On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
I'm just going to say that your numbers are incorrect, but I'm not going to argue about the GSTL game either way.
On June 04 2012 07:10 noddy wrote: The GSTL finals happened ages ago.. no matter how much people on TL argue nothing's gonna change. Even with the regame, ST had enough chances to kill MarineKing back then. They were simply not good enough.
Nobody said our arguing would change the past, so please refrain from pulling out condescending comments out from thin air. I just find it laughable when people still try to argue that the re-game decision was actually correct.
You sound a tad more condescending than he is.
Perhaps, but unlike him, the one who tried to personify the "mature mediator" and tried to promote the wise words that "arguing wouldn't solve anything" even though our motives were completely divergent from those that he tacked onto us, I, along with many others, have always had a solid argument behind our displeasure over those who support GOM's decision, we didn't come out of thin air with our words.
On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
I'm just going to say that your numbers are incorrect, but I'm not going to argue about the GSTL game either way.
On June 04 2012 07:10 noddy wrote: The GSTL finals happened ages ago.. no matter how much people on TL argue nothing's gonna change. Even with the regame, ST had enough chances to kill MarineKing back then. They were simply not good enough.
Nobody said our arguing would change the past, so please refrain from pulling out condescending comments out from thin air. I just find it laughable when people still try to argue that the re-game decision was actually correct.
You sound a tad more condescending than he is.
P.S.: if the numbers are off, the difference would be insiginificant to the basis of my argument anyways.
On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
Again, like I said, half of the protoss army was not in position to attack. I think vikings can kite archons and take advantage of the defensive position with ledges and everything. There was no storm on the field except for templars in PartinG's base. If you want to say storm is available at the front, MarineKing might as well have built up an army already. I think PartinG was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates because MarineKing put on constant pressure and it was a series of trades before PartinG came out slightly ahead. Again, can you consider some of my arguments on positioning and the situation in the game rather than flat out looking at the tech tree and the supposedly potential power of a full protoss army.
The funny thing is, if I take positioning into account, it would actually prove my argument even more, rather than discredit it as you claim. "Half the protoss army was not in position to attack" I didn't realize that being outside the ramp of your opponent's ramp on Entombed and 10 seconds away from main terran production was considered "not in position to attack". In addition, there WERE at least two templar with storm on the field, not exactly sure why you're claiming there weren't...
Also, I truly don't understand why you're using the fact that "Parting was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates already" to support your argument. Even if that were true, that would simply mean that his warpgates were already speeding up on cooldown and is in an even better position than I previously claimed. If you are trying to make the argument that he has already used up his chronoboost energy on his warpgates and will be running out, please remember that Parting is on four nexus at this point. At that point in the game, Parting had almost every single essential upgrade already completed so at that point, excess chronoboost energy would definitely be present and ready for use. Again, I'd really like it if you considered the fact that with no ghosts out, only 4 vikings, and not a single medivac, terran really has no answer for a protoss army fully equipped with archons, a collosus, and at least two templar with storm. Sure, vikings can kite the archons but all Parting would have to do is move his collosus to the right/left flank of his army where the vikings would have to either risk getting hit by archon splash, or make a complete arc to circumvent the anti-air of Parting, which would take ages
Man... it feels inevitible that MarineKing will win a GSL at some point. Providing he dodges zergs; that seems to be his weakest match-up by a significant margin. Same as me actually
On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
Again, like I said, half of the protoss army was not in position to attack. I think vikings can kite archons and take advantage of the defensive position with ledges and everything. There was no storm on the field except for templars in PartinG's base. If you want to say storm is available at the front, MarineKing might as well have built up an army already. I think PartinG was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates because MarineKing put on constant pressure and it was a series of trades before PartinG came out slightly ahead. Again, can you consider some of my arguments on positioning and the situation in the game rather than flat out looking at the tech tree and the supposedly potential power of a full protoss army.
