On June 22 2012 22:34 Dexington wrote: You know something's wrong when even Slayers isn't using any Terrans.
They also used 3 protoss, I guess protoss is imba?
Seriously people balance whine way way too much...
They don't have any Zergs except for Coca, so it's not like they have much of a choice. Whether it's due to metagame or balance reasons, it's pretty stupid trying to deny that Zerg is by far the most powerful race right now, and it's pretty damn stupid to call people 'balance whiners' over this.
Except statistically then it doesn't mean anything.
Slayers didn't play Terrans, therefore Zerg is imba... okay?
Sure, Slayers played their top Zerg player, I don't see how that makes Zerg imba. Pre-patch they would've probably played CoCa too.
I'm not saying whether or not Zerg is stronger than Terran (right now, the metagame definitely seems to favour Zerg), but that doesn't automatically suggest imbalance, just like the use of 1-1-1 didn't suggest imbalance previously.
I do think Zerg is a bit stronger right now, but not nearly as much as most, and also think that the "statistics" people use are extremely misleading and misinformed.
How exactly is the statistics misleading or misinformed if it simply is statsistics? Also, when 1-1-1 was at it best it definitely suggested imbalance. Seemingly with your definitions imbalance cannot even exist.
Anyway, more on topic, sad to see slayers lose. I hope they'll get far because I want to see ThorZaIN in the GSTL ^.^.
I do not think 1-1-1 was imbalanced, it may have been strong in the metagame at the time. While there were some minor protoss buffs to deal with 1-1-1, protoss typically adjusted through learning how to play a style that could more often than not stop 1-1-1 if scouted.
The statistics are misleading because you are making huge assumptions. The fact that Slayers played 0 terrans does not automatically suggest that zerg is imbalanced.
And yes, statistics are being abused. Because you chose one specific tournament that isn't necessarily indicative of race inequality as a whole. You didn't use Code S as a balance measurement, which I believe is more reliable.
Imbalance can exist. It exists within data showing that with an exceptionally large sample size of games at the top level (> 300 - 400 GSL Code S games, maybe include GSTL), one race has a consistently higher win % than the other two. It cannot statistically be reflected by one tournament consisting solely of BO1s (which is what these are).
Qualitatively I think Zerg has an advantage in the current metagame, but statistics do not show this.
Im sorry, but 1-1-1 was imba. Terran needed a 5secs rax nerf and protoss got the immortal buff.
The fights werent even close. Even when a toss cleared the tanks, for example, banshees or marines killed everything.
It had like 90% win ratio.
5 sec rax nerf and minor immortal buff doesn't lead to a significant decline in win %. It definitely helped, but a lot of it was due to evolution in the metagame. I don't know if there are viable strategies for Terran to counter what Zerg is doing now, but from a qualitative perspective (not using any statistics), it has been a month, and we really need more time to see if the case (if something develops on Terran's side that will significantly help).
On June 22 2012 22:34 Dexington wrote: You know something's wrong when even Slayers isn't using any Terrans.
They also used 3 protoss, I guess protoss is imba?
Seriously people balance whine way way too much...
They don't have any Zergs except for Coca, so it's not like they have much of a choice. Whether it's due to metagame or balance reasons, it's pretty stupid trying to deny that Zerg is by far the most powerful race right now, and it's pretty damn stupid to call people 'balance whiners' over this.
Except statistically then it doesn't mean anything.
Slayers didn't play Terrans, therefore Zerg is imba... okay?
Sure, Slayers played their top Zerg player, I don't see how that makes Zerg imba. Pre-patch they would've probably played CoCa too.
I'm not saying whether or not Zerg is stronger than Terran (right now, the metagame definitely seems to favour Zerg), but that doesn't automatically suggest imbalance, just like the use of 1-1-1 didn't suggest imbalance previously.
I do think Zerg is a bit stronger right now, but not nearly as much as most, and also think that the "statistics" people use are extremely misleading and misinformed.
How exactly is the statistics misleading or misinformed if it simply is statsistics? Also, when 1-1-1 was at it best it definitely suggested imbalance. Seemingly with your definitions imbalance cannot even exist.
