did you know if you clicked on the team icons, you're taken to their liquipedia page? haha trippy feature i discovered a few days back that i can use now.
ps - if anyone's asking, these LR threads are meant for SC2 coverage in the SC2 forums. It was agreed back in the BW forums when the split was discussed that it may be better for separate LR threads in each so that flaming is less, and I'm hopeful that BW forums will make their own LR threads for SPL. I'm just providing the SC2 side of things.
but I figured you want the raw link like the other two.
cheers :D the other two are raw links because they don't have TL embeds. :D a TL embed link saves me the trouble of also typing out whose streams they are haha
Khan needs to come up with something in SC2. Woongjin Terran has a lot of potential to wipe the floor with them in SC2 since they have both Coach Ryu (former Slayers coach) and practice with MVP.
On May 26 2012 11:20 Veldril wrote: Khan needs to come up with something in SC2. Woongjin Terran has a lot of potential to wipe the floor with them in SC2 since they have both Coach Ryu (former Slayers coach) and practice with MVP.
wow, they practice with MVP? where did that pop up? if so, Woongin op
On May 26 2012 11:20 Veldril wrote: Khan needs to come up with something in SC2. Woongjin Terran has a lot of potential to wipe the floor with them in SC2 since they have both Coach Ryu (former Slayers coach) and practice with MVP.
you have a source to this? or just some gossip you overheard.
On May 26 2012 11:20 Veldril wrote: Khan needs to come up with something in SC2. Woongjin Terran has a lot of potential to wipe the floor with them in SC2 since they have both Coach Ryu (former Slayers coach) and practice with MVP.
I thought most BW pros don't practice or ask for help from SC2 pros? O_O
MVP said on OTR that he has faced his Woongjin teammates on ladder before off-racing and has never lost. They don't practice together, but they've of course met on the ladder, chatted as friends, etc.
On May 26 2012 11:39 Fionn wrote: MVP said on OTR that he has faced his Woongjin teammates on ladder before off-racing and has never lost. They don't practice together, but they've of course met on the ladder, chatted as friends, etc.
good thing Mvp has a sick offrace, otherwise this wouldn't bode that well haha
Terrible game by JB, engaged at the wrong place at the wrong time. He could have easily salvaged 2 full control groups of units and be patient until Mutas are taken care of.
On May 26 2012 12:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Jangbi with enigmatic PvZ... 3-0's SoO, loses to most else.
SC2 happened, he thought that mutas would be useless but then he realized that BW mutas are actually good!
Mutas are awesome in SC2 ZvP. I still hear lots of QQ over them even after the Phoenix "buff".
not on the same level, you still see muta transitions when people decide to opt for basetrade scenarios in the midgame, but they're not the end all be all unit they used to be in mutaling comps anymore
On May 26 2012 12:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Jangbi with enigmatic PvZ... 3-0's SoO, loses to most else.
SC2 happened, he thought that mutas would be useless but then he realized that BW mutas are actually good!
Mutas are awesome in SC2 ZvP. I still hear lots of QQ over them even after the Phoenix "buff".
Meh scrubs will always QQ.
I still feel like Mutas are less risky in SC2 ZvP. In BW, you had to deal with Corsairs which can get out of control real quick if you can't keep the Corsair count low. But overall, Mutas were better in BW.
On May 26 2012 12:29 tsuxiit wrote: Why does the Korean obs always bring up the diplomacy dialog box at the start of every game? Never understood that.
Gives the fans time during countdown to shout their cheers ^^
That was actually a pretty good game. I expect reality to just 2 base timing in those positions and with the lack of bw practice, but he played out the end game pretty damn well.
I hate to be that Korean-commentator-elitist, but in this case I was forced to pick them. Pokebunny and X are extremely boring, saying little and talking almost exclusively in terms of "Oh, he's dragging the mines now. --Yeah. He has to do something like that to get back into the game. --That's very true."
Listening to the Korean commentating I at least can understand what moves are significant/what kind of tension is in each move, and whatnot. I get a little more analysis, as strange as that may sound when I don't understand the language. I definitely would appreciate some better English casting.
