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On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital?
Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost.
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On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost.
Maybe there is a reason he didn't go for medivacs... You make it sound like they were playing tic tac toe.
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On February 12 2012 12:21 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? nono, the very early siege
never mind, dont bother
their all idiots who claim either "idra has bad manner" and then call him "shit" or "terrible, horrible person" (hyprocritical?) or they try to, as in this case, judge player skill by a build order win
their hopeless
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So I may be dumb, and please point me to the correct source material if you can, but how does NASL handle the server situation in it's team league? IdrA and Puma are in Korea and both of their opponents were in Europe and that has about the worst lag problem you can conceive of. Do they server swap or both play on NA or what?
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On February 12 2012 12:23 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost. Maybe there is a reason he didn't go for medivacs... You make it sound like they were playing tic tac toe.
nope
its that zerg cant scout cross map in time so either you metagame and allin or your counter meta game and make them think your allining but dont all in and then they metametagame you and ETC ETC
its very coinflippy early-midgame
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On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost.
Lolwut. Thorzain went triple expand and he held off an all-in that should have theoretically killed him outright. Idra's timings were pretty wrong (as sheth stated he didnt do it correctly), he then A-moved into glory. Thorzain had ONE tank on the cliff, it didnt even occur to idra not to go towards it or bring one overlord.
Outplayed is the word we are looking for.
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except that if you go triple orbital,you have to do something defensive,its not like hellons are going to do the trick.
his build wasnt blind counter idras allin,its a very well thought macro build.
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On February 12 2012 12:24 HolyExlxF wrote:
So I may be dumb, and please point me to the correct source material if you can, but how does NASL handle the server situation in it's team league? IdrA and Puma are in Korea and both of their opponents were in Europe and that has about the worst lag problem you can conceive of. Do they server swap or both play on NA or what?
I think they played NA
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On February 12 2012 12:24 HolyExlxF wrote:
So I may be dumb, and please point me to the correct source material if you can, but how does NASL handle the server situation in it's team league? IdrA and Puma are in Korea and both of their opponents were in Europe and that has about the worst lag problem you can conceive of. Do they server swap or both play on NA or what?
They play NA if EU vs KR, EU if EU vs EU, NA if NA vs NA, KR if KR vs KR, and alternate if NA vs KR or EU vs NA
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On February 12 2012 12:25 clementdudu wrote:
except that if you go triple orbital,you have to do something defensive,its not like hellons are going to do the trick.
his build wasnt blind counter idras allin,its a very well thought macro build.
its bombers, i think day9 did a daily on it if you want to check it out
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On February 12 2012 12:25 TankinShit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost. Lolwut. Thorzain went triple expand and he held off an all-in that should have theoretically killed him outright. Idra's timings were pretty wrong (as sheth stated he didnt do it correctly), he then A-moved into glory. Thorzain had ONE tank on the cliff, it didnt even occur to idra not to go towards it or bring one overlord. Outplayed is the word we are looking for.
outplayed = build order when, then
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On February 12 2012 12:25 clementdudu wrote:
except that if you go triple orbital,you have to do something defensive,its not like hellons are going to do the trick.
his build wasnt blind counter idras allin,its a very well thought macro build.
That build is incredibly good, yeah :c
That early siege was pretty much a hard counter, even though Idra's execution wasn't the best
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On February 12 2012 12:24 HolyExlxF wrote:
So I may be dumb, and please point me to the correct source material if you can, but how does NASL handle the server situation in it's team league? IdrA and Puma are in Korea and both of their opponents were in Europe and that has about the worst lag problem you can conceive of. Do they server swap or both play on NA or what?
Well Morrow's in Korea too, right?
