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[GSTL] 2012 Season 1 Grand Finals - Page 487

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Everyone knows the drill by now.

Keep it manner and have a good time.

We'll be watching along with you.
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
April 08 2012 16:15 GMT
#9721
On April 09 2012 00:48 Vertical wrote:
Question : how did GSTL 2012 Season 1 ended ?
Answer : Prime sends out MarineKing.....

Answer : MarineKing un-plugs his PC when he needs it.

User was warned for this post
iSunrise
Profile Joined June 2011
3302 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 16:29:51
April 08 2012 16:25 GMT
#9722
On April 09 2012 00:56 Fubi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 00:41 ppdealer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:45 noddy wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:30 Serinox wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:18 Gandhi wrote:
Posted in another thread:

Here's something to think about: If the game had DC'd when Bomber was calling down a manner mule in the game vs. MKP, would you have given the win to Bomber?


No, because they were very even and Bombers drop failed.


They weren't even. Bomber had double the SCVs, a third base.

MarineKing had one mining base and barely had an army. He lost the game at that point.


That's completely wrong, did you even watch the game? MKP had over twice the amount Siege Tanks Bomber had, and a much higher army supply overall. How do you think he won the base trade? Not because of his superior micro that's for sure. In his game against Parting, he had no army left, his main and natural 5 seconds away from Parting's 50 supply army full of chargelots, Blink Stalkers, and HTs, and more warping in directly in his base from a Warp Prism.

You can easily defend a base with 2 seige tanks (1 more popping out) against 5. It was a 80% win if bomber simply sat in his base until he maxes out before MKP, and attack. MKP had half the # of workers, and 1 mining base vs 2.

Bomber messed up, because players make mistakes, and because they don't know what we know.

And this is the exact reason why the regame is justified. Parting does NOT know what MKP has, what his production are, when his next wave of units are going to pop out, etc. So yes, from OUR point of view, if he can definitely win if he does this, and that. But that's theorycrafting; we can't assume that Parting really would of done this and that. Parting might of tries to play it safe (safe from his point of view) and pull back, get his economy back up more, and attack when he has a much bigger army; but at that point MKP would of recovered part of his army and might be able to win with his micro. The point is, we won't know for a fact what players will do FROM THEIR point of view.

A regame is never justified. It´s a needed instrument to solve problems that arise when there is no other solution for, technology wise, people wise or something else. People are only arguing over this, because technology failed. PartinG mentally had the upper hand in this, he destroyed everything MKP could throw at him. Several times.

Technology is why we have eSports, and we all love Esports. But technology shouldn´t stand still, it should help the players avoid such situations, but Blizzard does stand in the way. Everyone that works in marketing talks about "innovation". The truth though is that companies want money, and real innovation often requires to make some tough calls and it can also be very expensive. So exactly where are the tough calls?

GOM did the right thing, they are a very professional organization. But that doesn´t mean that a regame is ever "justified". Don´t make it sound like you don´t know that. You are way more intelligent than that, I can see that in your good posts.
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
April 08 2012 16:30 GMT
#9723
On April 09 2012 01:25 iSunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 00:56 Fubi wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:41 ppdealer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:45 noddy wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:30 Serinox wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:18 Gandhi wrote:
Posted in another thread:

Here's something to think about: If the game had DC'd when Bomber was calling down a manner mule in the game vs. MKP, would you have given the win to Bomber?


No, because they were very even and Bombers drop failed.


They weren't even. Bomber had double the SCVs, a third base.

MarineKing had one mining base and barely had an army. He lost the game at that point.


That's completely wrong, did you even watch the game? MKP had over twice the amount Siege Tanks Bomber had, and a much higher army supply overall. How do you think he won the base trade? Not because of his superior micro that's for sure. In his game against Parting, he had no army left, his main and natural 5 seconds away from Parting's 50 supply army full of chargelots, Blink Stalkers, and HTs, and more warping in directly in his base from a Warp Prism.

You can easily defend a base with 2 seige tanks (1 more popping out) against 5. It was a 80% win if bomber simply sat in his base until he maxes out before MKP, and attack. MKP had half the # of workers, and 1 mining base vs 2.

