When: Friday, Jan 27 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Friday, Jan 27 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Format
This double-elimination tournament features 16 teams from around the world and is an All-Kill team format. This match is being played for Winners Round 1. The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9), will move on in the Winners Bracket, while the loser will drop down into the Losers Bracket. Keep in mind that this has a $20,000 prize pool, and only six teams will make it to the money!
Mousesports ThorZaIN HeRoMaRinE MorroW biGs HasuObs MaNa
The First Game for this match of IPL Team Arena Challenge 2 is on Friday, Jan 27 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Friday, Jan 27 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
I simply give the favour to Quantic because it is an all-kill format, with players like SaSe and NaNiwa, it seems really likely that they can take more than one player off mouz. Personally, I love both teams and want to see ThorZaIN vs NaNiwa!
Mouz for the win. I remember talking to someone affiliated with quantic who mentioned that naniwa does not often play in team events. Without naniwa then quantic has very little chance.
On January 26 2012 03:54 ratzp0li wrote: With Apocalypse, SaSe, and Naniwa, Quantic should just about edge out Mouz. Depends on how seriously they take it.
Remember: Mouz beat QIM in a series last season, and they used mostly IM B Teamers with some A Team. No Quantic players (sans Apocalypse). It's hard to imagine Quantic winning after seeing that.
Ooh . . . . You have Thorzain, Morrow, Mana, and Hasuobs to snipe Quantic's ace protoss and then I don't think there is anyone on Quantic that could realistically take a game off of any of the other Mouz players.
Weird that the co-winner and the runner up from the previous tournament end up facing eachother first round, should be interesting. Mouz 5-3 Quantic, the mouz lineup is too solid for Quantic
Depends on who Quantic sends out, if it's their best player I think they will take it. Otherwise if they don't and maybe some of their more mediocre players I think Mousesports will take it.
On January 26 2012 05:12 eYeball wrote: Depends on who Quantic sends out, if it's their best player I think they will take it. Otherwise if they don't and maybe some of their more mediocre players I think Mousesports will take it.
Even if Sase and Naniwa are sent out, I still think it would be in Mouz's favor since Mouz not only has heavy hitters like Thorzain, but more importantly has depth in strong players. Quantic does not have that depth compared to Mouz.
mouz's strength is that they don't just have one or two really good players, as is the case with most foreign teams. they have four of the best players in the foreign scene.
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Mousesports: 1st EGMC V 1st EGMC VI 3rd GCPL S2 2nd IPL TAC1 Quantic had trouble beating Mouz with IM. Without IM, Mouz should win easily. They are the best foreigner team at clan wars by a HUUUUUUUGE margin. Bonjwas, if you will.
Mouz pretty simply. Naniwa has shown he's bad against Zerg, so both Bigs and Morrow should be able to snipe him. Thorzain can probably beat Sase and Apocalypse. Haven't even mentioned Mana yet. HasuObs has been slumping lately.
The rest of Quantic's lineup shouldn't be much of a match for Mouz.
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Mousesports: 1st EGMC V 1st EGMC VI 3rd GCPL S2 2nd IPL TAC1 Quantic had trouble beating Mouz with IM. Without IM, Mouz should win easily. They are the best foreigner team at clan wars by a HUUUUUUUGE margin. Bonjwas, if you will.
Oh my goodness, he just said the B-word...
I agree with him. Mouz should take this one. Quantic has strong aces but not enough depth, whereas the Mouz roster can easily fill 5 slots with players who have already shown strong results in the Team Arena.
OMG this is actually happening tonight!? God I love life these days. The world is finally starting to become the place I always dreamed it would be. Sure there's a lot of fucked up shit happening out there, but when I can come home and just sit down, plug my computer into my TV via HDMI and watch motherfuckin Quantic vs Mouz in the opening round of tournament it just makes me realize that slowly things do change. The world we lived in as kids is starting to fade out: Where nerds were the exact opposite of what we wanted to be even though life kept on pushing us in that direction. All that bullshit and drama growing up just matters less and less every day. Rather, my perception of the importance of that life is clarified day by day.
Now I've got a pretty great job, and I can just go home, crack open a beer and for a brief period of time be doing exactly what I want to be doing. It doesn't matter that when my friends talk hockey I don't have a fucking clue what they're going on about, they have their interests and I have mine and right now, this is pretty much as good as it gets.
Cheers guys.
Lol, kinda just had a pretty sweet moment there.
Anyway, I think this could go either way and kind of comes down to who can beat Naniwa and Sase. Though ALL of Mouz's players are really REALLY good I think at this moment only Mana or Hasuobs have a better than 50% chance of beating Naniwa. Thorzain's chances are about 45% though I think he can pretty much stomp Sase right now and I really don't know for Morrow, though PvZ does seem to be Naniwa's weakness.
Overall, because of the depth Mouze has I think they've got it. I think they can certainly win the first round because Quantic won't want to send one of their stars out without knowing what they're up against and on Mouze everyone is so well rounded.
Edit: This dude's gonna hate me for being a dick here but:
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
Oh lol... wow now I feel silly. Oh well, Vile vs FXO should be kind of cool too... though I have less faith in Vile tonight than I did in ReIGN last night. Maybe they'll prove me wrong though.
On January 26 2012 03:37 chipmonklord17 wrote: I still have a hard time seeing Vile in the same league as most if any teams in this league, and thats coming from someone who loves the team. Best of luck and I'd love to see an upset happen
Just a reminder, Vile qualified by beating the following teams: mTw, Team Clash, imbaFXO, and ZeNEX (Vile won this one 5-1!).
WAIT WHAT!? HOLD THE PHONE! Onto the other thread I go!
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
At the very least, it's arguable I think.
Yeah DRG if better but I didn't count him.
Puma all killed Prime while on TSL.
Without doubt Hero and Puma have outperformed Huk in the last few months, Huk has been playing poorly since Orlando.
I'd say Puma has probably the best overall results of the three, with Hero having the worst. I believe Puma knocked Huk out of Dreamhack Winter although of course that's just one series.
On January 26 2012 03:54 ratzp0li wrote: With Apocalypse, SaSe, and Naniwa, Quantic should just about edge out Mouz. Depends on how seriously they take it.
Maybe you forgot about HasuObs, MaNa, ThorZaIN, and MorroW. Plus Mouz takes all their Team Leagues very seriously where as I doubt a player like NaNiwa would view it as being nearly as important. Plus, SaSe and NaNiwa are both in Korea; if ThorZaIN, HasuObs, or MaNa play them, the lag from EU to NA is far more playable than the lag from KR to NA.
And, on top of all that: Mousesports is the greatest team ever.
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
At the very least, it's arguable I think.
Yeah DRG if better but I didn't count him.
Puma all killed Prime while on TSL.
Without doubt Hero and Puma have outperformed Huk in the last few months, Huk has been playing poorly since Orlando.
I'd say Puma has probably the best overall results of the three, with Hero having the worst. I believe Puma knocked Huk out of Dreamhack Winter although of course that's just one series.
You guys are all wrong. The best player on a foreigner team is SK.MC
I'm hoping Quantic gets it, but at the same time I think Mouz will win this...unless ThorZAIN gets taken out easily which could be a big hit, both playerwise (it's ThorZAIN!!) but also moral....but short of something big happening Mouz probably have this ='(
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
At the very least, it's arguable I think.
Yeah DRG if better but I didn't count him.
Puma all killed Prime while on TSL.
Without doubt Hero and Puma have outperformed Huk in the last few months, Huk has been playing poorly since Orlando.
I'd say Puma has probably the best overall results of the three, with Hero having the worst. I believe Puma knocked Huk out of Dreamhack Winter although of course that's just one series.
Naniwa has better results than Hero, Puma and Huk...
EDIT: And Seiplo knocked out Huk of Dreamhack WInter ROFL
On January 26 2012 03:54 ratzp0li wrote: With Apocalypse, SaSe, and Naniwa, Quantic should just about edge out Mouz. Depends on how seriously they take it.
Maybe you forgot about HasuObs, MaNa, ThorZaIN, and MorroW. Plus Mouz takes all their Team Leagues very seriously where as I doubt a player like NaNiwa would view it as being nearly as important. Plus, SaSe and NaNiwa are both in Korea; if ThorZaIN, HasuObs, or MaNa play them, the lag from EU to NA is far more playable than the lag from KR to NA.
