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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X9hom.jpg)
Congrats to our top 16 stream live in under 1hr
Stream Link
Casting will be done by Edmonton's own prodiG, courtesy of ESVTV,
co-caster To be announced.
Prize Pool:1500$
Entry Fee: 40$ in Advance, 45$ day of
Tournament Size: 64 Max
**Top 16 Paid**
Event location:
OverKlocked Gaming & Computers
11618 - 119 St
Edmonton, AB
Venue opens at 10AM
Date/Time:
November 26th 12PM-finish*
November 27th 12PM-finish
+ Show Spoiler [ Tournament Format] +(All matches are Bo3 unless otherwise noted) Day 1 will commence at 12:00 PM on November 26th and will follow the standard double elimination format with the goal of reaching top 16. Top 16 will be the 16 highest seeded players as determined by a incomplete double elimination bracket. Day 1 of the event the LB will be played out until LB round 5, the WB will be played out until WB round 4. The Bracket after Day 1 will look like this; Example Bracket Day 2 will commence at 12:00 PM on November 27th and will have a group stage into single elimination tournament. The top 16 seeds will be seeded into Day2 based upon there earned seed. Seeds 5-12 will be placed into 4 groups with 2 players in each group as the bracket shows. The 1-4th seeds will choose from the 13-16th seeds and a group to join. The order will be determined randomly. The Groups will be played out with the 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in each group. The groups will proceed in a Winner plays Winner and Loser Plays Loser. The two players with a record of 1-1 will play to determine the second place in the group. Top 2 players will proceed from each group. They will be seeded into a 8 man single elimination bracket. Here are the maps that will start the Bo3's for day1; WR1- GSL Antiga Shipyard WR2- GSL Daybreak WR3- Tal'Darim Altar LE WR4- GSL Dual Sight LR1- GSL Daybreak LR2- Tal'Darim Altar LE LR3- ESV Sungsu Crossing AE LR4- GSL Dual Sight LR5- ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Here are the 1st map for Day 2 Rd1 grp ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Rd2 grp GSL Daybreak Rd3 grp** GSL Antiga Shipyard Ro8 Tal'Darim Altar LE Ro4 ESV Sungsu Crossing AE Ro2 ESV Ithaca **any tiebreakers will be bo1 and the map will be chosen by veto. (with no map repeats in progressive tie breakers.)
+ Show Spoiler [Prize Pool breakdown] +First Place - $360
Second Place - $240
Third/Fourth - $130
5th-8th - 80$
9th-16th - 40$
+ Show Spoiler [ Map Pool] +
+ Show Spoiler [Tournament Rules] +1. Players may bring their own mouse, keyboard, headset, and mouse pad. If you choose to not bring any peripherals you must use the provided equipment. Players must use the PC and Monitor provided by CASL.
2. Headsets must utilize a standard 3.5mm stereo headset jack with a separate 3.5mm microphone jack. Players may not use USB headsets.
3. All Player equipment is subject to approval.
4. Players must provide their own Battle.net account with an active Starcraft 2 license for the North American (NA) Region.
5. Players may not use 3rd party Add-ons.
6. Players may not alter game files or modify drivers.
7. Players may not disable the “Save All Replays” Gameplay Option, remove a replay, or copy a replay.
8. Breaking any of Equipment Rules #8-12 will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
9. Players may not change the Computer/Monitor sound and video settings in Windows.
10. Players may not use the Windowed or Windowed (Full Screen) Display Modes.
11. Players who break Equipment Rules will be given a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
General Rules
1. The latest official Patch version will be used throughout the Event.
2. In the case of a Computer/Monitor/Internet/Battle.net malfunction, the Game may be restarted from the beginning, determined by a tournament Admin.
3. If a Player fails to report to their Station within 10 minutes of their Match’s announcement, they will Forfeit the 1st Game. If a Player fails to report to their Station within 20 minutes of their Match’s announcement, they will Forfeit the Match. If Players scheduled to play each other both Forfeit a Game or Match, the higher seeded Player will win the Game or Match. If a Match is announced prior to its scheduled start time, the Forfeit timer will start at the Match’s scheduled start time.
4. Players may ask their Referee for permission to leave their Station if their Match has not been completed. Referees may set a time limit by the end of which the Player must return to their Station or they may deny the Player’s request. Players may Forfeit a Game(s) if they haven’t returned by the end of their Referee’s set time limit. Players may Forfeit a Game(s) if they leave their Station without their Referee’s permission, or are otherwise unable to play.
5. Players may ask the tournament Admin for an extended break between Matches. The tournament Admin may set a time limit by the end of which the Player must report to their upcoming Match’s Station or they may also deny the Player’s request. Players may Forfeit a Game(s) if they haven’t reported to their upcoming Match’s Station by the end of their Tournament Admins set time limit.
6. In order to dispute Game results, Players must notify their Referee that they would like to Protest the Game before a new Game has begun. In order to dispute Match results, Players must notify their Referee that they would like to Protest the Match before the Match’s Score Sheet has been submitted to the Starcraft 2 Tournament Admin.
Gameplay
1. Players may Pause a Game if they have their Referee’s permission or if they have agreed to a Pause of the Game with their opponent in in-game chat. Referees may approve or deny a Player’s request to Pause a Game. Pausing a Game without Referee’s or opposing Player’s permission will result in a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
2. Players found chatting about companies, sponsors, or products will be given a Foul. Players found to be chatting excessively will be given a Foul.
3. Players may not look at an opposing Player’s Monitor or projected screen.
4. Players must disable Toast Notifications in the Battle.net options.
5. Players must set their status to Busy.
6. Any sign of cheating may result in a Forfeit of the Game, disqualification from the Event, a Temporary (or Permanent) Ban from CASL events.
8. The Map for Game 1 of each Match will be selected by CASL and announced prior to the Event.
9. Prior to the start of a Best of 3 Game Match and the Blind Pick of Races, each Player may select one Map, from the list of Maps, that can’t be chosen for Games 2 or 3. The lower seeded Player will be given the opportunity to select a Map first. The higher seeded Player will then be given the opportunity to select a Map.
10. The loser of a Game must select the Map for the next Game.
11. No Map may be played more than once in the same Best of 3 Game Match or Best of 5 Game Match.
12. Players may request that their Referee conduct a Blind Pick of Races for all Games.
13. Players must choose a race for the entire series.
14. If a Game is started without the approval of a Referee it will be restarted from the beginning.
15. Players who quit out of a Game before it has ended, without Referee’s permission, will Forfeit the Game.
16. Players who are disqualified prior to the start of a Game will not be allowed to play in the Game. Players who are disqualified during a Game must quit out of the Game. Players who are disqualified won’t receive any Rank Points for their ranking in the Event.
17. Only CASL Staff members may connect to the server as an observer. Inviting someone to observe a Match without Referee’s permission will result in a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game.
18. If a Player loses their connection to the Host during a Game or their connection becomes unstable, the in-game disconnect timer will be used. If the timer reaches 0, the Game will be restarted from the beginning.
19. If an observer loses their connection to the Game, but both Players remain in the Game, the Game must continue.
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Congrats to All.
Here are the results;
360$
Dime
240$
Andro
130$
OKGSunshine
RevSarovati
80$
OKGAnder
OKGArchaic
Ceevee
Drone
40$
Clonze
Mintystone
Alabaster
Ice
La Peste
Brofessional
Kcaz
Kreem
---Top 16 cut off---
Boreas
Xavil
nyar
Einstien
Want more info? check out the Brackets.
Day 1 Day2 (unfortunately I have yet to reconstruct the group stages since there are no bracket systems out there for WvsW and LvsL group bracket formats... really? I will be doing that in the near future once I have stuff sorted out.)
Thanks to those of you that came out and I had a great time. Keep an eye out for the next CASL event in the new year.
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Shout out to the cool Edmonton gaming peeps I met at Calgary
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On November 06 2011 16:44 kellymilkies wrote:
Shout out to the cool Edmonton gaming peeps I met at Calgary
lol still bored because you woke up too early?  thx for the shoutout ^_^
This is gonna be an awesome tournament :D
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This will be an epic event. GET HYPE.
There's a 90% chance that I won't be competing, but I will be there! Not sure exactly when because I need to ponder what my work schedule could look like that weekend. I'm stoked, though.
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HELL, ITS ABOUT TIME
looks like i need to start to practice again.
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hmmmm 40 bucks is kinda steep for me right now but i might show up
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I'll be there. Also.. Due to me being a Protoss player, hopefully the new patch hits with the EMP nerf and such before the tourny starts. Haha.
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I'll definitely be there to watch but I doubt I'll compete. How much is the venue fee for just watching?
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hope sinatra shows up after his pathetic bm at fraga
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maybe if they fix the bug where protoss is trash ill come play!
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lol sinatra didnt bm at fraga the other guy was the one that was bm,
but this event will be great. lots of decent talent is gonna show up.
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Hopefully i can make it out to this one, get a group set up to get down there.
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yet again, disappointed about the map pool.
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Lol ice you have three weeks to practice and learn them. If you don't wanna do it then enjoy getting bodied by anyone taking this seriously.
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On November 07 2011 07:32 -IceStarcraft- wrote:
yet again, disappointed about the map pool.
Because it's good...?
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On November 07 2011 07:36 Versailles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 07:32 -IceStarcraft- wrote:
yet again, disappointed about the map pool. Because it's good...?
No, because it's different than every other map pool we ever play on in any other tournament or on ladder. People may be reluctant to drop 40-45 dollars to play in a tournament on maps that are very unfamiliar to them. Some people have day jobs and don't have time to "spend the next three weeks getting ready for the maps". And even if they didn't have day jobs, some of us don't have anyone to practice on those maps with and get most of our practice on ladder.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed in this map pool. Some people want new maps, some people don't. Everyone isn't required to be in love with the maps you guys make. There are only two maps in the pool that most of us likely spend any time playing on.
I guess it's just frustrating for some of us to see the LANs in our area choose map pools that suit their organizer's personal bias towards maps and not choose maps that would have a broader appeal to as many people as possible. Obviously you guys run the show and can pick whatever maps you want, but you can't possibly get offended or confused when people say they are disappointed with the map pool.
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On November 06 2011 16:44 kellymilkies wrote:
Shout out to the cool Edmonton gaming peeps I met at Calgary
When were you in Calgary? O_o
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The maps aren't chose for bias, they're chosen because this is what we foel will be the greatest determinant of skill
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I was just checking the rules, what is wrong with this one?
10. Players may not use the Windowed or Windowed (Full Screen) Display Modes.
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On November 07 2011 05:17 alokin wrote:
hope sinatra shows up after his pathetic bm at fraga
Not sure if serious or not lol =/
On November 07 2011 07:55 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 07:36 Versailles wrote:On November 07 2011 07:32 -IceStarcraft- wrote:
yet again, disappointed about the map pool. Because it's good...? No, because it's different than every other map pool we ever play on in any other tournament or on ladder. People may be reluctant to drop 40-45 dollars to play in a tournament on maps that are very unfamiliar to them. Some people have day jobs and don't have time to "spend the next three weeks getting ready for the maps". And even if they didn't have day jobs, some of us don't have anyone to practice on those maps with and get most of our practice on ladder. I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed in this map pool. Some people want new maps, some people don't. Everyone isn't required to be in love with the maps you guys make. There are only two maps in the pool that most of us likely spend any time playing on. I guess it's just frustrating for some of us to see the LANs in our area choose map pools that suit their organizer's personal bias towards maps and not choose maps that would have a broader appeal to as many people as possible. Obviously you guys run the show and can pick whatever maps you want, but you can't possibly get offended or confused when people say they are disappointed with the map pool.
I agree. I'm disappointed with the map pool. I'd much rather play on a "normal" map pool than have to learn these maps for a single tournament. Before the previous tournament, I'd never even heard of these maps before; having to learn them was sorta lame considering that there is a functional map pool that we've all been using for a long, long time. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who came last time had never even played an ESV map before. Regardless of whether they're superior, these maps have no appeal just because nobody plays them.
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Dude I honestly haven't herd anyone say we needed more maps than you.
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On November 07 2011 08:36 eYeball wrote:
I was just checking the rules, what is wrong with this one?
10. Players may not use the Windowed or Windowed (Full Screen) Display Modes.
I based my rules off the MLG rules, so some of them may not be 100% applicable to this size of event.
However, for that specific rule it would be of concern if we are able to set up first person views since we would have the annoying windowed border. I very much doubt it will be an issue though and if that is the way you feel most comfortable playing you should ask your ref for permission to do so.
Hope that clears it up.
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On November 07 2011 07:55 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 07:36 Versailles wrote:On November 07 2011 07:32 -IceStarcraft- wrote:
yet again, disappointed about the map pool. Because it's good...? No, because it's different than every other map pool we ever play on in any other tournament or on ladder. People may be reluctant to drop 40-45 dollars to play in a tournament on maps that are very unfamiliar to them. Some people have day jobs and don't have time to "spend the next three weeks getting ready for the maps". And even if they didn't have day jobs, some of us don't have anyone to practice on those maps with and get most of our practice on ladder. I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed in this map pool. Some people want new maps, some people don't. Everyone isn't required to be in love with the maps you guys make. There are only two maps in the pool that most of us likely spend any time playing on. I guess it's just frustrating for some of us to see the LANs in our area choose map pools that suit their organizer's personal bias towards maps and not choose maps that would have a broader appeal to as many people as possible. Obviously you guys run the show and can pick whatever maps you want, but you can't possibly get offended or confused when people say they are disappointed with the map pool.
Yeah, I do hear what you are saying. The map pool was one of the hardest decisions that I had to make and looked for as much advice from all levels of play to reach a good balance, both in gameplay and diversity. Based upon feedback I think I would feel comfortable with allowing 1 veto for each round, we will see about that.
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I can't seem to find these maps;
ESV Sungsu Crossing AE
ESV Sanshorn Mist AE
I'm assuming it's the iCCup versions?
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On November 07 2011 09:32 burster wrote:
I can't seem to find these maps;
ESV Sungsu Crossing AE
ESV Sanshorn Mist AE
I'm assuming it's the iCCup versions?
I will update that and prod the ESV map making group to republish the map under the ESV tag, thanks for the note.
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Practicing these right maps right now... When searching for Sungsu we found it under Iccup.. Not sure about Sanshorn yet, but probably the same thing since the only ESV map is Ithica.
EDIT: Soooooo after playing on Sungsu Crossing AE... Just going to throw this out there... The Natural mineral line can be sieged from the low ground outside the natural. If you look at the map, or happen to be playing on it, you will notice that means the defender has to actually walk through the tank fire, around a wall, and down the ramp to actually get to the tanks that are capable of killing your workers.
So, might wanna either fix that or replace the map. It is something that should be addressed.
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On November 07 2011 10:11 s[O]rry wrote:
Practicing these right maps right now... When searching for Sungsu we found it under Iccup.. Not sure about Sanshorn yet, but probably the same thing since the only ESV map is Ithica.
EDIT: Soooooo after playing on Sungsu Crossing AE... Just going to throw this out there... The Natural mineral line can be sieged from the low ground outside the natural. If you look at the map, or happen to be playing on it, you will notice that means the defender has to actually walk through the tank fire, around a wall, and down the ramp to actually get to the tanks that are capable of killing your workers.
So, might wanna either fix that or replace the map. It is something that should be addressed.
I would like to refer you to the TLPD index for that map where it is used in the Korean Weekly currently and has been for near 3 months. I ask that you don't just write these maps off, they are all viable in there current state at the top level. If you have some constructive feedback about either a specific map or the overall map pool please let me know though.
Thanks.
TLPD- ICCUP Sungsu Crossing AE
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On November 07 2011 06:23 Oldboysctv wrote:
lol sinatra didnt bm at fraga the other guy was the one that was bm,
but this event will be great. lots of decent talent is gonna show up.
get off his dick bro. he was total BM. he was the one that instigated and started that whole shit cause the other guy rolled through his friends. if this isnt instigating then i don't know what is:
"my friends told me to fucking destroy you, what do you think?"
if im also not mistaken you were the one who talked shit to me after I knocked you out of fraga too. slow your roll bud.
On November 07 2011 08:54 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 05:17 alokin wrote:
hope sinatra shows up after his pathetic bm at fraga Not sure if serious or not lol =/
yes. serious. i'm sure i can even get the replays and make a little video of it.
As much as I sound like a dick right now every gamer I've met in Edmonton has been good mannered, honest, awesome people. Ander, you being one of those awesome dudes. But Sinatra is the most arrogant piece of crap I have ever met. Not just in "gaming" but as a person in general. And has the decency to say all the shit talking was for "fun" after being confronted about it person and not behind a monitor.
[edit: ps. i'd like to add archaic and gofarman to the list of awesome dudes @ fraga... and... OKG ]
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On November 07 2011 17:08 alokin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 06:23 Oldboysctv wrote:
lol sinatra didnt bm at fraga the other guy was the one that was bm,
but this event will be great. lots of decent talent is gonna show up. get off his dick bro. he was total BM. he was the one that instigated and started that whole shit cause the other guy rolled through his friends. if this isnt instigating then i don't know what is: "my friends told me to fucking destroy you, what do you think?" if im also not mistaken you were the one who talked shit to me after I knocked you out of fraga too. slow your roll bud. Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 08:54 ander wrote:On November 07 2011 05:17 alokin wrote:
hope sinatra shows up after his pathetic bm at fraga Not sure if serious or not lol =/ yes. serious. i'm sure i can even get the replays and make a little video of it. As much as I sound like a dick right now every gamer I've met in Edmonton has been good mannered, honest, awesome people. Ander, you being one of those awesome dudes. But Sinatra is the most arrogant piece of crap I have ever met. Not just in "gaming" but as a person in general. And has the decency to say all the shit talking was for "fun" after being confronted about it person and not behind a monitor. [edit: ps. i'd like to add archaic and gofarman to the list of awesome dudes @ fraga... and... OKG ]
Thanks for the kind words, but please take this old issue to PM if there is anything left to say about it.
Thanks.
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Two things I'd like to ask:
1- What provoked this map pool? As has already been stated, 3/7 of these maps are those that this demographic would have absolutely zero exposure to. I understand they are used in Korean weeklies, but I don't know anyone who plays in those... It seems weird to have such unknown (not to mention stylistic) maps in the map pool, rather than ones that everyone would have a chance to play/have been proven to be wholly balanced (many of the maps on the weekly are still in testing/not truly level, eg, Bel-Shir Beach pre-patch). I'm not flaming or nagging the pool, I'm just wondering why we are playing with such maps. If we are going to map exposure, why not have 1, max 2, rather than 3/7... It seems a bit overkill. And the good point was made that many people are not going to have time to practise all of these new maps... and it might turn away players who are bordering with going/not. Also, 1 map veto seems a bit irrelevant.... being able to veto 1/3 unknown maps doesn't do much for the fact that 2/3 can still be chosen.
2- I don't quite understand the decision behind the prize-pool. Ignoring that it doesn't add up to 1500 (more 1350, but this is unimportant), why was there a choice made to include 9-16 in the prizes? I mean, I understand that choice for either a more casual event or a larger pool of money, but I'm just wondering why this was the case, rather than inflating the 1-3 prizes more... Is it that you are planning on the prize pool expanding in the future as more sponsors come along, and you are setting a precedent for the distribution ratio? Maybe it's just my personal bias for rewarding only the top, however (ps, I understand that almost all "big" tournaments reward up until XXspot, but they also have much much more money to drop)
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Thanks in advance to any reply you may have ^^
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Not going to lie, the prospect of working on all of these new maps is daunting, but sounds like a fun challenge. I bet we'll see some good competition, can't wait to attend!
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yet again, disappointed about the map pool
I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed in this map pool. Some people want new maps, some people don't. Everyone isn't required to be in love with the maps you guys make. There are only two maps in the pool that most of us likely spend any time playing on.
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I feel like the best way to go about map pools is to include 4-5 popular maps, with the addition of 2-3 new ones that you want people to try out/test the waters for. The people who want to win will study the new maps anyways. Makes the barrier for entry a little bit smaller IMO.
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why do they always make map pools that have the most obscure and unplayed maps?
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I'll look into what's wrong with finding the maps this evening :/
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Time to start training hard xD
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It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them)....
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On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them)....
+ Show Spoiler +It's amazing that you guys give such a shit trying to promote your maps every chance you get. Especially at these local tournaments, where NOONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOUR CUSTOM MAPS. You have your own tournaments, stop trying to impose your maps on everything. If you guys wanna shell out some funds, then yeah then tournaments have a reason to use them, but until a significant impression is made on these tournaments, theres no reason to play them. Noone plays them for a reason. It takes enough time to ladder and do regular custom games, let alone play maps that noone plays. And sorry for sounding like an prick, but where do you get off comparing pro gamers in Korea to casual- semi-semi-semi pro at best players. Get off your high horse and stop being butthurt people dont want to play your maps. It gives such a dynamic advantage to players who have played vs havent played the maps so take your head out of your ass, and back to your korean weeklies where they belong. Maybe that will show you why basically noone uses your maps.... lmfao.
On November 07 2011 12:32 Gofarman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 10:11 s[O]rry wrote:
Practicing these right maps right now... When searching for Sungsu we found it under Iccup.. Not sure about Sanshorn yet, but probably the same thing since the only ESV map is Ithica.
EDIT: Soooooo after playing on Sungsu Crossing AE... Just going to throw this out there... The Natural mineral line can be sieged from the low ground outside the natural. If you look at the map, or happen to be playing on it, you will notice that means the defender has to actually walk through the tank fire, around a wall, and down the ramp to actually get to the tanks that are capable of killing your workers.
