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On April 10 2012 11:32 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 10:57 Chunhyang wrote:
I don't think anyone would complain if they made the starting conditions of the finals absolutely even. They [tourney organizers] should try it once to prove to themselves that it will be all right. They can keep the extended series rule for every other part except the final for the first try. I think they will be pleasantly surprised by the warmth of the reception for this. Erm, no, that would be completely unfair to the guy coming from the WB. Read my previous post if you don't understand why.
Yes, you make a logical point. It would mak the whole loser's and winner's idea pretty immaterial. I guess it's just hard to swallow that the edge given to the WB winner is so large.
BTW, is group play indispensible to a double elimination tourney? Maybe making it fully "brackets" might be fairer? It goes along more with the double elimination philosophy you mentioned anyway.
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4194 Posts
On April 10 2012 12:57 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 11:32 kwizach wrote:On April 10 2012 10:57 Chunhyang wrote:
I don't think anyone would complain if they made the starting conditions of the finals absolutely even. They [tourney organizers] should try it once to prove to themselves that it will be all right. They can keep the extended series rule for every other part except the final for the first try. I think they will be pleasantly surprised by the warmth of the reception for this. Erm, no, that would be completely unfair to the guy coming from the WB. Read my previous post if you don't understand why. Yes, you make a logical point. It would mak the whole loser's and winner's idea pretty immaterial. I guess it's just hard to swallow that the edge given to the WB winner is so large. BTW, is group play indispensible to a double elimination tourney? Maybe making it fully "brackets" might be fairer? It goes along more with the double elimination philosophy you mentioned anyway.
Group play provides seeding for the brackets. Also important, they insure that every participant in the tournament get to play a certain number of games.
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2 things.
MMA vs. Stephano game 2 was wonderful. Quite a few laughs were had.
I don't understand why every zerg in the world needs to claim that they don't practice. -_-;
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![[image loading]](http://alexsong.net/2012/ipl4/ipl033.jpg)
one of my favorites from the first day... some of the IPL ladies were having fun braiding TLO's wild mane. you also can't see it, but the back of his hair is also ponytailed as well, lol
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On April 10 2012 12:57 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 11:32 kwizach wrote:On April 10 2012 10:57 Chunhyang wrote:
I don't think anyone would complain if they made the starting conditions of the finals absolutely even. They [tourney organizers] should try it once to prove to themselves that it will be all right. They can keep the extended series rule for every other part except the final for the first try. I think they will be pleasantly surprised by the warmth of the reception for this. Erm, no, that would be completely unfair to the guy coming from the WB. Read my previous post if you don't understand why. Yes, you make a logical point. It would mak the whole loser's and winner's idea pretty immaterial. I guess it's just hard to swallow that the edge given to the WB winner is so large. BTW, is group play indispensible to a double elimination tourney? Maybe making it fully "brackets" might be fairer? It goes along more with the double elimination philosophy you mentioned anyway.
I think one of the problems is that it becomes 2 Bo5s in the final, as opposed to 2 Bo3s everywhere else. Winning 2 Bo5s back-to-back is a monumental task. You could argue that the point of double elim is to avoid the flukes that are inherent in Bo3 or Bo1 format, while still being possible for a weekend tournament. However, I don't think most people will argue that a Bo5 result is a fluke. IMO, players should be protected from a bad Bo3 ending their tournament. That doesn't extend to protecting them from getting straight-up beaten in a longer series, which is far less likely to be fluky. If they want to keep double elim for the finals, it should be two Bo3s, because that's how it's been the entire tournament, or make it a single longer series that clearly demonstrates the better player.
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On April 09 2012 16:27 yuengLing wrote:Alive best terran in the world!! Thats how this works right?? 
Unfortunately, thats how most people think
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On April 09 2012 16:34 vthree wrote:
Well, players like DRG, MVP, MMA, Nestea, mc set such high standards...
i miss MVP so much TT
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If they want to keep double elim for the finals, it should be two Bo3s, because that's how it's been the entire tournament, or make it a single longer series that clearly demonstrates the better player.
Well, it was Bo5 for the Winners Semis and Losers Finals so it would have been wierd to change back to Bo3 for Grand Finals. However, I do feel that since it was double elim, Bo3 for the whole tournaments would have been ok as well.
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On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude.
There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general.
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On April 10 2012 18:18 ReadySetFire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 16:27 yuengLing wrote:Alive best terran in the world!! Thats how this works right?? Unfortunately, thats how most people think
Well no, but I wouldn't place him that far from it, reaching the RO4 in Code S and then winning IPL4, knocking out tons of top players, I think he deserves some respect. I mean he's no MKP, MMA or MVP etc, but other than them I don't think there are too many players better than him right now.
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On April 10 2012 18:53 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude. There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general.
I don't think it is a big deal, but it was at least very annoying for someone like me, who just wanted to catch as much as possible of an already overly long tournament.
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Netherlands1446 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:53 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude. There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general.
How would you rate not showing up for matches repeatedly without notifying the tournament staff or your opponent, keeping your opponent waiting for hours on end? Because that's what the guy you quoted is referring to. I'd say MMA's BM (if you would even consider it BM) was more than justified for the stunt Stephano pulled at Iron Squid.
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On April 10 2012 19:05 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 18:53 bgx wrote:On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude. There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general. I don't think it is a big deal, but it was at least very annoying for someone like me, who just wanted to catch as much as possible of an already overly long tournament.
