EPT[GSL] January Up&Downs Day 3 - Page 123
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ArtisaBang
195 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
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Fyzar
Netherlands8010 Posts
 !Always been a fan of him, and after his final vs NesTea he has improved sooo much, as we could see in the Korean Weekly & tht kind of stuff. Hope he goes far again in code S ;d. | ||
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SkatePunk
Romania3 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On December 22 2011 00:10 bennyaus wrote: Inca is nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be. It is Polt and Losira's fault they lost, not his fault that he won. He has shown a new level of play, both in the Korean Weekly, and in his previous Code A match, before this season, against DRG (I thought he played really well vs DRG back then). He is a capable player that may or may not get nerves on stage. No need to shit all over him. The system worked, he beat 2 ex-Code S players in Bo1 and finished 2nd in the Up and Down group, so he goes up to Code S. If you want to complain about a so-called bad player going to Code S, then talking to Losira and Polt and ask them how they lost to Inca, even though they know DT is his trademark, and there are standard timings for turrets/spores. If they are so much better than him, they can afford the slight loss of economy for 100% safety. Similarly, ask Losira how he lost to a 'worse' player in Zenio, despite gaining an advantage in the early game. Don't blame the player who won, blame the one you wanted to win, who lost, as it is his fault. See that's the entire problem with this system. | ||
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ma70
253 Posts
On December 22 2011 00:10 bennyaus wrote: Inca is nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be. It is Polt and Losira's fault they lost, not his fault that he won. He has shown a new level of play, both in the Korean Weekly, and in his previous Code A match, before this season, against DRG (I thought he played really well vs DRG back then). He is a capable player that may or may not get nerves on stage. No need to shit all over him. The system worked, he beat 2 ex-Code S players in Bo1 and finished 2nd in the Up and Down group, so he goes up to Code S. If you want to complain about a so-called bad player going to Code S, then talking to Losira and Polt and ask them how they lost to Inca, even though they know DT is his trademark, and there are standard timings for turrets/spores. If they are so much better than him, they can afford the slight loss of economy for 100% safety. Similarly, ask Losira how he lost to a 'worse' player in Zenio, despite gaining an advantage in the early game. Don't blame the player who won, blame the one you wanted to win, who lost, as it is his fault. Great post. I'm happy with the results. I was stuck in a 3 way tie with Polt/Inca/Zenio in wanting them to advance. I wanted Losira/Virus to go/stay in Code A | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On December 21 2011 21:28 tree.hugger wrote: If InCa had meant to give the game away, I can't imagine why he'd have scouted and pressured with those two early zealots. Better to just get 'surprised' by what Zenio does, or lose the game through passivity, no? Doesn't make sense to build five cannons and then misplace a building, that's not a good way to purposely lose the game. Also, don't forget Inca is the same guy who went DT FOUR games in a row and lost in one of the worst GSL finals ever. I really doubt Inca was throwing the game because he has shown that he is capable of some pretty jaw dropping mistakes/decision making in the past. | ||
Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
The 32 Original Code S Players: Nestea, Fruitdealer, HongUn, Rain, Rainbow, MC, MarineKing, Ensnare, Maka, Zenio, BoxeR, Kyrix, Genius, InCa, LiveForever, Jinro, Polt, Mvp, TheWinD, Choya, Leenock, NaDa, Clide, Check, TheBest, JookTo, Hyperdub, TricKsteR, anypro, San, LegalMind, IdrA Original Players in Code S 1 year later: Leenock, Mvp, Nestea, MC, Marineking, Nada, Zenio, InCa, and IdrA (invited back) original code S players still possibly code s next season: Clide, Genius, and Boxer With Zenio advancing, TL will have had a code S player EVERY season of the GSL Team Liquid has had a player in every GSL tournament (all 3 open seasons, super tournament, world championship, Blizzard Cup, and Code S every season). Of the 32 original code s players, 19, Fruitdealer, HongUn, Rain, Rainbow, Ensnare, Maka, Kyrix, Liveforever, Jinro, TheWind, Choya, Check, TheBest, JookTo, Hyperdub, Trickster, anypro, san, and legalmind are Code B, retired, or left the GSL Including this upcoming season, Nestea, Nada, and possibly Clide will have been the only players to have never fallen to Code A after the up and down matches. IdrA has never played in the up and down matches since he left after GSL Jan. With today's results, Inca became only the third player to return to code S after falling all the way to code B. The other two players were MC and Leenock. MC returned through the MLG invite system. Leenock and Inca returned through the up and down matches. If boxer advances he will be the 4th. GSL Season 1 2012 will feature at least 4 players who have never been code S before: Brown, Parting, Fin, and Lucky. Players in the up and down matches that have never been code S remaining are: Hero, JYP, Luvsic, Cezanne, and Squirtle There has been a Swedish player in every GSL since Open Season 3. Only open Seasons 1 and 2 did not have swedes. There has been