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On February 12 2012 12:27 choraldo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:24 HolyExlxF wrote:
So I may be dumb, and please point me to the correct source material if you can, but how does NASL handle the server situation in it's team league? IdrA and Puma are in Korea and both of their opponents were in Europe and that has about the worst lag problem you can conceive of. Do they server swap or both play on NA or what? Well Morrow's in Korea too, right?
yes
PuMa vs morrow was KR server, i betcha
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On February 12 2012 12:20 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:02 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:59 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:56 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:54 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:48 Phobbers wrote:On February 12 2012 11:46 s4life wrote:
Lol.. that was so pathetic by Idra.... a game that would really make you re-evaluate your career up to this point.. he's so freaking predictable, robotic. Predictable? Robotic? Yeah, those are terms I would use to describe Idra in terms of his macro and going for the macro game. But saying those things when he did an all-in? Not at all. He started the game with the mindset of going allin, when he saw that siege mode was finished he should have turned around and go for a straight game, he would be behind, but have a chance, but since he can't adapt(robotic) he still tried to bust the front, he threw the game right there That was an all-in. You can't come back from something like that against a player like Tzain, I think. So good siege timing ;o Yes it would be hard, but trying to fight the ramp with siege was the only choice that had 0% of winning. The alternative would be to fall back on 33 drones and no Lair to try and play a straight game against a terran macro opening... Idra would not have won that, unless Tzain killed his own CC, walked 20 marines over 2 bling bombs, and left his tanks in the middle of the map to be plucked by mutas, while he had his marines on /dance in heart formation outside his base EDIT: Now that would be a sight to see  yah, you have to hope that thorzain has his pants down. older Idra would probably have left without even all-inning, so in terms of progress, its some -.- its just people shit on him for playing macro all day, and shit he all ins for having bad mindset -.- Come on >< People don't care he allins, people care that they want to see him play the freaking game, and not just seeing a tank and still amoving his army to oblivion.
100% of the other zerg players would have continued to play that game. They would have microed, stationed their roaches behind the mineral line out of range of the tanks, delayed some mining while droning, well at least tried something. The tank opening has no marine and no medivac, he was behind but not so behind that a superior skill can't overcome the deficit.
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On February 12 2012 12:26 Rulker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:25 TankinShit wrote:On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost. Lolwut. Thorzain went triple expand and he held off an all-in that should have theoretically killed him outright. Idra's timings were pretty wrong (as sheth stated he didnt do it correctly), he then A-moved into glory. Thorzain had ONE tank on the cliff, it didnt even occur to idra not to go towards it or bring one overlord. Outplayed is the word we are looking for. outplayed = build order when, then
nop, could have been build order LOSS for thorzain, and I bet the Idra fan boys would have done two things;
1. ignore the fact Idra all-in'd , whereas if idra got all-in'd they'd say (HE JUST GOT ALL-IN'D WASN'T EVEN A GAME ONEONEON@#!@#
2. would say thorzain played too greedy
thorzain outright OWNED idra, incontrol got SHAT on
I stand by my words
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On February 12 2012 12:31 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:20 CeriseCherries wrote:On February 12 2012 12:02 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:59 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:56 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:54 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:48 Phobbers wrote:On February 12 2012 11:46 s4life wrote:
Lol.. that was so pathetic by Idra.... a game that would really make you re-evaluate your career up to this point.. he's so freaking predictable, robotic. Predictable? Robotic? Yeah, those are terms I would use to describe Idra in terms of his macro and going for the macro game. But saying those things when he did an all-in? Not at all. He started the game with the mindset of going allin, when he saw that siege mode was finished he should have turned around and go for a straight game, he would be behind, but have a chance, but since he can't adapt(robotic) he still tried to bust the front, he threw the game right there That was an all-in. You can't come back from something like that against a player like Tzain, I think. So good siege timing ;o Yes it would be hard, but trying to fight the ramp with siege was the only choice that had 0% of winning. The alternative would be to fall back on 33 drones and no Lair to try and play a straight game against a terran macro opening... Idra would not have won that, unless Tzain killed his own CC, walked 20 marines over 2 bling bombs, and left his tanks in the middle of the map to be plucked by mutas, while he had his marines on /dance in heart formation outside his base EDIT: Now that would be a sight to see yah, you have to hope that thorzain has his pants down. older Idra would probably have left without even all-inning, so in terms of progress, its some -.- its just people shit on him for playing macro all day, and shit he all ins for having bad mindset -.- Come on >< People don't care he allins, people care that they want to see him play the freaking game, and not just seeing a tank and still amoving his army to oblivion. 100% of the other zerg players would have continued to play that game. They would have microed, stationed their roaches behind the mineral line out of range of the tanks, delayed some mining while droning, well at least tried something. The tank opening has no marine and no medivac, he was behind but not so behind that a superior skill can't overcome the deficit.