So, might wanna either fix that or replace the map. It is something that should be addressed. I would like to refer you to the TLPD index for that map where it is used in the Korean Weekly currently and has been for near 3 months. I ask that you don't just write these maps off, they are all viable in there current state at the top level. If you have some constructive feedback about either a specific map or the overall map pool please let me know though. Thanks. TLPD- ICCUP Sungsu Crossing AE
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry but theres a reason the Korean Weekly is the only place to really use ESV or ICCUP whatever bullshit they wanna call themselves. (Asides testbug ofc)
On November 07 2011 17:08 alokin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 06:23 Oldboysctv wrote:
lol sinatra didnt bm at fraga the other guy was the one that was bm,
but this event will be great. lots of decent talent is gonna show up. get off his dick bro. he was total BM. he was the one that instigated and started that whole shit cause the other guy rolled through his friends. if this isnt instigating then i don't know what is: "my friends told me to fucking destroy you, what do you think?"
if im also not mistaken you were the one who talked shit to me after I knocked you out of fraga too. slow your roll bud.
+ Show Spoiler +Cool story bro.
You guys were the ones who take shit so seriously you can make an excuse at fragapalooza of all places to try and stir shit up.
On November 07 2011 08:32 prodiG wrote:
The maps aren't chose for bias, they're chosen because this is what we foel will be the greatest determinant of skill
+ Show Spoiler +Guess thats why the GSL uses them.....
Oh wait.
User was warned for this post
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They used crossfire and dual sight in GSL, I don't get your argument.
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On November 08 2011 07:09 KingDime wrote:
They used crossfire and dual sight in GSL, I don't get your argument.
Yeah crossfire was an edited blizzard map, and Dual Sight was made by a professional mapmaker
+ Show Spoiler +
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Dual sight is the most horrid pvz map i've ever played.
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Yeah and there are some professional rules in PROFESSIONAL sports that are pretty horrid as well. But theres a reason people emulate the NHL and not the QMJHL
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On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them)....
1. We aren't pros; the korean players you're talking about are competing for Code-A spots, why would they complain? I dunno how you can even make that comparison.
2. It really seems like the only people who want ESV maps are the ESV dudes. That doesn't seem fair to have these maps imposed on people who would much rather not play them.
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On November 08 2011 07:26 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them).... 1. We aren't pros; the korean players you're talking about are competing for Code-A spots, why would they complain? I dunno how you can even make that comparison. 2. It really seems like the only people who want ESV maps are the ESV dudes. That doesn't seem fair to have these maps imposed on people who would much rather not play them.
We didn't select the map pool, the tourney admin did.......
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How about we stop the Bitch fest the maps are chosen they are not the best get over it
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On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them)....
The comparison with korean players is kind of... irrelevant.
Why would we want to pay money to go to a LAN, play our hearts out, and lose a decisive match because we didn't know you could put tanks at a certain spot or we didn't know how long it would take our units to get from one spot to another?
There's a compensation problem. The new maps come with certain downsides for players who haven't played on them, but we aren't benefiting by them being used. With the standard maps, those problems don't exist. It is not unreasonable to show displeasure in this thread about the map pool when we're told that we have to face these problems with new maps for no reason that is apparent to us. Where was the clamour to play on these maps?
It isn't the biggest deal, but I think criticism is not out of line.
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On November 08 2011 08:10 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them).... The comparison with korean players is kind of... irrelevant. Why would we want to pay money to go to a LAN, play our hearts out, and lose a decisive match because we didn't know you could put tanks at a certain spot or we didn't know how long it would take our units to get from one spot to another? There's a compensation problem. The new maps come with certain downsides for players who haven't played on them, but we aren't benefiting by them being used. With the standard maps, those problems don't exist. It is not unreasonable to show displeasure in this thread about the map pool when we're told that we have to face these problems with new maps for no reason that is apparent to us. Where was the clamour to play on these maps? It isn't the biggest deal, but I think criticism is not out of line.
You would rather possibly lose to maps that were not designed in any way shape or form for tournament play and often containing positional imbalances? Cause that's ladder maps.
Idk I just find this weird, I'm from the Michigan scene and our local players not only love but are so happy when new better maps are introduced. If Katrina was being used I could see a issue cause Katrina requires a totally different style. However Ithaca plays out not much different then Antiga in cross positions, and Sanshorn is basically a 2p Shakuras. Almost everything you do on those maps will work, they play out like any macro map with a easily defendable expo.
Sungsu is probably the most "radical" (using that term very loosely here) and it's still very straightforward. Very rush heavy, play safe, play like you would on say XNC. It's the one map I could see being an issue, but again it's not very crazy, just the 3 chokes leading into the natural are the only things that require any active thought.
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On November 08 2011 08:28 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 08:10 SiguR wrote:On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them).... The comparison with korean players is kind of... irrelevant. Why would we want to pay money to go to a LAN, play our hearts out, and lose a decisive match because we didn't know you could put tanks at a certain spot or we didn't know how long it would take our units to get from one spot to another? There's a compensation problem. The new maps come with certain downsides for players who haven't played on them, but we aren't benefiting by them being used. With the standard maps, those problems don't exist. It is not unreasonable to show displeasure in this thread about the map pool when we're told that we have to face these problems with new maps for no reason that is apparent to us. Where was the clamour to play on these maps? It isn't the biggest deal, but I think criticism is not out of line. You would rather possibly lose to maps that were not designed in any way shape or form for tournament play and often containing positional imbalances? Cause that's ladder maps. Idk I just find this weird, I'm from the Michigan scene and our local players not only love but are so happy when new better maps are introduced. If Katrina was being used I could see a issue cause Katrina requires a totally different style. However Ithaca plays out not much different then Antiga in cross positions, and Sanshorn is basically a 2p Shakuras. Almost everything you do on those maps will work, they play out like any macro map with a easily defendable expo. Sungsu is probably the most "radical" (using that term very loosely here) and it's still very straightforward. Very rush heavy, play safe, play like you would on say XNC. It's the one map I could see being an issue, but again it's not very crazy, just the 3 chokes leading into the natural are the only things that require any active thought.
i'd rather lose to my own mistakes or my opponents excellent play. That is much more likely to happen on maps i'm familiar with, and that's the bottom line.
These maps may play out similar to ladder maps in a broad sense, but that isn't the point. There are always going to be subtleties to the map that need to be learned over time. Not knowing the subtleties is one of the disadvantages i was talking about in my previous post. We are facing uncompensated disadvantages for no clear reason, hence the "i'm disappointed in the map pool" posts that are the cause for this conversation.
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On November 08 2011 08:28 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 08:10 SiguR wrote:On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them).... The comparison with korean players is kind of... irrelevant. Why would we want to pay money to go to a LAN, play our hearts out, and lose a decisive match because we didn't know you could put tanks at a certain spot or we didn't know how long it would take our units to get from one spot to another? There's a compensation problem. The new maps come with certain downsides for players who haven't played on them, but we aren't benefiting by them being used. With the standard maps, those problems don't exist. It is not unreasonable to show displeasure in this thread about the map pool when we're told that we have to face these problems with new maps for no reason that is apparent to us. Where was the clamour to play on these maps? It isn't the biggest deal, but I think criticism is not out of line. You would rather possibly lose to maps that were not designed in any way shape or form for tournament play and often containing positional imbalances? Cause that's ladder maps. Idk I just find this weird, I'm from the Michigan scene and our local players not only love but are so happy when new better maps are introduced. If Katrina was being used I could see a issue cause Katrina requires a totally different style. However Ithaca plays out not much different then Antiga in cross positions, and Sanshorn is basically a 2p Shakuras. Almost everything you do on those maps will work, they play out like any macro map with a easily defendable expo. Sungsu is probably the most "radical" (using that term very loosely here) and it's still very straightforward. Very rush heavy, play safe, play like you would on say XNC. It's the one map I could see being an issue, but again it's not very crazy, just the 3 chokes leading into the natural are the only things that require any active thought.
While ladder maps are not "Perfect" they are at least played hundreds and thousands of times by most of the players attending. Even the positional imbalances that you speak of have been played enough times that your average Gold player has a plan for what to do IF something does come up.
Playing the exact same style of new maps can often lead to a game changing decision that can work on one map (Imagine a roach timing on Antiga ZvP, going through the rocks to the third) to just being completely wrecked on another (2 forcefields in either direction can isolate the third on Ithaca iirc).
So yes it is possible to just take your games and superimpose them onto new maps. Will it work? Probably. Is it worth it to lose a money game on a tank on the low ground that you didn't think could range your natural? No. Not for a $40 entrance fee.
I am going to play whatever maps are presented, because that is what I do. I am going to learn Ithaca, and Sanshorn and Sungsu. I have the time to do that. But Johnny Bronze-player is not, and do we really want him to be upset that he lost his first tournament in two rounds because he didn't know the maps?
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On November 08 2011 04:58 DYEAlabaster wrote:Two things I'd like to ask: 1- What provoked this map pool? As has already been stated, 3/7 of these maps are those that this demographic would have absolutely zero exposure to. I understand they are used in Korean weeklies, but I don't know anyone who plays in those... It seems weird to have such unknown (not to mention stylistic) maps in the map pool, rather than ones that everyone would have a chance to play/have been proven to be wholly balanced (many of the maps on the weekly are still in testing/not truly level, eg, Bel-Shir Beach pre-patch). I'm not flaming or nagging the pool, I'm just wondering why we are playing with such maps. If we are going to map exposure, why not have 1, max 2, rather than 3/7... It seems a bit overkill. And the good point was made that many people are not going to have time to practise all of these new maps... and it might turn away players who are bordering with going/not. Also, 1 map veto seems a bit irrelevant.... being able to veto 1/3 unknown maps doesn't do much for the fact that 2/3 can still be chosen. 2- I don't quite understand the decision behind the prize-pool. Ignoring that it doesn't add up to 1500 (more 1350, but this is unimportant), why was there a choice made to include 9-16 in the prizes? I mean, I understand that choice for either a more casual event or a larger pool of money, but I'm just wondering why this was the case, rather than inflating the 1-3 prizes more... Is it that you are planning on the prize pool expanding in the future as more sponsors come along, and you are setting a precedent for the distribution ratio? Maybe it's just my personal bias for rewarding only the top, however (ps, I understand that almost all "big" tournaments reward up until XXspot, but they also have much much more money to drop)
First of all thanks for the feedback, about the prizepool that was an oversight and has been rectified. It now equals 1500$. As for the distribution it was purely a business decision. Since the buy-in is a bit high for some people I want to have a competitive tourney that can be sustainable, for the tourney to be sustainable we need to be able to draw more then our other normal tourney's in Edmonton this allows many of those players that end up in the top 8-16 range to rationalize the price.
If you guys have any questions I will be at the OverKlocked this evening from 6-10 for the SC2 night. Cya there.
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On November 08 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:
First of all thanks for the feedback, about the prizepool that was an oversight and has been rectified. It now equals 1500$. As for the distribution it was purely a business decision. Since the buy-in is a bit high for some people I want to have a competitive tourney that can be sustainable, for the tourney to be sustainable we need to be able to draw more then our other normal tourney's in Edmonton this allows many of those players that end up in the top 8-16 range to rationalize the price.
If you guys have any questions I will be at the OverKlocked this evening from 6-10 for the SC2 night. Cya there.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense. All I can hope is that this becomes (much) bigger so that more money can be transferred through it ^^
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I am going to play whatever maps are presented, because that is what I do. I am going to learn Ithaca, and Sanshorn and Sungsu. I have the time to do that. But Johnny Bronze-player is not, and do we really want him to be upset that he lost his first tournament in two rounds because he didn't know the maps?
Not to specifically alienate Johnny Bronze here but this tournament is clearly designed for competitive players with the much larger entry fee & map pool. The point of CASL is to showcase the skill of local Canadian talent and frankly... that's not going to be Johnny Bronze, or anyone else not willing to learn things like new maps.
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On November 08 2011 08:28 Diamond wrote:
You would rather possibly lose to maps that were not designed in any way shape or form for tournament play and often containing positional imbalances? Cause that's ladder maps.
Idk I just find this weird, I'm from the Michigan scene and our local players not only love but are so happy when new better maps are introduced. If Katrina was being used I could see a issue cause Katrina requires a totally different style. However Ithaca plays out not much different then Antiga in cross positions, and Sanshorn is basically a 2p Shakuras. Almost everything you do on those maps will work, they play out like any macro map with a easily defendable expo.
Sungsu is probably the most "radical" (using that term very loosely here) and it's still very straightforward. Very rush heavy, play safe, play like you would on say XNC. It's the one map I could see being an issue, but again it's not very crazy, just the 3 chokes leading into the natural are the only things that require any active thought.
I think the issue here isn't that the maps are "strange", but that they're new and unknown. It's not that people don't want to play them, it's that people don't want to bet $40 on their ability to know a map after, say, 5 games on it.
And I feel the big issue isn't that there exist maps made by others, it's the sheer volume of them. 42% of our maps are completely unknown, relatively untested maps. Given a veto, this would still be an issue, because people who did not want to play on them would still have to.
Why not settle an issue by limiting the number of maps that people don't have experience with? Personal experience (last tournament) shows that these maps rarely get played in a tournament unless someone has specifically practised it exclusively, knowing that they have an advantage over others. This isn't such a problem with other maps because at least people KNOW them, and how they work.
So, instead of this 3/7 split, why not have ONE ESV/ICCUP map (Ithaca is my personal vote).
If I could have it my way, this is what I would make the map pool-
Antiga Shipyard
Tal'darim Altar LE (both of these are ladder maps and known by everyone for sheer playing amount)
Bel-Shir Beach
Daybreak (two of, what I feel, the better designed GSL maps)
ICCUP Ithaca
Having 5 maps is more than enough for a tournament, but if any were to be added to this, I would say
Dual Sight (or) Testbug
Metalopolis (or) Shattered Temple
Calm Before the Storm
TL;DR ---> New maps are awesome, but shouldn't overwhelm the tournament
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On November 08 2011 08:42 s[O]rry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 08:28 Diamond wrote:On November 08 2011 08:10 SiguR wrote:On November 08 2011 06:34 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how the Korean players will play on any maps with no prior experience on them with 0 complaints yet people in NA and EU cry like hell every time a new map is used. ......
I get you guys are not pros, but the maps don't play out THAT different (it's not like you need to make up whole new builds and strats for them).... The comparison with korean players is kind of... irrelevant. Why would we want to pay money to go to a LAN, play our hearts out, and lose a decisive match because we didn't know you could put tanks at a certain spot or we didn't know how long it would take our units to get from one spot to another? There's a compensation problem. The new maps come with certain downsides for players who haven't played on them, but we aren't benefiting by them being used. With the standard maps, those problems don't exist. It is not unreasonable to show displeasure in this thread about the map pool when we're told that we have to face these problems with new maps for no reason that is apparent to us. Where was the clamour to play on these maps? It isn't the biggest deal, but I think criticism is not out of line. You would rather possibly lose to maps that were not designed in any way shape or form for tournament play and often containing positional imbalances? Cause that's ladder maps. Idk I just find this weird, I'm from the Michigan scene and our local players not only love but are so happy when new better maps are introduced. If Katrina was being used I could see a issue cause Katrina requires a totally different style. However Ithaca plays out not much different then Antiga in cross positions, and Sanshorn is basically a 2p Shakuras. Almost everything you do on those maps will work, they play out like any macro map with a easily defendable expo. Sungsu is probably the most "radical" (using that term very loosely here) and it's still very straightforward. Very rush heavy, play safe, play like you would on say XNC. It's the one map I could see being an issue, but again it's not very crazy, just the 3 chokes leading into the natural are the only things that require any active thought. While ladder maps are not "Perfect" they are at least played hundreds and thousands of times by most of the players attending. Even the positional imbalances that you speak of have been played enough times that your average Gold player has a plan for what to do IF something does come up. Playing the exact same style of new maps can often lead to a game changing decision that can work on one map (Imagine a roach timing on Antiga ZvP, going through the rocks to the third) to just being completely wrecked on another (2 forcefields in either direction can isolate the third on Ithaca iirc). So yes it is possible to just take your games and superimpose them onto new maps. Will it work? Probably. Is it worth it to lose a money game on a tank on the low ground that you didn't think could range your natural? No. Not for a $40 entrance fee. I am going to play whatever maps are presented, because that is what I do. I am going to learn Ithaca, and Sanshorn and Sungsu. I have the time to do that. But Johnny Bronze-player is not, and do we really want him to be upset that he lost his first tournament in two rounds because he didn't know the maps?
First off Jonny-Bronze will lose because he is bronze. Not because of the map.
Also to use your point how is it fair to the competitive players that want the most fair maps possible if they lose due to ladder maps? Isn't the whole bitch of this community for over a year been about how Blizz is making sc2 to newb friendly? Why would we want to do the same for tournies?
Also isn't it Blizz that said "our maps are not designed for tournament use."?
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TL;DR ---> New maps are awesome, but shouldn't overwhelm the tournament
Ithaca, Sandshorn Mist and Sungsu Crossing were all used at the last Edmonton SC2 tournament as well and as far as I know that's the only local competition for something like this which was part of the logic behind the selection. Everyone who went to the last Edmonton tournament will likely have seen the maps at LEAST once (far from perfect but better than nothing)
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Ithaca wasn't (it wasn't stated as such anyway).
And yes, while we saw them all once, they were rarely (if ever) played.
also ONCE < #times/ladder/gsl (do keep in mind that replays on those maps help dev. strategies)
Edit: Once doesn't make the maps not-new.
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More upset at taldarim being used then others tbh ... havent we done enough 4gating lately
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I hope nobody gets stabbed over this map pool discussion... careful though, it is Edmonton, ANYTHING is possible.
+ Show Spoiler +
p.s. I don't think your maps suck :D
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Finally I'm not the only one with the map pool being complete garbage. I would much rather work on my micro/macro then learn these maps. I am upset because I do have a job and don't have the time to learn all these new maps. honestly there should be a poll or something and the most highly voted maps be in the map pool. Not what ever prodiG wants he gets just because he is some big shot for Iccup ROFL.
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On November 08 2011 11:10 DYEAlabaster wrote:
Ithaca wasn't (it wasn't stated as such anyway).
And yes, while we saw them all once, they were rarely (if ever) played.
also ONCE < #times/ladder/gsl (do keep in mind that replays on those maps help dev. strategies)
Edit: Once doesn't make the maps not-new.
Ah you're right I remember now. I agree, once doesn't make the maps not new. The point I was trying to make there was that this shouldn't be the first time the majority of these players are seeing these maps. Technically speaking, they'd have been practicing them since before the last tournament.
I feel like a lot of people here are misunderstanding a lot of things so I'm going to attempt to clear the air. These opinions are mine and mine alone and should not reflect CASL.
This tournament is unlike the ones we've had in Edmonton thus far. A prize pool that is several orders of magnitude larger combined with a larger entry fee and a relatively unorthodox map pool should indicate one thing: this is a tournament for serious players. To the best of my knowledge, CASL was created with the philosophy that it would be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things - teams, tournaments, etc. To give them the opportunity to get put on the map and maybe get noticed by some talent scouts or something equivalent.
This has some known implications. The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament. The players successful in this tournament will however display aptitude in all areas of SC2 - beyond that of which you can accomplish by grinding hundreds of hours on ladder maps.
As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things"
Let's talk about the map pool itself. It's pretty clear that CASL came directly to me for my opinions on the maps. While there is some personal bias towards the maps, this map pool also represents what I feel is the most well-rounded set of maps that you can get in a map pool today. This map pool has been very successful in the Korean Weekly giving us a ton of data to examine and take into future events. I won't get into all of the specific details because I don't have three hours to explain everything, but here's the jist of it: The chosen maps are the ones the KW comes back to time and time again for plenty of reasons. The maps are all relatively balanced, they're all tested (barring publication issues on NA which I'll make sure are sorted out as soon as I click the post button), provide exciting gameplay (viewership for the live cast is extremely important here as well as it provides evidence of CASL's success to take to sponsors and investors in the future) and presents the widest array of different types of maps you can have, showcasing player's strengths and weaknesses ultimately resulting in what should be considered the better player to come out the victor. (For example,the map pool includes maps that are easier to cheese or rush (Dual Sight, Sungsu Crossing) on and maps that are easier to play a turtle-y macro style on (Tal'Darim Altar, Ithaca)).
I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well.
EDIT: ESV Sandshorn Mist AE is correctly published on NA by SUPEROUMAN. Sungsu Crossing still isn't, I'm on monitor's ass about it
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On November 08 2011 11:29 Clonze wrote:I hope nobody gets stabbed over this map pool discussion... careful though, it is Edmonton, ANYTHING is possible. + Show Spoiler +p.s. I don't think your maps suck :D
LOL, that picture, Clonze. GG WP.
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HAI, WUTS UP GUIS IM HERE AT OKG PRACTICING THESE NEW MAPS, WHERE ARE YOU?
O STILL COMPLAINING THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT C YA ON THE 26TH AND I WONT SEE YOU ON THE 27TH!
LOL C WHAT I DID THERE.
Edit: held down the shift key too much, my apologizes
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After actually playing the maps i found that i enjoy them and that people are just complaining we can all complain all we want but until you take initiative to actually learn to play on a VARIETY of maps then stfu and L2P
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On November 07 2011 04:39 DTK920 wrote:
I'll definitely be there to watch but I doubt I'll compete. How much is the venue fee for just watching?
There will be no cost to watch day1, with that said the place will be pretty full and space will be at a premium so players will of course be favored.
Day2 details are still being cemented and when I have details I will update the OP.
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I'll go watch as well ^__^ <3
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On November 08 2011 11:39 prodiG wrote:m since before the last tournament.
I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well.
While I understand what you are saying, at the end of the day, I still have three comments.
First, and this is nothing personal, I don't feel that the person who is being consulted for map choice should plug their own map. Not saying that your map is bad, not saying that I don't want to play it, but it seriously de-legitimizes anything you are saying about the map pool. Don't take offence, but feel free to scroll through 4 pages of people being angry for just that reason.
Secondly, I don't understand why the choice of map pool wasn't put to a vote by the players. With a sample size of, say 50, or more, you could get more of a balanced view-point than from the advice of one (however talented) designer.