And, on top of all that: Mousesports is the greatest team ever.
On January 26 2012 05:12 eYeball wrote: Depends on who Quantic sends out, if it's their best player I think they will take it. Otherwise if they don't and maybe some of their more mediocre players I think Mousesports will take it.
Even if Sase and Naniwa are sent out, I still think it would be in Mouz's favor since Mouz not only has heavy hitters like Thorzain, but more importantly has depth in strong players. Quantic does not have that depth compared to Mouz.
I still think SaSe and Naniwa can all-kill mousesports if they give it a good shot, look what happened to TeamLiquid against SaSe Although I think mousesports is a much better opponent than teamliquid however. But we'll see, if they can bring down Naniwa and SaSe without any problem they deffinetly got it. And if Quantic doesn't sends out Sase/Naniwa I'm sure they'll win it.
actually its been a while since i was hyped for a a team league match..good thing i work late tommorow and i can stay up late.And just for the discussion i get a feeling that mouz can take this.
On January 26 2012 05:12 eYeball wrote: Depends on who Quantic sends out, if it's their best player I think they will take it. Otherwise if they don't and maybe some of their more mediocre players I think Mousesports will take it.
Even if Sase and Naniwa are sent out, I still think it would be in Mouz's favor since Mouz not only has heavy hitters like Thorzain, but more importantly has depth in strong players. Quantic does not have that depth compared to Mouz.
I still think SaSe and Naniwa can all-kill mousesports if they give it a good shot, look what happened to TeamLiquid against SaSe Although I think mousesports is a much better opponent than teamliquid however. But we'll see, if they can bring down Naniwa and SaSe without any problem they deffinetly got it. And if Quantic doesn't sends out Sase/Naniwa I'm sure they'll win it.
Mutually assured destruction in my opinion. Sase and Naniwa could all kill Mouz if the conditions fall into place, but then again Thorzain could also all-kill Quantic if certain things go his way. I guess we will find out the results tonight.
Since all the scores have been 5-3, I'll be unoriginal here and predict 5-3 Mouz.
thorzain = great in all matchups. mana = AMAZING pvt and great pvp and pvz too. morrow = a great zvp/zvt player. hasuobs = not doing so well right now, but this guy is good. hope he does well today.
mouz has a sick line up, they have pretty much all matchups covered and 3 players that I consider top 10 europe. I dont really understand why ppl still vote against them in team leagues =o
Sase and Naniwa have been practicing like beasts in the the ST house....
I'd say they're a level above anyone in Mouz right now besides Morrow and maybe Thorzain. Korean training > foreign training, that's just how it works.
Quantic is the more talented team so im picking them :D Nani and Sase can beat anyone they're matched up. Destiny and Apocalypse are powerful players as well (I know people will say oh Destiny is shit but he honestly isnt he's got a fuck ton of talent an anyone shitting on his saying he's trash is an idiot) who can win against just about anyone they're matched up though are inconsistent at times (in Destiny's case).
Apocalypse should not be underestimated either I guess, so really that's 3 players to watch out for plus destiny. Could still go either way but mouze are certainly the favorites.
On January 27 2012 05:38 ratzp0li wrote: Sase and Naniwa have been practicing like beasts in the the ST house....
I'd say they're a level above anyone in Mouz right now besides Morrow and maybe Thorzain. Korean training > foreign training, that's just how it works.
Mana? He beat Slayers Ganzi in a BO9, no small feat.
On January 27 2012 05:38 ratzp0li wrote: Sase and Naniwa have been practicing like beasts in the the ST house....
I'd say they're a level above anyone in Mouz right now besides Morrow and maybe Thorzain. Korean training > foreign training, that's just how it works.
Mana? He beat Slayers Ganzi in a BO9, no small feat.
Ganzi's TvP is his worst match up.
A similar trait found in most of the SlayerS Terrans, as Ryung-MMA-GanZi are all under 50% win rate in TvP (Korea).
Now if it were Taeja he beat in a BO9, that would be a different story.
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
At the very least, it's arguable I think.
Yeah DRG if better but I didn't count him.
Puma all killed Prime while on TSL.
Without doubt Hero and Puma have outperformed Huk in the last few months, Huk has been playing poorly since Orlando.
I'd say Puma has probably the best overall results of the three, with Hero having the worst. I believe Puma knocked Huk out of Dreamhack Winter although of course that's just one series.
Naniwa has better results than Hero, Puma and Huk...
EDIT: And Seiplo knocked out Huk of Dreamhack WInter ROFL[/QUOTE]
Obviously and terrible troll.
Naniwa - 0 Major Lan wins, 1 Major LAN runner up. 7% win rate in Korea. Huk - 3 Major LAN wins, was a legitimate Code S player for a time. Puma - 3 Major LAN wins, 1 Major LAN runner up. Also terrible in Korea Hero - 1 Major LAN win, 1 Major LAN runner up, solid Code A player who's done okay in Korea.
So yeah, he's had way worse results than those three guys and even Naniwa's MLG run was a bit of a farce given he couldn't finish lower than 8th to begin with and won all of three games.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
There is literally no reason for it. Naniwa is overrated sure but at least he's placed well at major LAN's. Sase hasn't done much of anything and yet he has massive hype as a top Protoss. Socke and HasuObs have more results than Sase.
On January 26 2012 06:27 MCDayC wrote: Mouz vs a foreigner team? ezpz, they can roll with Koreans. Mouz gogogogog.
Quantic has the best aces out of any foreigner team though
Nice joke. Hero and Puma are the best players on a foreign team.
Mouz always do well in Team Leagues so I bet them.
DRG would like a word har har har.
Other than the ColMVP thing though yeah I guess you're right.
Actually I don't even know... I kind of think HuK is actually better than either of those two (Puma or Hero) usually to be honest. He's legitimately more consistent than either of them and that's just a fact. Puma's won two NASLs and Hero has won a Dreamhack. HuK has also won a dreamhack, Two MLGs (only one of which really counts but STILL) and the list goes on. In team leagues I don't recall Hero or Puma winning any games for oGs or TSL, though I could be mistaken on that count, whereas HuK was used as the ace for oGs two win two back to back games.
At the very least, it's arguable I think.
Yeah DRG if better but I didn't count him.
Puma all killed Prime while on TSL.
Without doubt Hero and Puma have outperformed Huk in the last few months, Huk has been playing poorly since Orlando.
I'd say Puma has probably the best overall results of the three, with Hero having the worst. I believe Puma knocked Huk out of Dreamhack Winter although of course that's just one series.
Naniwa has better results than Hero, Puma and Huk...
EDIT: And Seiplo knocked out Huk of Dreamhack WInter ROFL
Obviously and terrible troll.
Naniwa - 0 Major Lan wins, 1 Major LAN runner up. 7% win rate in Korea. Huk - 3 Major LAN wins, was a legitimate Code S player for a time. Puma - 3 Major LAN wins, 1 Major LAN runner up. Also terrible in Korea Hero - 1 Major LAN win, 1 Major LAN runner up, solid Code A player who's done okay in Korea.
So yeah, he's had way worse results than those three guys and even Naniwa's MLG run was a bit of a farce given he couldn't finish lower than 8th to begin with and won all of three games.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
There is literally no reason for it. Naniwa is overrated sure but at least he's placed well at major LAN's. Sase hasn't done much of anything and yet he has massive hype as a top Protoss. Socke and HasuObs have more results than Sase.[/QUOTE]
You lose a lot of credibility by editing out peoples names that you quote. Edit: Oops NM, somebody just screwed up somewhere. It was I that said HuK has better results than Hero and Puma, not Seraphone.
Anyway, I heartily disagree. HuK's been outperforming Hero, I don't even see how that's arguable. Hero won ONE tournament last year, HuK won three. In the short term, HuK took Hero out at Providence if all you care about is the most recent result. And Puma has yet to break Code A whereas HuK has beaten Code S players time and time again.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
He has'nt done a lot of appearences. He gets noticed a lot through his stream and did attend one MLG (2nd to last 2011 i believe) where he made it out of open bracket and into the pool play where he did very well with a score of 4-1, beating Bomber, Sheth , Kiwikaki and one more i don't remember. He also practices A LOT with Nani which obvously should help him improve quickly.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
There is literally no reason for it. Naniwa is overrated sure but at least he's placed well at major LAN's. Sase hasn't done much of anything and yet he has massive hype as a top Protoss. Socke and HasuObs have more results than Sase.
