On April 10 2012 04:36 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I just finished watching the archives of the last finals matches an hour or so ago, having watched most of the finals live, but could someone confirm for me that I just watched Squirtle win the series and then watch Alive get the trophy due to winning some nonsense second series that popped up out of the blue and cannot be an extended series that was due to previously losing to Alive earlier in the tournament (because he didn't)? Did that really just happen? Was this tournament Bo3s most of the way, Bo5 in the Semi-Finals and Bo5 in the final with the condition that someone coming from the Loser's Bracket, with a SUPERIOR record in pools after coming from the Open Bracket, WITHOUT having been knocked down to the Loser's Bracket before the finals would have to win a SECOND Bo5 if he managed to win the first? What the hell kind of s system is that? It was terrible and illogical! Have I misunderstood something? Was there some matchup between them not mentioned on Liquipedia tat I am unaware of? >.>
The alternative is Squirtle being elimiated from the tournament after losing to Nestea 1-2. (single elimination)
On April 10 2012 04:36 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I just finished watching the archives of the last finals matches an hour or so ago, having watched most of the finals live, but could someone confirm for me that I just watched Squirtle win the series and then watch Alive get the trophy due to winning some nonsense second series that popped up out of the blue and cannot be an extended series that was due to previously losing to Alive earlier in the tournament (because he didn't)? Did that really just happen? Was this tournament Bo3s most of the way, Bo5 in the Semi-Finals and Bo5 in the final with the condition that someone coming from the Loser's Bracket, with a SUPERIOR record in pools after coming from the Open Bracket, WITHOUT having been knocked down to the Loser's Bracket before the finals would have to win a SECOND Bo5 if he managed to win the first? What the hell kind of s system is that? It was terrible and illogical! Have I misunderstood something? Was there some matchup between them not mentioned on Liquipedia tat I am unaware of? >.>
...it's standard Double Elimination Bracket dude, everyone gets two lives, meaning that if you lose once you go to the loser bracket, lose twice and you're out. The winner of the winner bracket, in this case aLive, will have lost zero series going into the grand finals whereas the one coming from the loser bracket, in this case Squirtle, had already lost his first life 1-2 vs Nestea a lot earlier. Thus, when he took the first series 3-2, aLive lost a life, but since he started with two, it was now a reset, and both of them had to play one final best of 5 to decide everything.
It's a little rough system for the guy coming from the LB I'll admit, and it does sometimes feel a little unfair for the player coming from the LB, but it's a very logical and fair system.
Was this tournament Bo3s most of the way, Bo5 in the Semi-Finals and Bo5 in the final with the condition that someone coming from the Loser's Bracket, with a SUPERIOR record in pools after coming from the Open Bracket, WITHOUT having been knocked down to the Loser's Bracket before the finals would have to win a SECOND Bo5 if he managed to win the first? What the hell kind of s system is that? It was terrible and illogical! Have I misunderstood something? Was there some matchup between them not mentioned on Liquipedia tat I am unaware of? >.>
I think you missed a lot because I don't know how you can type this, "with the condition that someone coming from the Loser's Bracket, with a SUPERIOR record in pools after coming from the Open Bracket, WITHOUT having been knocked down to the Loser's Bracket before the finals" and not understand it.
It's a complete contradiction because how does someone end up in the loser's bracket which you acknowledge in the 1st part of the sentence end up there unless they lost in the first place to be sent down there? Squirtle lost to Nestea in the winner's bracket so was sent to the loser's bracket. Alive never dropped a series, so hasn't used his extra life which everyone is afforded in a double elimination tourney.
On April 10 2012 00:13 Cereb wrote: I went to bed after Stephano got destroyed by MMA...
But it's kinda funny that MMA is unbeatable in zvt (As far as I can tell from TLPD he hasn't lost a single series) but just completely falls apart in tvp Im pretty sure Stephano would have had a much better chance vs Squirtle than MMA.
And the games against Nestea were too bad as well. Picking Taldarim as your last map in zvz is kinda a cheap move since you don't get any scouting info so it's much more build order based.
But man! Amazing performance by Stephano! It's nice that there is atleast ONE bloody guy from outside of Korea who knows how to play this game.
i went bed/stop watching as well after stephano eliminated, haha
but i still want to thanks stephano, he was the only reason for watching IPL 4.He is the only foreigner player in top 16, also he beat legit GSL players like Bomber/JYP/Curious, played toe to toe with best ZvZer NesTea, such a close games against Marineking and losing to best TvZer MMA.
at the end, stephano shows he is a legit player and skilled as top koreans.