Bomber messed up, because players make mistakes, and because they don't know what we know.

And this is the exact reason why the regame is justified. Parting does NOT know what MKP has, what his production are, when his next wave of units are going to pop out, etc. So yes, from OUR point of view, if he can definitely win if he does this, and that. But that's theorycrafting; we can't assume that Parting really would of done this and that. Parting might of tries to play it safe (safe from his point of view) and pull back, get his economy back up more, and attack when he has a much bigger army; but at that point MKP would of recovered part of his army and might be able to win with his micro. The point is, we won't know for a fact what players will do FROM THEIR point of view.

A regame is never justified. It´s a needed instrument to solve problems that arrive when there is no other solution for, technology wise, people wise or something else. People are only arguing over this, because technology failed. PartinG mentally had the upper hand in this, he destroyed everything MKP could throw at him. Several times.

Technology is why we have eSports, and we all love Esports. But technology shouldn´t stand still, it should help the players avoid such situations, but Blizzard does stand in the way. Everyone that works in marketing talks about "innovation". The truth though is that companies want money, and real innovation often requires to make some tough calls and it can also be very expensive. So exactly where are the tough calls?

GOM did the right thing, they are a very professional organization. But that doesn´t mean that a regame is ever "justified". Don´t make it sound like you don´t know that. You are way more intelligent than that, I can see that in your good posts.

Depends how you define "justified", because by your definition, it wasn't justified to give parting the game either. So either way, yea you're right, we should just be blaming Blizzard.
noddy
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom927 Posts
April 08 2012 16:33 GMT
#9724
On April 09 2012 01:15 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 00:48 Vertical wrote:
Question : how did GSTL 2012 Season 1 ended ?
Answer : Prime sends out MarineKing.....

Answer : MarineKing un-plugs his PC when he needs it.


Terrible accusation. Go away.
evaunit01
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States512 Posts
April 08 2012 16:51 GMT
#9725
gg prime!
Gamertag: William T. Riker - My life for Aiur!
CarpetmoOse
Profile Joined February 2012
United States22 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 17:01:31
April 08 2012 17:00 GMT
#9726
Look at his army count and say "sure he had more." But You are forgetting very VERY key things.

1.) Partings minerals are nearly mined out if you look on the map.
2.) I can have 16 zealots vs MKP too, one problems. THEY ARE AT PARTINGS BASE except maybe 4 of them.. When the lag out happened, he killed the colossus, and had 6 stalkers max there, which mkp had more of an army coming. + how many times did MKP use his marauders to kill 10+ zealots with 5 marauders only?
3.) "He won": What would he have gotten to take out? 3 barak's and a base with no minerals or gas left anyways?

Oh, and imagine of MKP still had his bnkers there or just made one really fast. Yea, no sentry's out to FF the workers off. Now what does that mean, a hold off right?

regame was the fairest thing there. And say MKP sucks and doesn't deserve it... thats why he just beat the next 3 after parting right?

**edit** oh, and you can't forget we aren't able to look at the actual standing armys health. what if all of partings guys were sub 35%? yea...
"Moral of this story is.. Hurry up, or else you will miss the bus." - Grubby
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
April 08 2012 17:06 GMT
#9727
the judge made the regame decision because mkp was by far the fan favorite and they didnt want to disappoint the fans. it was an unjust call. mkp was partially at fault because any pro gamer in that situation wouldve know that defeat was imminent and he shouldve made the decision easier by speaking up.

all that drama aside mkp plays was amazing to say the least and those were some amazing games. those splits mm splits vs fungals and storm are just ridiculous.
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
April 08 2012 17:10 GMT
#9728
On April 08 2012 23:41 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 21:04 TaKemE wrote:
you know better then Korean pro referees?


That's an unhealthy attitude, it must be allowed to criticize and disagree.