Do you seriously think HasuObs and Socke are better than SaSe?
On January 27 2012 07:10 TheDougler wrote: You lose a lot of credibility by editing out peoples names that you quote. Edit: Oops NM, somebody just screwed up somewhere. It was I that said HuK has better results than Hero and Puma, not Seraphone.
Anyway, I heartily disagree. HuK's been outperforming Hero, I don't even see how that's arguable. Hero won ONE tournament last year, HuK won three. In the short term, HuK took Hero out at Providence if all you care about is the most recent result. And Puma has yet to break Code A whereas HuK has beaten Code S players time and time again. Fuck you're just so blinded by your Korean Fanboism that you won't open your eyes to see that in this ONE UNIQUE EXAMPLE a foreigner is better than a korean.
Across the course of Sc2 Huk has had better results than Hero and about even with Puma. Right now both Hero and Puma are better players than Huk.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
There is literally no reason for it. Naniwa is overrated sure but at least he's placed well at major LAN's. Sase hasn't done much of anything and yet he has massive hype as a top Protoss. Socke and HasuObs have more results than Sase.
Do you seriously think HasuObs and Socke are better than SaSe?
That isn't what I said. Tell me what makes Sase good though. He couldn't even beat Fruit Dealer in GSL, hasn't won a single round in Code A. He's never placed well at a major LAN having attended a hell of a lot of them.
There is no way Mouz loses this. Mouz has easilly the best lineup of any foreign team for team league except EG (although EG always underperform even if they're great on paper.)
Mouz has 4 players who are solid in all matchups and have the best vs Protoss outside of Korea in Thorzain and the best vs Terran in Mana.
No chance do they lose to Sase and Naniwa playing from Korea.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
There is literally no reason for it. Naniwa is overrated sure but at least he's placed well at major LAN's. Sase hasn't done much of anything and yet he has massive hype as a top Protoss. Socke and HasuObs have more results than Sase.
Do you seriously think HasuObs and Socke are better than SaSe?
Right now? No. If all are able to bring their A-game? Then they are all Top EU Protoss and pretty much even. The only European Toss, who really could put a gap between him and the rest of the scene is Nani. This is also heavily supported by tournament results.
Speaking of actual results and accomplishments, Hasu and Socke (especially the latter) beat Sase in this regard.
Really looking forward to this. It's three vs three really; ThorZaIN/MaNa/MorroW vs SaSe/Apocalypse/NaNiwa. I'm betting the first three will come out on top, but in an all-kill format, anything can happen, so who knows?
On January 27 2012 08:45 tree.hugger wrote: Really looking forward to this. It's three vs three really; ThorZaIN/MaNa/MorroW vs SaSe/Apocalypse/NaNiwa. I'm betting the first three will come out on top, but in an all-kill format, anything can happen, so who knows?
Flo all-kill?
Joking aside, I just get the impression that Mouz has the better depth, which will ultimately carry them to victory.
On January 27 2012 07:24 Seraphone wrote: His record vs Koreans is really, really bad.
He was top 20-30 korea GM for a while and frequently beat top korean players. Plus he beat bomber at mlg.
No one cares about ladder and beating Bomber 2-1 once does not erase losing to JYP, Fruitdealer, Sniper, Puma, MarineKing (x2), Tails, Boxer and Puma (x2)
“practised with @QuanticNaNi for 14 hours, still going! young and wild and free ^_^vvvvvvv”
“played for 12 hours or so but can't stop, this game is sooooooooooo fun!”
“played for 14 hours,was about to sleep,oz came here, had to drink, so happy I did ^^ good night everyone! looooooove this home!!!happy happy”
“played for 9 hours straight or so, I want massage!”
Verdict: Quantic can win, but that depends on how far its 2 Dragons can carry it. That's about as deep as far as its aces go. Everyone else will probably get crushed.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
yo, check out his twitter
“practised with @QuanticNaNi for 14 hours, still going! young and wild and free ^_^vvvvvvv”
“played for 12 hours or so but can't stop, this game is sooooooooooo fun!”
“played for 14 hours,was about to sleep,oz came here, had to drink, so happy I did ^^ good night everyone! looooooove this home!!!happy happy”
“played for 9 hours straight or so, I want massage!”
And your argument on why Sase gets so much hype? Yes he practices a lot and that is great, but practicing long hours can be said for many people, especially Koreans. You just gave some tweets about him practicing.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
yo, check out his twitter
“practised with @QuanticNaNi for 14 hours, still going! young and wild and free ^_^vvvvvvv”
“played for 12 hours or so but can't stop, this game is sooooooooooo fun!”
“played for 14 hours,was about to sleep,oz came here, had to drink, so happy I did ^^ good night everyone! looooooove this home!!!happy happy”
“played for 9 hours straight or so, I want massage!”
And your argument on why Sase gets so much hype? Yes he practices a lot and that is great, but practicing long hours can be said for many people, especially Koreans. You just gave some tweets about him practicing.
Carn was one of the first players in Korea and practiced all the time, look what happened to him.
On January 27 2012 06:13 Dexington wrote: Why does Sase get so much hype? Haven't seen anything from him outside of that IPL4 qualifier.
yo, check out his twitter
“practised with @QuanticNaNi for 14 hours, still going! young and wild and free ^_^vvvvvvv”
“played for 12 hours or so but can't stop, this game is sooooooooooo fun!”
“played for 14 hours,was about to sleep,oz came here, had to drink, so happy I did ^^ good night everyone! looooooove this home!!!happy happy”
“played for 9 hours straight or so, I want massage!”
And your argument on why Sase gets so much hype? Yes he practices a lot and that is great, but practicing long hours can be said for many people, especially Koreans. You just gave some tweets about him practicing.
^^He practices a TON and has fun/is motivated while doing it. He's competed at the top level of WC3, up there with guys like Remind and Soju. If you've watched his stream, you'll notice that his mechanics and micro are INSANE, tempered of course by some over aggressive play and less-than-perfect decision making.
He's beaten Naniwa before. He's beaten Thorzain. He's even all-killed Team liquid. And if SaSe plays at his best, he can triumph also against Mouz.
On January 27 2012 08:45 tree.hugger wrote: Really looking forward to this. It's three vs three really; ThorZaIN/MaNa/MorroW vs SaSe/Apocalypse/NaNiwa. I'm betting the first three will come out on top, but in an all-kill format, anything can happen, so who knows?
Hasuobs can also beat either Nani or Sase in a PvP IMO, unlikely but could happen.
On January 27 2012 10:36 CosmicSpiral wrote: Why am I watching a PvZ from March 2011? :/
Because HasuObs has been playing a similar turtle-till-deathball style since then. Can't speak for Destiny though.
After that attack though, there is no way Destiny can lose this. I worried for a second that he wasn't going to attack there, but then he did, just from a different angle, which was good.
On January 27 2012 10:43 cellblock wrote: Never seen such bad macro in my life from a progamer like Hasuobs in this game. 1k minerals floating for whole game?!
I don't think that zealots are a good investment against roach+infestor. The game was over, he couldn't get a 3rd to get rid of a lot of minerals (nexus, probes, canons, extra gateways).
But Hasu didn't play well overall, he is really not doing well in 2012.
On January 27 2012 10:43 cellblock wrote: Never seen such bad macro in my life from a progamer like Hasuobs in this game. 1k minerals floating for whole game?!
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
MaNa is doing some work on those Mutalisks, but Destiny is on 50 bases, so no biggie for him. Can't see MaNa winning this one if Destiny continues to play solid and follows up with some higher tech.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
so thats why Blizzard is contemplating throwing a whole new unit in to counter mutas how can you say its not viable?
sooo....i guess this is why even blizzard thinks muta's r op in PvZ! Micro don't matter with mass muta's, flies them ovr whole army and just goes straight for main
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
Guess what? It doesn't matter if the protoss has storm and blink stalkers because he can never leave his bases without the possibility of getting counter-attacked. Meanwhile zerg just builds up the base count and stockpiles resources so he can transition into any composition he wants.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
so thats why Blizzard is contemplating throwing a whole new unit in to counter mutas how can you say its not viable?
this is purely to placate the average players, because VERY few low level protoss are capable of dealing with a zerg that gets enough mutas out, because it isnt easy, as witnessed by a very good (but not elite) protoss in MaNa losing to it just now. but any decent korean protoss knows exactly how not to die to mass muta. you need SOMETHING else to damage to the stalkers.
