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On March 23 2012 21:37 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:35 SeventhPride wrote:On March 23 2012 21:34 drbrown wrote:On March 23 2012 21:33 itsjuspeter wrote:
This is why the pheonix upgrade does NOT work, switch to roach and all of a sudden you have no ground army. That wasn't the problem here, he got outplayed Come on, he got outplayed hard losing his phoenix even with 3 range advantage, AND he used only 1 control key to fight mutas. That really didn't look like Hero, chasing after mutas with zealots and colossus. It was strange...and unfortunate as well that he went for colossus instead of his usual awesome templar play.
Agreed, HerO sure was making quite a few execution errors during the game that was so unlike him. On the other hand, going for the Phoenix route really wan't the best choice as a response to the Mutas, they really were so useless after the Mutas were gone 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 23 2012 21:37 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:35 SeventhPride wrote:On March 23 2012 21:34 drbrown wrote:On March 23 2012 21:33 itsjuspeter wrote:
This is why the pheonix upgrade does NOT work, switch to roach and all of a sudden you have no ground army. That wasn't the problem here, he got outplayed Come on, he got outplayed hard losing his phoenix even with 3 range advantage, AND he used only 1 control key to fight mutas. That really didn't look like Hero, chasing after mutas with zealots and colossus. It was strange...and unfortunate as well that he went for colossus instead of his usual awesome templar play.
I would wager it was the pressure of the game, both players were making errors as noted by the casters.
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On March 23 2012 21:37 Gamegene wrote:
HerO is not going to be getting any good results for a while. There's no way he's not depressed right now.
Well i hope his "not getting any good results for a while" stops before tuesday next week.
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United States97277 Posts
On March 23 2012 21:38 vndods wrote:
stayed up from 5:30AM to 8:30AM to watch this TT
goodnight everybody.
You're not the only one. Time to sleep before MLG
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On March 23 2012 21:37 6BiT wrote:damn you mc for leaving ogs
MC was never that great at team league. Hero's nerves affecting I guess
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On March 23 2012 21:33 Tek_ wrote:
A perfect example of why the Phoenix upgrade is crap, killing all the Mutas isn't enough (even with perfect control) as the next tech switch is unstoppable.
Hey I'm love HerO as much as anyone but -random gateway unit pressure that doesn't fool Leenock at all into stargate pressure (builds 2 voids, not the standard one) that does absolutely no damage besides forcing 2 spores (only one phoenix, no queens lift, forces one cancel on Z 4th) isn't the best opening. Into actually losing the phoenixs too muta because of miscontrol, coupled with some earlier mistakes, such as not pulling probes when the mutas first came in, means you can't just shit on the upgrade, as the whole game wasn't the best from HerO. The point of that upgrade is that it makes like 7 or 8 really well controlled phoenix almost impossible to hit with muta. Going double stargate seems to defy the point of that, as it just lets you make mass phoenix.
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On March 23 2012 21:38 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:35 Dr_Jones wrote:
Pretty sure P should just 2 base all in every game, it's the only way to beat Z... No, Hero went Stargate and didn't do enough with it. Stargate openings are all doomed the same way unless there is a major revolution in using them. I think there is a certain french protoss which is on to something in this area though. Nevertheless, PvZ will look lopsided like that when the Zerg isn't sufficiently halted or the Protoss doesn't expand aggressively.
I am pretty sure genius stargate opening is good. He used it in game 1 to defeat drg. of course, he derp around in the end, but his first game was solid example of how good his opening is
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That game resembles the In Utter Darkness mission in the Campaign. There was no way Hero was going to be able to hold both fronts after Leenock was able to drone drone drone and take a ton of bases. Still, was really good to see the Phoenix Range upgrade.
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On March 23 2012 21:34 drbrown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:33 itsjuspeter wrote:
This is why the pheonix upgrade does NOT work, switch to roach and all of a sudden you have no ground army. That wasn't the problem here, he got outplayed
well, the phoenix play spread Hero even thiner than he was already...
I mean opening stargate for void rays, then going immortal + colossi with range + gateways of 2base while expanding and then switching into double starport mass phoenix + fleet beacon and phoenix upgrade; Leenock had a ton of different stuff as well, but he got the damage in with the mutas, he deflected the voids with the few hydras etc etc. Every investment of Leenock paid off, hardly any of Hero really did what he wanted it to do.