Thirdly, while everything you said makes sense and really does speak to a good system, it does not change the fact that introducing almost half of the map-pool as "new" or "unplayed" maps is not a good practise. Looking to MLG, GSL, or WCG, each seasonal change does not bring a 40% change to the map pool, barring some hugely realized flaw in the existent one. Moreover, going by the legitimacy of the Korean Weekly is lesser than going by the legitimacy of MLG or GSL. Why? Because if you are going for this sort of "high class, wanting to be noticed, super-tournament showcasing pure skill", then you should be looking for a sample size that mimics the goal, ie, a high-class tournament that attracts the best players. Whatever the Korean Weekly is, it is not MLG or GSL in stature or standing. Perhaps it would be more tactful to go with something tried, true, and high-class for an inaugural tournament?
At the end of the day, you will lose potential players (of all skill levels) because of the HUGE proportion of "unknown" maps to known maps.
Please do not take offence, nothing was a slight against anyone in particular, just one voice trying to lend advice to make such an awesome event even better.
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Lets promote this event positively guys.
I'm giving big ups to GoFarMan and OK Gaming for hosting another rad event. This is one of, if not the biggest local SC2 tournaments to date. Props for pushing the envelope and making things bigger and better. And even bigger props for undertaking the task of running the event. Yes, double props for simply hosting and running the event.
Get your game faces on people, this one is gonna be sick.
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Glad to see this event is happening. Good luck with this guys!
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On November 08 2011 11:39 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 11:10 DYEAlabaster wrote:
Ithaca wasn't (it wasn't stated as such anyway).
And yes, while we saw them all once, they were rarely (if ever) played.
also ONCE < #times/ladder/gsl (do keep in mind that replays on those maps help dev. strategies)
Edit: Once doesn't make the maps not-new. Ah you're right I remember now. I agree, once doesn't make the maps not new. The point I was trying to make there was that this shouldn't be the first time the majority of these players are seeing these maps. Technically speaking, they'd have been practicing them since before the last tournament. I feel like a lot of people here are misunderstanding a lot of things so I'm going to attempt to clear the air. These opinions are mine and mine alone and should not reflect CASL. This tournament is unlike the ones we've had in Edmonton thus far. A prize pool that is several orders of magnitude larger combined with a larger entry fee and a relatively unorthodox map pool should indicate one thing: this is a tournament for serious players. To the best of my knowledge, CASL was created with the philosophy that it would be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things - teams, tournaments, etc. To give them the opportunity to get put on the map and maybe get noticed by some talent scouts or something equivalent. This has some known implications. The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament. The players successful in this tournament will however display aptitude in all areas of SC2 - beyond that of which you can accomplish by grinding hundreds of hours on ladder maps. As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things" Let's talk about the map pool itself. It's pretty clear that CASL came directly to me for my opinions on the maps. While there is some personal bias towards the maps, this map pool also represents what I feel is the most well-rounded set of maps that you can get in a map pool today. This map pool has been very successful in the Korean Weekly giving us a ton of data to examine and take into future events. I won't get into all of the specific details because I don't have three hours to explain everything, but here's the jist of it: The chosen maps are the ones the KW comes back to time and time again for plenty of reasons. The maps are all relatively balanced, they're all tested (barring publication issues on NA which I'll make sure are sorted out as soon as I click the post button), provide exciting gameplay (viewership for the live cast is extremely important here as well as it provides evidence of CASL's success to take to sponsors and investors in the future) and presents the widest array of different types of maps you can have, showcasing player's strengths and weaknesses ultimately resulting in what should be considered the better player to come out the victor. (For example,the map pool includes maps that are easier to cheese or rush (Dual Sight, Sungsu Crossing) on and maps that are easier to play a turtle-y macro style on (Tal'Darim Altar, Ithaca)). I understand player's frustrations with a map pool like this. I'll acknowledge that there are MANY ways to skin this cat. At the end of the day however, one thing is clear to me: If you're a fraud, you're going to get exposed hard in this tournament. If you've got what it takes to get to the next stage of high level SC2, you're going to do well. EDIT: ESV Sandshorn Mist AE is correctly published on NA by SUPEROUMAN. Sungsu Crossing still isn't, I'm on monitor's ass about it
I'm sorry, but I simply don't see how using the maps everyone has practiced and played on will in any way stop the CASL from being "a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players".
Perhaps it's simply a difference of opinion, but I feel like using a standard map pool would even do a better job of that. How does having up-and-comers practice on these new maps prepare them for 'bigger and better events' (MLG's, online cups, etc) where they have to play on the normal maps? if anything, doesn't this just stop them from devoting all their time to the maps of the 'bigger and better' events?
Having a mechanically sound and well practiced player get blind-sided by a weaker player through the use of a nuance of a new map isn't going to promote the best player winning either. Wouldn't that sort of situation do the opposite of 'exposing a fraud'?
The first and foremost of which is the alienation of the casual player. Unfortunately, this is VERY hard to avoid when creating a strictly - competitive tournament. Diamond nailed it on the head in an earlier post - Johnny Bronze isn't going to be the one winning this tournament.
Even if everything i've said is absolutely incorrect, I'm still sure there are ways for an event to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming players without completely alienating everyone who hasn't quit their job to play starcraft. Are MLG, GSL, IPL, and Dreamhack events not "strictly competitive"? They use relatively standard map pools. I don't feel like using new maps will give the event some sort of mystical aura of true competition. A better player should be able to win without having the advantage of being the only person to have any experience on the map. You are just arbitrarily giving the already established players an advantage heading into each game, which seems counter productive to your purpose.
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On November 08 2011 14:58 VforValdes wrote:
Lets promote this event positively guys.
I'm giving big ups to GoFarMan and OK Gaming for hosting another rad event. This is one of, if not the biggest local SC2 tournaments to date. Props for pushing the envelope and making things bigger and better. And even bigger props for undertaking the task of running the event. Yes, double props for simply hosting and running the event.
Get your game faces on people, this one is gonna be sick.
Fact.
GET HYPE.
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Bah I'd really consider coming if it was a bit more top heavy, maybe top 4 get the 1500, as it is even taking first wouldn't be worth going... I just had to move to Vancouver 2 weeks before this... qq.
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TBH,
The results of the Tournie are going to be relatively the same as previous tournaments. Its gonna be an Archaic/ander/Burster/ice/LagLovah/anderyo top 3 and the usual's filling out the top 16. (yeah fk u sunshine gateinurbase sup)
We here aren't near high enough a level to really be complaining about maps.
Unless a bunch of nobos from somewhere show up out of the blue, it'll be about the same top 16 from the tournament in August. The one with the quality Zerg players.
If your worried about exploits on the maps, it should in fact be the higher tiered players concerned about retarded play styles of the lowers because they too haven't had experience playing Gold-low Masters on those maps because they only practice within their own elitest group of A teamers.
Lastly, if there is another post about maps imma change ur tshirt 4 u
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Will we have to pay extra on top of this just for getting the all day play pass? That would seriously be pushing how much we pay.
I mean 40 dollars is expensive in itself please don't squeeze any more money out of us.
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Just realised u all lied to me last tourney  . This event on last weekend november not 3rd weekend zzz. Wont be attending not worth it to take time off work like usual
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As an example, I'm going to single out Archaic here. As most of you know he's a fantastic player and a great guy, but in the last tournament he made a huge effort to go above and beyond. During the Edmonton SC2 practice sessions he put in time on the new maps that he wasn't familiar with and guess what? He bodied *everyone* I saw him play on both Sungsu Crossing AE and Sandshorn Mists. To me, that indicates a few things. First off, if you look at his success on those two maps in a vacuum you'll quickly come to the conclusion "he practiced those maps more than anyone else and just has more time on his hands." While a claim like that might have some validity, he went on to win the tournament equally as successfully in the remaining maps in the map pool. He used creativity, mechanics and all around solid play on all of those maps to secure that victory and all of those things - and more are required to be a successful SC2 player. At this point I'm going to fall back again to the CASL philosophy here: "to be a stepping stone for up-and-coming Canadian Amateur SC2 players to move on to bigger and better things"
I have no valid opinion on the map selection but I just wanted to add to what prodiG mentioned. Archaic does not have much time on his hands, but he does make time. He also works a full-time job and volunteers. Like I said, though he doesn't have much time to play Starcraft but he makes time and is dedicated to learning the game in different ways. Those ways can be learning new maps. So yes, people may not like these maps, but it is what it is. If you want to be among the top, show your dedication to learning the maps and proving you can continue to grow as a player.
Like I said though, my opinion is not really valid but take it for what it is.
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i wonder if the map pool was maps no1 had ever played on before... then everyone would be on equal playing field at the surprise of the map. lololol
ESLOverclockedbrickyard
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On November 08 2011 17:14 SniperVul5 wrote:
Will we have to pay extra on top of this just for getting the all day play pass? That would seriously be pushing how much we pay.
I mean 40 dollars is expensive in itself please don't squeeze any more money out of us.
This is actually pretty important. Will the 40 $ cover the entry fee + the computers for the day?
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On November 09 2011 07:02 Sceptre wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 17:14 SniperVul5 wrote:
Will we have to pay extra on top of this just for getting the all day play pass? That would seriously be pushing how much we pay.
I mean 40 dollars is expensive in itself please don't squeeze any more money out of us.
This is actually pretty important. Will the 40 $ cover the entry fee + the computers for the day?
It's all about costs, imagine what cost it would be to rent out a Lan center with 50+ computers for 2 days; This would cost near 2k dollars easily. I said that to frame my answer, the costs will cover your computer costs from 12-6 (both days) until you are eliminated. Sorry if you think I am trying to squeeze you for cash but if we did what you wanted there would be no prize pool.
As for the cost of the 'day pass' that is Tims' prerogative (Lan owner).
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practice practice practice practice >.<
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On November 08 2011 16:32 burster wrote:
The results of the Tournie are going to be relatively the same as previous tournaments. Its gonna be an Archaic/ander/Burster/ice/LagLovah/anderyo top 3 and the usual's filling out the top 16. (yeah fk u sunshine gateinurbase sup)
Imma straight up send you a very strongly worded letter. In the mail. Be ready.
Next, Ithaca. After reading through this thread to see if this blatant imbalance was a feature or not (Hint: It is not), just figured I would post it here as well:
The natural thirds of the top right and bottom left bases. The ones with those adorable beaches underwater right beside them. That water is NOT impassable terrain. "What do you mean, Sunshine?" I mean Blink/Drops can get your units INTO THAT AREA. Can you walk in after them? NOPE, CHUCK TESTA. But don't worry, the units, once dropped in, can't move because there are rocks blocking them... For the most part. You know what units could give a submarine-ing shit about rocks? Tanks. And Colossi. And whatever else range unit. Both of which can be airlifted into this delightful little nook and... You guessed it! Slap that base right in the dick. "Oh, but don't Zergs have Mutalisks? If the units can't move, Mutas'll be so gud!" You are right, I forgot. Mutas. Hopefully I didn't have any other build planned. If I did, too bad, I have to go Mutas JUST TO BE SURE that I don't lose to a shift-Clicked Medivac + Tank.
Maybe I get lucky. I am a pretty lucky guy. This one time... All on Double-0. Boom. Rich. And maybe that carries over and the Terran doesn't build tanks. Or Medivacs. But what about Stalkers? With Blink? I dare say they are a TOUCH more common than the other two, highly elusive units mentioned. Or, better yet, no Protoss / Terrans will read this post and won't have to just build Air defense for the ONE build I am forced to do. Blackjack.
Truthfully, I don't have time to watch every Korean weekly game ever played on this map to see if it is used. If anyone wants to do it for me, find me a game (Preferably vs Zerg, ya know, the almost 100% melee race?) where units are dropped in that zone and the other player doesn't just leave, I will eat my words and play Terran or something. It looks impassable, why try to drop there? But you can. So now half the spawns on that map are as useless as practice games with Burster, the other map can be sieged from the low-ground, and I had planned to Veto Sanshorn so I haven't played it, but come on... It started out as an annoyance, and is fast becoming the reason I am going to have to politely tell Tom I am not going to this tournament.
Maybe in even suggesting that, I lose my A-team status, but at this point... Whatever, savvy?
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Instead of bashing everything and going on and on about it, you could be mildly constructive and let me know that there's an issue. I'll fix that tonight (the pathing layer is fucking buggy as hell and this shit happens all the time despite looking fine).
If there's a bullshit problem like this on an ESV map let me know ASAP and I'll fix it/let whoever made the map know and it'll get fixed within a day. This is *not* intentional and easily slips through beta testing/QA
...Thanks for pointing that out
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On November 09 2011 12:11 prodiG wrote:
Instead of bashing everything and going on and on about it, you could be mildly constructive and let me know that there's an issue. I'll fix that tonight (the pathing layer is fucking buggy as hell and this shit happens all the time despite looking fine).
If there's a bullshit problem like this on an ESV map let me know ASAP and I'll fix it/let whoever made the map know and it'll get fixed within a day. This is *not* intentional and easily slips through beta testing/QA
...Thanks for pointing that out
THANK YOU.
But you are missing the overall point, methinks. You can fix this map, that would be Mint. Once that is done, I will viciously spend the next week trying to find more things to complain about, I promise. But this is news to you. You made the map, and didn't notice this. Fine, that is why people test maps, it is all part of the process. Even they can't catch everything though, clearly, since I just found something that ruins half the spawns.
Maybe I am just being too much of a child in thinking that these unnoticed things that exist in these maps that are not played as often as the ladder maps, or MLG maps, or GSL maps, can go unnoticed until it is actually happening to you? For money?
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The 1% is controlling 99% of the maps. #occupyedmonton
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On November 09 2011 12:26 ander wrote:
The 1% is controlling 99% of the maps. #occupyedmonton
The 1% is controlling 99% of the maps. #occupymetalopolis
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Just as an example of a lost player due to maps. As soon as iccup maps and extras were introduced I stopped attending. I am one of those that do not wish to waste time on maps only for the local scene and will never have to play anywhere else. Just something to think about. I get that this could be used to help our locals that could possibly go on to bigger and better starcraft but if in the end in a year you are left with a tournament of 4-8 people. Thats a dead local scene.
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I've been playing Ithaca for the past 2 hours. This map is fucking HORRIBLE. Let's hope the rest aren't as bad. If they are, count me out of this garbage tournament.
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I have several things to say, and now that the discussion has had a chance to cool down I will say my part.
Firstly I want to say that for many of you that have posted in this thread I am quite surprised at this response. Many of the posters here are consistent attendees of the local tournaments and played on nearly the EXACT SAME map pool 3 weeks ago with no serious complaints to myself or the Shiro about this issue.
Lets look at the map pools side by side;
October | November
Dual Sight | Dual Sight
Antiga Shipyard | Antiga Shipyard
Daybreak | Daybreak
Tal'Darim Altar LE | Tal'Darim Altar LE
Sungsu Crossing | Sungsu Crossing
Sandshorn Mists | Sanshorn Mists
Testbug | Ithaca
Bel'Shir Beach| N/A
So other then the removal of Testbug and Bel'Shir Beach and the addition of Ithaca to the map pool is virtually the same. Now for those of you that are not regular attendees of the Edmonton monthly tournaments maybe this gives you a kick in the pants to get involved in the local scene, or maybe it doesn't. (as voiced above) While the very slight change to the current map pool is a valid statement for some of the posters here it of course does not pertain to everyone I hope to draw into this event.
To everyone else I have a couple things to say;
Sirs, the writing is on the wall. As a follower of tournament decisions over the last year and I dare say a connoisseur of the managers and Admins of eSports times are changing, and for the better. Two great recent examples are the TL map challenge and the IPL map challenge. Evidence of multiple similar top down decisions is merely a precursor to upheaval in the melee map tournament pools. We like to think that the populist idea is always the best one, the idea that more minds make a better product but instead we trend to the lowest common denominator. I am prepared to take some loss to prove my ideas and to show you guys(and gals) a great product with excellent games on superb maps. If you choose to write it off or just spectate I will hold no hard feelings and hope that you can participate in our growth in the future.
CASL is dedicated to fostering to what we see as the Three Pillars of eSports.
First and foremost I look to the players, their skill and determination to achieve seemingly superhuman feats is both a reward and honor;
I then look to the people that drive them to greater heights, the Community, there are many ways to define what a community is in this regard whether it is standing behind your friend and helping him remember creep spread, or asking for an autograph. There are many ways to lend yourself to YOUR community, take ownership because as much as you own the community, is in turn owns and depends on you.
Lastly I reach the mob, or as I coin them perhaps unfairly, the Spectators. This group is likely the most important to reach heights for it is the mob that will draw the money, and we cannot forget money makes the world go round. While the mob is easily the most fickle and also the best critics it is from within the mob that eSports, whether is be SC2 DotA etc., draws its converts. The true fans that are above the rest that move to become greats and in turn drive mob into fervor.
I say all of this to bring some perspective, I don't want to sell this like a religion even though I perhaps used religious terminology. How ever you wish to be involved is up to you and if you decide that this isn't where you want to drop your cash or time that is ultimately up to you. I would also leave you with a warning though, as we look around the world where do we see evidence of grassroots organizations up and coming? perhaps the only example I can think of is the reincarnated ICCUP team, know known as ESVTV. As in building anything it takes a lot of scaffolding to reach the ceiling, Michelangelo's marvelous paintings weren't achieved from ground level; if I can be a part of the growth of an organization I believe in no matter how small I shall use my stature to. It is MY privilege and honor.
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k I dont have the time to actually read the entire thread, but i've talked to a couple people and spent around 8 or so hours playing on the big three maps, ithica , sanshorn, and sungsu. Ive played more on sanshorn and sungsu because they were in the last tournament (a point some of you fail to realize that there is only 1 new map in this pool)
This very much is my opinion and coming from my very privileged spot I hope it adds anew spin to the discussion!
1. The ESV/ICCUP maps are bad. Please read on. If anyone quotes me saying that without the rest i will be very frustrated as that is not my point. This is my point. So is every other map I've played on in sc2. In my opinion a good map allows the players to make choices. The ladder maps all promote very 1 dimensional play styles, with any strange maps slowly getting weeded out of the pool. Take lost temple/shattered temple (note why they named it shattered was because they shattered any chance of innovation on it). I am here to argue that map imbalances promote game diversity. Having the option to cliff drop not only limited my opponent but have a greater variation of styles to be played on this map. Not only this but having islands! Islands could be argued to favor terrans because of the mobility of our buildings but i would argue it allows for greater variation in how we expand and defend those expands. If i play a sky terran style why would i expand to my nat if i can expand to an island and defend it with my fleet of viking banshee battlecruiser!
My point is not to argue specifics but to say we need artists who are innovating in the creation of maps
A BW example, Python TvP. Python is like a simpler version of lost temple with a much more open middle and a very hard to secure third base for terran. I sucked hard at this map because taking a third seems like a dream i could never accomplish, and even if there was a chance to take one my army was so spread out he would just pick a point and walk me. I would say i would win a quarter of my games but i look at the TLPD and see terrans had a 55% win rate. Back then I would have complained about imbalance because i was a noob not understanding the world of maps. But bigger terrans then i started to innovate. I remember watching a game (players i cannot remember) but i watched the terran play a very vulture heavy style. To me i had never seen it before,(relying on large numbers of tanks with heavy upgrades) the mobility and area control with mines the huge amount of vultures gave seemed spectacularly good! See rather then give up they decided to tweak how he played to fit the map. It seems people dont like this idea. See cause people are rather un-innovative and boring and we like to play the way we wanna, instead of seeing the beauty of the map makers design and making fine adjustments to our play to account for the map! I just want to finish with saying I 100% believe the lost temple in starcraft 2 was not imbalanced tvz and will be happy to explain myself via pm if anyone wishes to debate the details.
moving on (if anyone want to specifically debate a finer point a PM will be answered. If you post in the thread i will probably not respond cause i dont read threads very often!
2. We need better maps. If you played on the ladder the last season there were a couple maps introduced to the map pool that were the most boring peace of crap maps Ive ever played on. No interesting chokes, no interesting watch tower placement, no cliffs...the list goes on. Waiting is not the solution. The community is! Guys like prodig are amazing at making maps. If you dont think so try making one that looks at all good and you will realize prodig is a freaken magician. The community (especially the local community) should rally around these individuals with amazing talent and help them move forward. This involves playing the maps at a competitive level!. It is a necessary "evil" but in my own personal experience (playing all the new maps for hours of actual practice) it is incredibly fun and they promote new ways and new styles! It is incredibly silly (and im saddened to see) that my friends and teammates are pointing out all the negatives when there are so many positive things about these new maps. Sure glitches need to be addressed and fixed and because of prodig's willingness to be apart of those fixes they are fixed as soon as possible! But embracing the new styles the maps bring and solving the maps like a new problem. Im calling out a friend and i know he wont mind cause hes the bomb, but i was playing with okSunshine a teammate and discovered a nice little seige timing while i expanded on sungsu that caught him off guard and skyrocketed me into a great position in which i later won with just some good 4th base denying. He immediately was frustrated and thought it was stupid and let the forum world know! Its so silly to blame a loss on a imbalance! I do it, we all do it but it really is silly. He didn't lose the game cause i could seige in position to hit his mining drones, he lost cause i played better then him! Which included playing specifically for that map. At that point i would have hoped him to immediately watch the replay and realize if he would make x amount of lings at this point...or maybe open roach that this attack gets LOLed all over and suddenly he is in a great spot. Instead he took the EASY way out and complained on a forum! Not only did he kinda crap all over the hard work i had been putting in to develop the build and allow it to transition nicely into a midgame but also the map designer who allows for those short rush distances. And maybe it wasnt the map makers intention to allow the tanks to hit the minerals line but it should be addressed as a problem for the players to solve! My tank timing created the problem not the map imbalance, sure maybe the map allowed for the push to be stronger but that something sunshine will need to account for future games that we play!
3.Your not as smart as you think you are....and neither am I but as a competitive player i always face palm when players talk about balance. If you want to be the best player you need to win where people say you cant! You need to break the common trends. Savior is my easy example for this. He became the best zerg in BW at a time where zergs were doing the worst statistically! He took maps with obvious design flaws and while every other zerg was getting crushed he would continue to innovate and develop his play style to win. Complaining about map balance or race imbalance is just a cop out for hard work, innovation and dedication to win! Winning takes time and if you would spend the time to learn these maps and develop strategies not only would the games be more exciting but then mapmakers like prodig can continue to hone their skills through your feedback.