Even if he did do that, Tzain was ahead on tech, and waaaay ahead on economy. As I previously said, he would fall back on 33 drones and no Lair against triple orbital... A comeback like that would be close to impossible against a player like Tzain, I think
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Can someone please tell me why EG would pick incontrol over HuK? In fact, they never ever pick HuK for clan wars.. Is he not available or something?
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On February 12 2012 12:33 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:31 MrCon wrote:On February 12 2012 12:20 CeriseCherries wrote:On February 12 2012 12:02 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:59 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:56 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 11:54 DDie wrote:On February 12 2012 11:48 Phobbers wrote:On February 12 2012 11:46 s4life wrote:
Lol.. that was so pathetic by Idra.... a game that would really make you re-evaluate your career up to this point.. he's so freaking predictable, robotic. Predictable? Robotic? Yeah, those are terms I would use to describe Idra in terms of his macro and going for the macro game. But saying those things when he did an all-in? Not at all. He started the game with the mindset of going allin, when he saw that siege mode was finished he should have turned around and go for a straight game, he would be behind, but have a chance, but since he can't adapt(robotic) he still tried to bust the front, he threw the game right there That was an all-in. You can't come back from something like that against a player like Tzain, I think. So good siege timing ;o Yes it would be hard, but trying to fight the ramp with siege was the only choice that had 0% of winning. The alternative would be to fall back on 33 drones and no Lair to try and play a straight game against a terran macro opening... Idra would not have won that, unless Tzain killed his own CC, walked 20 marines over 2 bling bombs, and left his tanks in the middle of the map to be plucked by mutas, while he had his marines on /dance in heart formation outside his base EDIT: Now that would be a sight to see yah, you have to hope that thorzain has his pants down. older Idra would probably have left without even all-inning, so in terms of progress, its some -.- its just people shit on him for playing macro all day, and shit he all ins for having bad mindset -.- Come on >< People don't care he allins, people care that they want to see him play the freaking game, and not just seeing a tank and still amoving his army to oblivion. 100% of the other zerg players would have continued to play that game. They would have microed, stationed their roaches behind the mineral line out of range of the tanks, delayed some mining while droning, well at least tried something. The tank opening has no marine and no medivac, he was behind but not so behind that a superior skill can't overcome the deficit. Even if he did do that, Tzain was ahead on tech, and waaaay ahead on economy. As I previously said, he would fall back on 33 drones and no Lair against triple orbital... A comeback like that would be close to impossible against a player like Tzain, I think
Comebacks never happen if you never try, yeah.
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On February 12 2012 12:26 Rulker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 12:25 TankinShit wrote:On February 12 2012 12:22 Rulker wrote:On February 12 2012 12:20 clementdudu wrote:On February 12 2012 12:16 Aocowns wrote:On February 12 2012 12:13 TankinShit wrote:
Long time lurker.
I can't believe the skill gap between Europeans and America. It's outstanding. EG just can't keep up with euro teams despite them having 0 koreans (almost). It's kind of interesting, one could almost derive that staying in euro makes you go pro as opposed to the whole Korea idea, because seriously, ThorZaiN mopped the floor with IdrA. And Incontrol got shat on as per normilia.
The Idra vs Tzain showed no skill what so ever, really. Idra went for an all in, and Tzain blind countered it >_< Disappointing games :/ so blind countering all in is early triple orbital? Triple orbital for high economy into fast tank for defense is a blind counter, yes. if he had gone medivacs he would have lost. Lolwut. Thorzain went triple expand and he held off an all-in that should have theoretically killed him outright. Idra's timings were pretty wrong (as sheth stated he didnt do it correctly), he then A-moved into glory. Thorzain had ONE tank on the cliff, it didnt even occur to idra not to go towards it or bring one overlord. Outplayed is the word we are looking for. outplayed = build order when, then
You can outplay someone and it can still be a build order win. One does not exclude the other. You have to actually watch and judge each game by the merits. If idra executed his build poorly and thorzain his with crisp precision, I have no problem with anyone saying he got outplayed (I'm not saying that was neccesarily the case)
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EPT