The funny thing is, if I take positioning into account, it would actually prove my argument even more, rather than discredit it as you claim. "Half the protoss army was not in position to attack" I didn't realize that being outside the ramp of your opponent's ramp on Entombed and 10 seconds away from main terran production was considered "not in position to attack". In addition, there WERE at least two templar with storm on the field, not exactly sure why you're claiming there weren't...
Also, I truly don't understand why you're using the fact that "Parting was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates already" to support your argument. Even if that were true, that would simply mean that his warpgates were already speeding up on cooldown and is in an even better position than I previously claimed. If you are trying to make the argument that he has already used up his chronoboost energy on his warpgates and will be running out, please remember that Parting is on four nexus at this point. At that point in the game, Parting had almost every single essential upgrade already completed so at that point, excess chronoboost energy would definitely be present and ready for use. Again, I'd really like it if you considered the fact that with no ghosts out, only 4 vikings, and not a single medivac, terran really has no answer for a protoss army fully equipped with archons, a collosus, and at least two templar with storm. Sure, vikings can kite the archons but all Parting would have to do is move his collosus to the right/left flank of his army where the vikings would have to either risk getting hit by archon splash, or make a complete arc to circumvent the anti-air of Parting, which would take ages
Here, go watch this again before you keep out spouting nonsense. http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/314284087. 2:29:32. No archons on the field. Huge engagement and the templars are most likely on the other side of the map to parry off drops because if that wasn't their purpose, they'd be with the main army in that huge fight. There are also no colossi on the field. There's 6 vikings to 1 warp prism; I think you know how that turns out. Now here's the huge assumption that may make or break the argument. In previous production tab screens, MKP was producing about 7 marauders and 6 marines at the same time. IF I can assume the same, I don't think MKP will die, despite maybe losing the outer barracks.
Actually, forget what I said about the templars. In fact, I KNOW the templar were in the base because in previous screens, 6 templar was not in the composition and he just warped in them to stock up energy on them so he could defend. You can see this during 2:28:42 that only one templar is on the map. Now knowing that he just warped templars, I highly doubt he has many more available warpgates. My stance is simply that MarineKing was not dead at that point in time, and he wasn't because the templar were no where close to his base. Even if they warped into archons and walked to MKP's base, it would take a good amount of time and we all know how well MMM does against gateway units. You can also see before the camera cuts to the audience there's only about 3-4 zealots left and then there was a lot more when the screen came back. I am under the assumption PartinG just warped those in with his warp prism as well.
I can still understand if you change your mind because it was a very, very crazy game.
On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
Again, like I said, half of the protoss army was not in position to attack. I think vikings can kite archons and take advantage of the defensive position with ledges and everything. There was no storm on the field except for templars in PartinG's base. If you want to say storm is available at the front, MarineKing might as well have built up an army already. I think PartinG was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates because MarineKing put on constant pressure and it was a series of trades before PartinG came out slightly ahead. Again, can you consider some of my arguments on positioning and the situation in the game rather than flat out looking at the tech tree and the supposedly potential power of a full protoss army.
The funny thing is, if I take positioning into account, it would actually prove my argument even more, rather than discredit it as you claim. "Half the protoss army was not in position to attack" I didn't realize that being outside the ramp of your opponent's ramp on Entombed and 10 seconds away from main terran production was considered "not in position to attack". In addition, there WERE at least two templar with storm on the field, not exactly sure why you're claiming there weren't...