On May 26 2012 13:19 Komentaja wrote: I hate to be that Korean-commentator-elitist, but in this case I was forced to pick them. Pokebunny and X are extremely boring, saying little and talking almost exclusively in terms of "Oh, he's dragging the mines now. --Yeah. He has to do something like that to get back into the game. --That's very true."
Listening to the Korean commentating I at least can understand what moves are significant/what kind of tension is in each move, and whatnot. I get a little more analysis, as strange as that may sound when I don't understand the language. I definitely would appreciate some better English casting.
Pokebunny isn't a professional caster and hasn't played BW in 2 years.
On May 26 2012 13:19 Komentaja wrote: I hate to be that Korean-commentator-elitist, but in this case I was forced to pick them. Pokebunny and X are extremely boring, saying little and talking almost exclusively in terms of "Oh, he's dragging the mines now. --Yeah. He has to do something like that to get back into the game. --That's very true."
Listening to the Korean commentating I at least can understand what moves are significant/what kind of tension is in each move, and whatnot. I get a little more analysis, as strange as that may sound when I don't understand the language. I definitely would appreciate some better English casting.
I only caught the tail end of it but I'm assuming kespa has finally caught with the times, announcing online HD service and 16 : 9 as in TVs soon. Could be wrong though.
On May 26 2012 13:32 eviltomahawk wrote: Woah, HD Proleague is REALLY crisp. I hope there is an alternative for Chrome users like me, since I really don't want to use IE.
Luckily, the standard OGN stream is still alright. Not as bad as the terribad free GOMtv SD stream.
I'm watching it with Chrome on Ubuntu 10.04. It's all good! Thanks EsportsTV~~~~!!!!
star2 games are about to start so this should be up soon. you'll have to download an ognlive plugin and refresh the page a bit, but it's worth it.
Gah this refuses to work for me T.T I installed the plugin... even loaded up disgusting IE and still just an ad followed by a screen with Korean message on it T.T
See i can look at these games in a perspective where i'm just interested in how they all progress. Thing is though i hope other people don't assume this is SC2 at it's best. SC2 has been getting better and better and man the GSL games have been incredible the last few days.
I like how we can see the floundering attempts to play SC2 on a professional level from individuals who barely know the intricacies of the game. It's pretty interesting to see their thought patterns align with most players, even during the very early stages of SC2 meta-game. Though I'm sure having plenty of VODs and other pro tips helps align their thoughts on the use of each unit.
I just find the whole idea of BW<-->SC2 meeting is awesome. Old vs. New.
If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
On May 26 2012 13:43 Rainfall7711 wrote: See i can look at these games in a perspective where i'm just interested in how they all progress. Thing is though i hope other people don't assume this is SC2 at it's best. SC2 has been getting better and better and man the GSL games have been incredible the last few days.
I say we give the BW pros at least one to one/half years of practice before we can criticize or determine if it's "SC2 at it's best". I completely agree with you though, the current GSL players are far better at the moment, but that's expected because of the length of time they've had to play the game compared to players who have played for about one month.
On May 26 2012 13:46 Raskit wrote: If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
On May 26 2012 13:46 Raskit wrote: If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
On May 26 2012 13:46 Raskit wrote: If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
On May 26 2012 13:43 Rainfall7711 wrote: See i can look at these games in a perspective where i'm just interested in how they all progress. Thing is though i hope other people don't assume this is SC2 at it's best. SC2 has been getting better and better and man the GSL games have been incredible the last few days.
I say we give the BW pros at least one to one/half years of practice before we can criticize or determine if it's "SC2 at it's best". I completely agree with you though, the current GSL players are far better at the moment, but that's expected because of the length of time they've had to play the game compared to players who have played for about one month.
Maybe you took my point slightly wrong. I wasn't criticizing them at all. The level they are at is to be expected. What i mean is i hope new people watching get some more SC2 action so they know the game can actually be incredibly exciting. By rights these guys shouldn't even be forced to play SC2 right now. People should go check out GSL.
On May 26 2012 13:46 Raskit wrote: If you are having trouble with VLC, try using the cache option under show more options in the network window. I set it to 15 seconds and it seems to have been enough.
I have no idea why that worked, but it did. Much thanks.
Finally!!! LighT for sc2 game. maybe people will stop connecting my name to death note and instead connecting to the reason why I chose this username to honor: Lee Jae Ho!