A bit sad that when Destiny wins a game, everyone just uses it as evidence of imba rather than congratulating Destiny on continued improvements and two good wins.
On January 27 2012 11:03 Dexington wrote: This map is a lot to blame for this I think.
Well MaNa choose it. Does Destiny usually play like this? I thought he liked infestor and his creep spread seems kind of lackluster.
There is no need to spread creep when you have map control with Mutas and you're only building Mutas (which don't benefit from creep). Spreading creep is not a measure of a good player.
On January 27 2012 11:05 Sackings wrote: I think it says a lot about mutas on this map when destiny is beating mana, he did play well though
haha pretty sure he lost more muta's than stalkers...BUT he can't move out or Destiny walks all over him with muta's...its a lose lose no matter what....that is why destiny expanded 5 times while harassing with muta's...
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
Guess what? It doesn't matter if the protoss has storm and blink stalkers because he can never leave his bases without the possibility of getting counter-attacked. Meanwhile zerg just builds up the base count and stockpiles resources so he can transition into any composition he wants.
I think one way to handle this might be to get phoenix with +1 early and constantly whittle down the muta numbers with them so that they can never get such a massive number.
That game just now, pretty much sums up all of my PvZ experience. Endlessly trying to chase mutas in your base, no amount of cannons or stalkers can stop them from doing damage all over the place. Storms? They just fly out of that. ouch.
on a unrelated note, I want doa's transformer's shirt.
On January 27 2012 11:07 Trsjnica wrote: A bit sad that when Destiny wins a game, everyone just uses it as evidence of imba rather than congratulating Destiny on continued improvements and two good wins.
Thank you. People don't realize what an intelligent and thoughtful guy Destiny is despite his antics.
On January 27 2012 11:03 Dexington wrote: This map is a lot to blame for this I think.
Well MaNa choose it. Does Destiny usually play like this? I thought he liked infestor and his creep spread seems kind of lackluster.
There is no need to spread creep when you have map control with Mutas and you're only building Mutas (which don't benefit from creep). Spreading creep is not a measure of a good player.
Well played, Destiny.
That maybe be true but what if his mutalisks would fail then the creep spread would play a huge roll since he either had to transition or die trying mutalisks. Only good player I can think of that doesn't like creep spread is July.
Not sure why people are saying Destiny played well. Mass mutas, miss MaNa expanding past 3 bases and drag out a game that should of been over, I mean really how do you lose that many bases with 60 mutas on the field?
Still hoping for better games, thorzain coming out should be interesting.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake.
It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
So... Quantic is 2-1 up... They have SaSe, Naniwa to come, and Mouz have Thorzain and then Morrow?. I don't see Mouz taking this now that Destiny took out their two Protoss, but it will all come down to whether they can take out Thorzain without taking too much damage from him. I assume SaSe or Nani comes next and snipes him.
On January 27 2012 11:07 Trsjnica wrote: A bit sad that when Destiny wins a game, everyone just uses it as evidence of imba rather than congratulating Destiny on continued improvements and two good wins.
Its not about Destiny. People will complain about mass mutas on TalDarim no matter who plays. Overpowered or not, Destiny played this really well.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake.
It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
On most maps it is completely beatable, but when the 3rd and main are close like that by air on taldarim... not gonna says its unbalanced but u have to outplay the zerg by a large margin imo
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
so thats why Blizzard is contemplating throwing a whole new unit in to counter mutas how can you say its not viable?
this is purely to placate the average players, because VERY few low level protoss are capable of dealing with a zerg that gets enough mutas out, because it isnt easy, as witnessed by a very good (but not elite) protoss in MaNa losing to it just now. but any decent korean protoss knows exactly how not to die to mass muta. you need SOMETHING else to damage to the stalkers.
stop spouting nonsense... No they don't. You can't move out against mutas without being literally all-in. MaNa is as good a protoss as any, his pvz isnt' his best MU, but it doesn't change the fact that if you have a timing that fails, and the zerg has a spire he basically cashes in on a free-win, because once you start going mutas the game enters a stage where there's very little that protoss can do outside of waiting for zerg to make a mistake, or base trading.
On January 27 2012 11:10 Baffels wrote: Not sure why people are saying Destiny played well. Mass mutas, miss MaNa expanding past 3 bases and drag out a game that should of been over, I mean really how do you lose that many bases with 60 mutas on the field?
Still hoping for better games, thorzain coming out should be interesting.
I thought Destiny's harass and muta control was very good. He had multiple groups of mutas pulling mana all over the place, forcing him to constantly defend. It was textbook. The point of what he was doing was to drag it out. It's called starving out your opponent and he did it properly. You might not like the strategy, it might not be exciting to you, but Destiny def played well.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake.
It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
On January 27 2012 11:12 mijagi182 wrote: destiny played well but MaNa was having lags issues (US server) also which is not porobably good when microing blink stalkers/storms gg anyway
On January 27 2012 11:11 bennyaus wrote: So... Quantic is 2-1 up... They have SaSe, Naniwa to come, and Mouz have Thorzain and then Morrow?. I don't see Mouz taking this now that Destiny took out their two Protoss, but it will all come down to whether they can take out Thorzain without taking too much damage from him. I assume SaSe or Nani comes next and snipes him.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake.
It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
It was more of MaNa playing bad/making bad decisions I would say. Not sure if he misread Destiny or something, but cross positions on Tal'Darim is perfect for a Muta-build Zerg. Besides that, I would have thought a strong 2-base gateway timing would have been the best move, or even a Stargate opening to punish the fast 3rd.
Building mutalisks and poking around isn't that amazing--- considering watching Destiny's control of those two flocks of mutas could have been better to inflict more damage, even though at that point it didn't matter (but overall he did well, not throwing away Mutalisks for bad trades). As soon as Destiny had Mutalisks out he had solid control of the map considering MaNa went for Colossus without Blink, that was basically game over. At that point, MaNa's only chance to win was a base trade, building as many Stalkers as possible with the 2-3 Colossus and hoping for a solid base trade win. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine him being able to have a chance, seeing as how Destiny had easy control and was obviously going to mass Expand, while MaNa could not.
And then he sacrificed a lot of units before finally managing to kill that 3rd, which IMO, was not worth it =/. 3-4 Zealots & 3 Stalkers or so when Destiny had used the Hatch to already build a large amount of Drones.
Hero vs Dimaga from IEM on TDA is a great game to study from the protoss perspective against an opponent who goes balls to the wall mass mutalisk the entire game. I'd recommend any people here struggling for answers watch that game, it isn't unbeatable, it just requires good decision making and crisp reactions.
On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs.
its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it.
it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything.
And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it.
Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake.
It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
How do Templars really stop mutas? they are slow and if they get into the mineral what is the toss going to do? Storm and kill all his own probes to damage mutas? Archons are immobile and with short range make them a joke to chase mutas around with....
On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote: Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner.
Funny that you say that when he's going up vs destiny
So? Having a large fanbase =/= overrated.
Nobody proclaims Destiny is a top tier player, and I see it all the time for Thorzain.
Destiny gets really overhyped any time he wins ANY game vs pretty much any player. He is very overrated although perhaps exclusively by his fans. The reason Thorzain is said to be so good is cause he's very consistant and there are like 2 good terrans in the foreigner scene all together.
On January 27 2012 11:10 Baffels wrote: Not sure why people are saying Destiny played well. Mass mutas, miss MaNa expanding past 3 bases and drag out a game that should of been over, I mean really how do you lose that many bases with 60 mutas on the field?
Still hoping for better games, thorzain coming out should be interesting.
I thought Destiny's harass and muta control was very good. He had multiple groups of mutas pulling mana all over the place, forcing him to constantly defend. It was textbook. The point of what he was doing was to drag it out. It's called starving out your opponent and he did it properly. You might not like the strategy, it might not be exciting to you, but Destiny def played well.
Destiny never attacked with both groups at once, Mana had like 5 different groups of stalkers ready at all the places and blinked instantly, stormed, trapped him several times, etc.. Destiny one time flew over 30 stalkers, losing 2 mutas in his pack. Then the commentator said how fragile mutas are.
Thorzain is REALLY good at being patient and methodical about moving his units forward...It's like he forces Destiny to attack him because he's so frustrated.