Anyway, more on topic, sad to see slayers lose. I hope they'll get far because I want to see ThorZaIN in the GSTL ^.^.
I do not think 1-1-1 was imbalanced, it may have been strong in the metagame at the time. While there were some minor protoss buffs to deal with 1-1-1, protoss typically adjusted through learning how to play a style that could more often than not stop 1-1-1 if scouted.
The statistics are misleading because you are making huge assumptions. The fact that Slayers played 0 terrans does not automatically suggest that zerg is imbalanced.
And yes, statistics are being abused. Because you chose one specific tournament that isn't necessarily indicative of race inequality as a whole. You didn't use Code S as a balance measurement, which I believe is more reliable.
Imbalance can exist. It exists within data showing that with an exceptionally large sample size of games at the top level (> 300 - 400 GSL Code S games, maybe include GSTL), one race has a consistently higher win % than the other two. It cannot statistically be reflected by one tournament consisting solely of BO1s (which is what these are).
Qualitatively I think Zerg has an advantage in the current metagame, but statistics do not show this.
Im sorry, but 1-1-1 was imba. Terran needed a 5secs rax nerf and protoss got the immortal buff.
The fights werent even close. Even when a toss cleared the tanks, for example, banshees or marines killed everything.
It had like 90% win ratio.
you do know the 5sec build time was in relation to the 11/11 proxy rax right?..but who fact checks anymore these days.
On June 22 2012 21:34 Vaelone wrote: Todays MVP Dustin Browder.
dont be silly,he wouldnt of forcefielded anyway if he wasnt attacking the rocks, DRGs runby won him the game. Stop overplaying the destructable rocks
The runby did absolutely nothing except force warp-ins at the natural. If puzzle wasn't caught so off guard, with blink AND forcefields, he had an amazing chance to kill that roach army. Stop underplaying the destructible rocks
On June 22 2012 22:34 Dexington wrote: You know something's wrong when even Slayers isn't using any Terrans.
They also used 3 protoss, I guess protoss is imba?
Seriously people balance whine way way too much...
They don't have any Zergs except for Coca, so it's not like they have much of a choice. Whether it's due to metagame or balance reasons, it's pretty stupid trying to deny that Zerg is by far the most powerful race right now, and it's pretty damn stupid to call people 'balance whiners' over this.
Except statistically then it doesn't mean anything.
Slayers didn't play Terrans, therefore Zerg is imba... okay?
Sure, Slayers played their top Zerg player, I don't see how that makes Zerg imba. Pre-patch they would've probably played CoCa too.
I'm not saying whether or not Zerg is stronger than Terran (right now, the metagame definitely seems to favour Zerg), but that doesn't automatically suggest imbalance, just like the use of 1-1-1 didn't suggest imbalance previously.
I do think Zerg is a bit stronger right now, but not nearly as much as most, and also think that the "statistics" people use are extremely misleading and misinformed.
How exactly is the statistics misleading or misinformed if it simply is statsistics? Also, when 1-1-1 was at it best it definitely suggested imbalance. Seemingly with your definitions imbalance cannot even exist.
Anyway, more on topic, sad to see slayers lose. I hope they'll get far because I want to see ThorZaIN in the GSTL ^.^.
I do not think 1-1-1 was imbalanced, it may have been strong in the metagame at the time. While there were some minor protoss buffs to deal with 1-1-1, protoss typically adjusted through learning how to play a style that could more often than not stop 1-1-1 if scouted.
The statistics are misleading because you are making huge assumptions. The fact that Slayers played 0 terrans does not automatically suggest that zerg is imbalanced.
And yes, statistics are being abused. Because you chose one specific tournament that isn't necessarily indicative of race inequality as a whole. You didn't use Code S as a balance measurement, which I believe is more reliable.
Imbalance can exist. It exists within data showing that with an exceptionally large sample size of games at the top level (> 300 - 400 GSL Code S games, maybe include GSTL), one race has a consistently higher win % than the other two. It cannot statistically be reflected by one tournament consisting solely of BO1s (which is what these are).
Qualitatively I think Zerg has an advantage in the current metagame, but statistics do not show this.