On May 26 2012 13:52 LightningStrike wrote: dat empty crowd
It's actually larger than when the match started, so I guess it isn't all bad news. Although the turnout for this contrasts the surprisingly large turnout for Up and Downs in GSL this week in a funny way.
On May 26 2012 13:52 LightningStrike wrote: dat empty crowd
It's actually larger than when the match started, so I guess it isn't all bad news. Although the turnout for this contrasts the surprisingly large turnout for Up and Downs in GSL this week in a funny way.
On May 26 2012 13:52 LightningStrike wrote: dat empty crowd
It's actually larger than when the match started, so I guess it isn't all bad news. Although the turnout for this contrasts the surprisingly large turnout for Up and Downs in GSL this week in a funny way.
It's pretty funny that OGN is already doing better than GOM ^^
Doing better than Gom? LOL. Maybe eventually, but right now I'd still prefer to watch Gom.
That said I'm not sure if that's because of game quality or everything else.
In terms of stream quality, yeah, I'd say this is way better than Gom... Free HD, whereas Gom's free stream is shit quality and lags / drops fairly often. To be fair to them, I'm a Mac user, and Gom Player doesn't work well on Mac; but that also raises the question why they have to stream everything through their own app when pretty much every other tournament and event on earth can do things through the web. Business reasons, I'm sure, but I would probably actually spend money on GSL if I thought I could get a proper stream.
Anyways, props to OGN for an awesome stream :-p The youtube stream was pretty laggy here, but the VLC link is beautiful.
It's pretty funny that OGN is already doing better than GOM ^^
Doing better than Gom? LOL. Maybe eventually, but right now I'd still prefer to watch Gom.
That said I'm not sure if that's because of game quality or everything else.
In terms of stream quality, yeah, I'd say this is way better than Gom... Free HD, whereas Gom's free stream is shit quality and lags / drops fairly often. To be fair to them, I'm a Mac user, and Gom Player doesn't work well on Mac; but that also raises the question why they have to stream everything through their own app when pretty much every other tournament and event on earth can do things through the web. Business reasons, I'm sure, but I would probably actually spend money on GSL if I thought I could get a proper stream.
Anyways, props to OGN for an awesome stream :-p The youtube stream was pretty laggy here, but the VLC link is beautiful.
idk if OGN could support the HD stream to the numbers of people that GOM broadcasts to tbh at least, not off of one link and connection.
On May 26 2012 14:11 Dodgin wrote: This is a pretty good game so far.
Both their Macro's slipped and they floated minerals for quite some time. But its been pretty standard except for that and they seem to have it under control now. Very impressed by both players!
Damn zero's playing well. I love that spine crawler play. Seriously because those things move, it's almost like having a higher max army count to counteract the more supply efficient army of toss
You can see that they need more practice but are improving so fast !!!! THis wont take long! I saw the protoss blink his entire stalker army back! While you expect some blink micro
Reverse choke spines with ovies to drop creep. Zero had over 100 drones so early so he had the luxury of this. Solid solid build. Turtle, macro hard and slow push with immobile army. Switch to voids woulda been a good idea for Stork.
Zero is a fucking boss, wow. Very impressive. Most Zerg, well shit, and Terran, fear Protoss late game. Zero has no such fears and actually invited Stork to the late game and absolutely crushed him.
damn, zero was a little slow on upgrades and didn't really handle the harass at the end to well, so I got a little scared, but DAMN march of the spine crawlerssssssssssssssss!!!
damn, they are good! the only thing they lack is experience, i rather thought the vortex with archons would have worked, does stork know that trick? It looked like he didnt really...still amazing play. ZerO god ur a boss with the spinecrawler over creep late game oh damn that was sexy!
On May 26 2012 14:20 Woizit wrote: wow it's impressive how well spreaded out the BLs always were.
This! Stork had nowhere good to vortex. and the mass spine crawler wall gave him no angles to blink in O.o never seen someone use spine crawlers as their support for BL's on the offensive before. Crazy game!
May I just say that I hope this game will be looked back upon as evidence that maps should be even more open with less chokes, and that even larger maps should continue to be explored.
On May 26 2012 14:21 grungust wrote: Zero is a fucking boss, wow. Very impressive. Most Zerg, well shit, and Terran, fear Protoss late game. Zero has no such fears and actually invited Stork to the late game and absolutely crushed him.