On January 27 2012 11:26 Whatson wrote: Thorzain is REALLY good at being patient and methodical about moving his units forward...It's like he forces Destiny to attack him because he's so frustrated.
Dont know if this has been mentioned before but dear IGN:
-Could you plz stop CONSTANLY reminding us of your various twitters and give-aways and all that non-related stuff?
You know we are not stupid. I dont need to fucking hear you twitter accounts every 5 mins.
I just think there are way too much downtime between games. When a game ends there is like 30 secs og game analyzes, 2 mins of twitter-crap and give aways and then a 3-5 min comercial break. If the game played was really short it pisses me off to hear CataPajamas spamming all the stuff he just did 5 mins earlier.
Sry that this post is not very friendly but I feel like you could give the viewers a much better experience by focusing on Starcraft 2 instead and then when you end the show you can tell twitters and such.
People that are really exited can easily learn about IGN and their casters without constantly getting reminded where to find them.
On January 27 2012 11:28 DaCruise wrote: Dont know if this has been mentioned before but dear IGN:
-Could you plz stop CONSTANLY reminding us of your various twitters and give-aways and all that non-related stuff?
You know we are not stupid. I dont need to fucking hear you twitter accounts every 5 mins.
I just think there are way too much downtime between games. When a game ends there is like 30 secs og game analyzes, 2 mins of twitter-crap and give aways and then a 3-5 min comercial break. If the game played was really short it pisses me off to hear CataPajamas spamming all the stuff he just did 5 mins earlier.
Sry that this post is not very friendly but I feel like you could give the viewers a much better experience by focusing on Starcraft 2 instead and then when you end the show you can tell twitters and such.
People that are really exited can easily learn about IGN and their casters without constantly getting reminded where to find them.
Especially when some of the giveaways are IPL apparel like stickers and whatnot : [
On January 27 2012 11:24 corpuscle wrote: what is destiny doing -__-
that attack works a lot better when terran isnt equal/ahead in upgrades :p
and when they don't have high ground and are perfectly positioned with a vastly superior army both composition and tech wise and you don't burn 100% of your infestor energy on a weird infested terran move
On January 27 2012 11:28 DaCruise wrote: Dont know if this has been mentioned before but dear IGN:
-Could you plz stop CONSTANLY reminding us of your various twitters and give-aways and all that non-related stuff?
You know we are not stupid. I dont need to fucking hear you twitter accounts every 5 mins.
I just think there are way too much downtime between games. When a game ends there is like 30 secs og game analyzes, 2 mins of twitter-crap and give aways and then a 3-5 min comercial break. If the game played was really short it pisses me off to hear CataPajamas spamming all the stuff he just did 5 mins earlier.
Sry that this post is not very friendly but I feel like you could give the viewers a much better experience by focusing on Starcraft 2 instead and then when you end the show you can tell twitters and such.
People that are really exited can easily learn about IGN and their casters without constantly getting reminded where to find them.
They are giving you a free service. It costs you nothing. Just tab out and watch something else man.
On January 27 2012 11:28 DaCruise wrote: Dont know if this has been mentioned before but dear IGN:
-Could you plz stop CONSTANLY reminding us of your various twitters and give-aways and all that non-related stuff?
You know we are not stupid. I dont need to fucking hear you twitter accounts every 5 mins.
I just think there are way too much downtime between games. When a game ends there is like 30 secs og game analyzes, 2 mins of twitter-crap and give aways and then a 3-5 min comercial break. If the game played was really short it pisses me off to hear CataPajamas spamming all the stuff he just did 5 mins earlier.
Sry that this post is not very friendly but I feel like you could give the viewers a much better experience by focusing on Starcraft 2 instead and then when you end the show you can tell twitters and such.
People that are really exited can easily learn about IGN and their casters without constantly getting reminded where to find them.
really? I don't think that the Downtime is much at all... It's like commercial -> follow twitter -> game...
On January 27 2012 11:29 Nosferatos wrote: Snipe = instawin What can a zerg do in this situation?
Snipe was so irrelevant at the end. It was 130 to 196 supply. Terran can only transition into Ghost after they get a lead, in my opinion, and Thorzain had a huge lead before Ghosts.
On January 27 2012 11:29 Nosferatos wrote: Snipe = instawin What can a zerg do in this situation?
Not be so far behind to begin with.
But what is with this Quantic pick? Two losses already, and you throw a non-SaSe, non-NaNiwa, non-Apocalypse player? And it's a protoss vs ThorZaIN? Come again?
On January 27 2012 11:29 Nosferatos wrote: Snipe = instawin What can a zerg do in this situation?
Not be so far behind to begin with.
But what is with this Quantic pick? Two losses already, and you throw a non-SaSe, non-NaNiwa, non-Apocalypse player? And it's a protoss vs ThorZaIN? Come again?
its very possible that one or more of those players were not available when the games were played.
On January 27 2012 11:33 Sackings wrote: calling it now naniwa isnt gonna play, sad but when has he ever played in team games?
It's very possible that Naniwa will not be fielded. I remember talking to someone affiliated with Quantic who mentioned that Naniwa rarely plays in Team tournaments.
On January 27 2012 11:28 DaCruise wrote: Dont know if this has been mentioned before but dear IGN:
-Could you plz stop CONSTANLY reminding us of your various twitters and give-aways and all that non-related stuff?
You know we are not stupid. I dont need to fucking hear you twitter accounts every 5 mins.
I just think there are way too much downtime between games. When a game ends there is like 30 secs og game analyzes, 2 mins of twitter-crap and give aways and then a 3-5 min comercial break. If the game played was really short it pisses me off to hear CataPajamas spamming all the stuff he just did 5 mins earlier.
Sry that this post is not very friendly but I feel like you could give the viewers a much better experience by focusing on Starcraft 2 instead and then when you end the show you can tell twitters and such.
People that are really exited can easily learn about IGN and their casters without constantly getting reminded where to find them.
really? I don't think that the Downtime is much at all... It's like commercial -> follow twitter -> game...
I think you gotta chill
Maybe it has improved lately. I havnt been watching that much IGN stuff recently as there used to be commercials/downtime almost every time I tuned in a couple of months back.
On January 27 2012 11:24 corpuscle wrote: what is destiny doing -__-
that attack works a lot better when terran isnt equal/ahead in upgrades :p
and when they don't have high ground and are perfectly positioned with a vastly superior army both composition and tech wise and you don't burn 100% of your infestor energy on a weird infested terran move
he has done it a few times on his stream in a similar fashion and it works fairly well, i agree the position wasnt good for it though
On January 27 2012 11:29 Nosferatos wrote: Snipe = instawin What can a zerg do in this situation?
Not being on two bases helps.
on paper, transfuse is more energy effective then snipe, while queens are even cheaper then ghosts and the same supply :p. So Basically every queen conters one ghosts energy completly. Looks a bit different ingame though. x3
On January 27 2012 11:41 nhoJJohn wrote: Good play by Agh, but what is he doing? I understand it's difficult to finish games, but man, he had it right there. I still think he'll win, though.
One of the most frustrating things about foreigners compared to Koreans is that they generally do not know how to finish games. I think Agh should have this, but there have been too many times when a foreigner has built up a lead, only to blow it away through inability to kill their opponent.
These announcers are killing me here. The last thing protoss wants to do when they have that advantage is to try to get over aggressive and push up the ramp. Thorzain had medivacs and several marauders. The sentries were too far back to trap them with force fields. You have to back off in that situation as protoss.
CatsPajamas said "Agh played really well" and i disagree. This wasn't well played, it was just an all-in, quite commonly done by protoss who are not too confident in PvT. Thorzain is not done though, hope he can do it!
EDIT: Wow, dark templar needing 2 hits to kill a worker. You don't see that too often
It was more bad unit comp from agh than it was good upgrades for thorzain. Plent of zealots to tank but no damage coming in from behind. he had like 5 stalkers and no storms or colossi.
Lol Agh. Not killing Thorzain when he had the chance was a terrible decision. Thorzain is a boss in the mid-late game when he is allowed to macro, you can't let him do that if you had the chance to kill him earlier!
What the announcer is missing is that while Agh was allowing the supplies to even out, he was expanding again and teching and adding a zillion gates. >_<
This is like the SangHo vs Calm game that was so disastrous that it led to SangHo being accused of match-fixing and ended his BW progaming career. Obviously that means nothing about Agh, but it just means that this game is a really really unfortunate.
