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Well, that game between Destiny and Mana has definately shown how broken mass muta is in PvZ. There is like a magic number of mutas... as soon as you reach that number as zerg you can´t lose if you dont mess up your muta control completely.
Fortunately, Blizzard has already seen this problem and is trying to change the Protoss Phoenix.... and in long-term there will be the Tempest in HotS
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I can't believe that Agh pissed that game against ThorZain away.
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So Naniwa scouted double scv going out for Thorzain and his base very early and he goes nexus first anyway? I don't know what to think.
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Naninexus: The act of fast-expanding in any situation where a proxy rush is imminent.
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United States6708 Posts
Well, Thorzain moved an SCV out to his nat, so I think he'd tricked Naniwa into thinking he was actually going CC first.
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On January 28 2012 08:08 Elyvilon wrote:
Well, Thorzain moved an SCV out to his nat, so I think he'd tricked Naniwa into thinking he was actually going CC first.
Naniwa saw both scvs going out of Thorzain's base very early to proxy 2 raxes, Thorzain's scv low count and scouted his expansion aswell. Thorzain sent an scv to his natural to make sure there was no pylon being built. It was just a terrible game from Naniwa, and I'm surprised Thorzain still did the proxy barracks even though it was scouted. That game was just so terrible.
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United States6708 Posts
On January 28 2012 08:10 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:08 Elyvilon wrote:
Well, Thorzain moved an SCV out to his nat, so I think he'd tricked Naniwa into thinking he was actually going CC first. Naniwa saw both scvs going out of Thorzain's base very early to proxy 2 raxes, Thorzain's scv low count and scouted his expansion aswell. Thorzain sent an scv to his natural to make sure there was no pylon being built. It was just a terrible game from Naniwa, and I'm surprised Thorzain still did the proxy barracks even though it was scouted. That game was just so terrible.
Ah, I only came in when Thorzain's SCV was in the nat so I didn't realize that.
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1147 Posts
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I don't care how behind you get from losing the 3rd, that attack had a 0% chance of working.
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On January 27 2012 15:14 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 14:18 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 14:01 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:47 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:13 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed. The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide. However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this. On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment. Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible. And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap. Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl. No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace. You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it.
I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive.
A disappointing game.
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On January 28 2012 09:00 ratzp0li wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 15:14 Whatson wrote:On January 27 2012 14:18 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 14:01 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:47 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:13 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed. The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide. However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this. On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment. Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible. And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap. Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl. No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace. You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it. I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive. A disappointing game.
I don't think Sase was gonna win that without a mothership. Too many brood lords, simply not an approachable army. I don't think he even had a stargate yet 
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On January 28 2012 09:09 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 09:00 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 15:14 Whatson wrote:On January 27 2012 14:18 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 14:01 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:47 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:13 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse Morrow willingly gave up two bases (one of them twice) to secure a broodlord/infestor army and even then, his zerglings were more than enough to kill the third by themselves and force Sase to all-in. And since Sase couldn't secure his fifth and sixth geysers, he couldn't get archons and mothership simultaneously. Morrow's army was flat-out better and it was never in danger of being killed. The reason why SaSe lost is because he didn't defend his third base properly and was therefore forced to all-in, which we all know versus a wall of spines and maxed broodlords/infestors is suicide. However, archon toilet stalker/ht colossus can clean up an equal supply BL/infestor army if the protoss gets in a good position/gets good vortexes. And long before that engagement happens, the protoss can easily abuse the immobility of the broodlords by blinking his stalkers around, perhaps taking out the tech/GS in the zerg's main. There was a lot of ways that SaSe could have won this. On January 27 2012 13:13 The Final Boss wrote:On January 27 2012 13:10 ratzp0li wrote:On January 27 2012 13:07 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 27 2012 13:04 Dark.Carnival wrote:
;_; if only agh won, we'd have naniwa and sase to vs. morrow, and morrows zvp didn't look too strong that last game so we probably would've won. also sucks we got bottom seed and had to play mouz first round >< Really? Morrow was in control of that entire game. ^^not really, there was a time when it was only 3 base vs 3 base, if SaSe has walled off and defended his 3rd probably he could have probably won it with super mobile blink stalker harrass + archon toilet abuse There was literally no chance of him getting out a Mothership, so no archon toilet abuse. What a stupid comment. Again, it boiled down to SaSe's third getting sniped twice(!). That was terrible. And that's entirely possible once you get a third...oh snap, Morrow never let him maintain a third. Truth of the matter is Morrow is a progamer and he knows exactly how to limit his opponent's options while strengthening his own. By spending his gas on an infestor/BL army and using cheap units to deny expansions he forced Sase to get aggressive with his army, leaving himself open to more counterpressure when his army was in the middle of the map. And since Sase was behind the entire game he couldn't afford the cutesy little harass you're suggesting. Blink stalkers are not cheap. Exactly bro. SaSe didn't wall off his third properly and Morrow abused this fact to his advantage. If he had walled off with proper defenses then there would have been only one location SaSe would have had to place his army to defend all three of his bases. Three base toss is generally sufficient to amass a powerful deathball army to counter infestor/bl. No weak-ass roach/ling runbys, broodlords get flushed, and SaSe shows why he is Quantic's true ace. You use 'if' a lot. Morrow outplayed SaSe. That's really all there was to it. I'm suggesting that had there been adequate defense for the 3rd, SaSe would have been heavily favored to win. Morrow's ZvP didn't seem particularly impressive. A disappointing game. I don't think Sase was gonna win that without a mothership. Too many brood lords, simply not an approachable army. I don't think he even had a stargate yet
Did you read my previous posts?
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On January 28 2012 08:03 aTnClouD wrote:
So Naniwa scouted double scv going out for Thorzain and his base very early and he goes nexus first anyway? I don't know what to think.
Cos hes a protox and can expand when he wants.
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EPT
