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On May 21 2012 16:03 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. i think flash's biggest problem with sc2 is that he is stuck in the bw mentality of "the longer the game goes with me macroing right the farther ahead i am" which is true when you're building the bw superarmy of terran esp if you're flash but in sc2 terrans generally need to do damage to protoss and to pressure zergs to prevent absolute drone freedom when flash catches on to this he will improve rapidly just from applying the concept...this however will be difficult for him as he has held the same lategame or bust mindset for so many years in bw (when he doesn't cheese that is)
If flash switched to SC2 toss with that mentality he would be insanely good. Once he understood how to forcefield well it'd be so hard to break him.
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Camera won't stop harassing horang2.
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On May 21 2012 16:04 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:00 Acritter wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. I will never forgive Effort for sacrificing over half his Mutalisks to a single Thor. To me this is what makes this so entertaining. What stuck out to me yesterday was JD roaving the map with 3-4 groups of 10 roaches, microing each group perfectly. Then, when the toss moved out he didn't engage at all, fled up his ramp into his main, and send one of the groups to his opponents base to snipe pylons and almost nothing else. He was so mechanically on top of everything and then made every single wrong decision possible. They just don't understand simple metagame/basic game knowledge, but have ridiculous APM/reaction times/minimap awareness, which leads to some really bizarre and comical situations. As they get better the games will start being sick instead of just funny.
Some of those mindsets, though, are just so WRONG... There's no excuse for simply letting your units die like that. Did he not know what Thors were? Did he have his health bars set to selected? Did he simply decide "fuck this, I'm better with 11 Mutas like in the glory days"?
Maybe I'm wrong, but some of this stuff is just insane.
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On May 21 2012 16:05 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:03 unit wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. i think flash's biggest problem with sc2 is that he is stuck in the bw mentality of "the longer the game goes with me macroing right the farther ahead i am" which is true when you're building the bw superarmy of terran esp if you're flash but in sc2 terrans generally need to do damage to protoss and to pressure zergs to prevent absolute drone freedom when flash catches on to this he will improve rapidly just from applying the concept...this however will be difficult for him as he has held the same lategame or bust mindset for so many years in bw (when he doesn't cheese that is) Or to put it in more simpler terms, Flash needs to stop turtling. Terran isn't the turtle race in SC2, Protoss is. If he wants to turtle he should switch to Protoss. 
Blame queen buff, expect a lot of tvz to be mostly greedy play(fast 3 cc) and defending zerg pressure until at least 2-2 is done, moving out before then is a gamble.
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On May 21 2012 16:06 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:04 Swords wrote:On May 21 2012 16:00 Acritter wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. I will never forgive Effort for sacrificing over half his Mutalisks to a single Thor. To me this is what makes this so entertaining. What stuck out to me yesterday was JD roaving the map with 3-4 groups of 10 roaches, microing each group perfectly. Then, when the toss moved out he didn't engage at all, fled up his ramp into his main, and send one of the groups to his opponents base to snipe pylons and almost nothing else. He was so mechanically on top of everything and then made every single wrong decision possible. They just don't understand simple metagame/basic game knowledge, but have ridiculous APM/reaction times/minimap awareness, which leads to some really bizarre and comical situations. As they get better the games will start being sick instead of just funny. I can't wait for them to incorporate backstabs in SC2. Pretty rare in today's ball vs ball world.
Soulkey also looked great against Trap.
until it was time to fight that army, and he just booked it and base traded instead of trying to figure out how to fight it.
He had the perfect counterattack so he could sack his 4th, build spines at his 3rd, and hold it with a flank and a lot of fungals. Instead he just built 20 spines in his main and immediately went for the base trade.
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wait a second so a player decided to choose to play protoss since he thought protoss was imba now they're decided whether to let him offrace?
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On May 21 2012 16:08 roymarthyup wrote:
wait a second so a player decided to choose to play protoss since he thought protoss was imba now they're decided whether to let him offrace?
no that was a joke lol
they are still fixing the problem
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I'm sorry but WTF could the possibly be talking about.
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On May 21 2012 16:05 Le French wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:58 ZeromuS wrote:Watching Jaehoon was frustrating. 7 minute 3 gate pressure with a far away proxy pylon and his WG tech finishing 20 seconds before the extra gates. I honestly wonder how much sc2 he has played because the timings were horrible there. I can hit more crisp timings with my 3 gate build  Really now?
It's true really. You can get Diamond and Master players with better 4! gate all-in than that and it doesn't take that much effort to learn; though I suppose trying to balance playing the 2 games are really hard. Difference is everyone in T8 looks terrible in both BW and SC2. Really makes you wonder if they are even trying anymore or just letting the frustration get to them.
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Where's smix when you need her ):
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What exactly is this tech problem?
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On May 21 2012 16:07 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:04 Swords wrote:On May 21 2012 16:00 Acritter wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. I will never forgive Effort for sacrificing over half his Mutalisks to a single Thor. To me this is what makes this so entertaining. What stuck out to me yesterday was JD roaving the map with 3-4 groups of 10 roaches, microing each group perfectly. Then, when the toss moved out he didn't engage at all, fled up his ramp into his main, and send one of the groups to his opponents base to snipe pylons and almost nothing else. He was so mechanically on top of everything and then made every single wrong decision possible. They just don't understand simple metagame/basic game knowledge, but have ridiculous APM/reaction times/minimap awareness, which leads to some really bizarre and comical situations. As they get better the games will start being sick instead of just funny. Some of those mindsets, though, are just so WRONG... There's no excuse for simply letting your units die like that. Did he not know what Thors were? Did he have his health bars set to selected? Did he simply decide "fuck this, I'm better with 11 Mutas like in the glory days"? Maybe I'm wrong, but some of this stuff is just insane.