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
On April 10 2012 01:04 dragonborn wrote: [quote] i went bed/stop watching as well after stephano eliminated, haha
but i still want to thanks stephano, he was the only reason for watching IPL 4.He is the only foreigner player in top 16, also he beat legit GSL players like Bomber/JYP/Curious, played toe to toe with best ZvZer NesTea, such a close games against Marineking and losing to best TvZer MMA.
at the end, stephano shows he is a legit player and skilled as top koreans.
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
GGing in that situation is seen as cowardly across the board. The reason Boxer is loved by people in Korea is because of his Never-GG attitude. MMA knows that well enough, being on Slayers.
Plus, Stephano did not have 15+ infestors and ultras when MMA started nuking. Watch MMA's games vs. IdrA to see his standard play vs. Zerg when he's way ahead. He doesn't nuke, he doesn't build six sensor towers, and he doesn't drag games out this long.
Don't get me wrong, Stephano does a lot of in-game ceremonies as well, but MMA dragged the game out twenty minutes with his ceremony and put the casters in a ridiculously awkward position. That was BM.
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
GGing in that situation is seen as cowardly across the board. The reason Boxer is loved by people in Korea is because of his Never-GG attitude. MMA knows that well enough, being on Slayers.
Plus, Stephano did not have 15+ infestors and ultras when MMA started nuking. Watch MMA's games vs. IdrA to see his standard play vs. Zerg when he's way ahead. He doesn't nuke, he doesn't build six sensor towers, and he doesn't drag games out this long.
Don't get me wrong, Stephano does a lot of in-game ceremonies as well, but MMA dragged the game out twenty minutes with his ceremony and put the casters in a ridiculously awkward position. That was BM.
No... you simply do what everyone else does, make one final attack with everything you have, lose everything, then thats when you GG.
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
GGing in that situation is seen as cowardly across the board. The reason Boxer is loved by people in Korea is because of his Never-GG attitude. MMA knows that well enough, being on Slayers.
Plus, Stephano did not have 15+ infestors and ultras when MMA started nuking. Watch MMA's games vs. IdrA to see his standard play vs. Zerg when he's way ahead. He doesn't nuke, he doesn't build six sensor towers, and he doesn't drag games out this long.
Don't get me wrong, Stephano does a lot of in-game ceremonies as well, but MMA dragged the game out twenty minutes with his ceremony and put the casters in a ridiculously awkward position. That was BM.
Loosen up a bit, he was just putting on a show. Albeit I wanted Stephano to win, but after realising that it was hopeless I just sat back and watched MMA amuse the audience a little.
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
GGing in that situation is seen as cowardly across the board. The reason Boxer is loved by people in Korea is because of his Never-GG attitude. MMA knows that well enough, being on Slayers.
Plus, Stephano did not have 15+ infestors and ultras when MMA started nuking. Watch MMA's games vs. IdrA to see his standard play vs. Zerg when he's way ahead. He doesn't nuke, he doesn't build six sensor towers, and he doesn't drag games out this long.
Don't get me wrong, Stephano does a lot of in-game ceremonies as well, but MMA dragged the game out twenty minutes with his ceremony and put the casters in a ridiculously awkward position. That was BM.
I can certainly understand your views on early gg-ing. But IdrA is the guy who gg's while having the game won and Boxer is the one who gg's only when he has single digit supply count (which I personally find more ridiculous than laudable). Nobody will resent Stephano for gg'ing if he starts losing shit to nukes, or if he has only 2 bases remaining against a 5 base Terran. Personally I didn't feel that what MMA was doing was offensive. It was on the level of Stephano proxy'ing hatcheries in the middle of the map. Showy, funny and certainly a bit provocative, but not "Bad Mannered" so to speak.
I much prefer double-elimination, it is a much better system at determining the best players. In single-elimination, match-ups>all. They are obviously important in a double-bracket system as well, but less so as every player gets to lose once without being out of the tournament. I don't agree that it is a negative thing in a final.