On January 27 2012 11:50 Bagration wrote: What a thrown game. Horrible engagements and army control.
This just shows how stupid all-ins can be imo, the comeback from ThorZaiN shows he's the better player or Agh gets really really nervous when he's in the lead or something.
well zealots aren't that good against heavy marine bio compositions, agh learned that now, letting thorzain back into the game, on the other hand thorzain perfect read and dodge on the storms, so impressive.
ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
On January 27 2012 11:53 Loophole wrote: ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
his engagements have almost all been terrible unfortunately
On January 27 2012 11:53 Loophole wrote: ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
On January 27 2012 11:53 Loophole wrote: ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
I don't think Agh has any advantage to expand on, to be honest. SMH Agh.
On January 27 2012 11:53 Loophole wrote: ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
On January 27 2012 11:53 Loophole wrote: ROFL. People in this thread are hilarious. Agh has been playing great, patient, expanding on his advantage all game. Announcers calling the game for Thorzain... lol. SCV Genocide!
Playing great? You watching the same game as everyone else? Did you not see's 10 crappy storms in a row followed by countless terrible engagments followed by not upgrading and slow teching? AGH has played like crap after that first push and has gotten lucky with that massive worker kills...
On January 27 2012 11:51 tree.hugger wrote: My god, Agh bungled this game.
This is like the SangHo vs Calm game that was so disastrous that it led to SangHo being accused of match-fixing and ended his BW progaming career. Obviously that means nothing about Agh, but it just means that this game is a really really unfortunate.
From what I understand, it's a game of gentleman's. Agh starts out strong but then is like no, I don't really want to win Thorzain you take it! Thorzain initially fancy to the offer, decides to go with it but after thinking about it for a moment decides that wouldn't be fair so he gives it back to Agh. Now Agh is visibly upset (and who wouldn't be?) decides to make an offer Thorzain can't refuse. The all-out Planetary attack!
Worst engagements by Agh ever. Constantly losing tons of units left and right due to indecisiveness and the worst storms ever seen in a game. Holy crap.
This has been either a very very bad game, or a game that is so good that I can't understand it. Horrible engagements, horrible positioning, horrible tech choices.
On January 27 2012 11:59 Pulimuli wrote: never heard of Agh before but pushing thorzain to a 40min game is pretty damn good
LOL he won the game with his 6 gate but choose to go home after the CC at ThorZaiNs natural lifted, then slowly but surely The Spoon Terran made his return and look now
If you won't look on engagements, Agh played REALLY well. But those battles were just awful every time. Maybe it's not Agh bad but Thorzain's great positioning?
On January 27 2012 12:01 Dembski wrote: If you won't look on engagements, Agh played REALLY well. But those battles were just awful every time. Maybe it's not Agh bad but Thorzain's good?
No, Agh had Throzain by the balls, but got scared and gave it away bit by bit.
How can you not look at engagements? Agh did everything bad, the only thing he did well was that he caught Thorzain off guard with a 6 gate. Thats it. All game long after that he got outplayed so hard.
On January 27 2012 12:01 Dembski wrote: If you won't look on engagements, Agh played REALLY well. But those battles were just awful every time. Maybe it's not Agh bad but Thorzain's great positioning?
No one forced to him to fight in those battles. He's bad.
On January 27 2012 12:01 Dembski wrote: If you won't look on engagements, Agh played REALLY well. But those battles were just awful every time. Maybe it's not Agh bad but Thorzain's great positioning?
Poor decision making and indecisiveness. There were times when Agh looked unsure on whether or not to engage, charging his units in halfway then pulling out. He also chose to engage in terrible places.
On January 27 2012 12:01 Dembski wrote: If you won't look on engagements, Agh played REALLY well. But those battles were just awful every time. Maybe it's not Agh bad but Thorzain's great positioning?
Thorzain certainly is a great player who makes people look bad still Agh looked so bad it can't be "REALLY well"
Ha, Nani finally playing for his team, I'm glad to see that. Each time seeing Nani not playing for his team makes me imagine a lot of bad things, so I'm glad to see him today :p
On January 27 2012 12:04 MrCon wrote: Ha, Nani finally playing for his team, I'm glad to see that. Each time seeing Nani not playing for his team makes me imagine a lot of bad things, so I'm glad to see him today :p
On January 27 2012 12:04 MrCon wrote: Ha, Nani finally playing for his team, I'm glad to see that. Each time seeing Nani not playing for his team makes me imagine a lot of bad things, so I'm glad to see him today :p
He probably heard Thorzain was gonna play so he decided to play.
On January 27 2012 12:04 MrCon wrote: Ha, Nani finally playing for his team, I'm glad to see that. Each time seeing Nani not playing for his team makes me imagine a lot of bad things, so I'm glad to see him today :p
He probably heard Thorzain was gonna play so he decided to play.
On January 27 2012 12:04 MrCon wrote: Ha, Nani finally playing for his team, I'm glad to see that. Each time seeing Nani not playing for his team makes me imagine a lot of bad things, so I'm glad to see him today :p
He probably heard Thorzain was gonna play so he decided to play.
Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
Poor Nani, I feel bad for him there since I really wanted to see big macro game between the 2 Swedish Titans. But I am a bit happy Thorzain wins at least despite the cheese
well i knew he lost to proxy2rax but didn't see the game. not sure why he went nexus first after scouting, seems like if he just went delayed gate he'd have been fine ><
On January 27 2012 12:04 Nosferatos wrote: 10 bucks says Thorzain bunker rushes.
I demand you name change to Nostradamus.
It's a good prediction... but you guys realize that Catz and Doa have been joking about how Thorzain has always Bunker rushed Protoss who FE (especially in IPL)?
So it's not exactly something he's never done before.
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
On January 27 2012 12:12 aintz wrote: damn son destiny beat 2 top foreign protoss son.
Destiny's win over Hasuobs was legit and he really impressed me there. But his playstyle and seemingly Mana's play in that game was more of Mana reacting too slowly, and getting destroyed by a pretty strong build order win from Destiny. I am glad HotS will alleviate that mass muta BS against Toss.
On January 27 2012 12:12 starfish wrote: what a silly build order loss, so sad to see these losses instead of seeing who the better player is.
Thorzain is the better player in that game. That wasn't a build order loss. Nani scouted the cheese and chose the wrong build, so he got snuffed out. When you scout no rax in the main, you have to respond or lose.
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
On such a protoss-favored map he probably should've expected it too.
On January 27 2012 12:12 starfish wrote: what a silly build order loss, so sad to see these losses instead of seeing who the better player is.
Thorzain is the better player in that game. That wasn't a build order loss. Nani scouted the cheese and chose the wrong build, so he got snuffed out. When you scout no rax in the main, you have to respond or lose.
he didnt scout the cheese, he scouted the main and saw nothing which means either proxy or cc first, he picked wrong
edit~ yes he couldve noticed the missing scvs... but eh i guess he didnt
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
Heck even I can tell when theres likely to be proxy raxes...
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
Why did Naniwa even scout if he was going to do a nex first anyway? What scouting information would prompt him to deviate from nexus first if not no gas and no barracks in sight?
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
Why did Naniwa even scout if he was going to do a nex first anyway? What scouting information would prompt him to deviate from nexus first if not no gas and no barracks in sight?
On January 27 2012 12:11 bennyaus wrote: Who drops a nexus after not scouting a barracks in the main? He would've been better off dropping a forge and a cannon almost if he wanted to try that.
probably thought it was cc first until it was too late
A pro like Naniwa really should be able to see there's SCVs missing and its a proxy.
Why did Naniwa even scout if he was going to do a nex first anyway? What scouting information would prompt him to deviate from nexus first if not no gas and no barracks in sight?
He would know the timing for cc first.
He would know that there were 2 scvs missing.
He would know those 2 scvs would be doing dirty dirty things.
He still went nexus first...and later scouted no expo AGAIN.
On January 27 2012 12:12 Rabbet wrote: im a protox and canz expand with no gatewayz becuse im toss
Yes, because Terran can't CC first and Zerg NEVER Hatch firsts.
Holy fuck I swear TL gets worse by the day.
Don't worry Flanq. If you were around in the early days of Brood War, the same thing went down. We had this period of everyone constantly complaining about the other races. It took a couple of years for people to just chill out and play the game. We're just going through the same thing again.
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
SaSe can beat Thorzain and Morrow if he plays at his best, pardon my ignorance though, who is Bigs? Seen the name but don't know him.