I don't think Zerg fears Protoss lategame that much...
That was actually really smart by Zero...I was worried with his lack of upgrades and well...just plain lack of an army, but so many spines + being able to re-drone + infestors to stall equals a seemingly unbeatable queen/broodlord/infestor/spine army. He played into ZvP late-game really well. So glad a zerg won versus a protoss. ><
After the first day of proleague I figured these guys were understandably way behind, but that game was actually entertaining. Im pretty excited to see more of these guys.
Zero looks better than Idra already >,> Srsly tho, some nice play there and really entertaining, nice to finally see a zerg utilizing spines to their full potential, spines are so good in max supply late game. And finally a zerg who keeps his broods spread out... instead of herp derping them into a mothership.
May I just say that I hope this game will be looked back upon as evidence that maps should be even more open with less chokes, and that even larger maps should continue to be explored.
Not enough feedbacking and storming. zero kept sending his infestors in front of his broodlords and got away with it almost every time.
prettty good game though. The offensive creep drop was well done. Normally people just slowly advance their spine wall step by step and it takes forever. The sudden jump forward was pretty nice, but apparently he left 2 bases undefended by moving those spines.
for those who say they've never seen offensive spines, you should see Squirtle vs Seal from last season's code A on the same map. Because it was seal he had already spread his creep that far out, so he didn't need the overlord creep, he just walked his spines all the way across the map until squirtle was contained.
On May 26 2012 14:20 Synystyr wrote: Reverse choke spines with ovies to drop creep. Zero had over 100 drones so early so he had the luxury of this. Solid solid build. Turtle, macro hard and slow push with immobile army. Switch to voids woulda been a good idea for Stork.
that strategy certainly was brilliant and i've been wondering when overlord creep drop would come into play
i'm not 100% sure if it would work vs a GSL protoss (i think you need probably need immortals to fight that) but it definitely should be tried
zergs tend to bank a lot of minerals they can't figure out what to do with and this seems like a logical conclusion
stork was playing okay but not great, he seems not to fully grasp what blink is for yet and botched his vortex pretty bad
On May 26 2012 14:20 Woizit wrote: wow it's impressive how well spreaded out the BLs always were.
This! Stork had nowhere good to vortex. and the mass spine crawler wall gave him no angles to blink in O.o never seen someone use spine crawlers as their support for BL's on the offensive before. Crazy game!
Only other game that was like this was a ZvP in code A (can't remember who, might be Seal and Squirtle) that had BL army spreaded across 2-3 screens with a spinecrawler field.
Oh, to avoid SC2-focused players only playing in the Ace Match, they changed the rule this season so that players in the first six games are the only ones eligible for the Ace Match.
On May 26 2012 14:23 Oboeman wrote: Not enough feedbacking and storming. zero kept sending his infestors in front of his broodlords and got away with it almost every time.
prettty good game though. The offensive creep drop was well done. Normally people just slowly advance their spine wall step by step and it takes forever. The sudden jump forward was pretty nice, but apparently he left 2 bases undefended by moving those spines.
I think he was trying to NP the Mothership, but Stork didn't fall for it.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
May I just say that I hope this game will be looked back upon as evidence that maps should be even more open with less chokes, and that even larger maps should continue to be explored.
The maps are already large enough.
Define 'large enough' please. We are not remotely close to fully understanding maps and SC2.
On May 26 2012 14:23 Oboeman wrote: Not enough feedbacking and storming. zero kept sending his infestors in front of his broodlords and got away with it almost every time.
prettty good game though. The offensive creep drop was well done. Normally people just slowly advance their spine wall step by step and it takes forever. The sudden jump forward was pretty nice, but apparently he left 2 bases undefended by moving those spines.
I think he was trying to NP the Mothership, but Stork didn't fall for it.
He was, but he still landed the fungal and got the infestor out alive, and his broodlords chewed up the fungalled stalkers in seconds.
The instant an infestor pokes in front of a broodlord it should immediately die.