Im sorry, but 1-1-1 was imba. Terran needed a 5secs rax nerf and protoss got the immortal buff.
The fights werent even close. Even when a toss cleared the tanks, for example, banshees or marines killed everything.
It had like 90% win ratio.
you do know the 5sec build time was in relation to the 11/11 proxy rax right?..but who fact checks anymore these days.
hey dude orbital delay=less mining early=weaker bitbybit
Finally my internet works. .___. Internet died after Coca won, I see that Puzzle was doing pretty well again, too bad they couldn't come up with a win. GL Slayers! ^^ And with MMA slumping so hard, it's pretty wise to not send MMA out as the ace, he can easily be sniped by a Toss and being a Zerg specialist, top notch MMA vs top notch DRG, MMA barely takes it, but with the MMA slump/DRG in perfect form, DRG will steam roll him easily. MMA is pretty good still, I think they should just send him in as the first player to get a win or two rather than not using him at all.
On June 22 2012 22:34 Dexington wrote: You know something's wrong when even Slayers isn't using any Terrans.
They also used 3 protoss, I guess protoss is imba?
Seriously people balance whine way way too much...
They don't have any Zergs except for Coca, so it's not like they have much of a choice. Whether it's due to metagame or balance reasons, it's pretty stupid trying to deny that Zerg is by far the most powerful race right now, and it's pretty damn stupid to call people 'balance whiners' over this.
Except statistically then it doesn't mean anything.
Slayers didn't play Terrans, therefore Zerg is imba... okay?
Sure, Slayers played their top Zerg player, I don't see how that makes Zerg imba. Pre-patch they would've probably played CoCa too.
I'm not saying whether or not Zerg is stronger than Terran (right now, the metagame definitely seems to favour Zerg), but that doesn't automatically suggest imbalance, just like the use of 1-1-1 didn't suggest imbalance previously.
I do think Zerg is a bit stronger right now, but not nearly as much as most, and also think that the "statistics" people use are extremely misleading and misinformed.
How exactly is the statistics misleading or misinformed if it simply is statsistics? Also, when 1-1-1 was at it best it definitely suggested imbalance. Seemingly with your definitions imbalance cannot even exist.
Anyway, more on topic, sad to see slayers lose. I hope they'll get far because I want to see ThorZaIN in the GSTL ^.^.
I do not think 1-1-1 was imbalanced, it may have been strong in the metagame at the time. While there were some minor protoss buffs to deal with 1-1-1, protoss typically adjusted through learning how to play a style that could more often than not stop 1-1-1 if scouted.
The statistics are misleading because you are making huge assumptions. The fact that Slayers played 0 terrans does not automatically suggest that zerg is imbalanced.
And yes, statistics are being abused. Because you chose one specific tournament that isn't necessarily indicative of race inequality as a whole. You didn't use Code S as a balance measurement, which I believe is more reliable.
Imbalance can exist. It exists within data showing that with an exceptionally large sample size of games at the top level (> 300 - 400 GSL Code S games, maybe include GSTL), one race has a consistently higher win % than the other two. It cannot statistically be reflected by one tournament consisting solely of BO1s (which is what these are).
Qualitatively I think Zerg has an advantage in the current metagame, but statistics do not show this.
Im sorry, but 1-1-1 was imba. Terran needed a 5secs rax nerf and protoss got the immortal buff.
The fights werent even close. Even when a toss cleared the tanks, for example, banshees or marines killed everything.
It had like 90% win ratio.
5 sec rax nerf and minor immortal buff doesn't lead to a significant decline in win %. It definitely helped, but a lot of it was due to evolution in the metagame. I don't know if there are viable strategies for Terran to counter what Zerg is doing now, but from a qualitative perspective (not using any statistics), it has been a month, and we really need more time to see if the case (if something develops on Terran's side that will significantly help).
5 sec rax is extremely relevant, because it gives protoss enough time to scout the strategy. The problem with 1-1-1 wasn't just that it was a strong composition, but also that scouting it was impossible so protoss was blind every game. MC decided to just blind counter it every time and that was actually the only way to beat it when used by a competent player.
EPT