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
SaSe can beat Thorzain and Morrow if he plays at his best, pardon my ignorance though, who is Bigs? Seen the name but don't know him.
It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
SaSe can beat Thorzain and Morrow if he plays at his best, pardon my ignorance though, who is Bigs? Seen the name but don't know him.
Swiss zerg
He good? What's his history and does he have any impressive recent results?
On January 27 2012 12:24 Badfatpanda wrote: It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
On January 27 2012 12:24 Badfatpanda wrote: It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
the upgrades were the reason he held, and HTs came after the third was established. that was well played by protoss and thats all there is to it.
what thorzain should have done was backed off, waited for medivacs then drop harassed while getting his third. bad decision making by spoonman.
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
SaSe can beat Thorzain and Morrow if he plays at his best, pardon my ignorance though, who is Bigs? Seen the name but don't know him.
Swiss zerg
He good? What's his history and does he have any impressive recent results?
I haven't seen any big tournament results from him, I've only seen him in smaller European online tournaments. If I remember correctly he was pretty good with doing ling surrounds on Protoss.
On January 27 2012 12:12 Dexington wrote: I'd be shocked if Sase can beat Thorzain, Morrow and Bigs.
I think he can, but it'll be hard obviously =) I hope he'll beat Thorzain, for the suspense and to see some Morrow. By the way, these are replays, right ? Even with replays, it's amazing they manage to organize this.
SaSe can beat Thorzain and Morrow if he plays at his best, pardon my ignorance though, who is Bigs? Seen the name but don't know him.
Swiss zerg
He good? What's his history and does he have any impressive recent results?
He took out 2 Slayers players in the last TAC. Ryung and someone else.
On January 27 2012 12:24 Badfatpanda wrote: It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
the upgrades were the reason he held, and HTs came after the third was established. that was well played by protoss and thats all there is to it.
what thorzain should have done was backed off, waited for medivacs then drop harassed while getting his third. bad decision making by spoonman.
Thorzain had +1 to SaSe's 1/1,its why he attacked... and 2/2 wasn't completed until SaSe pushed to win.
Hate how ThorZaIN took out Destiny, =( he was having such a great run.
I feel that Destiny has improved so much recently, but people never really change their minds about a player unless they have a ridiculously high result.
On January 27 2012 12:24 Badfatpanda wrote: It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
the upgrades were the reason he held, and HTs came after the third was established. that was well played by protoss and thats all there is to it.
what thorzain should have done was backed off, waited for medivacs then drop harassed while getting his third. bad decision making by spoonman.
Thorzain had +1 to SaSe's 1/1,its why he attacked... and 2/2 wasn't completed until SaSe pushed to win.
Agree with medis tho, blind vikings delayed them
did thorzain have weps or armor? because those zealots seemed to live way longer than they should have.
On January 27 2012 12:24 Badfatpanda wrote: It amazes me that, while map dependent, he can get a quick third, tech to HT, get double upgrades chrono'd, and defend his third against a strong 2 base timing...gg
the upgrades were the reason he held, and HTs came after the third was established. that was well played by protoss and thats all there is to it.
what thorzain should have done was backed off, waited for medivacs then drop harassed while getting his third. bad decision making by spoonman.
Thorzain had +1 to SaSe's 1/1,its why he attacked... and 2/2 wasn't completed until SaSe pushed to win.
Agree with medis tho, blind vikings delayed them
did thorzain have weps or armor? because those zealots seemed to live way longer than they should have.
He had +1 attack, GS accounts for zealots not dying
I like the gas timing from biGs his build is very precise, more and more Z are forgoing +carapace though, kinda makes me sad
On January 27 2012 12:38 Jehct wrote: Sase's PvZ looking pretty sick right now. Totally demolishing Bigs here, not even close though the warp prism/zealot harass didn't do much.
It did a LOT for its cost, which is what matters. Bigs didn't have the best multitasking.
On January 27 2012 12:38 Jehct wrote: Sase's PvZ looking pretty sick right now. Totally demolishing Bigs here, not even close though the warp prism/zealot harass didn't do much.
It did a LOT for its cost, which is what matters. Bigs didn't have the best multitasking.
He denied enough mining time at the third to be okay-ish and killed 5 drones while Bigs was droning pretty freely. It definitely didn't put Sase ahead, though it didn't really put him behind either.
On January 27 2012 12:40 Proko wrote: Man TAC 2 is really good. More viewers each night too! This deserves a lot of attention. excited for the ace match!
Agreed. I wonder what would be a good number for them. They have been hitting 10k pretty consistently the last few broadcasts.
Of course if you're on the left side of the map you can expand upwards (either side has the same expo) but of course that's a longer creep distance (player there is protoss)
On January 27 2012 12:40 Proko wrote: Man TAC 2 is really good. More viewers each night too! This deserves a lot of attention. excited for the ace match!
This is the R016 also, I expect it to double once it gets to the semi finals.
On January 27 2012 12:40 Proko wrote: Man TAC 2 is really good. More viewers each night too! This deserves a lot of attention. excited for the ace match!
This is the R016 also, I expect it to double once it gets to the semi finals.
Hopefully, What was the viewership during the last TAC finals?
Man, what a close series. What a shame that 2 of the top 3 foreign teams in this tournament had to play in the first round. I would have loved to see one of them going up against Zenex or TSL.
On January 27 2012 12:49 red4ce wrote: Man, what a close series. What a shame that 2 of the top 3 foreign teams in this tournament had to play in the first round. I would have loved to see one of them going up against Zenex or TSL.
This is the kind of thing that baffles me when pro players do it. He saw those Zealots coming in from the upper left, why did he not take that pylon out?
I am surprised that was so close, I expected Mouz to wipe the floor there. Good on quantic, and destiny too! I'm glad he got a chance to win some public games :D
Mouz - still one of best foreign teams! Sase - takes the lead as Quantic's best protoss! Destiny - WTF won games that mattered against people that mattered. Whoa.
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Damn, impressive games all around. Sase once again cementing that he is Quantic's Ace and probably a top 3 foreigner protoss. And Mouz showing they are still probably the no.1 foreigner team
But Destiny...wtf, I was not expecting that. Maybe his training in Korea has paid off.
Also, on a sadder note, when was the last time Hasu won anything? He seems to be doing so badly lately
On January 27 2012 13:04 1Eris1 wrote: Damn, impressive games all around. Sase once again cementing that he is Quantic's Ace and probably a top 3 foreigner protoss. And Mouz showing they are still probably the no.1 foreigner team
But Destiny...wtf, I was not expecting that. Maybe his training in Korea has paid off.
Also, on a sadder note, when was the last time Hasu won anything? He seems to be doing so badly lately
He probably would've gotten farther in DreamHack if he hadn't run into HerO in the second round of the playoffs...
Taking 3rd bases on exposed maps still appears to be a problem for PvZ. After that early harassment I feel like a straight up 7gate all in would have been able to kill Morrow.
Well played by Morrow nevertheless, he deserved it.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
On January 27 2012 13:04 1Eris1 wrote: Damn, impressive games all around. Sase once again cementing that he is Quantic's Ace and probably a top 3 foreigner protoss. And Mouz showing they are still probably the no.1 foreigner team
But Destiny...wtf, I was not expecting that. Maybe his training in Korea has paid off.
Also, on a sadder note, when was the last time Hasu won anything? He seems to be doing so badly lately
He probably would've gotten farther in DreamHack if he hadn't run into HerO in the second round of the playoffs...
It's not just DH though. Every time I seem to click his results lately it'sX>Hauobs
Sucks too, not too far back he used to be one of the top foreigners
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Did you watch that game? Or even the last engagement? MorroW was in control at the beginning, looked like he could be in a bit of trouble, but managed to delay SaSe until he had Broodlords. Once MorroW had the Broods there was no way where SaSe could win. But MorroW's constant counter-attacks were greatly executed. I don't know about anybody else, but I was really impressed.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Did you watch that game? Or even the last engagement? MorroW was in control at the beginning, looked like he could be in a bit of trouble, but managed to delay SaSe until he had Broodlords. Once MorroW had the Broods there was no way where SaSe could win. But MorroW's constant counter-attacks were greatly executed. I don't know about anybody else, but I was really impressed.