On May 26 2012 14:24 GTR wrote: Oh, to avoid SC2-focused players only playing in the Ace Match, they changed the rule this season so that players in the first six games are the only ones eligible for the Ace Match.
seriously kespa why don't you let people bend the rules a bit.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
On May 26 2012 14:24 GTR wrote: Oh, to avoid SC2-focused players only playing in the Ace Match, they changed the rule this season so that players in the first six games are the only ones eligible for the Ace Match.
On May 26 2012 14:27 SkelA wrote: Just woke up . How was Stork in SC2 ?
Pretty good, took HerO to 5-6 base lategame with an air>ground transition. HerO finally exploited the horribly claustrophobic map by building 100 spine crawlers and planting 20-30 at all major chokes and slow pushing with 20 brood lords, queens, infestors, and corruptors.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Zero's macro didn't really slip, he had no gas.
Both didn't have gas which is why their minerals were floating. But a part of Macro is spending your money wise and mineral/gas management. If you watch some of the Sc2 pro's play they will do the same builds/styles and be on the same amount of bases but not floating those minerals because they were spending better.
On May 26 2012 14:27 SkelA wrote: Just woke up . How was Stork in SC2 ?
Pretty good, took HerO to 5-6 base lategame with an air>ground transition. HerO finally exploited the horribly claustrophobic map by building 100 spine crawlers and planting 20-30 at all major chokes and slow pushing with 20 brood lords, queens, infestors, and corruptors.
if only PvP could reach 5-6 bases lategame... ZerO*
May I just say that I hope this game will be looked back upon as evidence that maps should be even more open with less chokes, and that even larger maps should continue to be explored.
The maps are already large enough.
Define 'large enough' please. We are not remotely close to fully understanding maps and SC2.
The maps are larger than in BW and already have equal bases to the most saturated BW maps. I hardly ever seen split map situations, which wasn't uncommon in BW. Maps could be made more open or the middles changed in more creative ways but I don't see a need to actually increase the dimensions of the map.
On May 26 2012 14:27 SkelA wrote: Just woke up . How was Stork in SC2 ?
Not great. Not terrible. Outmatched by Zero in that PvZ though.
Its hard not to get outmacroed by Zerg. The problem is a lack of mid game attack timings to prevent nothing but drones from being made.
I hope HOTS really introduces a real harass unit to help out, as it is protoss has very few options to harass effectively. Pheonix killing one drone or a couple overlords is nothing when the zerg is on 3-4 base.
Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Zero's macro didn't really slip, he had no gas.
Both didn't have gas which is why their minerals were floating. But a part of Macro is spending your money wise and mineral/gas management. If you watch some of the Sc2 pro's play they will do the same builds/styles and be on the same amount of bases but not floating those minerals because they were spending better.
TBH I don't see many pros with 6 bases at the 15 min mark@ZerO.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
There was a ZvP in the up/down matches which involved continuous speed warp prism production (probably 10 total over the course of the game) and constant protoss army movement with defensive recalls to save the units. The zerg never had the bank to make 90 spinecrawlers, like zero did, and could never really hold onto a 5th base.
zvp needs more stuff like that! and these dudes with their fabled reaction times and multitasking should be leading the charge!
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
Because a lot of us have seen it before. Its very very good and the only person I've ever seen try to counter it properly is HerO a lot of storm drops so that eventually the zerg does get starved out and they can't just make spinecrawlers.
The other thing is its so so so strong O.O So scary.
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
Because a lot of us have seen it before. Its very very good and the only person I've ever seen try to counter it properly is HerO a lot of storm drops so that eventually the zerg does get starved out and they can't just make spinecrawlers.
Yeah, other Zergs have done this before in ZvP. Seal has done it a few times in Code A.
But first time I've seen a Zerg actually push his spine forest into his opponent's base.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
There was a ZvP in the up/down matches which involved continuous speed warp prism production (probably 10 total over the course of the game) and constant protoss army movement with defensive recalls to save the units. The zerg never had the bank to make 90 spinecrawlers, like zero did, and could never really hold onto a 5th base.
zvp needs more stuff like that! and these dudes with their fabled reaction times and multitasking should be leading the charge!
Reaction times and multi tasking mean nothing if you don't know the game.... Give them sometime(Escpially since they are practicing two games at once right now..) to learn the basics of the game, the meta game etc. then you will start to see them be bale to use their skills to the fullest.
