which is jjakji's go to style, he doesn't like making more than 50 ish scvs and maxes out from there, I think creator meant to feed him those obs. I am nearly 100% sure the lack of mules lost him that game. an other point is that creator used a build which was greedier than the safe standard play from Jjakji. that doesn't help :'( Jjakji needs someone to teach him how important workers are, it's not the first time I see him lose due to small amount of workers made, in fact it's a common thing for him, he lost against Parting this way despite roflstomping him each and every battle, eventually he lost because he had no econ, harassing him makes it even worse because he doesn't remake lost scvs either, at least he didn't vs Parting. It makes no sense to have less than 70 workers, especially when he spends so many scans all the time. There's no way of justifying that. Why has nobody told the guy?!?
Pretty sure Byun never ever gets more then 65 workers in his TvP, and builds a bunch of OC's to drop mules to compensate for this.
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Is it really dead there today? They haven't showed anyone in seating so far..
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Oh man a sick TvT Gumiho vs Bomber not sure who to root for =/
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On July 17 2012 19:07 Thobrik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 19:05 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 19:03 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:58 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:57 sAsImre wrote:On July 17 2012 18:54 IshinShishi wrote:On July 17 2012 18:52 pdd wrote:On July 17 2012 18:50 mith652 wrote:
EMPed all the HTs, half the archons, snipes the colossus straight away, even on upgrades, supplies about level, still gets rolled. He didn't have enough Ghosts and didn't use the EMPs with his reinforcing ghosts. Had he landed EMPs on those Archons with his reinforcing Ghosts he would have been able to push the Toss army back. Wolf and Khaldor talk about the obs being killed as if it's a bad thing, but Creator losing observers in fact won him the game, it was not anything else, the lack of mules meant that Jjakji had a smaller army supply, he WON the battle, but lost the game due to scanning observers, creator definetely lost more in that engagement. every top T tries to snipe every obs. A low amount of scvs resulted indeed on a shittier economy but it didn't matter in the engagement :'( I know that they do, generally it's a good idea, but not when you have 50 scvs on 3 bases which is jjakji's go to style, he doesn't like making more than 50 ish scvs and maxes out from there, I think creator meant to feed him those obs. I am nearly 100% sure the lack of mules lost him that game. an other point is that creator used a build which was greedier than the safe standard play from Jjakji. that doesn't help :'( Jjakji needs someone to teach him how important workers are, it's not the first time I see him lose due to small amount of workers made, in fact it's a common thing for him, he lost against Parting this way despite roflstomping him each and every battle, eventually he lost because he had no econ, harassing him makes it even worse because he doesn't remake lost scvs either, at least he didn't vs Parting. It makes no sense to have less than 70 workers, especially when he spends so many scans all the time. There's no way of justifying that. Why has nobody told the guy?!?
Agreed, sub-70 workers is actually the extreme terran lategame where you're already super entrenched and switching into the terran death army. If you're not already floating money and making battlecruisers then you should be 70-ish workers.
As a Jjakji fan, I've too often seen him lose an army without the economy to support a re-build.
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On July 17 2012 19:08 mcmartini wrote:
Is it really dead there today? They haven't showed anyone in seating so far..
code a is almost always dead unless boxer or drg or mvp is playing
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Is the stream dead? It just dissapeared for me.
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a good tvter would always check that proxy location with a marine.
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On July 17 2012 19:10 StarcraftNerd1547 wrote:
Is the stream dead? It just dissapeared for me.
Same here. I can't connect to the streaming server.
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EPT
