EPT+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6933/stabbing.png)
p.s. I don't think your maps suck :D
[1500$] SC2 Edmonton Open Nov 26-27th - Page 4
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Clonze
Canada281 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + p.s. I don't think your maps suck :D | ||
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Goliath0nline
Canada165 Posts
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
On November 08 2011 11:10 DYEAlabaster wrote: Ithaca wasn't (it wasn't stated as such anyway). And yes, while we saw them all once, they were rarely (if ever) played. also ONCE < #times/ladder/gsl (do keep in mind that replays on those maps help dev. strategies) Edit: Once doesn't make the maps not-new. Ah you're right I remember now. I agree, once doesn't make the maps not new. The point I was trying to make there was that this shouldn't be the first time the majority of these players are seeing these maps. Technically speaking, they'd have been practicing them since before the last tournament. I feel like a lot of people here are misunderstanding a lot of things so I'm going to attempt to clear the air. These opinions are mine and mine alone and should not reflect CASL. This tournament is unlike the ones we've had in Edmonton thus far. A prize pool that is several orders of magnitude larger combined with a larger entry fee and a relatively unorthodox map pool should indicate one thing: this is a tournament for serious players. To the best of my knowledge, CASL was created with the philosophy that it would be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things - teams, tournaments, etc. To give them the opportunity to get put on the map and maybe get noticed by some talent scouts or something equivalent. This has some known implications. The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament. The players successful in this tournament will however display aptitude in all areas of SC2 - beyond that of which you can accomplish by grinding hundreds of hours on ladder maps. As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things" Let's talk about the map pool itself. It's pretty clear that CASL came directly to me for my opinions on the maps. While there is some personal bias towards the maps, this map pool also represents what I feel is the most well-rounded set of maps that you can get in a map pool today. This map pool has been very successful in the Korean Weekly giving us a ton of data to examine and take into future events. I won't get into all of the specific details because I don't have three hours to explain everything, but here's the jist of it: The chosen maps are the ones the KW comes back to time and time again for plenty of reasons. The maps are all relatively balanced, they're all tested (barring publication issues on NA which I'll make sure are sorted out as soon as I click the post button), provide exciting gameplay (viewership for the live cast is extremely important here as well as it provides evidence of CASL's success to take to sponsors and investors in the future) and presents the widest array of different types of maps you can have, showcasing player's strengths and weaknesses ultimately resulting in what should be considered the better player to come out the victor. (For example,the map pool includes maps that are easier to cheese or rush (Dual Sight, Sungsu Crossing) on and maps that are easier to play a turtle-y macro style on (Tal'Darim Altar, Ithaca)). I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well. EDIT: ESV Sandshorn Mist AE is correctly published on NA by SUPEROUMAN. Sungsu Crossing still isn't, I'm on monitor's ass about it | ||
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Versailles
Canada108 Posts
On November 08 2011 11:29 Clonze wrote: I hope nobody gets stabbed over this map pool discussion... careful though, it is Edmonton, ANYTHING is possible. + Show Spoiler + p.s. I don't think your maps suck :D LOL, that picture, Clonze. GG WP. | ||
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burster
Canada66 Posts
O STILL COMPLAINING THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT C YA ON THE 26TH AND I WONT SEE YOU ON THE 27TH! LOL C WHAT I DID THERE. Edit: held down the shift key too much, my apologizes | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
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Gofarman
Canada648 Posts
On November 07 2011 04:39 DTK920 wrote: I'll definitely be there to watch but I doubt I'll compete. How much is the venue fee for just watching? There will be no cost to watch day1, with that said the place will be pretty full and space will be at a premium so players will of course be favored. Day2 details are still being cemented and when I have details I will update the OP. | ||
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Yuis
Canada134 Posts
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DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