Right now they are trying to grasp the basics, learn the builds and crap.
Idra talks about this strat all the time and how the toss cant win once it happens. Its just really boring way to play. Stork also left zero alone the entire game -.-
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
People have been doing the gum up the middle of the map with spines while getting broods out maneuver on certain maps for...months? Or something like that. Not this crazily, and not usually offensively, but still.
And if Stork had started warp prism harass like...before he lost his army he could have abused Zero's immobility to death, right? Right?
On May 26 2012 14:33 raf3776 wrote: Idra talks about this strat all the time and how the toss cant win once it happens. Its just really boring way to play. Stork also left zero alone the entire game -.-
Early game, maybe. Late game, there were a decent number of warp prism harass.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Those 2 infestors at the front of the spines were a nice bait, hopefully more of these tactics come about to encourage Protosses to split sections of their armies to snipe stuff like Terran.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
There was a ZvP in the up/down matches which involved continuous speed warp prism production (probably 10 total over the course of the game) and constant protoss army movement with defensive recalls to save the units. The zerg never had the bank to make 90 spinecrawlers, like zero did, and could never really hold onto a 5th base.
zvp needs more stuff like that! and these dudes with their fabled reaction times and multitasking should be leading the charge!
Reaction times and multi tasking mean nothing if you don't know the game.... Give them sometime(Escpially since they are practicing two games at once right now..) to learn the basics of the game, the meta game etc. then you will start to see them be bale to use their skills to the fullest.
Right now they are trying to grasp the basics, learn the builds and crap.
i agree, they are just learning they may have the reaction skills, but they probably dont know what the correct decision to make. Tho soon they will then u watch out
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Zero's macro didn't really slip, he had no gas.
lol he had 5k gas at the end and no minerals.
Because he spent 9000 minerals on spinecrawlers and then four of his bases mined out, and then DTs killed two of his remaining three mining bases.
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
Because a lot of us have seen it before. Its very very good and the only person I've ever seen try to counter it properly is HerO a lot of storm drops so that eventually the zerg does get starved out and they can't just make spinecrawlers.
The other thing is its so so so strong O.O So scary.
I've seen mass spines used for defense or splitting the map in half. But I haven't seen some one late game push with a mass of spines before O.o it's very possible It's happened often and I've missed it, haven't been able to catch a lot of games recent;y but def a first for me to see!
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
People have been doing the gum up the middle of the map with spines while getting broods out maneuver on certain maps for...months? Or something like that. Not this crazily, and not usually offensively, but still.
And if Stork had started warp prism harass like...before he lost his army he could have abused Zero's immobility to death, right? Right?
Fair enough. I'd love to see what Ace's PvZ drop play would've done against this.
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Zero's macro didn't really slip, he had no gas.
lol he had 5k gas at the end and no minerals.
Because he spent 9000 minerals on spinecrawlers and then four of his bases mined out, and then DTs killed two of his remaining three mining bases.
And he was already maxed. Supply-free units are the way to go in most end game situations (building cannons, crawlers, etc).
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
If you saw Ace's games from up & down last night vs bbongbbong you might reconsider this post. He made brood turtle look silly and ridiculous.
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
Because a lot of us have seen it before. Its very very good and the only person I've ever seen try to counter it properly is HerO a lot of storm drops so that eventually the zerg does get starved out and they can't just make spinecrawlers.
The other thing is its so so so strong O.O So scary.
I've seen mass spines used for defense or splitting the map in half. But I haven't seen some one late game push with a mass of spines before O.o it's very possible It's happened often and I've missed it, haven't been able to catch a lot of games recent;y but def a first for me to see!
On May 26 2012 14:21 raf3776 wrote: That game was not as impressive as everyone is making it
How was that not an impressive game? Yea their Macro's slipped at some points but meh thats gonna happen with a game you haven't played that much. ZerO showed a geat understanding of lategame ZvP and had his BL's spread always + Sick spinecrawler late game push. Stork showed some decent phoenix control being very active and finding holes for damage even with lots of queens and spores.
Of course this isn't going to be Code S level play. If you're expecting that right away then your just crazy, I personally found the game very entertaining and was impressed by both players. More so then any of the other BW pro's playing Sc2 so far!