On April 10 2012 04:29 usethis2 wrote: I'm still unsure how aLive got the clue of roach/baneling all-in from Nestea in game 3. I thought he saw just a glimpse of a roach or two but he immediately canceled blue flame and got the seige mode like 5 secs before the bust came. That was an amazing game sense for sure but I wonder if he was sure of it or simply being (overly) cautious.
That was the game where alive opened with a 2rax bunker rush on sanshorn mist right? Well, he had a failed all-in that didn't kill enough drones, and I think one of his hellions saw roaches coming. He assumed NesTea was all-inning at that point, and when a zerg all-in is coming you have to get ready to crush it convincingly, which he did. I wouldn't call that being overly cautious, it was a good read and a good response.
Honestly though, if nestea went for it when he had those first 23 banes it could have gone much better, because waiting for the next set of lings to run in let aLive get another sieged tank up in time to defend even harder.
I just ran into TT1 and Dimaga at the airport when getting out of the taxi, then ran into Dimaga again getting on to the same flight as me to MSP. I talked to him for 30 mins before boarding! Very friendly guy!
He's the best foreigner for sure and can definitely compete with mid tier koreans but as you just said he lost to all the top ones so I wouldn't go so far.
if his games were 2-0 lose against nestea/mkp, i can say you are right, but score was 2-1 with such a close games.
he is just outclassed against MMA @game 2.
MMA outclasses everyone in TvZ, except maybe DRG.
I think people underestimated how sick Stephano was in their g1 because of the show MMA put on in g2. In G1 for most of the game, Stephano had managed to deny /any/ worker kills whatsoever. Stephano is pretty damn impressive... it's just that like you say MMA's TvZ is absurd (yet he won't do an SCfou style tvp t.t).
Even in g2 i was impressed by stephano. As a former Zerg i was in horror while as current Terran i was also in awe of what MMA unleashed on poor Stephano and Stephano still managed to almost keep up with the multitasking of MMA, he even managed to get quite a huge army out. I wish i was even half as good as either of them.
na, MMA could have just 1a-ed him from the moment those 3banshees killed the third and stephano only killed one. His army was "impressive" because ultras and lings take up like infinity space and make you max really fast, compared to more expensive (lategame)efficient stuff.
MMA was pretty much playing with him at that point.
Yes, which is BM. Stephano had one option at that point - GG as soon as he was contained on two bases, which in the foreigner's scene results in him being called an IdrA, not fighting to the last, etc. Yet, the alternative to that was getitng humiliated by MMA, who refused to push because he wanted to humiliate Stephano.
MMA's behavior is a huge blow to people who think Korean pros are GM, respectful, etc., unlike foreigners. It doesn't work that way.
Lol, don't spread that bullshit here. It's the responsibility of the losing player to gg, if he's on 2 bases, he has to attempt something, MMA can just sit on his 5 bases throwing around nukes until Stephano gg's out. That's all there is to it.
Plus, as Terran with MM + tanks, you can't really push into 15+ infestors + ultras (or just super slowly). MMA was in a very good position, he just has to stay in his position and deny further zerg bases, that's it. Stephano is the one who has to gg, and didn't do it early enough, hence the taunting maneuvers like mass sensor towers, nukes and manner muling to forcefield ultras (quite funny this one :D). Stephano has this extra cockiness of saying he doesn't practice and doesn't care who he faces because he doesn't need to prepare for his opponent, it was well worth a little taunting at the end imo, and Stephano took it well I think, no harm done, not BM in the slightest.
GGing in that situation is seen as cowardly across the board. The reason Boxer is loved by people in Korea is because of his Never-GG attitude. MMA knows that well enough, being on Slayers.
Plus, Stephano did not have 15+ infestors and ultras when MMA started nuking. Watch MMA's games vs. IdrA to see his standard play vs. Zerg when he's way ahead. He doesn't nuke, he doesn't build six sensor towers, and he doesn't drag games out this long.
Don't get me wrong, Stephano does a lot of in-game ceremonies as well, but MMA dragged the game out twenty minutes with his ceremony and put the casters in a ridiculously awkward position. That was BM.
If you look at it like that, MorroW is also BM in every single lategame TvZ and ZvT he plays.
On April 10 2012 05:17 m0ck wrote: I much prefer double-elimination, it is a much better system at determining the best players. In single-elimination, match-ups>all. They are obviously important in a double-bracket system as well, but less so as every player gets to lose once without being out of the tournament. I don't agree that it is a negative thing in a final.