On November 08 2011 11:39 prodiG wrote:m since before the last tournament. I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well. While I understand what you are saying, at the end of the day, I still have three comments. First, and this is nothing personal, I don't feel that the person who is being consulted for map choice should plug their own map. Not saying that your map is bad, not saying that I don't want to play it, but it seriously de-legitimizes anything you are saying about the map pool. Don't take offence, but feel free to scroll through 4 pages of people being angry for just that reason. Secondly, I don't understand why the choice of map pool wasn't put to a vote by the players. With a sample size of, say 50, or more, you could get more of a balanced view-point than from the advice of one (however talented) designer. Thirdly, while everything you said makes sense and really does speak to a good system, it does not change the fact that introducing almost half of the map-pool as "new" or "unplayed" maps is not a good practise. Looking to MLG, GSL, or WCG, each seasonal change does not bring a 40% change to the map pool, barring some hugely realized flaw in the existent one. Moreover, going by the legitimacy of the Korean Weekly is lesser than going by the legitimacy of MLG or GSL. Why? Because if you are going for this sort of "high class, wanting to be noticed, super-tournament showcasing pure skill", then you should be looking for a sample size that mimics the goal, ie, a high-class tournament that attracts the best players. Whatever the Korean Weekly is, it is not MLG or GSL in stature or standing. Perhaps it would be more tactful to go with something tried, true, and high-class for an inaugural tournament? At the end of the day, you will lose potential players (of all skill levels) because of the HUGE proportion of "unknown" maps to known maps. Please do not take offence, nothing was a slight against anyone in particular, just one voice trying to lend advice to make such an awesome event even better. | ||
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VforValdes
Canada96 Posts
I'm giving big ups to GoFarMan and OK Gaming for hosting another rad event. This is one of, if not the biggest local SC2 tournaments to date. Props for pushing the envelope and making things bigger and better. And even bigger props for undertaking the task of running the event. Yes, double props for simply hosting and running the event. Get your game faces on people, this one is gonna be sick. | ||
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Shiro420
Canada200 Posts
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
On November 08 2011 11:39 prodiG wrote: Ah you're right I remember now. I agree, once doesn't make the maps not new. The point I was trying to make there was that this shouldn't be the first time the majority of these players are seeing these maps. Technically speaking, they'd have been practicing them since before the last tournament. I feel like a lot of people here are misunderstanding a lot of things so I'm going to attempt to clear the air. These opinions are mine and mine alone and should not reflect CASL. This tournament is unlike the ones we've had in Edmonton thus far. A prize pool that is several orders of magnitude larger combined with a larger entry fee and a relatively unorthodox map pool should indicate one thing: this is a tournament for serious players. To the best of my knowledge, CASL was created with the philosophy that it would be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things - teams, tournaments, etc. To give them the opportunity to get put on the map and maybe get noticed by some talent scouts or something equivalent. This has some known implications. The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament. The players successful in this tournament will however display aptitude in all areas of SC2 - beyond that of which you can accomplish by grinding hundreds of hours on ladder maps. As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things" Let's talk about the map pool itself. It's pretty clear that CASL came directly to me for my opinions on the maps. While there is some personal bias towards the maps, this map pool also represents what I feel is the most well-rounded set of maps that you can get in a map pool today. This map pool has been very successful in the Korean Weekly giving us a ton of data to examine and take into future events. I won't get into all of the specific details because I don't have three hours to explain everything, but here's the jist of it: The chosen maps are the ones the KW comes back to time and time again for plenty of reasons. The maps are all relatively balanced, they're all tested (barring publication issues on NA which I'll make sure are sorted out as soon as I click the post button), provide exciting gameplay (viewership for the live cast is extremely important here as well as it provides evidence of CASL's success to take to sponsors and investors in the future) and presents the widest array of different types of maps you can have, showcasing player's strengths and weaknesses ultimately resulting in what should be considered the better player to come out the victor. (For example,the map pool includes maps that are easier to cheese or rush (Dual Sight, Sungsu Crossing) on and maps that are easier to play a turtle-y