Also, I truly don't understand why you're using the fact that "Parting was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates already" to support your argument. Even if that were true, that would simply mean that his warpgates were already speeding up on cooldown and is in an even better position than I previously claimed. If you are trying to make the argument that he has already used up his chronoboost energy on his warpgates and will be running out, please remember that Parting is on four nexus at this point. At that point in the game, Parting had almost every single essential upgrade already completed so at that point, excess chronoboost energy would definitely be present and ready for use. Again, I'd really like it if you considered the fact that with no ghosts out, only 4 vikings, and not a single medivac, terran really has no answer for a protoss army fully equipped with archons, a collosus, and at least two templar with storm. Sure, vikings can kite the archons but all Parting would have to do is move his collosus to the right/left flank of his army where the vikings would have to either risk getting hit by archon splash, or make a complete arc to circumvent the anti-air of Parting, which would take ages
Here, go watch this again before you keep out spouting nonsense. http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/314284087. 2:29:32. No archons on the field. Huge engagement and the templars are most likely on the other side of the map to parry off drops because if that wasn't their purpose, they'd be with the main army in that huge fight. There are also no colossi on the field. There's 6 vikings to 1 warp prism; I think you know how that turns out. Now here's the huge assumption that may make or break the argument. In previous production tab screens, MKP was producing about 7 marauders and 6 marines at the same time. IF I can assume the same, I don't think MKP will die, despite maybe losing the outer barracks.
Actually, forget what I said about the templars. In fact, I KNOW the templar were in the base because in previous screens, 6 templar was not in the composition and he just warped in them to stock up energy on them so he could defend. You can see this during 2:28:42 that only one templar is on the map. Now knowing that he just warped templars, I highly doubt he has many more available warpgates. My stance is simply that MarineKing was not dead at that point in time, and he wasn't because the templar were no where close to his base. Even if they warped into archons and walked to MKP's base, it would take a good amount of time and we all know how well MMM does against gateway units.
I can still understand if you change your mind because it was a very, very crazy game.
I don't understand why you're trying to argue this, every pro player who gave their opinion on the situation was that Parting had the game won, unless you think you know better than all of them.
not to mention It's a waste of time seeing as how talking about it now changes nothing and it's already been discussed to death.
On June 04 2012 00:49 Waxangel wrote: Justice can wait until another day I guess
If this is about MKP getting regame against Squirtle - MKP was ahead for a good amount of that game. Not far ahead, but supply/army stuff. He had a few bad engagements and lost that lead. Why does Squirtle get any autowin for having the game drop at the moment he was ahead - can't you count on MKP getting some good engagmenets and equilizing? Justice will be Blizzard putting fucking LAN in tournaments.
Tl;DR: Yes Parting did deserve an auto-win there because MKP has a 5% chance of coming back in that terrible position.
Except you left out half the story. Half of the army supply was in the Protoss base, there was one colossus vs. four viking with no anti-air, and that MarineKing had 10+ barracks producing at the same moment. Warpgates were not available as the he just warped in and if worse comes to worse, at the stage of the game (3-4 bases) MarineKing can also pull scvs to cover for the insane damage marines have and still be able to mule his way out. The only thing that happened was that MarineKing was put onto the defensive rather than him having complete map control and trying to break through the protoss' defense. The supply difference was obviously more than you generally expect because of the fact that the protoss just warped a round in.
You also only base everything off of two-dimensional stat lines where you don't consider where the army is, the micro, and many other factors to the game. I'm not necessarily saying that PartinG wouldn't have won the game; I just want to point out that you shouldn't even be arguing about this if you disregard so many possible variables to that game.
No anti-air? There were 3 archons with the army -_- And even if the collosus did die to the FOUR vikings, it would inflict insane damage to the terran army before it died, which would take forever btw with only four vikings.
Yes 10 barracks with 3 of them right next to the protoss army. Parting can also easily chronoboost his warpgates and it would only take 10-15 seconds to warp in a new round of chargelots to reinforce. So what does 7 barracks worth of production mean? It means about 5 marauders and 4 marines, and that's all about 5-15 seconds AFTER the disconnect happened. Tell me, what would 5 marauders and 4 marines do against templar WITH STORM.
I don't think you understand the futility of a terran's situation against templar with no ghosts UNLESS the terran has a bio ball big enough to take down the gateway units and archons by themselves, which in this case MKP does NOT. MKP didn't even have a single medivac. Are you kidding me? Even with MKP's ridiculous micro, his units would take damage just avoiding the storms and all the while chargelots/collosus/archons are closing their distance.