4. I love anyone who contributes anything to make starcraft a better game! I dont care if what you do is bad, if you keep it up and people help along the way one day it will be freaken awesome and we can grow this community together!
So if your a mapmaker, commentator or player keep doing what your doing to the best you can! And i would hope that everyone around you would be overwhelmingly positive because their only helping us move in the right direction!
[edit] of course mitch post a block of text right before me so no one will ever read mine...facepalm
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So, as far as I can discern:
A number of players are unhappy with the map pool and don't want to spend 45 dollars to risk losing an important match because they were unaware of a certain characteristic of a new map,
and the people organizing the event say
I am prepared to take some loss to prove my ideas and to show you guys(and gals) a great product with excellent games on superb maps. If you choose to write it off or just spectate I will hold no hard feelings and hope that you can participate in our growth in the future
or, if I may be so bold as to paraphrase, "I hear your concerns but i'm going to do it my way anyway in hopes of proving you wrong in the long run".
I think this kind of puts the map discussion to rest. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
What concerns me, however, is the following: If we aren't happy with the map pool and our voice on these forums is acknowledged but ignored, what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to boycott the events until we get the maps we want? Or are we supposed to make our own events? I am posing somewhat of a philosophical question here, I am not advocating any form of boycott. Put on our shoes, assume you absolutely hate the map pool. What are you supposed to do now? Do you go to the tournament and give them your money anyway? That will just encourage them to continue what they are doing.
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On November 09 2011 15:00 Gofarman wrote:
I have several things to say, and now that the discussion has had a chance to cool down I will say my part.
Firstly I want to say that for many of you that have posted in this thread I am quite surprised at this response. Many of the posters here are consistent attendees of the local tournaments and played on nearly the EXACT SAME map pool 3 weeks ago with no serious complaints to myself or the Shiro about this issue.
Lets look at the map pools side by side;
October | November
Dual Sight | Dual Sight
Antiga Shipyard | Antiga Shipyard
Daybreak | Daybreak
Tal'Darim Altar LE | Tal'Darim Altar LE
Sungsu Crossing | Sungsu Crossing
Sandshorn Mists | Sanshorn Mists
Testbug | Ithaca
Bel'Shir Beach| N/A
So other then the removal of Testbug and Bel'Shir Beach and the addition of Ithaca to the map pool is virtually the same. Now for those of you that are not regular attendees of the Edmonton monthly tournaments maybe this gives you a kick in the pants to get involved in the local scene, or maybe it doesn't. (as voiced above) While the very slight change to the current map pool is a valid statement for some of the posters here it of course does not pertain to everyone I hope to draw into this event.
To everyone else I have a couple things to say;
Sirs, the writing is on the wall. As a follower of tournament decisions over the last year and I dare say a connoisseur of the managers and Admins of eSports times are changing, and for the better. Two great recent examples are the TL map challenge and the IPL map challenge. Evidence of multiple similar top down decisions is merely a precursor to upheaval in the melee map tournament pools. We like to think that the populist idea is always the best one, the idea that more minds make a better product but instead we trend to the lowest common denominator. I am prepared to take some loss to prove my ideas and to show you guys(and gals) a great product with excellent games on superb maps. If you choose to write it off or just spectate I will hold no hard feelings and hope that you can participate in our growth in the future.
CASL is dedicated to fostering to what we see as the Three Pillars of eSports.
First and foremost I look to the players, their skill and determination to achieve seemingly superhuman feats is both a reward and honor;
I then look to the people that drive them to greater heights, the Community, there are many ways to define what a community is in this regard whether it is standing behind your friend and helping him remember creep spread, or asking for an autograph. There are many ways to lend yourself to YOUR community, take ownership because as much as you own the community, is in turn owns and depends on you.
Lastly I reach the mob, or as I coin them perhaps unfairly, the Spectators. This group is likely the most important to reach heights for it is the mob that will draw the money, and we cannot forget money makes the world go round. While the mob is easily the most fickle and also the best critics it is from within the mob that eSports, whether is be SC2 DotA etc., draws its converts. The true fans that are above the rest that move to become greats and in turn drive mob into fervor.
I say all of this to bring some perspective, I don't want to sell this like a religion even though I perhaps used religious terminology. How ever you wish to be involved is up to you and if you decide that this isn't where you want to drop your cash or time that is ultimately up to you. I would also leave you with a warning though, as we look around the world where do we see evidence of grassroots organizations up and coming? perhaps the only example I can think of is the reincarnated ICCUP team, know known as ESVTV. As in building anything it takes a lot of scaffolding to reach the ceiling, Michelangelo's marvelous paintings weren't achieved from ground level; if I can be a part of the growth of an organization I believe in no matter how small I shall use my stature to. It is MY privilege and honor.
Nobody complained 3 weeks ago because that was a small tournament in comparison to this $1500 tournament, and because we thought it was sort of a one time deal that would not turn into a problem. We tried it out, and we've given you feedback, which you can choose to heed or ignore. The community is basically straight up telling you in a public venue what they want; i mean, you've got five pages of flame to deal with. But hey, that's totally your call.
And yes, indeed, this gap in views is a major problem.
Whether these maps are good or bad is beyond the point, as pointed out by Archaic. The problem is that these maps are a bit of a *middle finger* to a lot of the players, because these are being completely imposed on us for what feels like no reason. We have NOTHING to go on besides the "Korean Weekly", which is something i've never had the time nor the inclination to watch. These maps are NOT time tested; we are continually finding bugs and imbalances in the maps. How crappy would it be if someone won the tournament because he abused that water behind the third on Ithaca that we found? And the only reason it worked was because NOBODY else knew about it? That doesn't sound like it would be a "quality product" to me.
In stark contrast, we have map pools that we know and love used by GSL's, MLG's, IPL's, NASL's; not to mention countless replays of your favorite players that you have access to basically anywhere. Good luck finding replays of any notable players on Sanshorn Mists. I totally understand that you have high aspirations for CASL, but I think that if you're going to try and drastically change the formula that these guys have put together, you've got a very, very high climb ahead of you.
The decision to use these maps feels really pointless and arbitrary because the "Pillars of eSports" have been established already. There is no need for you guys to try and reinvent this; it should be complemented and embraced, not given the "Fuck you" treatment in favor of these maps. We already have established map pools, and somebody's opinion (or personal bias) on whether or not this tried and true map pool is shitty should not matter and dictate the entire thing for everyone else.
On November 09 2011 15:18 SiguR wrote:
What concerns me, however, is the following: If we aren't happy with the map pool and our voice on these forums is acknowledged but ignored, what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to boycott the events until we get the maps we want? Or are we supposed to make our own events? I am posing somewhat of a philosophical question here, I am not advocating any form of boycott. Put on our shoes, assume you absolutely hate the map pool. What are you supposed to do now? Do you go to the tournament and give them your money anyway? That will just encourage them to continue what they are doing.
Quoted for truth.
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I'm actually a bit speechless that in a $1500 tournament people are arguing FOR ladder maps, what?
Everyone's complaining about lack of replays, I'll drop about 100 replays (guesstimate on the #) in this thread tomorrow of really good Koreans playing on these very maps for you guys.
Also anyone that argues that Blizz maps don't have bugs has never opened a Blizz map. The MLG XNC? Has like 3-4 positions that units will (and have in pro games) get stuck on and glitch out. Our map team helped fixed all those errors (and many others, I just was only in the loop on that set of issues). Like being not able to be seiged in your third from the Terran main in Antiga? Yea a map team fixed that. Blizz maps are FULL of bugs, just mapmakers like the ones you are flaming fixed them FOR Blizzard. >.<
This is seriously the first tournament I have seen since beta where the players want ladder maps, absolutely baffling that you want to trust $1500 cash to a bunch of maps not designed for tournament use or competitive play at all JUST IN CASE a Bronze player would have won the whole thing but did not because of the maps (which would not happen).
Odd....
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On November 09 2011 15:04 tQArchaic wrote:
3.Your not as smart as you think you are....and neither am I but as a competitive player i always face palm when players talk about balance. If you want to be the best player you need to win where people say you cant! You need to break the common trends. Savior is my easy example for this. He became the best zerg in BW at a time where zergs were doing the worst statistically! He took maps with obvious design flaws and while every other zerg was getting crushed he would continue to innovate and develop his play style to win. Complaining about map balance or race imbalance is just a cop out for hard work, innovation and dedication to win! Winning takes time and if you would spend the time to learn these maps and develop strategies not only would the games be more exciting but then mapmakers like prodig can continue to hone their skills through your feedback.
[edit] of course mitch post a block of text right before me so no one will ever read mine...facepalm
Play Zerg in July 2010 and tell me there's no such thing as imbalance. Some of these maps are good, others are completely trash. If there's a map that forces me to kill my opponent before 14:00 or else I lose, I wouldn't call that imbalance -- I would call it terrible design.
Edit: On top of that, I'm not spending $40 to have some terrain abused and knock me out much earlier than I should be. I place high every tournament I attend, but if somebody wants to abuse the "rocks in the water" at my 3rd in Ithaca then that might allow a weaker player to abuse horrible map design and take a game off me that they wouldn't normally be able to.
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On November 09 2011 15:18 SiguR wrote:
What concerns me, however, is the following: If we aren't happy with the map pool and our voice on these forums is acknowledged but ignored, what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to boycott the events until we get the maps we want? Or are we supposed to make our own events? I am posing somewhat of a philosophical question here, I am not advocating any form of boycott. Put on our shoes, assume you absolutely hate the map pool. What are you supposed to do now? Do you go to the tournament and give them your money anyway? That will just encourage them to continue what they are doing.
My better judgement is telling me I should be sleeping but I will give your last paragraph some response, maybe not a well thought out one.
My gut says to me this, if you truely believe that this tournament will be ruined because of the introduction of a map and the use of some newer maps (remember you have a veto) please continue to voice your opinion and don't come. I truly believe that some capitalist ideals are good, and the boycott is something I think people should use if they believe in what they are doing. With that said I would rather you came to the tournament played and sent me a PM with your experience, good or bad. All of this chat is out of context because none of use really know what the context is, as much as running this tournament will teach me about what you guys want I think it will also teach you about what you want.
I might be wrong, but you have heard my thoughts on it.
Mitchell 'Gofarman' MacPherson
If you want to more fully express your opinion on it I am on Skype every evening (nearly) working on this or something related to SC2 and can also be reached by PM.
skype- mitch.macp
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On November 09 2011 16:03 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 15:04 tQArchaic wrote:
3.Your not as smart as you think you are....and neither am I but as a competitive player i always face palm when players talk about balance. If you want to be the best player you need to win where people say you cant! You need to break the common trends. Savior is my easy example for this. He became the best zerg in BW at a time where zergs were doing the worst statistically! He took maps with obvious design flaws and while every other zerg was getting crushed he would continue to innovate and develop his play style to win. Complaining about map balance or race imbalance is just a cop out for hard work, innovation and dedication to win! Winning takes time and if you would spend the time to learn these maps and develop strategies not only would the games be more exciting but then mapmakers like prodig can continue to hone their skills through your feedback.
[edit] of course mitch post a block of text right before me so no one will ever read mine...facepalm
Play Zerg in July 2010 and tell me there's no such thing as imbalance. Some of these maps are good, others are completely trash. If there's a map that forces me to kill my opponent before 14:00 or else I lose, I wouldn't call that imbalance -- I would call it terrible design. Edit: On top of that, I'm not spending $40 to have some terrain abused and knock me out much earlier than I should be. I place high every tournament I attend, but if somebody wants to abuse the "rocks in the water" at my 3rd in Ithaca then that might allow a weaker player to abuse horrible map design and take a game off me that they wouldn't normally be able to.
Dude that will be fixed within 24 hours like every single other bug every one of our maps have had ever..........
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[/QUOTE]
Play Zerg in July 2010 and tell me there's no such thing as imbalance. Some of these maps are good, others are completely trash. If there's a map that forces me to kill my opponent before 14:00 or else I lose, I wouldn't call that imbalance -- I would call it terrible design.
Edit: On top of that, I'm not spending $40 to have some terrain abused and knock me out much earlier than I should be. I place high every tournament I attend, but if somebody wants to abuse the "rocks in the water" at my 3rd in Ithaca then that might allow a weaker player to abuse horrible map design and take a game off me that they wouldn't normally be able to.
[/QUOTE]
Its like you say that and i acknowledge that the consensus was there was imbalance and yet nestea and fruitdealer both rose above the quoted imbalance to win. The more skilled player will win. If you know theres a spot that abusable expand somewhere else like into a main for a easy third, its like simple fixes from a competitors standpoint so the reality is solve the problem
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On November 09 2011 15:18 SiguR wrote:So, as far as I can discern: A number of players are unhappy with the map pool and don't want to spend 45 dollars to risk losing an important match because they were unaware of a certain characteristic of a new map, and the people organizing the event say Show nested quote +I am prepared to take some loss to prove my ideas and to show you guys(and gals) a great product with excellent games on superb maps. If you choose to write it off or just spectate I will hold no hard feelings and hope that you can participate in our growth in the future or, if I may be so bold as to paraphrase, "I hear your concerns but i'm going to do it my way anyway in hopes of proving you wrong in the long run". I think this kind of puts the map discussion to rest. We'll just have to see how it plays out. What concerns me, however, is the following: If we aren't happy with the map pool and our voice on these forums is acknowledged but ignored, what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to boycott the events until we get the maps we want? Or are we supposed to make our own events? I am posing somewhat of a philosophical question here, I am not advocating any form of boycott. Put on our shoes, assume you absolutely hate the map pool. What are you supposed to do now? Do you go to the tournament and give them your money anyway? That will just encourage them to continue what they are doing.
I'll have to quote this again, for truth. I'm not going to support a tournament with my money if the tournament basically gives a big "fuck you" to players and their feedback. I'll continue to practice on these maps anyways, but if I am not satisfied with them by the time the tournament rolls around, I'll probably sit this one out.
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There's too much drama in this thread for me to read but I'll just put in my 2 cents without sounding like a total moron. I think it's pretty sad to see the state of affairs the general SC2 scene is in as opposed to broodwar. Back in broodwar new maps were loved and cherished and people couldn't wait to try them out and practice on them. But sadly in sc2, that is not the case. For the majority of players we're all just stuck on the blizzard maps, which for the most part are quite bad, because of this I thought people would love learning and trying out new maps, but it appears I was wrong. It's sad to see a lot of the new people in the scene now because of starcraft 2 that are too used to the maps blizzard puts out to try anything new, which for the most part has turned a lot of people into 1 dimensional 1 trick ponies. A good player can learn and adapt to new maps regardless of how much time they have, even a couple hours a night is enough for sc2. Yes I understand people are upset because the map pool was "forced" on us (silly word to use imo) yes I also understand it's a 1500 dollar tournament, but we have to break out of this repetition of using the same maps for every single tournament, because in the long run it'll make us all better as starcraft players being able to adapt to new things rather than refusing to change from the old.
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On November 09 2011 15:59 Diamond wrote:
I'm actually a bit speechless that in a $1500 tournament people are arguing FOR ladder maps, what?
Everyone's complaining about lack of replays, I'll drop about 100 replays (guesstimate on the #) in this thread tomorrow of really good Koreans playing on these very maps for you guys.
Also anyone that argues that Blizz maps don't have bugs has never opened a Blizz map. The MLG XNC? Has like 3-4 positions that units will (and have in pro games) get stuck on and glitch out. Our map team helped fixed all those errors (and many others, I just was only in the loop on that set of issues). Like being not able to be seiged in your third from the Terran main in Antiga? Yea a map team fixed that. Blizz maps are FULL of bugs, just mapmakers like the ones you are flaming fixed them FOR Blizzard. >.<
This is seriously the first tournament I have seen since beta where the players want ladder maps, absolutely baffling that you want to trust $1500 cash to a bunch of maps not designed for tournament use or competitive play at all JUST IN CASE a Bronze player would have won the whole thing but did not because of the maps (which would not happen).
Odd....
Aren't you from Michigan?
What i could basically glean from this is that it's okay for ESV maps to have bugs because blizzard maps have bugs too? Given the choice of two buggy maps, one of which i play every day, and the other i've never seen before, i'll play the one i know. I apologize, because i'm not quite sure how i should address your confusion to the situation.
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this is actually silly, a tournament like fragapalooza that seeds you based on the time it takes you to win deserves a thread like this.
CASL guaranteed 1500$ for a tourny, spreads the prize pool out so top 16 get their money back and it just goes up, and they looked around and realized that tournament maps have stagnated and partnered with esv to bring us the best maps that north america can offer and this thread sounds like a bunch of babies. Constructive criticism is awesome...people said that they want ladder maps, CASL explained their reasons why they want new maps and then said people went crazy!
The new maps are awesome cirno ur awesome....sunshine shape up man (haha had to poke you again!)
pretty soon im going to have to pull a morrow and just to prove you all silly...
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On November 09 2011 16:09 tQArchaic wrote:Show nested quote +Play Zerg in July 2010 and tell me there's no such thing as imbalance. Some of these maps are good, others are completely trash. If there's a map that forces me to kill my opponent before 14:00 or else I lose, I wouldn't call that imbalance -- I would call it terrible design.
Edit: On top of that, I'm not spending $40 to have some terrain abused and knock me out much earlier than I should be. I place high every tournament I attend, but if somebody wants to abuse the "rocks in the water" at my 3rd in Ithaca then that might allow a weaker player to abuse horrible map design and take a game off me that they wouldn't normally be able to. Its like you say that and i acknowledge that the consensus was there was imbalance and yet nestea and fruitdealer both rose above the quoted imbalance to win. The more skilled player will win. If you know theres a spot that abusable expand somewhere else like into a main for a easy third, its like simple fixes from a competitors standpoint so the reality is solve the problem
Fruitdealer won his ZvTs with bugged ultralisks that would kill every SCV repairing a PF or would splash every thor in a group. There was also a significant patch immediately before the finals that nerfed: BCs, Reapers, Tanks, Bunkers. When Nestea won, roach range had already been increased, reapers nerfed out of the game, medivacs nerfed, Barracks nerf, VR nerf, on top of the nerfs seen during the Fruitdealer saga.
I'd say those are pretty significant nerfs... If you want to see what life was like before that, go watch MorroW vs IdrA finals from IEM Cologne.
On November 09 2011 16:13 Cirno wrote:
There's too much drama in this thread for me to read but I'll just put in my 2 cents without sounding like a total moron. I think it's pretty sad to see the state of affairs the general SC2 scene is in as opposed to broodwar. Back in broodwar new maps were loved and cherished and people couldn't wait to try them out and practice on them. But sadly in sc2, that is not the case. For the majority of players we're all just stuck on the blizzard maps, which for the most part are quite bad, because of this I thought people would love learning and trying out new maps, but it appears I was wrong. It's sad to see a lot of the new people in the scene now because of starcraft 2 that are too used to the maps blizzard puts out to try anything new, which for the most part has turned a lot of people into 1 dimensional 1 trick ponies. A good player can learn and adapt to new maps regardless of how much time they have, even a couple hours a night is enough for sc2. Yes I understand people are upset because the map pool was "forced" on us (silly word to use imo) yes I also understand it's a 1500 dollar tournament, but we have to break out of this repetition of using the same maps for every single tournament, because in the long run it'll make us all better as starcraft players being able to adapt to new things rather than refusing to change from the old.
Well since I've played BW dating back to the Gamei days -- I even remember when NrG was formed. I think I have seen enough to form an opinion. Most of the maps that were played were made by KeSPA map makers, extensively tested, and tried out in pro leagues. Gaema Gowon, Nostalgia, Luna, etc. weren't community maps, they were KeSPA maps.
This may be a "$1500 tournament" but this $1500 is coming out of OUR pockets. It's not like some company is putting down $1500 as a sponsorship. If there isn't enough return on the $1500, these tournaments will likely not continue and will probably return to the $20 buy in, 50% into the prize pool type of thing we've had since last year.
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rofl u just crapped on some of the best players in the world. I think I would think its the players that won the games not the developers...but if you really want to blame the developers for a races troubles then have the easy way out! People think very strange things
**edit and of course i watched morrow and idra and i watched idra respond terribly to reapers...i still think reapers were fine as they were its just zerg took time to learn to defend just like it took alot of time to develop a build so different from the norm as the 5 rax reaper was! It was morrow brilliance that won the series not the games imbalance
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On November 09 2011 16:14 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 15:59 Diamond wrote:
I'm actually a bit speechless that in a $1500 tournament people are arguing FOR ladder maps, what?
Everyone's complaining about lack of replays, I'll drop about 100 replays (guesstimate on the #) in this thread tomorrow of really good Koreans playing on these very maps for you guys.
Also anyone that argues that Blizz maps don't have bugs has never opened a Blizz map. The MLG XNC? Has like 3-4 positions that units will (and have in pro games) get stuck on and glitch out. Our map team helped fixed all those errors (and many others, I just was only in the loop on that set of issues). Like being not able to be seiged in your third from the Terran main in Antiga? Yea a map team fixed that. Blizz maps are FULL of bugs, just mapmakers like the ones you are flaming fixed them FOR Blizzard. >.<
This is seriously the first tournament I have seen since beta where the players want ladder maps, absolutely baffling that you want to trust $1500 cash to a bunch of maps not designed for tournament use or competitive play at all JUST IN CASE a Bronze player would have won the whole thing but did not because of the maps (which would not happen).
Odd.... Aren't you from Michigan? What i could basically glean from this is that it's okay for ESV maps to have bugs because blizzard maps have bugs too? Given the choice of two buggy maps, one of which i play every day, and the other i've never seen before, i'll play the one i know. I apologize, because i'm not quite sure how i should address your confusion to the situation. Oh, you must be on the ESV team. Go figure.
Yes I am from Michigan. What does that have to do with anything?
No we prefer our maps to be bug free. Our average bug discovery to fix time is something like 4 hours currently? This Ithaca one might take like a whole idk 24.
Blizzard maps never get fixed. Antiga (Blizz) will allow you to seige the third from the main until it rotates out.