Zero's macro didn't really slip, he had no gas.
lol he had 5k gas at the end and no minerals.
He was maxed pretty much all game . The only thing he could have done is morf overlords .
On May 26 2012 14:30 typedef struct wrote: Why aren't people more excited about this? I feel like I just looked into the future of the PvZ matchup. A unit that is mobile but slow, tanks well, does good damage, costs 0 supply and 0 resources (assuming u mine a bit with it first)....
Because a lot of us have seen it before. Its very very good and the only person I've ever seen try to counter it properly is HerO a lot of storm drops so that eventually the zerg does get starved out and they can't just make spinecrawlers.
The other thing is its so so so strong O.O So scary.
I've seen mass spines used for defense or splitting the map in half. But I haven't seen some one late game push with a mass of spines before O.o it's very possible It's happened often and I've missed it, haven't been able to catch a lot of games recent;y but def a first for me to see!
Doesn't happen often at all.
because toss usually dont let zerg sit there and macro the entire game
On May 26 2012 14:37 vndods wrote: I see MMA's old coach.
in some of the interviews, the players have mentioned how much he has helped them improve in this short amount of time iirc. probably well worth the money, but i hope that more coach stealing doesnt occur in the near future.
On May 26 2012 14:37 vndods wrote: I see MMA's old coach.
in some of the interviews, the players have mentioned how much he has helped them improve in this short amount of time iirc. probably well worth the money, but i hope that more coach stealing doesnt occur in the near future.
I dont mind atm, they need to catch up in meta games and strategy and compostion. ect stuff that comes with following the scene and experience
On May 26 2012 14:37 vndods wrote: I see MMA's old coach.
in some of the interviews, the players have mentioned how much he has helped them improve in this short amount of time iirc. probably well worth the money, but i hope that more coach stealing doesnt occur in the near future.
I dont mind atm, they need to catch up in meta games and strategy and compostion. ect stuff that comes with following the scene and experience
Which also makes me wonder what theWind's doing right now, with OGS disbanded and all.
On May 26 2012 14:39 0neder wrote: If spines slow push ends up being standard, we have an excitement/spectating balance issue to resolve.
It won't, by any means. Drop play completely obliterates the possibility of it being effective.
Well, we can only hope that fewer spines at the front and more at the bases doesn't become the next step. I mean, I would be sad if spinecrawlers began winning games for Zerg
But until I see it work in the GSL and Code A/S Im not worried at all
On May 26 2012 14:39 0neder wrote: If spines slow push ends up being standard, we have an excitement/spectating balance issue to resolve.
It won't, by any means. Drop play completely obliterates the possibility of it being effective.
Bold statement, depends on the map, situation and how well the zerg defends. I can see mass spine style happening now and then
i dont see why it wouldnt work, its not like u dont have units. U have the middle of the map in control and vision, no reason why u couldnt have overlords spread out along the edges of the map, then spines and spores at each expo. When u hit 200/200 might as well spend some of it, it doesnt gain intrest
On May 26 2012 14:44 Vorlik wrote: So are these bw pro's that we've been hearing about recently or have these guys been around for a while? I haven't been up to date recently.
Yes, HerO, Stork, and Jangbi in particular are some of the top BW players who played tonight.
On May 26 2012 14:44 Vorlik wrote: So are these bw pro's that we've been hearing about recently or have these guys been around for a while? I haven't been up to date recently.
Yes, HerO, Stork, and Jangbi in particular are some of the top BW players who played tonight.
On May 26 2012 14:44 Vorlik wrote: So are these bw pro's that we've been hearing about recently or have these guys been around for a while? I haven't been up to date recently.
Yes, HerO, Stork, and Jangbi in particular are some of the top BW players who played tonight.
It's ZerO.
also LOL FREE
LOL
dont see any rax in base
oh okay i guess it's a good time to expand now ^_^
why cancel nexus? two nexuses are better than one!
On May 26 2012 14:47 Alabasern wrote: It's not wise to fast expand on a two player map during an ACE match.
I think it's fine, you just need to scout a little more diligently (he only checked one side of the map for proxies) and understand how to defend it a little better.
On May 26 2012 14:48 power-overwhelming wrote: Lol in this month alone I've seen Terran cheese protoss in major tournies more than Protoss has cheesed Terran in sc2's entirety
Quiet you! Terran just has this thing where if they can ever trade all their SCVs for all your probes they win.