And your suggestion, to send all scvs to buffer, is actually something Parting would INVITE. Any decent terran player can tell you that sending scvs to fight against an army with archons and storm is literally the last thing you ever want to attempt in a starcraft game. Furthermore, even if MKP did manage to make some miraculous hold with all his scvs, do you know how many he would lose in the engagement? Meanwhile, Parting is happily mining off 4 bases with 65-70 probes and would end up with such a massive economic advantage that he would just wait for a couple rounds of units and just move out to deal the killing blow on MKP yet again.
I don't think you should be arguing if YOU'RE going to disregard the weight of some of the factors on the game (templar with storm, archons, scv's useless as a buffer against splash damage)
Again, like I said, half of the protoss army was not in position to attack. I think vikings can kite archons and take advantage of the defensive position with ledges and everything. There was no storm on the field except for templars in PartinG's base. If you want to say storm is available at the front, MarineKing might as well have built up an army already. I think PartinG was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates because MarineKing put on constant pressure and it was a series of trades before PartinG came out slightly ahead. Again, can you consider some of my arguments on positioning and the situation in the game rather than flat out looking at the tech tree and the supposedly potential power of a full protoss army.
The funny thing is, if I take positioning into account, it would actually prove my argument even more, rather than discredit it as you claim. "Half the protoss army was not in position to attack" I didn't realize that being outside the ramp of your opponent's ramp on Entombed and 10 seconds away from main terran production was considered "not in position to attack". In addition, there WERE at least two templar with storm on the field, not exactly sure why you're claiming there weren't...
Also, I truly don't understand why you're using the fact that "Parting was already chronoboosting all of his warpgates already" to support your argument. Even if that were true, that would simply mean that his warpgates were already speeding up on cooldown and is in an even better position than I previously claimed. If you are trying to make the argument that he has already used up his chronoboost energy on his warpgates and will be running out, please remember that Parting is on four nexus at this point. At that point in the game, Parting had almost every single essential upgrade already completed so at that point, excess chronoboost energy would definitely be present and ready for use. Again, I'd really like it if you considered the fact that with no ghosts out, only 4 vikings, and not a single medivac, terran really has no answer for a protoss army fully equipped with archons, a collosus, and at least two templar with storm. Sure, vikings can kite the archons but all Parting would have to do is move his collosus to the right/left flank of his army where the vikings would have to either risk getting hit by archon splash, or make a complete arc to circumvent the anti-air of Parting, which would take ages
Here, go watch this again before you keep out spouting nonsense. http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/314284087. 2:29:32. No archons on the field. Huge engagement and the templars are most likely on the other side of the map to parry off drops because if that wasn't their purpose, they'd be with the main army in that huge fight. There are also no colossi on the field. There's 6 vikings to 1 warp prism; I think you know how that turns out. Now here's the huge assumption that may make or break the argument. In previous production tab screens, MKP was producing about 7 marauders and 6 marines at the same time. IF I can assume the same, I don't think MKP will die, despite maybe losing the outer barracks.
Actually, forget what I said about the templars. In fact, I KNOW the templar were in the base because in previous screens, 6 templar was not in the composition and he just warped in them to stock up energy on them so he could defend. You can see this during 2:28:42 that only one templar is on the map. Now knowing that he just warped templars, I highly doubt he has many more available warpgates. My stance is simply that MarineKing was not dead at that point in time, and he wasn't because the templar were no where close to his base. Even if they warped into archons and walked to MKP's base, it would take a good amount of time and we all know how well MMM does against gateway units.
I can still understand if you change your mind because it was a very, very crazy game.
I don't understand why you're trying to argue this, every pro player who gave their opinion on the situation was that Parting had the game won, unless you think you know better than all of them.
not to mention It's a waste of time seeing as how talking about it now changes nothing and it's already been discussed to death.
Why are you trying to make me feel bad and trying to take pro players to weigh over me because you don't want me to argue. I realize this might not be the most productive thing to do right now but I just want to state out factors, it annoys me just like my argument annoys you when people argue with the wrong information. And again, nothing in this world is really based on necessity anymore, so too many things can be considered a waste of time depending on your values and priorities.
EPT