In over 1000 documented professional games, not once has a bug made any impact on a game on our maps. How's that?
You guys are acting like we are amateurs and it's frankly insulting. The ESV map team is the first and one of the very very top premiere map teams in the world, stop acting like we just throw shit together. Our maps are designed hand in hand with the very best Korean players in the world, which no other map makers including Blizzard can claim.
You are asking the tournament organizer to put $1500 soley on maps that the very makers of the maps have said should NOT be played in tournaments, and in no way are designed for it.
Also I will point out Sanshorn Mist AE is also used in all ESL EU events, the absolute premiere E-Sports organization in Europe, as many of our maps have been. It's again insulting to insist they are not used.
Frankly you are being unfair because you are saying people should not have to practice new things to win a tourney. That's insane. If you want to win $1500 tournaments you better be expected to practice. Koreans will practice these maps for $200 a week, you are too good to practice them for $1500 in a weekend? That's just being lazy and spoiled.
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It's hilarious that people are making this big of a fuss over 3 maps. If all the people crying are the majority and not just a really obnoxious minority, chances are you wont have to play the map to begin with. Well unless you run into someone that put in the effort to win (who probably would have beat you to begin with).
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Koreans will practice these maps for $200 a week, you are too good to practice them for $1500 in a weekend? That's just being lazy and spoiled.
I couldn't fucking agree more. In other news, Ithaca fix getting posted in the next 30min
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I guess I'll just keep my criticism to myself next time; my intention was for it to be constructive, hopefully that's how it was perceived. I feel I've made some valid points, but whatever. It's understandable that you'd defend your maps. I'm going regardless.
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I love our little community but I dunno what's causing all this in this thread. I'm going to have to agree with Diamond as well.
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well i think you were the least of the flamers ander haha you didnt even threaten to not go!
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On November 09 2011 16:21 tQArchaic wrote:
rofl u just crapped on some of the best players in the world. I think I would think its the players that won the games not the developers...but if you really want to blame the developers for a races troubles then have the easy way out! People think very strange things
**edit and of course i watched morrow and idra and i watched idra respond terribly to reapers...i still think reapers were fine as they were its just zerg took time to learn to defend just like it took alot of time to develop a build so different from the norm as the 5 rax reaper was! It was morrow brilliance that won the series not the games imbalance
Fruitdealer isn't even code A right now. Hell, my Terran practice partner absolutely shat on ST_Rainbow the other day. Does that mean my friend deserves to win the GSL? The Nestea championship win was after everything was patched. I didn't crap on him, I'm just saying his win came AFTER the patches to fix the supposedly non-existent "imbalance."
Of course, you were Terran during that time. Terran has never had to deal with issues like those, its historical win rate has never dropped below 50%.
http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png
Of course, we all know Terran players are just better and smarter than the rest.
On November 09 2011 16:24 Diamond wrote:
Frankly you are being unfair because you are saying people should not have to practice new things to win a tourney. That's insane. If you want to win $1500 tournaments you better be expected to practice. Koreans will practice these maps for $200 a week, you are too good to practice them for $1500 in a weekend? That's just being lazy and spoiled.
It's $360, not $1500. Read the first post instead of just blindly defending the maps.
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On November 09 2011 16:33 chadissilent wrote:
It's $360, not $1500. Read the first post instead of just blindly defending the maps.
The prize pool is $1500, as per the OP.
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"How NrG was looked at by the rest of the players"
what's that supposed to mean?
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comparing where a player is today and where they were when they were at the top of their game hold very little merit in my eyes...players change, skill level decreases rapidly.
as far as terrans being smarter and better i think theres just alot more terrans that play at a top level in korea then the other races, and tvt developed so quickly that it found a stable metagame that involved solid play! Thats why the winrate is higher in my eyes, more players of the race means matchups are developed faster then other races in general...more minds....not necessarily smarter
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On November 09 2011 16:24 Diamond wrote:
In over 1000 documented professional games, not once has a bug made any impact on a game on our maps. How's that?
This is also incorrect. I was watching a ZvT on one of the maps (can't remember which one atm, it had a free in-base expansion and then one a little further out of your base. The Zerg player kept having his units glitch out at the bottom of the ramps in any engagement and was taking substantially more losses than he should have.
On November 09 2011 16:36 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 16:33 chadissilent wrote:
It's $360, not $1500. Read the first post instead of just blindly defending the maps. The prize pool is $1500, as per the OP.
I didn't know a single player practices to win the entire prize pool.
On November 09 2011 16:38 Cirno wrote:
"How NrG was looked at by the rest of the players"
what's that supposed to mean?
Oh nothing, I probably shouldn't have put that down. NrG was looked at as just another new team during that era, nothing more or less than that. I'll actually edit that out since it's irrelevant.
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my bad, I thought you were just taking a pot shot at NrG. To be fair I wasn't on NrG in broodwar, I was basically teamless my entire broodwar career from WGT (one of the first online ladders aside from blizzard's broodwar one) to neo game-i to pgtour to iccup.
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Ithaca fix posted here
If you find anymore issues like this, post them in that thread and they'll get fixed ASAP. The more documentation you can provide, the better. If you're just going to scream "ur map is bad fuck u" instead of help me try to make it as best as it can be well... you're the ones playing it in the tournament. I'll fix whatever bugs you find but
Also, ESV Sungsu Crossing AE was published properly on NA earlier today. iCCup Sungsu Crossing AE has been removed as it's out of date.
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On November 09 2011 16:45 chadissilent wrote:
This is also incorrect. I was watching a ZvT on one of the maps (can't remember which one atm, it had a free in-base expansion and then one a little further out of your base. The Zerg player kept having his units glitch out at the bottom of the ramps in any engagement and was taking substantially more losses than he should have.
lol ok 1 game, you got me. 1 out of 1000 I can live with. I actually would love to see this VOD so we can get it fixed. Can you perhaps link it or give me some more info on the game other then TvZ?
I didn't know a single player practices to win the entire prize pool.
There is $1500 in prizes. Is the MLG National Championships a $120,000 or $50,000 tournament? Even if your logic holds then Koreans practice them for $100 a week. Either way I cannot see how you expect a tournament to cater large prize pools while setting up a rule set/map pool that caters to the players that do not practice.
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On November 09 2011 16:30 ander wrote:
I guess I'll just keep my criticism to myself next time; my intention was for it to be constructive, hopefully that's how it was perceived. I feel I've made some valid points, but whatever. It's understandable that you'd defend your maps. I'm going regardless.
Quoted cause I feel the exact same way...
It's unfortunate that this issue is snowballing like this, really, couldn't a middle ground be reached? Implement 1 new map, give us more GSL/MLG?
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this is probably the worst thread on TL atm lol
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it's not anyone's fault I just think we're all kinda caught up in the moment.
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On November 09 2011 17:32 Cirno wrote:
this is probably the worst thread on TL atm lol
Agreed. And I will step away to try and let the thread cool off. I think this tournament will be awesome and despite the new maps I think there will probably still be many high quality games, I know I will watch.
Just give the maps a chance guys, they aren't as bad as you are making them out to be.
GL HF  !
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On November 09 2011 17:37 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:32 Cirno wrote:
this is probably the worst thread on TL atm lol Agreed. And I will step away to try and let the thread cool off. I think this tournament will be awesome and despite the new maps I think there will probably still be many high quality games, I know I will watch. Just give the maps a chance guys, they aren't as bad as you are making them out to be. GL HF !
I love you diamond <3
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Stoped reading after the first few pages due to the tone of the thread but this is what i think:
If it was all in one day I know me and a few other Calgarians who would make the trip even if i got eliminated in the first round. But I really cannot take 2 days off work and spend 100ish$ for gas for 2 trips or a Hotel room, the same goes for them.
Project X was able to do their huge 64 man tourney last year in one day (started around 11 am, finished around midnight).
Wouldnt making it a one day event also reduce the costs of renting the Lan centre and increase the prizepool? I see a win-win situation in that to be honest :D, not my tournament so I cannot say anything however.
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On November 09 2011 17:04 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 16:45 chadissilent wrote:
This is also incorrect. I was watching a ZvT on one of the maps (can't remember which one atm, it had a free in-base expansion and then one a little further out of your base. The Zerg player kept having his units glitch out at the bottom of the ramps in any engagement and was taking substantially more losses than he should have. lol ok 1 game, you got me. 1 out of 1000 I can live with. I actually would love to see this VOD so we can get it fixed. Can you perhaps link it or give me some more info on the game other then TvZ?
When you post the replay pack, I'll root through it to see if I can find it. I seem to remember ST_Monster being the Z player? The T opened up CC first into 4-6 rax into another expansion, it was a really long game that the Z ended up winning but it was extremely back and forth. I wish I could provide more info but this was probably a week ago and a lot has happened since then.
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On November 09 2011 16:59 prodiG wrote:Ithaca fix posted hereIf you find anymore issues like this, post them in that thread and they'll get fixed ASAP. The more documentation you can provide, the better. If you're just going to scream "ur map is bad fuck u" instead of help me try to make it as best as it can be well... you're the ones playing it in the tournament. I'll fix whatever bugs you find but
My main issue with Ithaca is that it's a huge map without any huge space. There's no room to scoot around mains so drop/muta play is extremely limited, the 3 bases can be covered extremely quickly by blink stalkers/colossi, basically giving the P a quick 3 base to turtle on. There are so many doodads on the map that there are no good areas to engage to get a proper concave/flank, as forcefields can quickly block off these alternate tiny paths. It's basically the exact opposite of dual sight in that regards.
You can take that as constructive criticism or you can take it as "ur map is bad fuck u" -- I'm not the one designing the maps, just the one playing in the tournament.
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give me steppes or give me death
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Seriously quit the whining you guys. Cya there.
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Okay so, I am pretty sure my previous posts have really set off a powder keg here which was not totally my intention. The posts I have made have been in a bit of cold blood, and I do apologize to Mitch, the ESV team, the thread and for some reason Kevin Bacon. I truthfully didn't see it escalating to the point of personal attacks.. I am forum chobo. Sorry, that one is on me. ProdiG can have one free stab at the event.
I have had my nap, Ithaca has been fixed, so I will try to make this more sensible. I am going for constructive, here. If I miss it entirely, blame... Andro.
I like our map makers. There is never a time I play one of the ICCup maps or ESV maps or anything made by the community (Read: Labyrinth of Wonders) and the first thing I say is "This map is stupid". People are doing cool things with maps. Archaic wants artists, and we have plenty, and so does Korea. The GSL map makers are doing really cool stuff too, and the fact of the matter is those maps are more exposed. Have I ever played on Calm Before the Storm? Nope. Do I know what it is, enough to justify using it in a tourney? Sure. While I do want to encourage map makers (I really REALLY want a Battle Royale style map) do we really need 3 of 7 to be their maps?
Just throwing out ideas: Keep the 3, but add two new GSL maps. Cool, now in a best of 3 you can show all kinds of different play styles! Innovation! "But practicing 5 maps is harder than 3!" You don't have to! Both players give the maps they don't want to play, then, using the remaining pool, veto one map at a time until there is one left, and there is your starting map. Mmmmm, Smells like cinnamon. "But what if loser picks a map that I have never played?!" Earlier in this thread I think ProdiG said something along the lines of "...Bigger tournament > Come to compete..." We all know where to find information on these maps.. Put in the time. Shiny.
Next: To the organizers; I love ya dearly, I understand the points you wanna make, but I think we jumped into the deep end of the pool, and we can't swim. And we are Ferrets (Can ferrets swim?). So few maps that we know, while good in the long run (And I really believe that), is just new and scary. Like my room mates new girlfriend with a face tattoo. It got a lot of us really fired up, we post in the forums, and get told to Deal with it. It doesn't help that we come back later with more animosity and everyone feels cheated. That can't help any one who might not know everyone or their TL ID's, reads through the thread, and is put off because it is an angry and sexually tense soap opera. You don't have to change your ideas, but it is kinda clear that you need to work with us too, to make this better.
The only complaint I have had is about the map pool. Everything else is, truthfully, fantastic. Pay out through top 16? That will give me sweeter dreams than a five-year-old diabetic. Let's not get all Christian Bale up in this.
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On November 09 2011 17:41 dapierow wrote:
Stoped reading after the first few pages due to the tone of the thread but this is what i think:
If it was all in one day I know me and a few other Calgarians who would make the trip even if i got eliminated in the first round. But I really cannot take 2 days off work and spend 100ish$ for gas for 2 trips or a Hotel room, the same goes for them.
Project X was able to do their huge 64 man tourney last year in one day (started around 11 am, finished around midnight).
Wouldnt making it a one day event also reduce the costs of renting the Lan centre and increase the prizepool? I see a win-win situation in that to be honest :D, not my tournament so I cannot say anything however.
Edmonton tourneys are notorious for taking a long time to finish. If they are expecting a larger turnout than usual you would have to split it up. The LAN centre is big enough to run a large tourney in a short timeframe, but its about whether they will use it to capacity or not
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On November 09 2011 17:32 Cirno wrote:
this is probably the worst thread on TL atm lol
This is a great thread. If people wanted a community they got it. There has been a lot of constructive criticism and discussion. People want improvement and are voicing their opinions which is exactly how it should be. At least Edmonton has enough people to do this, for that we should be happy. If only there was this much of a community for wc3 back in the day
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HtHuE.jpg)
relevant
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After reading Sunshine's post, I totally agree. My issue with the map pool is the amount of community maps. Nearly 50% of the maps are community maps and that does pose a problem. If you want to have 3 iCCup maps, then add in a few more GSL/MLG/IPL maps to give the players a few more options. Otherwise, you can trim out some of the iCCup maps but I have a feeling there's no way that is going to happen.
That said, I do like Sanshorn out of the maps. I have experience with it in the CSL and other than the fact that one watchtower covers 2 expansions, I like the map.
Edit: not sure how that image macro is relevant. 2 years is nothing compared to the time that SC/BW/SC2 have been out.
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On November 10 2011 02:58 chadissilent wrote:
After reading Sunshine's post, I totally agree. My issue with the map pool is the amount of community maps. Nearly 50% of the maps are community maps and that does pose a problem. If you want to have 3 iCCup maps, then add in a few more GSL/MLG/IPL maps to give the players a few more options. Otherwise, you can trim out some of the iCCup maps but I have a feeling there's no way that is going to happen.
That said, I do like Sanshorn out of the maps. I have experience with it in the CSL and other than the fact that one watchtower covers 2 expansions, I like the map.
Edit: not sure how that image macro is relevant. 2 years is nothing compared to the time that SC/BW/SC2 have been out.
Did you not see all the posts bashing Ithaca for being able to drop in the water? That's a pathing issue (only related to SC2 since pathing in BW was COMPLETELY different)
+ Show Spoiler +joke explained = not funny anymore. qq
Keep the 3, but add two new GSL maps. Cool, now in a best of 3 you can show all kinds of different play styles! Innovation! "But practicing 5 maps is harder than 3!" You don't have to! Both players give the maps they don't want to play, then, using the remaining pool, veto one map at a time until there is one left, and there is your starting map. Mmmmm, Smells like cinnamon. "But what if loser picks a map that I have never played?!" Earlier in this thread I think ProdiG said something along the lines of "...Bigger tournament > Come to compete..." We all know where to find information on these maps.. Put in the time. Shiny.
I thought about doing something like this when I suggested the map pool but if you look at this thread it's very obvious that the more new maps you introduce -> the more angry some players will get. That and when I suggested this map pool maps like City in the Sky and Calm Before the Storm didn't exist, nor did all of the sick ass new ESV maps like Cloud Kingdom and Daggoth Crater. A BIG part of the reason why I suggested this map pool is because it's tried and true in the Korean Weekly, which is the event that I personally have the most experience and exposure to and therefore understand the reasons why all of these maps work well together in a map pool.
In slightly unrelated news, eat it up haters~ ESV maps one step closer to a ladder map pool near you
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'll still be releasing those replays for you guys, might take a bit longer for our poor replay admin then I thought (day or two) as he's been sent on a mission to hunt thru over 1k replays for the right maps. Sorry for the delay!
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I'm still a bit shocked that so many of you are alright with the way the entry fee is stacked on top of the undisclosed "computer use" fee. Will we have to purchase computer time individually for both days? 60$ for a tournament is pretty darn steep, but if it's 80$ for the whole weekend that's borderline ridiculous. An MLG Providence pass costs 70$ and that is for (arguably) the biggest tournament in the world for 3 days!
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On November 10 2011 03:57 Sceptre wrote:
I'm still a bit shocked that so many of you are alright with the way the entry fee is stacked on top of the undisclosed "computer use" fee. Will we have to purchase computer time individually for both days? 60$ for a tournament is pretty darn steep, but if it's 80$ for the whole weekend that's borderline ridiculous. An MLG Providence pass costs 70$ and that is for (arguably) the biggest tournament in the world for 3 days!
I would assume the computer use fee is included, like it has been for every single tournament we've had to date. If you crack top 16 (I'd assume a turnout of 45-50 players), you only have to be in the top third to get your money back.
On November 10 2011 03:36 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:58 chadissilent wrote:
After reading Sunshine's post, I totally agree. My issue with the map pool is the amount of community maps. Nearly 50% of the maps are community maps and that does pose a problem. If you want to have 3 iCCup maps, then add in a few more GSL/MLG/IPL maps to give the players a few more options. Otherwise, you can trim out some of the iCCup maps but I have a feeling there's no way that is going to happen.
That said, I do like Sanshorn out of the maps. I have experience with it in the CSL and other than the fact that one watchtower covers 2 expansions, I like the map.
Edit: not sure how that image macro is relevant. 2 years is nothing compared to the time that SC/BW/SC2 have been out. Did you not see all the posts bashing Ithaca for being able to drop in the water? That's a pathing issue (only related to SC2 since pathing in BW was COMPLETELY different)
That makes sense, I wasn't aware that droppable terrain was considered a pathing issue.
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On November 10 2011 03:36 prodiG wrote:
I thought about doing something like this when I suggested the map pool but if you look at this thread it's very obvious that the more new maps you introduce -> the more angry some players will get.
Do they have to be new maps then? Let the players have a choice where their series don't have to go through maps they don't know. The worst I can see that going is that no one chooses the community maps and just plays the four or whatever MLG/GSL/Ladder maps, but even I find that unlikely.
Just a thought.
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On November 10 2011 04:19 s[O]rry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:36 prodiG wrote:
I thought about doing something like this when I suggested the map pool but if you look at this thread it's very obvious that the more new maps you introduce -> the more angry some players will get. Do they have to be new maps then? Let the players have a choice where their series don't have to go through maps they don't know. The worst I can see that going is that no one chooses the community maps and just plays the four or whatever MLG/GSL/Ladder maps, but even I find that unlikely. Just a thought.
Add a veto feature? Each player gets to veto 1 map. If you despise a map, that will be your veto every time and you won't have to play it.
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On November 10 2011 04:24 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 04:19 s[O]rry wrote:On November 10 2011 03:36 prodiG wrote:
I thought about doing something like this when I suggested the map pool but if you look at this thread it's very obvious that the more new maps you introduce -> the more angry some players will get. Do they have to be new maps then? Let the players have a choice where their series don't have to go through maps they don't know. The worst I can see that going is that no one chooses the community maps and just plays the four or whatever MLG/GSL/Ladder maps, but even I find that unlikely. Just a thought. Add a veto feature? Each player gets to veto 1 map. If you despise a map, that will be your veto every time and you won't have to play it.
8. The Map for Game 1 of each Match will be selected by CASL and announced prior to the Event.
9. Prior to the start of a Best of 3 Game Match and the Blind Pick of Races, each Player may select one Map, from the list of Maps, that can’t be chosen for Games 2 or 3. The lower seeded Player will be given the opportunity to select a Map first. The higher seeded Player will then be given the opportunity to select a Map.
10. The loser of a Game must select the Map for the next Game.
11. No Map may be played more than once in the same Best of 3 Game Match or Best of 5 Game Match.
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On November 10 2011 04:56 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 04:24 chadissilent wrote:On November 10 2011 04:19 s[O]rry wrote:On November 10 2011 03:36 prodiG wrote:
I thought about doing something like this when I suggested the map pool but if you look at this thread it's very obvious that the more new maps you introduce -> the more angry some players will get. Do they have to be new maps then? Let the players have a choice where their series don't have to go through maps they don't know. The worst I can see that going is that no one chooses the community maps and just plays the four or whatever MLG/GSL/Ladder maps, but even I find that unlikely. Just a thought. Add a veto feature? Each player gets to veto 1 map. If you despise a map, that will be your veto every time and you won't have to play it. Show nested quote +8. The Map for Game 1 of each Match will be selected by CASL and announced prior to the Event.
9. Prior to the start of a Best of 3 Game Match and the Blind Pick of Races, each Player may select one Map, from the list of Maps, that can’t be chosen for Games 2 or 3. The lower seeded Player will be given the opportunity to select a Map first. The higher seeded Player will then be given the opportunity to select a Map.
10. The loser of a Game must select the Map for the next Game.
11. No Map may be played more than once in the same Best of 3 Game Match or Best of 5 Game Match.
The veto doesn't affect the first game though, not like how the GSL veto works.
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So Cool! Is there a fee to just come and watch?
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On November 10 2011 08:14 DrawdE wrote:
So Cool! Is there a fee to just come and watch?
Answer
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Here ya go guys, this is the order of Bo3 starts for Day1.
WR1- GSL Antiga Shipyard
WR2- GSL Daybreak
WR3- Tal'Darim Altar LE
WR4- GSL Dual Sight
LR1- GSL Daybreak
LR2- Tal'Darim Altar LE
LR3- ESV Sungsu Crossing AE
LR4- GSL Dual Sight
LR5- ESV Sanshorn Mist AE
oh and this has also been updated to the OP
+ Show Spoiler [ etc.] +If you guys have some things you would rather try out or have some ideas for the group stages (specifically the first map let me know, in PM preferably
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On November 11 2011 10:35 Gofarman wrote:Here ya go guys, this is the order of Bo3 starts for Day1. WR1- GSL Antiga Shipyard WR2- GSL Daybreak WR3- Tal'Darim Altar LE WR4- GSL Dual Sight LR1- GSL Daybreak LR2- Tal'Darim Altar LE LR3- ESV Sungsu Crossing AE LR4- GSL Dual Sight LR5- ESV Sanshorn Mist AE oh and this has also been updated to the OP + Show Spoiler [ etc.] +If you guys have some things you would rather try out or have some ideas for the group stages (specifically the first map let me know, in PM preferably
I could deal with that.