Also I don't know which Korean referees who made the call, saw quite a few tweets from pro gamers both Korean and foreigners that all thought PartinG should get the win, I don't think I saw one who said it should be regame or go in favor of mkp.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
April 08 2012 17:16 GMT
#9729
I don't understand how anyone can watch that game, see the way parting was playing and actually think that he would of had any chance of losing it from the position he got himself into. Parting and startale got robbed of a hard earned victory plain and simple.
brrip
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom211 Posts
April 08 2012 17:17 GMT
#9730
On April 09 2012 02:06 aintz wrote:
the judge made the regame decision because mkp was by far the fan favorite and they didnt want to disappoint the fans. it was an unjust call. mkp was partially at fault because any pro gamer in that situation wouldve know that defeat was imminent and he shouldve made the decision easier by speaking up.

all that drama aside mkp plays was amazing to say the least and those were some amazing games. those splits mm splits vs fungals and storm are just ridiculous.


that is absolutely ridiculous reasoning. judges don't make decision to regame, that's the default option UNLESS there's very good reason to call it in one player's favour.
Desiato
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada185 Posts
April 08 2012 17:20 GMT
#9731
On April 09 2012 02:06 aintz wrote:
the judge made the regame decision because mkp was by far the fan favorite and they didnt want to disappoint the fans. it was an unjust call.


Wild speculation and insane conspiracy theories involving corrupt judges are completely unnecessary when determining the motives for the referee's decision. The referees simply thought the game was too close to call, you may disagree with it but it was their decision to make.
CarpetmoOse
Profile Joined February 2012
United States22 Posts
April 08 2012 17:24 GMT
#9732
On April 09 2012 02:06 aintz wrote: mkp was partially at fault because any pro gamer in that situation wouldve know that defeat was imminent and he shouldve made the decision easier by speaking up.


You mean like Bomber when he went against mkp right?...

Yea thats what I thought...
"Moral of this story is.. Hurry up, or else you will miss the bus." - Grubby
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 17:31:04
April 08 2012 17:28 GMT
#9733
anybody with an understanding of the game, especially those who play terran, knows what would happen next. but you can keep thinking whatever you want.

what about bomber vs mkp? i stopped watching after the dc because i knew what the result would be. judging from recent play mkp is better than all of the startale roster including parting.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 17:42:20
April 08 2012 17:40 GMT
#9734
Having referees calling the shot is always less favored, regardless of circumstances. Though it was a dire situation for MKP in the first game against Farting, I could understand that the organization's unwillingness to pick the winner.

At least in the 2nd game, MKP did not cheese or anything. Both played exactly the same (those Korean manners!), but MKP executed his timing better this time.

Not the best situation but I think they made lemonade out of lemon.
Marcus420
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada1923 Posts
April 08 2012 18:16 GMT
#9735
i know im late to the party, but wow... wonder what the results couldve been if MKP didnt drop (he was likely to lose that game)
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
April 08 2012 18:26 GMT
#9736
Gee p Wee g
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
DreamOen
Profile Joined March 2010
Spain1400 Posts
April 08 2012 18:26 GMT
#9737
i said that when I saw him at the winter arena, he will win the GSL , impressive how high level he is playing. And ofc by I mean MKP
Tester | MC | Crank | Flash | Jaedong | MVP
SaWse
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium102 Posts
April 08 2012 18:27 GMT
#9738
Disgusting how everyone is praising mkp while he would've lost set 1
AzureD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States320 Posts
April 08 2012 19:19 GMT
#9739
None of the arguments matter for how certain MKP loss was going to be. Not until we get to see the actual replay and not some vods. We do not know how hurt Parting's army was, how much info he had, where his army was, what MKP had coming out of his rax, how soon MKP army was going to pop from his rax, where MKP army was, the CD on Parting's warp gates, and did MKP pull any SCV. Will the Warp Prism survive with 6 vikings having just been built? Will Parting stay and kill the rax or move strait to main? I really wish the production tab was open instead of the army tab. It would have been far more telling.

We do not know what decisions Parting and MKP would make at that point based on the information they could see.

Anyone who says 100% victory hasn't seen enough starcraft games where people have come back from far worse than 30 supply deficits. At that single snapshot of a game it maybe looks like 90% victory for Parting due to imperfect information.
NachiMe
Profile Joined November 2011
250 Posts
April 08 2012 19:21 GMT
#9740
Quick question, wasn't MVP supposed to be at this event? Where did he go?
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