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TLO says this a lot: the best way to deal with phoenix is just have a lot of larvae.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 23 2012 21:39 SeventhPride wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:38 Plexa wrote:On March 23 2012 21:35 Dr_Jones wrote:
Pretty sure P should just 2 base all in every game, it's the only way to beat Z... No, Hero went Stargate and didn't do enough with it. Stargate openings are all doomed the same way unless there is a major revolution in using them. I think there is a certain french protoss which is on to something in this area though. Nevertheless, PvZ will look lopsided like that when the Zerg isn't sufficiently halted or the Protoss doesn't expand aggressively. I am pretty sure genius stargate opening is good. He used it in game 1 to defeat drg. of course, he derp around in the end, but his first game was solid example of how good his opening is
Ya Genius style is pretty good as well.
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On March 23 2012 21:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:38 vndods wrote:
stayed up from 5:30AM to 8:30AM to watch this TT
goodnight everybody. You're not the only one. Time to sleep before MLG
HIGH FIVE! ^_^
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On March 23 2012 21:39 Mobius_1 wrote:
That game resembles the In Utter Darkness mission in the Campaign. There was no way Hero was going to be able to hold both fronts after Leenock was able to drone drone drone and take a ton of bases. Still, was really good to see the Phoenix Range upgrade.
Yeah... Did anyone see hero's hotkeys? Its like he was messed up or something. And plus leenock attacking all 3 base at the same time really really spread him thin
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On March 23 2012 21:37 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:35 rothsbury wrote:On March 23 2012 21:33 Tek_ wrote:
A perfect example of why the Phoenix upgrade is crap, killing all the Mutas isn't enough (even with perfect control) as the next tech switch is unstoppable. Not really; he didn't even micro his phoenix well enough to utilise the upgrade. Also it was designed to help against zerg who mass mass mass mutas. Against players who make just a dozen or so then switch out of it you obviously want a much more measured response. How can anyone predict how many mutas a zerg make? It's really easy to go from pressing M to pressing R, I'm really sad hero lost he looks devastated.
It takes a lot of time to mass a huge amount of mutas (to the point that the phoenix upgrade becomes necessary). So you should be able to tell if the zerg is building to that point, unless he's doing something stupid like hiding mutas or saving a fuckton of gas. A zerg suddenly building a lot of mutas is definitely a challenge, but his economy limits how many he can suddenly make, and that many mutas can be dealt with without the phoenix upgrade.
Edit: stray word.
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On March 23 2012 21:38 Rammstorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 23 2012 21:33 Tek_ wrote:
A perfect example of why the Phoenix upgrade is crap, killing all the Mutas isn't enough (even with perfect control) as the next tech switch is unstoppable. the ugprade does what its supposed to do, allow Protoss to kill huge numbers of mutas. What? You want a single unit that kills everything Zerg can throw at you? Sorry, this game doesn't work that way. Archons say Hi 
Roaches say Hi too..
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On March 23 2012 21:35 rothsbury wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 21:33 Tek_ wrote:
A perfect example of why the Phoenix upgrade is crap, killing all the Mutas isn't enough (even with perfect control) as the next tech switch is unstoppable. Not really; he didn't even micro his phoenix well enough to utilise the upgrade. Also it was designed to help against zerg who mass mass mass mutas. Against players who make just a dozen or so then switch out of it you obviously want a much more measured response.
The micro didn't matter, at all, but the rest of your post is correct. As a Protoss you just cannot go for the Phoenix upgrade to deal with Mutas, the only way it works is if the Zerg keeps building Mutas after seeing the Phoenixes which no competent Zerg would do. Anyway, GG to Leenock, he played really well in a normally tough ZvP map.
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I can't see the finals not being MVP vs Prime. It's an upset if anything other than that happens.
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can anyone summarize the last game for me? I can't find the LR unfortunately and I missed it.
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Starcraft on Ice? What the balls?
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On March 23 2012 21:41 bittman wrote:
I can't see the finals not being MVP vs Prime. It's an upset if anything other than that happens.
I sure hope it will be. With Prime winning this time!
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EPT