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Mitch, since its hard to catch up with you and talk ill just leave this message here for you. If you want a projector for the final games so that everyone can watch what is going on for the finals, you can by all means borrow mine, and as always i would love to help you out with the tourney even if it means going to get the staff food to eat.
about the maps, unless it died down. Honestly there are 3 maps that people are having problems with. there is TONS and i mean TONS of time to practice. i work 8 hours a day, come home and could possibly play for 4 hours every night not including weekends. and in the sad state i am right now at playing the game, ( im terribad) i could do really well in this tourney.
the only thing i hear from people is that they dont want to practice for a chance to win decent money, and whats even worse is that even if you only place top 16 you still get your money back from entering, not to mention the tourney practice you get and the awesome experience of coming out and chatting and enjoying the game you so love to play lots of.
so please stop the complaining, constructive feedback is good, like what sorry is doing, he is taking time playing the maps giving valid points and actually discussing it. This is probably the FIRST of many more bigger tourneys to come and Mitch ONLY wants to improve upon where he is going with this.
Mitch and OKGaming are absolutely amazing people that just want to encourage e-sports and community so remember there is a person behind that screen of yours.
Cheers
ps. sorry for beating a dead horse
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On November 15 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:Wow... I am stunned If you haven't read yet this TL news post adaquetly addresses my opinion on the Maps. Maps in the Balance+ Show Spoiler +
This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well:
If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see.
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Maybe nobody going to this tourney is good enough to be above the ladder lol. Every whiner here is admitting that they're a scrub.
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Is there still spots so people can sign up day of the tournament to be in it?
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On November 21 2011 01:27 JSK.Fusik wrote:
Is there still spots so people can sign up day of the tournament to be in it?
Yup, currently we still have a good amount of room for last minute sign-ups but it is first come first serve so preregister if you can. Turning people away would suck.
The preregistration is live at Over Klocked. Sign up and pay early and you win a prize.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Is there any way to pre-register and pay without using Paypal? I closed my paypal account years ago after having the account cracked and large sums of money stolen from my account.
On November 17 2011 10:12 prodiG wrote:This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well: Show nested quote +If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see.
This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well, from that same link:
A different map pool for every major tournament would be detrimental as all but the most dedicated spectators would be lost and the pros would be less than accustomed to the intricacies of each terrain, frustrated with having to practice on a unique set of maps for a single tournament. Rather than having a confusing and disjointed map pool, ideally, major tournaments like MLG and GSL, already working in close collaboration, will create a system for creating and implementing maps that can be adopted by all tournaments. With such a system in place a 'standard' map pool for professional StarCraft 2 could be created and a cycle of replacement accepted.
Still not liking 2 of the 3 ESV maps after extensive hours put into them.
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On November 23 2011 16:27 chadissilent wrote:Is there any way to pre-register and pay without using Paypal? I closed my paypal account years ago after having the account cracked and large sums of money stolen from my account. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:12 prodiG wrote:On November 15 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:Wow... I am stunned If you haven't read yet this TL news post adaquetly addresses my opinion on the Maps. Maps in the Balance+ Show Spoiler + This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well: If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see. This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well, from that same link: Show nested quote +A different map pool for every major tournament would be detrimental as all but the most dedicated spectators would be lost and the pros would be less than accustomed to the intricacies of each terrain, frustrated with having to practice on a unique set of maps for a single tournament. Rather than having a confusing and disjointed map pool, ideally, major tournaments like MLG and GSL, already working in close collaboration, will create a system for creating and implementing maps that can be adopted by all tournaments. With such a system in place a 'standard' map pool for professional StarCraft 2 could be created and a cycle of replacement accepted. Still not liking 2 of the 3 ESV maps after extensive hours put into them.
Saying you don't like them is frankly meaningless to me. Without some kind of explanation that response just falls into "you can't please them all, oh well"
What maps don't you like? Why don't you like them? If you think there is a balance problem, can you back it up with some concrete analysis and/or replays?
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On November 24 2011 06:08 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 16:27 chadissilent wrote:Is there any way to pre-register and pay without using Paypal? I closed my paypal account years ago after having the account cracked and large sums of money stolen from my account. On November 17 2011 10:12 prodiG wrote:On November 15 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:Wow... I am stunned If you haven't read yet this TL news post adaquetly addresses my opinion on the Maps. Maps in the Balance+ Show Spoiler + This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well: If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see. This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well, from that same link: A different map pool for every major tournament would be detrimental as all but the most dedicated spectators would be lost and the pros would be less than accustomed to the intricacies of each terrain, frustrated with having to practice on a unique set of maps for a single tournament. Rather than having a confusing and disjointed map pool, ideally, major tournaments like MLG and GSL, already working in close collaboration, will create a system for creating and implementing maps that can be adopted by all tournaments. With such a system in place a 'standard' map pool for professional StarCraft 2 could be created and a cycle of replacement accepted. Still not liking 2 of the 3 ESV maps after extensive hours put into them. Saying you don't like them is frankly meaningless to me. Without some kind of explanation that response just falls into "you can't please them all, oh well" What maps don't you like? Why don't you like them? If you think there is a balance problem, can you back it up with some concrete analysis and/or replays?
I don't care about the maps. Nothing will change before the tournament and after that I'll never have to play them again. I'll just keep practicing and have some really cheesy builds prepared for the maps in case I have to play them. If you genuinely care about the maps and are not just all "defensive steve" about them, we can talk about them this weekend.
The part I need addressed is the pre-registration part with Paypal. No point paying an extra $5 because I don't feel secure using Paypal.
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On November 24 2011 13:55 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 06:08 prodiG wrote:On November 23 2011 16:27 chadissilent wrote:Is there any way to pre-register and pay without using Paypal? I closed my paypal account years ago after having the account cracked and large sums of money stolen from my account. On November 17 2011 10:12 prodiG wrote:On November 15 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:Wow... I am stunned If you haven't read yet this TL news post adaquetly addresses my opinion on the Maps. Maps in the Balance+ Show Spoiler + This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well: If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see. This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well, from that same link: A different map pool for every major tournament would be detrimental as all but the most dedicated spectators would be lost and the pros would be less than accustomed to the intricacies of each terrain, frustrated with having to practice on a unique set of maps for a single tournament. Rather than having a confusing and disjointed map pool, ideally, major tournaments like MLG and GSL, already working in close collaboration, will create a system for creating and implementing maps that can be adopted by all tournaments. With such a system in place a 'standard' map pool for professional StarCraft 2 could be created and a cycle of replacement accepted. Still not liking 2 of the 3 ESV maps after extensive hours put into them. Saying you don't like them is frankly meaningless to me. Without some kind of explanation that response just falls into "you can't please them all, oh well" What maps don't you like? Why don't you like them? If you think there is a balance problem, can you back it up with some concrete analysis and/or replays? I don't care about the maps. Nothing will change before the tournament and after that I'll never have to play them again. I'll just keep practicing and have some really cheesy builds prepared for the maps in case I have to play them. If you genuinely care about the maps and are not just all "defensive steve" about them, we can talk about them this weekend. The part I need addressed is the pre-registration part with Paypal. No point paying an extra $5 because I don't feel secure using Paypal.
You can preregister at OverKlocked as far as I know
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On November 24 2011 15:07 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 13:55 chadissilent wrote:On November 24 2011 06:08 prodiG wrote:On November 23 2011 16:27 chadissilent wrote:Is there any way to pre-register and pay without using Paypal? I closed my paypal account years ago after having the account cracked and large sums of money stolen from my account. On November 17 2011 10:12 prodiG wrote:On November 15 2011 09:36 Gofarman wrote:Wow... I am stunned If you haven't read yet this TL news post adaquetly addresses my opinion on the Maps. Maps in the Balance+ Show Spoiler + This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well: If you are tired of watching the same build over and over again, or all-ins working every time in such-and-such positions, rather than simply post about the balance of the game, take into consideration the map pool and think of how a different terrain could manipulate the viability of strategies. Blizzard's map pool has been a phenomenal success on ladder. As they boasted at Blizzcon, there is nearly a 50-50 win-loss ratio between races across the board. But as Dustin Browder said in a recent interview with Reddit, “the pros are so much above the ladder that it's ridiculous.” As any StarCraft 2 eSport fan knows, there is not a 50-50 ratio in the professional echelon, and the maps that might be balanced for the general population can be exploited by professionals and limit rather than facilitate their abilities and the games that we want to see. This blurb sums up my thoughts on maps very very well, from that same link: A different map pool for every major tournament would be detrimental as all but the most dedicated spectators would be lost and the pros would be less than accustomed to the intricacies of each terrain, frustrated with having to practice on a unique set of maps for a single tournament. Rather than having a confusing and disjointed map pool, ideally, major tournaments like MLG and GSL, already working in close collaboration, will create a system for creating and implementing maps that can be adopted by all tournaments. With such a system in place a 'standard' map pool for professional StarCraft 2 could be created and a cycle of replacement accepted. Still not liking 2 of the 3 ESV maps after extensive hours put into them. Saying you don't like them is frankly meaningless to me. Without some kind of explanation that response just falls into "you can't please them all, oh well" What maps don't you like? Why don't you like them? If you think there is a balance problem, can you back it up with some concrete analysis and/or replays? I don't care about the maps. Nothing will change before the tournament and after that I'll never have to play them again. I'll just keep practicing and have some really cheesy builds prepared for the maps in case I have to play them. If you genuinely care about the maps and are not just all "defensive steve" about them, we can talk about them this weekend. The part I need addressed is the pre-registration part with Paypal. No point paying an extra $5 because I don't feel secure using Paypal. You can preregister at OverKlocked as far as I know
Hard to do from Calgary.
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Wow this is intense. That's a lot of money
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Where are these replays that Diamond promised us over 2 weeks ago?
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2 days ladies and gentlemen 2 days for the biggest tournament in alberta....wowowowow
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So if we can't pay via paypal, we just have to pay $45 at the door...? sigh that makes me sad.
A question, if not all 64 people participate / register, is the prize pool still the same? Because only 30ish people need to register to create this current prize pool if I'm not mistaken, so I'm just wondering for that
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well if it did, i would want to know right away since it's a 2 day lan and involves a fair bit of planning when coming from further away.
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i'll pass what a silly map pool
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Would have loved to go to just watch, but unfortunately I'm in Calgary this weekend.
Also I have to agree about the map pool. For the biggest tournament in Alberta I would have thought the map pool would have been more in conformity to other current tournaments, but hey always nice to see new maps.
Maybe next tournament Ill come play. GL to all!
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On November 26 2011 13:03 SaroVati wrote:So if we can't pay via paypal, we just have to pay $45 at the door...? sigh that makes me sad. A question, if not all 64 people participate / register, is the prize pool still the same? Because only 30ish people need to register to create this current prize pool if I'm not mistaken, so I'm just wondering for that
You could have pre-registered at OverKlocked in person. (I say could have because the event is tomorrow). I mentioned to Tim that I don't think this was advertised enough and I'll bring it up with Mitch as well
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
On November 24 2011 17:28 chadissilent wrote:
Where are these replays that Diamond promised us over 2 weeks ago?
I'm harassing him about them, he's been busy with a lot of other stuff
edit" Replays here (More recent packs will feature Ithaca, Sandshorn Mist AE and Sungsu Crossing AE
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Game day. Pull up your socks, Kids.
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Good luck people. Will there be online live brackets, usually its so hard to find live results/brackets for these tournaments-thanks
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On November 27 2011 01:43 Kmickelow wrote:
Good luck people. Will there be online live brackets, usually its so hard to find live results/brackets for these tournaments-thanks
They'll be up on challonge asap as far as i know
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Not sure what challonge is... anyone link brackets?
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On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it.
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If an event organizer wants to risk his own cash for a guaranteed payout, it's well within his rights to keep some information private.
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On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it.
Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money?
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Predictions:
#1 - Dime
#2 - tQdrOne (aka tQSelfMannerPool)
#3 - tQarchaic
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On November 27 2011 17:03 Chairman Ray wrote:
Predictions:
#1 - Dime
#2 - tQdrOne (aka tQSelfMannerPool)
#3 - tQarchaic
challenge accepted
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On November 27 2011 17:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it. Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money?
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize your tournament was as grand as MLG, my apologies. As a local organizer myself, I just thought it was important to show the players exactly how their money was being spent.
But really, instead of making adjustments to people complaining, all you have done here is just brute force your decisions. Look at all the 9 pages worth of complaints, and it clearly shows in the number of people that showed up. I raised up a question, because clearly, the entire 64 players did not show up, so did the organizer magically take out some $800 and give out to the players?
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On November 27 2011 18:57 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 17:01 Diamond wrote:On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it. Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money? Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize your tournament was as grand as MLG, my apologies. As a local organizer myself, I just thought it was important to show the players exactly how their money was being spent. But really, instead of making adjustments to people complaining, all you have done here is just brute force your decisions. Look at all the 9 pages worth of complaints, and it clearly shows in the number of people that showed up. I raised up a question, because clearly, the entire 64 players did not show up, so did the organizer magically take out some $800 and give out to the players?
Uh this is not my tournament......
Also, businesses sometimes lose money while trying to make money, sometimes they come out ahead, it's called risk. This isn't a new concept.
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On November 27 2011 19:15 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 18:57 CanucksJC wrote:On November 27 2011 17:01 Diamond wrote:On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it. Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money? Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize your tournament was as grand as MLG, my apologies. As a local organizer myself, I just thought it was important to show the players exactly how their money was being spent. But really, instead of making adjustments to people complaining, all you have done here is just brute force your decisions. Look at all the 9 pages worth of complaints, and it clearly shows in the number of people that showed up. I raised up a question, because clearly, the entire 64 players did not show up, so did the organizer magically take out some $800 and give out to the players? Uh this is not my tournament...... Also, businesses sometimes lose money while trying to make money, sometimes they come out ahead, it's called risk. This isn't a new concept.
Short answer to your question is yes.
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On November 27 2011 18:57 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 17:01 Diamond wrote:On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it. Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money? Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize your tournament was as grand as MLG, my apologies. As a local organizer myself, I just thought it was important to show the players exactly how their money was being spent. But really, instead of making adjustments to people complaining, all you have done here is just brute force your decisions. Look at all the 9 pages worth of complaints, and it clearly shows in the number of people that showed up. I raised up a question, because clearly, the entire 64 players did not show up, so did the organizer magically take out some $800 and give out to the players?
When you go to a lan , and pay their price, do you ask how they spend it? or when you buy food at a market? Fact is there is chance to win money, its up to each their own if people want to participate. Theres money to be won, who cares what is happening with the logistics. Hope this cleared things up!
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When you go to a lan , and pay their price, do you ask how they spend it? or when you buy food at a market? Fact is there is chance to win money, its up to each their own if people want to participate. Theres money to be won, who cares what is happening with the logistics. Hope this cleared things up!
I think it's perfectly normal for people to ask about logistics when the entry fee is considerably higher than other events of similar nature. I don't see what could be wrong with transparency when there is an unexplained deviation in entry fee.
Why on earth does it need to be explained? Do we sit there and add up the costs of MLG and demand to know where they are making money?
That's not a very good comparison. Player passes at MLG obviously only cover a fraction of the costs.
Also "the short answer is yes" is kind of like "sort of" which is about as useful as a blank post.
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On November 27 2011 08:40 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 18:16 prodiG wrote:
The prize pool remains the same regardless of entrants.
I'm not from Edmonton or anything, but how does this make sense? So if only 16 people joined that's $640 from registration fees. $860 is coming from your own pocket in that case? What if all 64 joined with $45 late fees? That's $2880. Where would the entire $1330 go? That's a pretty big difference in prize pool depending on number of people showing up and I think you should be more transparent about it.
Anyone who has asked me in person has had very honest and straight-forward response to any question they have asked. Why would I not post it in a online thread of which 95% of the people wouldn't care about (or even consider) that side of the business? question answered.
If you want you know how everything works JC contact me on skype, we have each other.
And lastly, yeah, I lost some money. I'm willing to invest some money to hopefully make it back in the future. As I have said to everyone who cares I am in a position that I can do, and so I do. Why do you get to decide how I spend my money? remind me.
+ Show Spoiler +I wont deny that there are things that I need to learn from to take to future events but I assure you I will learn and next time we will have a better product in a more feasible model.
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On November 28 2011 03:10 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +
When you go to a lan , and pay their price, do you ask how they spend it? or when you buy food at a market? Fact is there is chance to win money, its up to each their own if people want to participate. Theres money to be won, who cares what is happening with the logistics. Hope this cleared things up!
I think it's perfectly normal for people to ask about logistics when the entry fee is considerably higher than other events of similar nature. I don't see what could be wrong with transparency when there is an unexplained deviation in entry fee.
When you say similar nature you mean tournament right? because any tournament in Western Canada that has broken 1k in cash has had a 40$ buy-in.
I don't want to come across aggressive but this kind of talk is counter-productive, I'll make myself clear; you talk to me in person and I will tell you everything I feel I should, you take it to a forum and I will ignore it.
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Turnout was pretty good yesterday! Top 16 start duking it out soon! As far as I am aware I believe they are streaming it at Rouge Lounge just off Jasper! If you guys want some cheap brews, and want to watch some SC from Edmonton, and surroundings finest head on down!
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stream lag anyone else feel on higher qualities?
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I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir.
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any live brackets? geez cmon !
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NrG.Dime wins! Congrats yo~
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grats Dime, what are the overall standings, the challonge brackets are not updated yet
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great event everyone! i had a ton of fun and learned alot
im hoping i can find vods of my games being casted
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On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir.
I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now
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On November 28 2011 13:01 ScareCrow` wrote:Only 20 players?
That's what I thought.
lols, all good though.
On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir. I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now
YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's
BEST
MICRO
EVA
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Great tourney. I love you guys <3
Also, it's really cool that there were so many people following the tournament. I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada. I didn't quite get as far as I wanted to going in, but after looking at the players who attended, I feel privileged to have my name up there.
Casting was a lot of fun too, even though i'm pretty sure i made myself look like a fucking idiot.
This tournament is a good sign for the future. ^^
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On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
Great tourney. I love you guys <3
Also, it's really cool that there were so many people following the tournament. I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada. I didn't quite get as far as I wanted to going in, but after looking at the players who attended, I feel privileged to have my name up there.
Casting was a lot of fun too, even though i'm pretty sure i made myself look like a fucking idiot.
This tournament is a good sign for the future. ^^
woah woah. you must be clueless about the caliber of players in western canada... maybe the scariest top 8 for edmonton, but west canada? you for real?
Anyways this tournament could've been so much more if the organizers listened to the people. Things like better map pool, lower entry fee and bam you would have atleast 32 players sign up, not 20. It's really funny how the organizers claimed that spots were filling up fast. Instead of lying, they should have re-thought their approach and adjust before its too late. The amount of players who showed up is quite pathetic considering all the hype this was getting with the prize pool and all. I think the organizers have to really question their decisions since they will be paying from their own pockets this time when they could have had a successful tournament by not opposing other peoples suggestions and opinions on the tournament. I don't know what kind of business model the organizers are following but clearly losing lots of money is considered a failed system. And to say they only discuss matters in person and not in a forum? Seriously? Countless of tournament organizers and companies such as TwitchTV have created accounts on TL to get feedback from the community. The people that GIVE them money. People don't have time to drive and have a cup of coffee to ask questions about a tournament. You should NOT ignore posts on this thread.
Lastly, the commentators. Errm, sorry "a" commentator. prodiG was all dandy, but his co-pilot was really painful and a few of my colleagues agreed. Needs to work on some professionalism when things hit the fan like the match with the wrong tal darim alter map. Going all "he is mad, raging blah blah" reminded me of a 15 year old going umadbro? rage? cool story? I don't remember it exactly but IT WAS painful.
Would like to see Edmonton and Alberta E-Sports take off but this was a painful step in the RIGHT, yes right direction. Because well it was a BIG prize tourney. But it was very very painful. Stream was well put together kudos on that. And as always OKG seemed to be a great host! GG
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On November 28 2011 15:15 polski wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
Great tourney. I love you guys <3
Also, it's really cool that there were so many people following the tournament. I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada. I didn't quite get as far as I wanted to going in, but after looking at the players who attended, I feel privileged to have my name up there.
Casting was a lot of fun too, even though i'm pretty sure i made myself look like a fucking idiot.
This tournament is a good sign for the future. ^^ woah woah. you must be clueless about the caliber of players in western canada... maybe the scariest top 8 for edmonton, but west canada? you for real?
qt
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On November 28 2011 14:35 Gofarman wrote:That's what I thought. lols, all good though. Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir. I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's BEST MICRO EVA
That's really disappointing. I know at least 4-5 Calgarians who would've come personally including myself if it had been structured a little differently. It seems like it was a great tournament for anyone residing in Edmonton, but outside of that really not cost effective.
The prize pool itself is amazing, but taking into account how the tournament was run and how the pot was split really discouraged us. Entry fee and travel costs alone made first and second place the only profitable standings, and when we factored in that we'd have to stay a night it was thrown out the window. I don't think anyone is looking forward to play to win back their entry fee and anything below RO8, (or even RO4, realistically) shouldn't be rewarded, but instead offer a larger reward to the top dogs.
Expecting 64 people is reasonable, but I don't understand the need for 2 days from this. Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament today that lasted 3 hours. Having to stay an extra day really racks up the costs for anyone outside of town. 64 players is ultimately 6 rounds of games, which at most will take between 6-8 hours, if games are going their full lengths and playing full sets. Anyone who is serious about competing has no problem with this, I think.