macro style on (Tal'Darim Altar, Ithaca)). I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well. EDIT: ESV Sandshorn Mist AE is correctly published on NA by SUPEROUMAN. Sungsu Crossing still isn't, I'm on monitor's ass about it I'm sorry, but I simply don't see how using the maps everyone has practiced and played on will in any way stop the CASL from being "a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players". Perhaps it's simply a difference of opinion, but I feel like using a standard map pool would even do a better job of that. How does having up-and-comers practice on these new maps prepare them for 'bigger and better events' (MLG's, online cups, etc) where they have to play on the normal maps? if anything, doesn't this just stop them from devoting all their time to the maps of the 'bigger and better' events? Having a mechanically sound and well practiced player get blind-sided by a weaker player through the use of a nuance of a new map isn't going to promote the best player winning either. Wouldn't that sort of situation do the opposite of 'exposing a fraud'? The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament. Even if everything i've said is absolutely incorrect, I'm still sure there are ways for an event to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming players without completely alienating everyone who hasn't quit their job to play starcraft. Are MLG, GSL, IPL, and Dreamhack events not "strictly competitive"? They use relatively standard map pools. I don't feel like using new maps will give the event some sort of mystical aura of true competition. A better player should be able to win without having the advantage of being the only person to have any experience on the map. You are just arbitrarily giving the already established players an advantage heading into each game, which seems counter productive to your purpose. | ||
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Versailles
Canada108 Posts
On November 08 2011 14:58 VforValdes wrote: Lets promote this event positively guys. I'm giving big ups to GoFarMan and OK Gaming for hosting another rad event. This is one of, if not the biggest local SC2 tournaments to date. Props for pushing the envelope and making things bigger and better. And even bigger props for undertaking the task of running the event. Yes, double props for simply hosting and running the event. Get your game faces on people, this one is gonna be sick. Fact. GET HYPE. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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burster
Canada66 Posts
The results of the Tournie are going to be relatively the same as previous tournaments. Its gonna be an Archaic/ander/Burster/ice/LagLovah/anderyo top 3 and the usual's filling out the top 16. (yeah fk u sunshine gateinurbase sup) We here aren't near high enough a level to really be complaining about maps. Unless a bunch of nobos from somewhere show up out of the blue, it'll be about the same top 16 from the tournament in August. The one with the quality Zerg players. If your worried about exploits on the maps, it should in fact be the higher tiered players concerned about retarded play styles of the lowers because they too haven't had experience playing Gold-low Masters on those maps because they only practice within their own elitest group of A teamers. Lastly, if there is another post about maps imma change ur tshirt 4 u | ||
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SniperVul5
Canada166 Posts
I mean 40 dollars is expensive in itself please don't squeeze any more money out of us. | ||
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LagLovah
Canada552 Posts
 . This event on last weekend november not 3rd weekend zzz. Wont be attending not worth it to take time off work like usual | ||
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Kusch
Canada16 Posts
As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things" I have no valid opinion on the map selection but I just wanted to add to what prodiG mentioned. Archaic does not have much time on his hands, but he does make time. He also works a full-time job and volunteers. Like I said, though he doesn't have much time to play Starcraft but he makes time and is dedicated to learning the game in different ways. Those ways can be learning new maps. So yes, people may not like these maps, but it is what it is. If you want to be among the top, show your dedication to learning the maps and proving you can continue to grow as a player. Like I said though, my opinion is not really valid but take it for what it is. | ||
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Smiley.
Canada13 Posts
ESLOverclockedbrickyard | ||
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Sceptre
Canada130 Posts
On November 08 2011 17:14 SniperVul5 wrote: Will we have to pay extra on top of this just for getting the all day play pass? That would seriously be pushing how much we pay. I mean 40 dollars is expensive in itself please don't squeeze any more money out of us. This is actually pretty important. Will the 40 $ cover the entry fee + the computers for the day? | ||
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