I mean, he's playing two games at once. One game you're supposed to keep your mutas in the tightest ball possible against terran and the other game you're supposed to keep them as spread out as possible. I imagine you might just not be able to switch mentalities immediately. Especially if you're Effort and have been stacking your mutas for years now.
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Canada13410 Posts
On May 21 2012 16:05 Le French wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:58 ZeromuS wrote:Watching Jaehoon was frustrating. 7 minute 3 gate pressure with a far away proxy pylon and his WG tech finishing 20 seconds before the extra gates. I honestly wonder how much sc2 he has played because the timings were horrible there. I can hit more crisp timings with my 3 gate build Really now?
His build was bad. He is better than me but his build was bad and poorly executed. It was timed oddly and he didn't have any tech behind his attack and his timing for the attack was late.
If he had hit earlier at a better timing against Horangii who had no sentry, and only 3 stalkers and blink half done and only 2 gates of production he would have won easily.
So, yes. Watching these games are frustrating, the decisions and timings on the builds are not anywhere near as good as we the SC2 community want to see and are expecting from these BW pros especially when there is a ton of "end of current sc2 era" hype being thrown around.
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On May 21 2012 16:09 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:05 Le French wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 ZeromuS wrote:Watching Jaehoon was frustrating. 7 minute 3 gate pressure with a far away proxy pylon and his WG tech finishing 20 seconds before the extra gates. I honestly wonder how much sc2 he has played because the timings were horrible there. I can hit more crisp timings with my 3 gate build Really now? It's true really. You can get Diamond and Master players with better 4! gate all-in than that and it doesn't take that much effort to learn; though I suppose trying to balance playing the 2 games are really hard. Difference is everyone in T8 looks terrible in both BW and SC2. Really makes you wonder if they are even trying anymore or just letting the frustration get to them.
They are trying their best.
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They can't restart and will give the game to Horang2... my guess.
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On May 21 2012 16:08 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:08 roymarthyup wrote:
wait a second so a player decided to choose to play protoss since he thought protoss was imba now they're decided whether to let him offrace? no that was a joke lol they are still fixing the problem
Oh man. I seriously LOL'd. If that was a troll, well played sir.
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On May 21 2012 16:09 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:05 Le French wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 ZeromuS wrote:Watching Jaehoon was frustrating. 7 minute 3 gate pressure with a far away proxy pylon and his WG tech finishing 20 seconds before the extra gates. I honestly wonder how much sc2 he has played because the timings were horrible there. I can hit more crisp timings with my 3 gate build Really now? His build was bad. He is better than me but his build was bad and poorly executed. It was timed oddly and he didn't have any tech behind his attack and his timing for the attack was late. If he had hit earlier at a better timing against Horangii who had no sentry, and only 3 stalkers and blink half done and only 2 gates of production he would have won easily. So, yes. Watching these games are frustrating, the decisions and timings on the builds are not anywhere near as good as we the SC2 community want to see and are expecting from these BW pros especially when there is a ton of "end of current sc2 era" hype being thrown around.
3 gate pressure is meant to hit a little after 5 minutes. To get it at 7 minutes is just...
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On May 21 2012 16:09 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 16:07 Acritter wrote:On May 21 2012 16:04 Swords wrote:On May 21 2012 16:00 Acritter wrote:On May 21 2012 15:58 Kommander wrote:On May 21 2012 15:55 Nibbler89 wrote:On May 21 2012 15:50 Emporio wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the PL. Is the SC2 any good (compared to actual SC2 pros)? It's been a wide range, some have shown potential and some are so clueless about how the game works that when the two get paired versus each other it's hard to tell how the one's looking good would do versus an actually good player. Yup, Jangbi and Effort seem to have a good grasp of the game and strategies, they need more work but they're not too bad. Flash needs more work, at least on his TvZ, cuz he didn't put pressure on Effort at all who proceeded to drone like mad and max within the first 10-11 minutes or so, but his macro's there. Jaedong REALLY needs more practice, he had good mechanics but strategically and decision-making wise, he was totally out of sorts. I will never forgive Effort for sacrificing over half his Mutalisks to a single Thor. To me this is what makes this so entertaining. What stuck out to me yesterday was JD roaving the map with 3-4 groups of 10 roaches, microing each group perfectly. Then, when the toss moved out he didn't engage at all, fled up his ramp into his main, and send one of the groups to his opponents base to snipe pylons and almost nothing else. He was so mechanically on top of everything and then made every single wrong decision possible. They just don't understand simple metagame/basic game knowledge, but have ridiculous APM/reaction times/minimap awareness, which leads to some really bizarre and comical situations. As they get better the games will start being sick instead of just funny. Some of those mindsets, though, are just so WRONG... There's no excuse for simply letting your units die like that. Did he not know what Thors were? Did he have his health bars set to selected? Did he simply decide "fuck this, I'm better with 11 Mutas like in the glory days"? Maybe I'm wrong, but some of this stuff is just insane. I mean, he's playing two games at once. One game you're supposed to keep your mutas in the tightest ball possible against terran and the other game you're supposed to keep them as spread out as possible. I imagine you might just not be able to switch mentalities immediately. Especially if you're Effort and have been stacking your mutas for years now.
Even when those Mutas are stacked, you don't run them into the middle of a pack of Marine+Medic.
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EPT