There's been a few mentions about the map pool in this thread already so I won't bring much more of it to light...but it seems like this is also a thing more constrictive to the Edmonton scene, in that anyone who doesn't strictly follow these line of tournaments would actually be at a disadvantage in having to learn half the map pool which is counter-productive to what the general argument for them was. If the goal was to select maps where skill was the pure determinant I think it would be more prudent to choose maps everyone was familiar with, rather than based off win percentages by race, which as it stands most maps in the pool are currently within a 55% W/L ratio for either side anyways.
All in all if the tournament was designed to promote Edmonton starcraft then kudos, seems like it was a blast. If the goal was to promote starcraft in the greater population of Alberta, or even greater portions of Canada, then there could've been some tweaks to appeal to a greater spectrum in my opinion.
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Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament online (if I'm not mistaken), that doesn't involve any setup time & you can basically bang all of your matches out one after another. 64 players doesn't take 6-8 hours, try over 14 when you're doing it at a live venue where you have to be shuffling players around because they're sitting right next each other, getting up and disappearing for brief stints of time, etc. There's always room for optimization but at all of the tournaments that I've been to at any lan center 64 people doing a double elim bracket in 6-8 hours is beyond unrealistic.
As far as the map pool is concerned, see spoiler or read full interview if you are interested
+ Show Spoiler +<span class="Q"> You've made quite a few maps in your time. Can user made maps be good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level, and if so, how should tournaments go about incoporating them into their map pool?</span> P: There are many issues involved like balance and the limit experience of pros on non-ladder maps. In my opinion, user-made maps are already good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level for MANY reasons. The first of which is overall gameplay: User-made maps have been beating Blizzard maps since practically day one as far as exciting gameplay is concerned for both the players and spectators. Secondly, balance: A high-level mapmaker will take every balance issue very seriously and work to make sure the map is as close to balanced as possible (closed to balanced being 45-55 or at worst 60-40). For example, GSL recently removed Gold expansions from every single map in it's map pool because they determined that it was one of factors contributing to Terran's overwhelming success. Blizzard on the other hand often waits until the end of a ladder season (which up until recently could last longer than six months for all we knew) or not change the issue at all. Finally, bugfixes: Every map will have a bug from time to time. A cliff that wasn't supposed to be pathable turns out to be pathable, a mineral patch is slightly mis-placed, etc. Mapmakers will fix issues like that as soon as they hear about them - for example, the ESV Map Team strives for a 24-hour turnaround on bug reports and for the most part we hit it within the first 4 hours. Blizzard again might not fix the issue at all and instead decide to axe the map in a later season (did you know you can park a tank in one of the thirds on the ladder version of Antiga Shipyard and siege one of your opponent's geysers in his main if you have vision? this is a two minute fix, I did it myself. The ideal way for tournaments to incorporate maps into their map pool is simply to keep an eye open for new and interesting maps (this means having staff that's not in Bronze league picking your map pool *ahem*). From there, they can open up a dialogue with the mapmaker or mapmaking team they represent and sey "Hey, we're considering using your map in a tournament map pool. Can you make sure it's up on these servers and is as bug free as possible/give us the map file for us to publish ourselves?" From there, the tournament organizers can take feedback from the players - balance concerns, bug fixes, etc. and pass it along to the mapmaker so they can fix the map and continue testing until everyone is happy. This is exactly what we try to do with the ESV map team and the Korean Weekly, and this is exactly what GSL does with Crux. This obviously involves some risk for the organizer. They need to put up a decent amount of prizes to attract some reputable sources to provide feedback (Nestea will be able to give me much more useful information as a mapmaker than Joe Bronze) and if it turns out all of the maps they pick suck, it will tarnish their name and they'll have a harder time growing in the future. There is also the issue of backlash from the players - at the moment, SC2 is in a state where the map pools don't rotate very often. Trying to get players to play on new maps can be hard, even when there is a lot of incentive. You run the risk of alienating a lot of people which if you're trying to run your event as a business is essentially a lost customer. This is in my opinion the fault of everyone collectively: Tournaments didn't pick custom maps up early enough, Blizzard didn't add custom maps to their ladder pool because they wanted to balance the game and now a year and a half has passed and we're in a rut where all people want to play on is Metalopolis because that's what they know. That answer turned into a bit of a rant, so I'll summarize with this: Organizers are going to have to jump the gun sooner or later and basically say "Here's your massive prize pool, here's your maps for the event. Practice them if you want to win" - That, or some kind of progamer revolution where everyone unanimously boycotts any tournament with a Blizzard map in it (DIE METALOPOLIS > !!!! )
I can't speak entirely on behalf of CASL but I was one of the people who suggested that ~top 16 are in the money - this was based on the idea that 40-60 people would be showing up, not 20 based on IPL having a very similar model where players who did well even as early as the group stages were in the money. In the future I imagine this will be changed to be more top-heavy but that's not my call.
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Had a blast, and I was just happy that after all my resentment of PvP I could show some solid control in the finals. Plan on coming to the next one as well.
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The first lan is always the hardest, and you guys survived it. Congrats! You are now the future of Edmonton scene, and I have high expectations!
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Fun and great tournament, good job!
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This was a good tournament, I had fun. Gofarman put in a ton of effort, learned a lot and had to make some difficult decisions. For that, I would like to formally apologize to him and everyone involved for forcing Gofarman to make a difficult decision and the aftermath of that. It was not fair to him or anyone else what happened and is an embarrassment to myself.
Other than that, there were a few things to take away from the tournament. The turnout for the tournament was much lower than expected, however most of the top talent showed up. What this means? Smaller brackets and a more difficult tournament from the get-go. Why this is, I think there are three reasons:
Player unfriendly map pool
Two-day event
$40 Entry fee.
I know the entry fee was set to where it was due to the fact that the top 16 were all paid, however I feel this scares off the lower level players that know they have no chance at the top 16. The map pool also scares these same players off since they haven't seen some of these maps on the ladder or in major tournaments.
Personally, I have always liked Sanshorn Mist and it seemed to be well received. The other ESV maps, not so much -- players only choosing them because they knew their race had a clear advantage on them.
The two day event also was a contributing factor, since I assume many people didn't have a ton of time to put into this, and it's much easier to write off one day of your weekend rather than the entire thing.
On a different note, the whole thing was ran extremely well, with referee's taking care of the games and the admins taking care of the brackets and such. I really appreciated the effort and time put in by the officials, good job guys.
On November 28 2011 15:43 ScareCrow` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:35 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 13:01 ScareCrow` wrote:Only 20 players? That's what I thought. lols, all good though. On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir. I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's BEST MICRO EVA That's really disappointing. I know at least 4-5 Calgarians who would've come personally including myself if it had been structured a little differently. It seems like it was a great tournament for anyone residing in Edmonton, but outside of that really not cost effective. The prize pool itself is amazing, but taking into account how the tournament was run and how the pot was split really discouraged us. Entry fee and travel costs alone made first and second place the only profitable standings, and when we factored in that we'd have to stay a night it was thrown out the window. I don't think anyone is looking forward to play to win back their entry fee and anything below RO8, (or even RO4, realistically) shouldn't be rewarded, but instead offer a larger reward to the top dogs. Expecting 64 people is reasonable, but I don't understand the need for 2 days from this. Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament today that lasted 3 hours. Having to stay an extra day really racks up the costs for anyone outside of town. 64 players is ultimately 6 rounds of games, which at most will take between 6-8 hours, if games are going their full lengths and playing full sets. Anyone who is serious about competing has no problem with this, I think. There's been a few mentions about the map pool in this thread already so I won't bring much more of it to light...but it seems like this is also a thing more constrictive to the Edmonton scene, in that anyone who doesn't strictly follow these line of tournaments would actually be at a disadvantage in having to learn half the map pool which is counter-productive to what the general argument for them was. If the goal was to select maps where skill was the pure determinant I think it would be more prudent to choose maps everyone was familiar with, rather than based off win percentages by race, which as it stands most maps in the pool are currently within a 55% W/L ratio for either side anyways. All in all if the tournament was designed to promote Edmonton starcraft then kudos, seems like it was a blast. If the goal was to promote starcraft in the greater population of Alberta, or even greater portions of Canada, then there could've been some tweaks to appeal to a greater spectrum in my opinion.
Had it been a one day, double elim tournament, I would have placed a hell of a lot higher than I did, hahaha.
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On November 28 2011 16:07 prodiG wrote:Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament online (if I'm not mistaken), that doesn't involve any setup time & you can basically bang all of your matches out one after another. 64 players doesn't take 6-8 hours, try over 14 when you're doing it at a live venue where you have to be shuffling players around because they're sitting right next each other, getting up and disappearing for brief stints of time, etc. There's always room for optimization but at all of the tournaments that I've been to at any lan center 64 people doing a double elim bracket in 6-8 hours is beyond unrealistic. As far as the map pool is concerned, see spoiler or read full interview if you are interestedI can't speak entirely on behalf of CASL but I was one of the people who suggested that ~top 16 are in the money - this was based on the idea that 40-60 people would be showing up, not 20 based on IPL having a very similar model where players who did well even as early as the group stages were in the money. In the future I imagine this will be changed to be more top-heavy but that's not my call.
Well I was basing my numbers off watching GOMTV casts and relating the amount of time they take to cast a set to the time an entire round of sets would take with only 6 rounds. GOM usually takes 4 hours to cast 8~ Bo3 at full length, with 4 player booths. (Yet only using two at a time.) I can imagine any respectable lan to have at least half the space needed for competitors so you could have at least 32 players going at once. As for people shuffling around I think that's ...(BM?) to know you have a match approaching and not be present and ready to go. Tournaments usually deal with this by calling players to their rounds at time of play and DQ after significant periods of time. Since I mentioned playhem, an online tournament, I'll note that even they have a 15 minute max that you can be gone before you start getting default losses. Still, I guess I can see a tournament like this going a good 12+ hours if there isn't enough room to accommodate everyone.
I read the entire article in question actually before I posted my first comment, and I understand that there are "more balanced" maps, and the shift in the korean scene lately, even in GOM introducing maps like calm before the storm this season, but in relation to the map pool provided in this tournament almost half the maps available are not something a great portion of the players will be familiar with. I'm not saying resort to blizzard ladder maps only, but there are other options that have been used in MLG, GOM, and other noteworthy tournaments that would have been given exposure. I understand your connections with ESV and the promotion of maps through this way, but I think I speak for a large chunk of the group that didn't attend in that some of these are a little too "underground."
I don't mind the IPL prize system, or even NASL which almost has an identical format, but when get down to raw numbers it's where smaller tournaments can't really host in a fashion like this. The split in those tournaments we're still talking about players walking away with over a thousand dollars, even though the prize money at this point is not the reason they're going there so much as the exposure for their sponsors. If I were to play rock paper scissors with 3 of my friends over a dollar and the winner was to get 40 cents, the runner up 30 cents, and the other two get fifteen a piece I'm pretty sure we'd all rather just compete over the dollar itself. It just comes down to the actual value when we're getting into the lower ranges, especially since the greater portion of your players will be un-sponsored, and looking to make out with as much reward as we can for how much work we can put in. =)
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On November 28 2011 15:43 ScareCrow` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:35 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 13:01 ScareCrow` wrote:Only 20 players? That's what I thought. lols, all good though. On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.
I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.
hats off to you sir. I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's BEST MICRO EVA That's really disappointing. I know at least 4-5 Calgarians who would've come personally including myself if it had been structured a little differently. It seems like it was a great tournament for anyone residing in Edmonton, but outside of that really not cost effective. The prize pool itself is amazing, but taking into account how the tournament was run and how the pot was split really discouraged us. Entry fee and travel costs alone made first and second place the only profitable standings, and when we factored in that we'd have to stay a night it was thrown out the window. I don't think anyone is looking forward to play to win back their entry fee and anything below RO8, (or even RO4, realistically) shouldn't be rewarded, but instead offer a larger reward to the top dogs. Expecting 64 people is reasonable, but I don't understand the need for 2 days from this. Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament today that lasted 3 hours. Having to stay an extra day really racks up the costs for anyone outside of town. 64 players is ultimately 6 rounds of games, which at most will take between 6-8 hours, if games are going their full lengths and playing full sets. Anyone who is serious about competing has no problem with this, I think. There's been a few mentions about the map pool in this thread already so I won't bring much more of it to light...but it seems like this is also a thing more constrictive to the Edmonton scene, in that anyone who doesn't strictly follow these line of tournaments would actually be at a disadvantage in having to learn half the map pool which is counter-productive to what the general argument for them was. If the goal was to select maps where skill was the pure determinant I think it would be more prudent to choose maps everyone was familiar with, rather than based off win percentages by race, which as it stands most maps in the pool are currently within a 55% W/L ratio for either side anyways. All in all if the tournament was designed to promote Edmonton starcraft then kudos, seems like it was a blast. If the goal was to promote starcraft in the greater population of Alberta, or even greater portions of Canada, then there could've been some tweaks to appeal to a greater spectrum in my opinion.
Glad that you guys heard about it and too bad you couldn't justify making it down. I'll try and address some of your points since they are completely reasonable.
Lower entry fee = Lower Prize pool. (that's just how it is.)
1 day vs 2 day.
Edmonton has historically had tournaments take epically long, I have streamlined the process quite a bit since 8 months ago but it will be further refined. With that said tournaments are a real stamina test for a lot of players and as an organizer I am a bit lax on this in cases. While being very strict about timing 'could' speed up my tournaments I am first a fan of the game and players and want them to show their best foot forward. (Players play better when they are not being harassed about warm up periods and short breaks between games) To accommodate this AS WELL as the lan center since evenings are their busiest times we have used the 2 day system. (this also allows me time for other stuff since I have an night to prepare for D2)
Map Pool-
As I have said before I am a strong believer that a good player should be able to adjust their play to the situation, whether that means patch changes or map changes. To that end I aimed to give some of these players incentive to develop skills that they might not consider otherwise, some cases it was a great success, others not so much. I will also admit I am a fanboi of ESV so that might taint my opinion for some people. Also, stale maps ftl. In addition both posting the starting map for the sets as well as each player getting a veto seems to solve what people thought were map imbalances.
Edmonton vs Alberta vs Greater parts of Canada (AKA Western Canada)
This is my first event that is a guaranteed prize pool, 3rd of it's kind in Western Canada I believe. If you look at the past events on par with this one none of them really had significant participation from outside their city. I did what I could to reach out to players in Calgary and a simple PM to me could have solved your issue with a hotel.
As for other issues such as raising the profile of players, community members and regions there is work to be done. No tournament will be able to do all of it perfectly (even well) but as a organizer I will do what I can to get the word out that there are good players in first Edmonton, then Alberta and soon all Canada. Once the ball is rolling everyone gets to pick the direction a bit.
CASL vs Playhem
Yes I took about 6x as long as them to run a bracket with 10% the people but I also think that running a single elim bracket is retarded, especially if people are driving and paying money to attend such an event. Your comparison highlights your lack of valid opinion on this matter.
My system gave the best players their best chance of winning while still having a timely end.
My opinion is that Groups>Double elim>Single elim although, hell I managed to use all 3 in 1 tourney.
+ Show Spoiler [ More about bracket systems] +Let me expand my opinion on brackets a bit more;
Single Elim
-Great for raising hype and intrigue
-Seeding must be spot on to achieve the goal of a tourney
Double Elim
-Creates Marathon brackets
-Punishes players for bad play
-Allows for seeding anomalies
Group Stage (group of 4, 2 advance)
-Gives great info for seeds
-Allows players some certainty for practice
Now how does this all tie in to 1 tournament?
I see a tournament as measuring 3 skills of every player;
1. Skill- obv obv
2. Diversity- use of maps and units
3. Stamina- Physically and (more importantly) Mentally
My system of
Double elim ro64-->ro16 (tests stamina of players, cleans out the chaff)
Group Stage ro16-->ro8 (allows me to reward the top seeds, best way to reform a bracket and still award winners bracket players an advantage)
Single elim ro8-->winner (allows for a reasonably fast conclusion of tournament, seeds should be as close to perfect as can be)
After all that is said and done I believe that my tournament ultimately achieved what it set out to do, find the best player and give him money; while still rewarding players for performance and testing a sustainable model.
+ Show Spoiler [ @scarecrow] +I will be honest though, but until you have organized, hosted and admin'd a tournament declaring how long a tournament 'should' take is pretty ridiculous.
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Mad props to Gofarman for organizing this. I was able to catch a few of the streamed games. Love seeing this #yeg stuff. ^^
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Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.
Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)
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On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this.
Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made
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On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.
Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)
Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket.
seriously, do it.
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Sounds like everyone had a great time. Sad to see that attendance couldn't be higher. A gave a shout to the UofA team but most people are burdened with projects and exams at this time, so only a couple of them could make it. We did help them practice on the new maps, that was pretty good. It's awesome that you guys are continuously taking the initiative to create these huge events in Edmonton and promote our local scene so well. I'll try to make it out to the next one
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On November 28 2011 17:48 Gofarman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.
Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =) Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket. seriously, do it.
Woah man..no need to be so aggressive in your responses. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why your turn-out might not have been as high as expected. I personally feel like I missed out on something that was probably a fun experience, but in the end I felt I made the right decision in giving the event a pass due to monetary reasons.
I'm a huge proponent of supporting e-sports, locally and globally. I'm not here to bm your tournament, I'm trying to help your future endeavors.
Back on topic though, a double elimination lower bracket increases the round count by a single round, and the rest continues along the lines of the winners bracket. This will add aprox. an hour for the extra round? Maybe 1 1/2 to be safe? *shrug*
Anyways, going a little off track here. My point is that your turnout would have an increase of significance if play was reduced to a single day, which I don't think is completely unrealistic of a goal in dealing with numbers like these. =)
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On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~
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On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~
ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.
Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN.
Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day.
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On November 28 2011 18:02 ScareCrow` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 17:48 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.
Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =) Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket. seriously, do it. Woah man..no need to be so aggressive in your responses. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why your turn-out might not have been as high as expected. I personally feel like I missed out on something that was probably a fun experience, but in the end I felt I made the right decision in giving the event a pass due to monetary reasons. I'm a huge proponent of supporting e-sports, locally and globally. I'm not here to bm your tournament, I'm trying to help your future endeavors. Back on topic though, a double elimination lower bracket increases the round count by a single round, and the rest continues along the lines of the winners bracket. This will add aprox. an hour for the extra round? Maybe 1 1/2 to be safe? *shrug* Anyways, going a little off track here. My point is that your turnout would have an increase of significance if play was reduced to a single day, which I don't think is completely unrealistic of a goal in dealing with numbers like these. =)
No aggro, just trying to make it very clear.
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On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made
Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing.
not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses
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On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day.
You wanna do this?
If you guys can front some cash I will match it.
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On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
what... LOL u must be joking right..
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CanucksJC vs Gofarman bo13 grudgematch gogo!
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On November 29 2011 02:09 Gofarman wrote:
No aggro, just trying to make it very clear.
Oh well. Best of luck with future tournaments. I'll be sure to keep my eye open for any tweaks that work out favorably for my crew and we'll definitely try to attend what we can. =) Alberta esports fighting~
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On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses
I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8.
No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged.
Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn.
On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it.
Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close.
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sounds like we need a tournament to decide who the alberta team will be and a tournament to decide who the bc team will be oOoOoOoOo
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On November 29 2011 04:28 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8. No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged. Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn. Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it. Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close.
Well, to be fair, KawaiiRice, RaNgeD and Sterling drove from Seattle so they shouldn't count haha
I'm willing to organize things on this side, sometime early next year if you guys want to do this, make it epic ^^.
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On November 29 2011 05:52 prodiG wrote:
sounds like we need a tournament to decide who the alberta team will be and a tournament to decide who the bc team will be oOoOoOoOo
Random bracket generator, without seeds, and I'm in.
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A BC and Alberta tourney would be epic!
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On November 29 2011 07:35 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 04:28 chadissilent wrote:On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8. No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged. Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn. On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it. Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close. Well, to be fair, KawaiiRice, RaNgeD and Sterling drove from Seattle so they shouldn't count haha I'm willing to organize things on this side, sometime early next year if you guys want to do this, make it epic ^^.
Can we keep it strictly Alberta/BC players? Do it GSTL style and maybe get some other provinces/locations involved later in the year
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HYPE!!! BC will take this
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I'd argue that Vancouver surpasses Toronto as well. Our player pool extends to Royalflush and vilechance as well, both of which have beaten the likes of MKP, Hongun, kiwi as well as other really strong players. I hope we can get this tournament going soon ^^. An event like this would definitely give a huge boost the Canadian Starcraft scene.
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On November 29 2011 09:19 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 07:35 CanucksJC wrote:On November 29 2011 04:28 chadissilent wrote:On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8. No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged. Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn. On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it. Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close. Well, to be fair, KawaiiRice, RaNgeD and Sterling drove from Seattle so they shouldn't count haha I'm willing to organize things on this side, sometime early next year if you guys want to do this, make it epic ^^. Can we keep it strictly Alberta/BC players? Do it GSTL style and maybe get some other provinces/locations involved later in the year
Yes I'd prefer to keep it to BC and Alberta only for this event, format can be discussed very shortly ^^
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Hype this up! Can we make this an annual thing. BC vs AB team league LAN!
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On November 29 2011 04:28 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8. No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged. Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn. Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it. Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close.
Funny, I've beaten both Ranged and Optikzero multiple times on ladder, usually for 10-12 points I believe there are a couple vids on youtube of it too.... beaten stalife in tournies, Warden I have only played twice so I can't comment, and never heard of Saikou or Wannabe :O Tbh though BC seems like they could front quite a line up :O I'd be down to play lol
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On November 29 2011 11:20 SaroVati wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 04:28 chadissilent wrote:On November 29 2011 02:34 tQArchaic wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing. not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses I don't think the top 8 is even as good as it could have been if more people from Calgary showed up. Noctis is a damn strong Protoss, JasonX's macro far surpasses anybody I've played in Edmonton or Calgary, Mkengyn's name speaks for itself, let alone the lesser known Calgary players that are as strong as the Edmonton top 8. No offense man, you're a good guy and a good Terran for the Edmonton scene, but you're not in the same league as Wannabe, Warden, KawaiiRice and Stalife. Me and Sunshine aren't Saikou and FireZerg, Ander and Andro aren't Optikzero and Ranged. Vancouver is top 2 as far as gaming cities, competing with the Toronto area. Edmonton and Calgary have some good players, but nobody really stands out as a "great player" other than maybe Mkengyn. On November 29 2011 03:11 Gofarman wrote:On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.