a foreign player in every GSL without counting seeded players The race distribution in GSL January Code S: 9 Protoss 14 Terran 9 Zerg The race distribution with 2 up and down groups pending for January 2012: 6 Protoss 14 Terran 8 Zerg pool of players fighting for the last 4 code S spots: 4 Protoss 4 Terran 4 Zerg Since moving to a group system for the up and down matches, this is only the second time that no Terran advanced from the group The first time up and down matches were done in group style, all 6 up and down spots to code S were claimed by Terran | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 22 2011 00:55 CosmicSpiral wrote: See that's the entire problem with this system. That's not a problem, that's simply how the system works. It doesn't disadvantage good players any more than it disadvantages bad players. Everyone knows what the system is, everyone knows what they need to prepare for, and if you prepare poorly, you'll lose. Your argument isn't borne out by the reality of the games, Zenio beat LosirA and lost to Polt in longer games, he didn't cheese his way through, there's no evidence that LosirA would've suddenly been guaranteed to win the second two games if it were a Bo3. InCa prepared extremely well, do you think if it were a Bo3 he'd somehow be incapable of preparing builds on other maps? Just because the players you think should've advanced didn't don't mean the system is broken. Yesterday there was a group that went exactly as it should've, there wasn't really a single upset. Good players aren't the kind of players who can only win in long series, just as good players aren't the kind of players who can win in only short series. The fact is, good players should be able to win no matter what the circumstances of the tournament are. | ||
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devPLEASE
Kenya605 Posts
Nice LR too | ||
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Devise
Canada1131 Posts
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
Or at least without knowing the result of the other matches. This is to make sure there is no player that can be in a position where he can choose who will progress when he is already through (or already out, for that matter). | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:13 tree.hugger wrote: That's not a problem, that's simply how the system works. It doesn't disadvantage good players any more than it disadvantages bad players. Everyone knows what the system is, everyone knows what they need to prepare for, and if you prepare poorly, you'll lose. Your argument isn't borne out by the reality of the games, Zenio beat LosirA and lost to Polt in longer games, he didn't cheese his way through, there's no evidence that LosirA would've suddenly been guaranteed to win the second two games if it were a Bo3. InCa prepared extremely well, do you think if it were a Bo3 he'd somehow be incapable of preparing builds on other maps? Just because the players you think should've advanced didn't don't mean the system is broken. Yesterday there was a group that went exactly as it should've, there wasn't really a single upset. Good players aren't the kind of players who can only win in long series, just as good players aren't the kind of players who can win in only short series. The fact is, good players should be able to win no matter what the circumstances of the tournament are. ...it amuses me with people type long paragraphs about issues I am not talking about, | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:28 CosmicSpiral wrote: ...it amuses me with people type long paragraphs about issues I am not talking about, Sorry your one line response wasn't clear enough. He responded to the highlighted part, assumed you meant the problem is the Bo1 format. | ||
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DrakeFZX3
United States925 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:28 CosmicSpiral wrote: ...it amuses me with people type long paragraphs about issues I am not talking about, I find it funny rather than refute his argument, you type a single statement that explains nothing. | ||
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ElephantBaby
United States1365 Posts
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:TheBB#Code_S_streaks | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:37 Hassybaby wrote: Sorry your one line response wasn't clear enough. He responded to the highlighted part, assumed you meant the problem is the Bo1 format. I do think the BO1 format is a problem, but it's not necessarily because the "better" player will fail to make it out of his group. That happens all the time in BO3, BO5, BO7, etc. because one player outplays the other one. However this format obscures who "deserves" Code S status because it promotes map-specific strategies and generally poor long-term play in combination. While the unorthodox plays have been well-executed for the most part, the macro games have been uniformly terrible with a few exceptions (e.g. Gumiho vs Ryung). I don't know why this is the case but it's happened far too often to be a mere coincidence. In short I think this format is far too loose in distinguishing Code S from Code A. On December 22 2011 01:38 DrakeFZX3 wrote: I find it funny rather than refute his argument, you type a single statement that explains nothing. His argument and my argument are completely different. Why should I bother refuting an argument that has nothing to do with my complaint? Maybe tree.hugger should ask me to clarify my position before trying to rip me apart. | ||
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