I watched the replay. I didn't say Morrow played bad, just that his ZvP didn't look scary. So if Agh had won... we'd have had Naniwa and Sase to play against him, both very good at PvZ living in the same house. If one lost the other would have been watching and can go into the next game with a good idea of how to win.
On January 27 2012 13:19 Mutality wrote: wow that was closer than i expected, great play by destiny vs mana really loved his pure muta comp
That game was painful to watch. I play Terran so I don't really know much about the match-up, but oh my goodness. After watching that I think I realized where all the "Muta OP" cries out of Protoss players come from.
I much prefer to watch these team arenas every night and occasionally miss one over having to sacrifice a weekend for a marathon 1v1 tourney. Much more suspenseful, lots of color commentating and some surprises in there too.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Did you watch that game? Or even the last engagement? MorroW was in control at the beginning, looked like he could be in a bit of trouble, but managed to delay SaSe until he had Broodlords. Once MorroW had the Broods there was no way where SaSe could win. But MorroW's constant counter-attacks were greatly executed. I don't know about anybody else, but I was really impressed.
I watched the replay. I didn't say Morrow played bad, just that his ZvP didn't look scary. So if Agh had won... we'd have had Naniwa and Sase to play against him, both very good at PvZ living in the same house. If one lost the other would have been watching and can go into the next game with a good idea of how to win.
On January 27 2012 13:19 Mutality wrote: wow that was closer than i expected, great play by destiny vs mana really loved his pure muta comp
That game was painful to watch. I play Terran so I don't really know much about the match-up, but oh my goodness. After watching that I think I realized where all the "Muta OP" cries out of Protoss players come from.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this, don't be closed-minded.
we know what is a good toss unit composition, you don't have to say it
your assessment is made so generally and had nothing to do with the game that was seen
you can say at the start before watching even this game that mothership/colossus/HT/stalker/archons would be the key to victory
but if you were actually commenting about the game, it would be difficult for him to tech up to colossus and mothership; he had to go deny morrow's expansions, which he did to make it somewhat close. He lost his first big engagement pretty badly.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl.
No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl.
No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace.
You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it.
On January 27 2012 15:10 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Meh, Thorzain vs. Nani was really cheesy, but oh well. The overall series was awesome.
Play to win. Good to see Thorzain mixing up some early game aggression. While I certainly do not enjoy watching a player that does nothing but cheese and one base all-ins, I also do not enjoy players unwilling to employ any early game aggression.
Great that this series was so close and actually went to an ace match.
On January 27 2012 13:19 Mutality wrote: wow that was closer than i expected, great play by destiny vs mana really loved his pure muta comp
It was a good demonstration of muta power vs a protoss who doesnt know how to play against that style. turtle behind cannons and storms and its a lot less threatening.
I'm glad Destiny came out and beat to very good protoss, though I'm surprised they sent Mana out against Destiny. I guess they were hoping he would beat Destiny and bait out another zerg? Not entirely sure. GJ to Morrow for cleaning up as well. :D
It's not just DH though. Every time I seem to click his results lately it'sX>Hauobs
Sucks too, not too far back he used to be one of the top foreigners
It was not DH (he didn´t attend there), it was the NASL II Finals. Hasu actually did reasonable well until the end of the year. He qualified for IEM Kiev without losing a single map and narrowly missed a spot for Sao Paulo. He had a really bad start in 2012 (HSC IV and IEM Kiev), because he couldn´t practice much over the holidays. In addition to that, he seems to have a mindset problem versus Zerg. I listened to a cast of him, Delphi and Take yesterday and he made some pretty depressed statements of PvZ (e.g. Zerg techs to Infestor and just wins). He has problems to adjust his PvZ to the current meta game (and Destiny did play very well here).
In short, he is just in a slump like pretty much every Top Foreigner was at least once. He will bounce back sooner or later. This isn´t his first slump (hardly surprising, if you play professionally for over 7 years).
For this tournament, Mouz should probably use him as a Terran sniper. In this MU he is still one of the best outside Korea.
On January 27 2012 13:19 Mutality wrote: wow that was closer than i expected, great play by destiny vs mana really loved his pure muta comp
That game was painful to watch. I play Terran so I don't really know much about the match-up, but oh my goodness. After watching that I think I realized where all the "Muta OP" cries out of Protoss players come from.
I remember naniwa told destiny on his stream when they were in the ST house to go pure mutas and spines in a ladder game, and if it worked Destiny would dub it the naniwa build . He lost that game but it seems to be working now!
This is ridic...every thread on this site has protoss players crying...I don't get it. Talk about the games for once and don't speak of imbalance of mutas or ghosts. Destiny played well, and showed skill. Hopefully we see him in Korea full time.
On January 27 2012 13:19 Mutality wrote: wow that was closer than i expected, great play by destiny vs mana really loved his pure muta comp
It was a good demonstration of muta power vs a protoss who doesnt know how to play against that style. turtle behind cannons and storms and its a lot less threatening.
he sniped the templar archives 4 times lol.
its pretty hard to turtle with storm if you dont have the tech to do templars hahaha. also, 60 mutas with 2/1 is pretty hard to stop with cannons =p
On January 28 2012 02:29 Zorkmid wrote: So the TL trackers says this starts in one minute....looks like it already over?
Was shown last night in America timezone, so they're reshowing it today to catch a European night timezone. IPL and NASL do this pretty regularly to have an audience in both regions.
On January 28 2012 02:56 McFeser wrote: LOL, that random guy called the results perfectly. (Klondikebar?)
Link to post? You know this is the EU rebroadcast.
No he (not sure if it was Klondikebar though) really did call it perfectly, Morrow beating SaSe in the 9th set. But I seem to remember that it was said in stream or something... but I'm not sure about that.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
The reason SaSe's third got sniped was because SaSe was out being aggressive and putting pressure on. Had he not done that then MorroW could have expanded more freely. If MorroW gets to expand more freely than he loses (well maybe not because 3 base Protoss is stupidly strong, but MorroW also has sick macro).
Well, that game between Destiny and Mana has definately shown how broken mass muta is in PvZ. There is like a magic number of mutas... as soon as you reach that number as zerg you can´t lose if you dont mess up your muta control completely.
Fortunately, Blizzard has already seen this problem and is trying to change the Protoss Phoenix.... and in long-term there will be the Tempest in HotS
On January 28 2012 08:08 Elyvilon wrote: Well, Thorzain moved an SCV out to his nat, so I think he'd tricked Naniwa into thinking he was actually going CC first.
Naniwa saw both scvs going out of Thorzain's base very early to proxy 2 raxes, Thorzain's scv low count and scouted his expansion aswell. Thorzain sent an scv to his natural to make sure there was no pylon being built. It was just a terrible game from Naniwa, and I'm surprised Thorzain still did the proxy barracks even though it was scouted. That game was just so terrible.
On January 28 2012 08:08 Elyvilon wrote: Well, Thorzain moved an SCV out to his nat, so I think he'd tricked Naniwa into thinking he was actually going CC first.
Naniwa saw both scvs going out of Thorzain's base very early to proxy 2 raxes, Thorzain's scv low count and scouted his expansion aswell. Thorzain sent an scv to his natural to make sure there was no pylon being built. It was just a terrible game from Naniwa, and I'm surprised Thorzain still did the proxy barracks even though it was scouted. That game was just so terrible.
Ah, I only came in when Thorzain's SCV was in the nat so I didn't realize that.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl.
No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace.
You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it.
I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive.
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl.
No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace.
You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it.
I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive.
A disappointing game.
I don't think Sase was gonna win that without a mothership. Too many brood lords, simply not an approachable army. I don't think he even had a stargate yet
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed.
The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide.
However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this.
On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote: ;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round ><
Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game.
^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse
There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment.
Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible.
And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap.
Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl.
No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace.
You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it.
I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive.
A disappointing game.
I don't think Sase was gonna win that without a mothership. Too many brood lords, simply not an approachable army. I don't think he even had a stargate yet
On January 28 2012 08:03 aTnClouD wrote: So Naniwa scouted double scv going out for Thorzain and his base very early and he goes nexus first anyway? I don't know what to think.
EPT
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Apocalypse
Shuffle
Agh![[image loading]](http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3086/mouzicon.png)
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Twitter, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
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Although I think mousesports is a much better opponent than teamliquid however. But we'll see, if they can bring down Naniwa and SaSe without any problem they deffinetly got it. And if Quantic doesn't sends out Sase/Naniwa I'm sure they'll win it.
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