On May 26 2012 14:48 power-overwhelming wrote: Lol in this month alone I've seen Terran cheese protoss in major tournies more than Protoss has cheesed Terran in sc2's entirety
Quiet you! Terran just has this thing where if they can ever trade all their SCVs for all your probes they win.
The only mule used in this game was a manner one, sometimes reality hits your hard bro.
On May 26 2012 14:48 power-overwhelming wrote: Lol in this month alone I've seen Terran cheese protoss in major tournies more than Protoss has cheesed Terran in sc2's entirety
One does not simply scout one side of the map and fast expand
On May 26 2012 14:44 Vorlik wrote: So are these bw pro's that we've been hearing about recently or have these guys been around for a while? I haven't been up to date recently.
Yes, HerO, Stork, and Jangbi in particular are some of the top BW players who played tonight.
It's ZerO.
also LOL FREE
LOL
dont see any rax in base
oh okay i guess it's a good time to expand now ^_^
why cancel nexus? two nexuses are better than one!
he saw one of them in the base, maybe thought it was fast expand?
On May 26 2012 14:44 Vorlik wrote: So are these bw pro's that we've been hearing about recently or have these guys been around for a while? I haven't been up to date recently.
Yes, HerO, Stork, and Jangbi in particular are some of the top BW players who played tonight.
It's ZerO.
also LOL FREE
LOL
dont see any rax in base
oh okay i guess it's a good time to expand now ^_^
why cancel nexus? two nexuses are better than one!
he saw one of them in the base, maybe thought it was fast expand?
Yeah, just lack of experience. You can count the SCV's and know something is up and hold relatively easily, but if you've not played the game enough you might not know something is off. It's just something players will have to get used to.
3 month old interview, MMA didn't follow the Flash bandwagon and called out that ZerO will perform the best in SC2 amongst BW pros since he saw ZerO play and claimed that ZerO had a better understanding of SC2 than any other progamer.
On May 26 2012 17:37 Gladiator333 wrote: Can't wait to see when Stork plays fulltime SC2, but why was his fanclub closed -_-
Lack of effort from OP i think
Probably. Stork deserves nothing but the second best fanclub on teamliquid.
The Stork vs ZerO game was really good btw. Awesome spine crawler push. When vortex isn't effective anymore I wonder what protoss can do though
The recall strat to prevent mass fungals is much more promising than expecting a Zerg progamer to completly mess-up his BL and infestors control and not only fall into a vortex, but also not fungals the archon and let them in.
As a protoss player, I'm glad vortex will be out, since now low league commentators will stop claiming it does counter bl/infestors/corruptors when in fact it doesn't.
Notes from Reality's interview that I found interesting.
Has a positive view on SC2. Views it as a new beginning where everyone starts fresh. It seems from this statement that he hasn't had much contact with current SC2 pros, and that they more or less just practice on the ladder and amongst themselves.
Only prepared for TvZ in his BW match due to lack of practice time.
Used cheese in the Ace match because it seemed like protoss prefer a macro game, so used it as a changeup.
Mentioned how he doesn't like the animosity between BW and SC2 fans. Seems like Korean Netizens are just as childish as TL.net posters.
On May 27 2012 01:48 baubo wrote: Notes from Reality's interview that I found interesting.
Has a positive view on SC2. Views it as a new beginning where everyone starts fresh. It seems from this statement that he hasn't had much contact with current SC2 pros, and that they more or less just practice on the ladder and amongst themselves.
Only prepared for TvZ in his BW match due to lack of practice time.
Used cheese in the Ace match because it seemed like protoss prefer a macro game, so used it as a changeup.
Mentioned how he doesn't like the animosity between BW and SC2 fans. Seems like Korean Netizens are just as childish as TL.net posters.
Thanks for these tidbits man. Glad to see most of the bw pros with a good attitude towards sc2. With their natural ability and experience in the RTS genre I feel as long as they stay positive and go at it with as much effort as they did for BW they will be fine.
EPT
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JangBi <Neo Electric Circuit> 
Soulkey
Reality <New Sniper Ridge> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zeRvZ.png)
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looking forward to it~!
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