Stephano could at any point have a-moved his army and gg'ed. He didn't. Who are we to judge how Stephano could have felt about MMAs BM?
From what i saw:
MMA wanted to create a show to please the crowd and stephano went with it. It was for the laughs, nothing personal.
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Doesn't matter!
Stephanos rigerous and even in korea well respected work ethics will carry him to bonjwa-status anyway, a little unwarranted humiliation is nothing for him.
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On April 10 2012 19:10 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 19:05 Big J wrote:On April 10 2012 18:53 bgx wrote:On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude. There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general. I don't think it is a big deal, but it was at least very annoying for someone like me, who just wanted to catch as much as possible of an already overly long tournament. Stephano could at any point have a-moved his army and gg'ed. He didn't. Who are we to judge how Stephano could have felt about MMAs BM? From what i saw: MMA wanted to create a show to please the crowd and stephano went with it. It was for the laughs, nothing personal.
I actually think that Stephano looked really frustrated/on edge/"broken" during the "overtime"; I don't think it was due to MMA's showoff though, rather the absurdly grueling style (hi, four-pronged attack by four-handed korean terran) he had to fight against in an already high-pressure situation.
I would say in general that there didn't seem to be bad blood, just funny bm.
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On April 10 2012 19:32 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 19:10 Morfildur wrote:On April 10 2012 19:05 Big J wrote:On April 10 2012 18:53 bgx wrote:On April 10 2012 10:36 vthree wrote:My problem with him is that he dragged it out too long. A nuke ceremony is 4-5 nukes dropping as you push into the opponent's base - that's cool and awesome. Trying to nuke for 15-20 minutes and landing 2-3 good ones out of the two dozen you used is just dumb, and it is BM in the same way saying why haven't you left yet to your opponent is BM.
Good manners as we think of it in the foreigner's community is playing your best to win when victory is still within grasp, and finishing it in a timely manner when it's over. Lifting all your buildings as Terran when you've lost and flying them to the corners of the map is sore loser behavior and is BM. Excessively taunting your opponent and dragging the game out after you've won is sore winner behavior and is also BM. In this case I think Stephano, given the information he had, was within the limit of good manners to try and make a comeback. MMA, however, knew he had won - nobody builds six sensor towers in the same location without thinking that. Although it was kinda BM to have so many nukes and sensor towers from MMA, I think it has to do with what happened during Iron Squid. Probably not happy with Stephano's unprofessional attitude. There are 2 types of BM, one is for laughs semi-serious("oh just get out!") and second is personal or spirit crushing type. To me it seemed closer to the 2nd. Maybe its only me but i think MMA wanted to showcase something, either there was something personal between him and Stephano or he was targeting foreigners as general. I don't think it is a big deal, but it was at least very annoying for someone like me, who just wanted to catch as much as possible of an already overly long tournament. Stephano could at any point have a-moved his army and gg'ed. He didn't. Who are we to judge how Stephano could have felt about MMAs BM? From what i saw: MMA wanted to create a show to please the crowd and stephano went with it. It was for the laughs, nothing personal. I actually think that Stephano looked really frustrated/on edge/"broken" during the "overtime"; I don't think it was due to MMA's showoff though, rather the absurdly grueling style (hi, four-pronged attack by four-handed korean terran) he had to fight against in an already high-pressure situation. I would say in general that there didn't seem to be bad blood, just funny bm.
Stephano always has that look on his face while playing, and he also says he is completely emotionless during play.
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On April 10 2012 18:57 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 18:18 ReadySetFire wrote:On April 09 2012 16:27 yuengLing wrote:Alive best terran in the world!! Thats how this works right?? Unfortunately, thats how most people think Well no, but I wouldn't place him that far from it, reaching the RO4 in Code S and then winning IPL4, knocking out tons of top players, I think he deserves some respect. I mean he's no MKP, MMA or MVP etc, but other than them I don't think there are too many players better than him right now.
If he wins the MLG Arenas and MLG championship, or if he wins a GSL on top of this, or something of that sort, then yes.
MKP had a dominant month, he was def. the best player in march/april
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4194 Posts
On April 10 2012 23:40 Ouroborosian wrote:
Terran domination, son.
Funny how people resolve in thoughtless complaints about racial imbalance when it's always the same Terrans that post the results. It's less that the races are inherently balanced but rather that these Terrans who post the results are the very, very best players.
In addition, consider the amount of patches that have been applied to stifle Terran dominance. Each time the race is substantially handicapped via some unit's (or units') abilities being diminished, the domination still bursts the seams.
Terran domination, dad.
Yeah, we've heard this argument since release - it's not that there is a balance problem, it's just that the terrans are simply better players than the zergs. That's why 80% of the korean top terans have vs Z as their best match-up, not that there is a problem with the match-up..
I think that is an extremely stupid argument, and one you can use to justify any imbalance.
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On April 10 2012 19:29 Gajarell wrote:
Doesn't matter!
Stephanos rigerous and even in korea well respected work ethics will carry him to bonjwa-status anyway, a little unwarranted humiliation is nothing for him.
A little loose with the B_____ word there. I doubt the Koreans would respect him if he acted towards a Korean team the way he acts towards Millennium; or if he skips out on tournaments, contracts, show-matches and what-not .
Although I think its a moot point, as far as I can tell he is about to retire.
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EPT