Pretty much, the only negative thing about the final is the loss of hype that's created by a game with uneven starting conditions, just like extended series. (Although nowhere near that bad)
To those who answered above, I was always under the impression that in MLG, if you get knocked down to the Loser's Bracket, you don't need to win an EXTENDED series nor this SECOND series is the opponent you face in the final is not someone who has already beaten you. MarineKing had this type of advantage in the final of the MLG Winter Championship because he had previously defeated DongRaeGu, hence the 'extended series' term.
I see now exactly how it works, but I had thought the system bad enough under the impression that the 'Double Elimination' part of the name comes from having the second chance of getting to the final by going all the way through the Loser's Bracket, a harder path because one lost series still means your road to the final will have to be (justifiably) longer, they are always bound to be more fatigued and if the one they face in the final will be one who knocked them down or beat them in pool play, they have the even harder extended series rule. There's simply no need for another series against a player who has proven nothing against them earlier in the tournament, when the second player has managed to get to the finals through a longer path. I think the loser's bracket (in the championship final 8), as long as it is also filled with very strong players as IPL4's was, is enough of an extended challenge. It's no fun to have someone play that many more games having come through the open bracket too and then have them win 3-2, only to be declared supposedly less deserving. After all that, who the hell do you expect to win? It would require amazing fortitude that a champion should have, but if you make sure at least some of your games are won with early rushes and get to the final through the Winner's Bracket, there is no such proof of your fortitude. Extended Series is one thing, double series requirements in the final for coming through the Loser's Bracket (especially with an Open Bracket in place as well) is not a good system for determining the best players, the conditions are just too unbalanced for the two players.
On April 10 2012 06:11 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: To those who answered above, I was always under the impression that in MLG, if you get knocked down to the Loser's Bracket, you don't need to win an EXTENDED series nor this SECOND series is the opponent you face in the final is not someone who has already beaten you. MarineKing had this type of advantage in the final of the MLG Winter Championship because he had previously defeated DongRaeGu, hence the 'extended series' term.
I see now exactly how it works, but I had thought the system bad enough under the impression that the 'Double Elimination' part of the name comes from having the second chance of getting to the final by going all the way through the Loser's Bracket, a harder path because one lost series still means your road to the final will have to be (justifiably) longer, they are always bound to be more fatigued and if the one they face in the final will be one who knocked them down or beat them in pool play, they have the even harder extended series rule. There's simply no need for another series against a player who has proven nothing against them earlier in the tournament, when the second player has managed to get to the finals through a longer path. I think the loser's bracket (in the championship final 8), as long as it is also filled with very strong players as IPL4's was, is enough of an extended challenge. It's no fun to have someone play that many more games having come through the open bracket too and then have them win 3-2, only to be declared supposedly less deserving. After all that, who the hell do you expect to win? It would require amazing fortitude that a champion should have, but if you make sure at least some of your games are won with early rushes and get to the final through the Winner's Bracket, there is no such proof of your fortitude. Extended Series is one thing, double series requirements in the final for coming through the Loser's Bracket (especially with an Open Bracket in place as well) is not a good system for determining the best players, the conditions are just too unbalanced for the two players.
It would be still unfair for the Winner, because the loser was given the CHANCE to go through the hardship to come back, while the Winner, if he loses, won't ever be given this same CHANCE.
Look at it this way, if the loser's champion wins the grand final only after one set, then:
Loser's Champ: - Lost one set the entire tournament - Chance to redeem himself through a hard Loser's bracket
Winner's Champ - Lost one set the entire tournament (to the Loser in grand final) - No chance to redeem himself
So in order to balance it out, you must give the Winner's Champ that same chance to redeem himself, and therefore they must play a 2nd set for that.
i think it sucks really bad for the person who goes to loser from winner bracket since at that point of the day after so many games, you have a possibility of having to play alot more sets. Like nestea and squirtle. Nestea more so i would say since after the alive game he went straight in to play squirtle and that went to 6 games due to a regame, imagine if he won he would have to go and play alive again in the potential best case he wins 6 games in a row. He would of played 16 games back to back. or at least 13 if he lost 3 straight. Worst case he plays 20 games. With like no "real break" i mean if you were playing since 10am i think you would be on edge right after going through loser and back up to winner in to double bo5 if you win.
EPT
Im pretty sure Stephano would have had a much better chance vs Squirtle than MMA. 