You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~ ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN. Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day. You wanna do this? If you guys can front some cash I will match it. Dime, Mkengyn, Noctis, SaroVati, JasonX vs. Warden, Wannabe, Saikou, Stalife, Ranged? It would be pretty close. Funny, I've beaten both Ranged and Optikzero multiple times on ladder, usually for 10-12 points I believe there are a couple vids on youtube of it too.... beaten stalife in tournies, Warden I have only played twice so I can't comment, and never heard of Saikou or Wannabe :O Tbh though BC seems like they could front quite a line up :O I'd be down to play lol
You're noob though, I beat you 
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prodiG and whoever else that wants to discuss the BC vs Alberta showmatch series, add me on skype at mkchoi0801, I've already started talking to gofarman
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Drewbie is BC as well no? .. anyone mentioned in this thread is fairly respectable. Did royalflush get alot better in the last 2 months? I had no idea ranged was a BC resident either.... maybe im thinking of another player. Anyways, it would be an exciting series, i dont think a 4on4 quite does justice to the depth either area can offer though.
We tried this edmonton vs calgary a while back when sinatra and I were still active, and we never had any interest from the southern part of our lovely province, it would be nice to see them get a little bit of passion for a vs BC match though.
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On November 29 2011 13:04 LagLovah wrote:
Drewbie is BC as well no? .. anyone mentioned in this thread is fairly respectable. Did royalflush get alot better in the last 2 months? I had no idea ranged was a BC resident either.... maybe im thinking of another player. Anyways, it would be an exciting series, i dont think a 4on4 quite does justice to the depth either area can offer though.
We tried this edmonton vs calgary a while back when sinatra and I were still active, and we never had any interest from the southern part of our lovely province, it would be nice to see them get a little bit of passion for a vs BC match though.
If you read a little bit above, I said that KawaiiRice, RaNgeD and Sterling were from Seattle ^^ They just drove up for our last LAN. RoyalFlush is now a top 50 GM, you can interpret that either way i guess haha. I'd still like this to be a 11v11 proleague format, that would be fucking dope.
Drewbie is also from BC as well, but I think he lives elsewhere now I think....? Not too sure.
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Ranged Sterling and KR are from Seattle. I think the confusion came from the fact that they came up for our last tournament.
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Ya sorry i didnt see that part, I knew the rest were american but wasnt sure on Ranged and didnt see his name in that list. Thought i did alot better than i do vs royalflush i guess.. sc2gears set me straight only 5-5 vs him tt. Top 50 gm is, whatever i guess? Takes a large time commitment in ladder to keep your MMR high, as well as alot of time to commit to playing games to stay in it and to fight inflation. Im not here to contemplate the ladder though. Is stalife still active like he was before? firezerg as well, all i remember about him is briefly seeing him at the canada cup and having him get mad and storm out when he lost. Id put neans in the top 11 in bc if he wasnt inactive as well.
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Yea, well we shall discuss what kind of system we will use (although a proleague style is best imo) and see what kind of prize pool we can scrounge together. For anyone in BC that wants to discuss this idea you can get me on skype @ mitch.macp
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Holy jeez, my little offhanded comment turned into this? I hope i didn't offend anyone; i honestly probably said it a little too quickly when the fire of the moment still burned. I didn't mean it offensively.
The fact that it's turned into a potential showmatch though... Pretty sick. I hope this pans out. I <3 u BC :D
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The grudgematch is probably the best thing that could happen to this tournament (and the West Canadian scene), imo. Don't fret.
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On November 29 2011 14:24 ander wrote:
Holy jeez, my little offhanded comment turned into this? I hope i didn't offend anyone; i honestly probably said it a little too quickly when the fire of the moment still burned. I didn't mean it offensively.
The fact that it's turned into a potential showmatch though... Pretty sick. I hope this pans out. I <3 u BC :D
it's ok, you've started something epic.
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If Alberta wins, we get to move to BC and you can suffer through the winter for us this year.
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Chobopeon just said he'll be talking about this tournament on SC Report tommorrow. Go Edmonton!
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K alberta....
protoss: seravoti, laglovah, Sinatra, andro, dime
Zerg: Mkengyn, Sunshine
Terran: Archaic (sub), rebuked (i dont know if hes active?)
player named noctis? Like seriously have you played LOL 3's Nocturne is obviously OP and with a name like that hes obviously gonna carry the team
there isnt a province in canada that could touch this lineup, our protoss's are obviously the best in canada, we have the best zerg in canada, and our terrans are our only weak race but ill just have a snipe build for stalife and ill beat him like i beat drewbie in the two tournaments i played him!
Alot of the players listed by drone arent from BC, or dont live there anymore so imo alberta could beat any province in canada!
EDIT: Sunshine > Firezerg , saikou hands down, and the only reason Mk is better then sunshine is cause blizzard patched the game with infesters to buff MK.
also saying that there are unknown players in calgary that are somehow as good as our top 8 is wrong...we've been to calgary, and me a bad terran's worst day was when i placed 4th at the 1200 dollar tournament losing to MK 2-1 where as i beat MK 3-1 in a previous calgary tournament in the finals! Besides that ya know i only have 2 firsts and a second losing to rebuked 3-1 at one of kores tournaments. I think drones wrong! I think lagalovah active is the best toss in alberta, i think MK is better then sunshine but only because of the infestor buff and i think i might win the terran trophy because there arent any active terrans? Rebuked was better then me and clonze..but i dont know if either of them even practice!
It very much is laglovah/sarovati/andro vs dime, MK vs sunshine, and me vs rebuked? who wins that battle...we got the number i think!
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i dont know how each line up would stack up agaist eachother
but i want to find out! :D
alberta fighting!
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haha archaic, thats some how you hype an event with some trashtalk.
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On November 30 2011 14:55 tQArchaic wrote:
K alberta....
protoss: seravoti, laglovah, Sinatra, andro, dime
Zerg: Mkengyn, Sunshine
Terran: Archaic (sub), rebuked (i dont know if hes active?)
player named noctis? Like seriously have you played LOL 3's Nocturne is obviously OP and with a name like that hes obviously gonna carry the team
there isnt a province in canada that could touch this lineup, our protoss's are obviously the best in canada, we have the best zerg in canada, and our terrans are our only weak race but ill just have a snipe build for stalife and ill beat him like i beat drewbie in the two tournaments i played him!
Alot of the players listed by drone arent from BC, or dont live there anymore so imo alberta could beat any province in canada!
EDIT: Sunshine > Firezerg , saikou hands down, and the only reason Mk is better then sunshine is cause blizzard patched the game with infesters to buff MK.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not, your post sounds delusional... Honestly dude, I'm not sure you are as good as you think you are. Then again, my practice partners are a whole league above you. I would put myself on the same level as Sunshine and both FireZerg and Saikou are above both of us. When Saikou is playing and on his game, he's damn near unbeatable. He was the best Zerg in tQ, the same team you went 0-2 with everyone in our in-house round robin before you left. ChAnCe is also from BC who is arguably one of the best Z in Canada.
The fact that you do nothing but play in-house games really skews your views towards other players and areas. Best Protoss in Canada? Hmmm, what about Kiwikaki, HuK, Jianfei, TT1, DdoRo? I take games off our "best Protosses in Canada" regularly, something I don't do the the previously mentioned players. It doesn't matter who you beat, I have beat some of the best players on the ladder, does that mean I'm better than them? Fuck no. Does that mean I can take a series off them? Highly unlikely.
Noctis is a Grandmaster Protoss player from Calgary, he's solid. The best Terran in Alberta is JasonX, a GM Terran also from Calgary.
I'm not saying that we couldn't give BC a good match, but let's be realistic.
We can have someone make a series of 3 unseeded double elimination tournaments, assigning points to each finish. The 8 people with the highest amount of points at the end of the tournaments would qualify for the AB vs BC showmatch.
also saying that there are unknown players in calgary that are somehow as good as our top 8 is wrong...we've been to calgary, and me a bad terran's worst day was when i placed 4th at the 1200 dollar tournament losing to MK 2-1 where as i beat MK 3-1 in a previous calgary tournament in the finals! Besides that ya know i only have 2 firsts and a second losing to rebuked 3-1 at one of kores tournaments. I think drones wrong! I think lagalovah active is the best toss in alberta, i think MK is better then sunshine but only because of the infestor buff and i think i might win the terran trophy because there arent any active terrans? Rebuked was better then me and clonze..but i dont know if either of them even practice!
It very much is laglovah/sarovati/andro vs dime, MK vs sunshine, and me vs rebuked? who wins that battle...we got the number i think!
JasonX is better than you are. Tech is good enough to place Top 8 in Edmonton, tofu as well. If Obitus still played, he would be in contention for the top 8.
Tom, you aren't as good as you think you are. You are a good Terran for Edmonton but that's about it. How do you do in online tournaments? How do you do on the ladder? If you think MK is only better than Sunshine because of the infestor buff (nerfs?), you're high.
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On November 30 2011 15:24 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 14:55 tQArchaic wrote:
K alberta....
protoss: seravoti, laglovah, Sinatra, andro, dime
Zerg: Mkengyn, Sunshine
Terran: Archaic (sub), rebuked (i dont know if hes active?)
player named noctis? Like seriously have you played LOL 3's Nocturne is obviously OP and with a name like that hes obviously gonna carry the team
there isnt a province in canada that could touch this lineup, our protoss's are obviously the best in canada, we have the best zerg in canada, and our terrans are our only weak race but ill just have a snipe build for stalife and ill beat him like i beat drewbie in the two tournaments i played him!
Alot of the players listed by drone arent from BC, or dont live there anymore so imo alberta could beat any province in canada!
EDIT: Sunshine > Firezerg , saikou hands down, and the only reason Mk is better then sunshine is cause blizzard patched the game with infesters to buff MK. I'm not sure if you're serious or not, your post sounds delusional... Honestly dude, I'm not sure you are as good as you think you are. Then again, my practice partners are a whole league above you. I would put myself on the same level as Sunshine and both FireZerg and Saikou are above both of us. When Saikou is playing and on his game, he's damn near unbeatable. He was the best Zerg in tQ, the same team you went 0-2 with everyone in our in-house round robin before you left. ChAnCe is also from BC who is arguably one of the best Z in Canada. The fact that you do nothing but play in-house games really skews your views towards other players and areas. Best Protoss in Canada? Hmmm, what about Kiwikaki, HuK, Jianfei, TT1, DdoRo? I take games off our "best Protosses in Canada" regularly, something I don't do the the previously mentioned players. It doesn't matter who you beat, I have beat some of the best players on the ladder, does that mean I'm better than them? Fuck no. Does that mean I can take a series off them? Highly unlikely. Noctis is a Grandmaster Protoss player from Calgary, he's solid. The best Terran in Alberta is JasonX, a GM Terran also from Calgary. I'm not saying that we couldn't give BC a good match, but let's be realistic. We can have someone make a series of 3 unseeded double elimination tournaments, assigning points to each finish. The 8 people with the highest amount of points at the end of the tournaments would qualify for the AB vs BC showmatch.
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
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oh drone <3 your zerg is so cute :D
Its too bad jasonx mkengyn and Noctis weren't able to make it to Edmonton for a weekend, it would have been the best way to rank the players skill level under the pressure of tournament conditions.
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On November 30 2011 15:24 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 14:55 tQArchaic wrote:
K alberta....
protoss: seravoti, laglovah, Sinatra, andro, dime
Zerg: Mkengyn, Sunshine
Terran: Archaic (sub), rebuked (i dont know if hes active?)
player named noctis? Like seriously have you played LOL 3's Nocturne is obviously OP and with a name like that hes obviously gonna carry the team
there isnt a province in canada that could touch this lineup, our protoss's are obviously the best in canada, we have the best zerg in canada, and our terrans are our only weak race but ill just have a snipe build for stalife and ill beat him like i beat drewbie in the two tournaments i played him!
Alot of the players listed by drone arent from BC, or dont live there anymore so imo alberta could beat any province in canada!
EDIT: Sunshine > Firezerg , saikou hands down, and the only reason Mk is better then sunshine is cause blizzard patched the game with infesters to buff MK. I'm not sure if you're serious or not, your post sounds delusional... Honestly dude, I'm not sure you are as good as you think you are. Then again, my practice partners are a whole league above you. I would put myself on the same level as Sunshine and both FireZerg and Saikou are above both of us. When Saikou is playing and on his game, he's damn near unbeatable. He was the best Zerg in tQ, the same team you went 0-2 with everyone in our in-house round robin before you left. ChAnCe is also from BC who is arguably one of the best Z in Canada. The fact that you do nothing but play in-house games really skews your views towards other players and areas. Best Protoss in Canada? Hmmm, what about Kiwikaki, HuK, Jianfei, TT1, DdoRo? I take games off our "best Protosses in Canada" regularly, something I don't do the the previously mentioned players. It doesn't matter who you beat, I have beat some of the best players on the ladder, does that mean I'm better than them? Fuck no. Does that mean I can take a series off them? Highly unlikely. Noctis is a Grandmaster Protoss player from Calgary, he's solid. The best Terran in Alberta is JasonX, a GM Terran also from Calgary. I'm not saying that we couldn't give BC a good match, but let's be realistic. We can have someone make a series of 3 unseeded double elimination tournaments, assigning points to each finish. The 8 people with the highest amount of points at the end of the tournaments would qualify for the AB vs BC showmatch. Show nested quote +also saying that there are unknown players in calgary that are somehow as good as our top 8 is wrong...we've been to calgary, and me a bad terran's worst day was when i placed 4th at the 1200 dollar tournament losing to MK 2-1 where as i beat MK 3-1 in a previous calgary tournament in the finals! Besides that ya know i only have 2 firsts and a second losing to rebuked 3-1 at one of kores tournaments. I think drones wrong! I think lagalovah active is the best toss in alberta, i think MK is better then sunshine but only because of the infestor buff and i think i might win the terran trophy because there arent any active terrans? Rebuked was better then me and clonze..but i dont know if either of them even practice!
It very much is laglovah/sarovati/andro vs dime, MK vs sunshine, and me vs rebuked? who wins that battle...we got the number i think!
JasonX is better than you are. Tech is good enough to place Top 8 in Edmonton, tofu as well. If Obitus still played, he would be in contention for the top 8. Tom, you aren't as good as you think you are. You are a good Terran for Edmonton but that's about it. How do you do in online tournaments? How do you do on the ladder? If you think MK is only better than Sunshine because of the infestor buff (nerfs?), you're high.
This guy knows what's up.
Archaic, don't be too upset after this event <3
edit: Also, format is pretty much decided, after talking to gofarman and prodiG. It will be teams of 11, proleague format, winner stays. Date is set tentatively early Feb, in the meantime, get yo game on son.
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On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team.
What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues.
Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members.
Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good?
Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know.
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Thanks for making this thread really entertaining Archaic!!! And for the record I can't wait to see what more you have to say!!!
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On November 30 2011 16:12 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 15:24 chadissilent wrote:On November 30 2011 14:55 tQArchaic wrote:
K alberta....
protoss: seravoti, laglovah, Sinatra, andro, dime
Zerg: Mkengyn, Sunshine
Terran: Archaic (sub), rebuked (i dont know if hes active?)
player named noctis? Like seriously have you played LOL 3's Nocturne is obviously OP and with a name like that hes obviously gonna carry the team
there isnt a province in canada that could touch this lineup, our protoss's are obviously the best in canada, we have the best zerg in canada, and our terrans are our only weak race but ill just have a snipe build for stalife and ill beat him like i beat drewbie in the two tournaments i played him!
Alot of the players listed by drone arent from BC, or dont live there anymore so imo alberta could beat any province in canada!
EDIT: Sunshine > Firezerg , saikou hands down, and the only reason Mk is better then sunshine is cause blizzard patched the game with infesters to buff MK. I'm not sure if you're serious or not, your post sounds delusional... Honestly dude, I'm not sure you are as good as you think you are. Then again, my practice partners are a whole league above you. I would put myself on the same level as Sunshine and both FireZerg and Saikou are above both of us. When Saikou is playing and on his game, he's damn near unbeatable. He was the best Zerg in tQ, the same team you went 0-2 with everyone in our in-house round robin before you left. ChAnCe is also from BC who is arguably one of the best Z in Canada. The fact that you do nothing but play in-house games really skews your views towards other players and areas. Best Protoss in Canada? Hmmm, what about Kiwikaki, HuK, Jianfei, TT1, DdoRo? I take games off our "best Protosses in Canada" regularly, something I don't do the the previously mentioned players. It doesn't matter who you beat, I have beat some of the best players on the ladder, does that mean I'm better than them? Fuck no. Does that mean I can take a series off them? Highly unlikely. Noctis is a Grandmaster Protoss player from Calgary, he's solid. The best Terran in Alberta is JasonX, a GM Terran also from Calgary. I'm not saying that we couldn't give BC a good match, but let's be realistic. We can have someone make a series of 3 unseeded double elimination tournaments, assigning points to each finish. The 8 people with the highest amount of points at the end of the tournaments would qualify for the AB vs BC showmatch. also saying that there are unknown players in calgary that are somehow as good as our top 8 is wrong...we've been to calgary, and me a bad terran's worst day was when i placed 4th at the 1200 dollar tournament losing to MK 2-1 where as i beat MK 3-1 in a previous calgary tournament in the finals! Besides that ya know i only have 2 firsts and a second losing to rebuked 3-1 at one of kores tournaments. I think drones wrong! I think lagalovah active is the best toss in alberta, i think MK is better then sunshine but only because of the infestor buff and i think i might win the terran trophy because there arent any active terrans? Rebuked was better then me and clonze..but i dont know if either of them even practice!
It very much is laglovah/sarovati/andro vs dime, MK vs sunshine, and me vs rebuked? who wins that battle...we got the number i think!
JasonX is better than you are. Tech is good enough to place Top 8 in Edmonton, tofu as well. If Obitus still played, he would be in contention for the top 8. Tom, you aren't as good as you think you are. You are a good Terran for Edmonton but that's about it. How do you do in online tournaments? How do you do on the ladder? If you think MK is only better than Sunshine because of the infestor buff (nerfs?), you're high. This guy knows what's up. Archaic, don't be too upset after this event <3edit: Also, format is pretty much decided, after talking to gofarman and prodiG. It will be teams of 11, proleague format, winner stays. Date is set tentatively early Feb, in the meantime, get yo game on son.
He's going to be upset. I can smell it.
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This is why I want to make a tQdrOne fanclub
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On November 30 2011 17:17 Chairman Ray wrote:This is why I want to make a tQdrOne fanclub
Let's also make an OKGArchaic fan club while we're at it
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On November 30 2011 16:58 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team. What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues. Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members. Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good? Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know.
Do i get to play if theres a 5v5? you know, if i decide to start taking sc mildly seriously again
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On November 30 2011 17:21 LagLovah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:58 chadissilent wrote:On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team. What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues. Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members. Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good? Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know. Do i get to play if theres a 5v5? you know, if i decide to start taking sc mildly seriously again
You know I would never leave you out <3. Unless, of course, you are not part of Archaic's little OK club.
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I havent been part of any club for months now, but I do have my city pride, even if edmonton is kind of a dump
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Wouldn't a team style of series of bo3's be more effective in showing the better city? It would force everyone on the lineup to play as better city is also about depth, and having the best player would still be able to utilize the ace match as an advantage.
I mean with the current format i might not even get to play :D
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@LagLovah You think you can make top 11?
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Who is this sunshine who's apparently better than me, I'd like to meet him so he can teach me gosu zerg skillz pls kkty
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On November 30 2011 17:25 LagLovah wrote:I havent been part of any club for months now, but I do have my city pride, even if edmonton is kind of a dump
I was talking about his OKG team vs my SC2 team, Clash. Not Edmonton vs Calgary since I still consider myself from Edmonton
On November 30 2011 17:31 ariK wrote:
Who is this sunshine who's apparently better than me, I'd like to meet him so he can teach me gosu zerg skillz pls kkty
Elaya, who are you? I've never seen you at an Edmonton LAN so you must be some random scrub who just thinks he's good because he has a high ladder rank.
<3 droney
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On November 30 2011 17:31 ariK wrote:
Who is this sunshine who's apparently better than me, I'd like to meet him so he can teach me gosu zerg skillz pls kkty
tQSunshine. He's really good. Not sure if you knew him during your time in tQ.
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On November 30 2011 17:29 CanucksJC wrote:
@LagLovah You think you can make top 11?
If i play then easily... the only person I worry about when I practice in alberta is mkengyn, and only because he plays imba zerg
Because of work and other obligations I dont play as much as I should, and am not very well known, but there isnt a pro player in NA I havent taken games off of at one point or another. Having a mortgage and car payments really cuts into your practice time it turns out. It helps that the majority of the strong players in alberta are protoss as well, as historically thats been my strongest matchup
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Hahahaha, is this a joke? Oh, Alberta. You so silly.
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On November 30 2011 17:51 Cedstick wrote:
Hahahaha, is this a joke? Oh, Alberta. You so silly.
Please don't mistake one person's comments for all of us.
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On November 30 2011 16:58 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team. What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues. Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members. Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good? Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know.
Considering everyone has good matchups and bad matchups saying that one player can beat another based on his performance against another player isn't the best way to judge
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On December 01 2011 02:21 ShakAttaK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:58 chadissilent wrote:On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team. What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues. Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members. Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good? Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know. Considering everyone has good matchups and bad matchups saying that one player can beat another based on his performance against another player isn't the best way to judge
I agree completely. that being said, i'm clearly DA BEST EURHER (ever)
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On December 01 2011 02:21 ShakAttaK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 16:58 chadissilent wrote:On November 30 2011 15:35 tQArchaic wrote:
sry i have a hard time giving respect to players that have not been tested in a tournament setting! What have you, jasonx or noctis done in a competitive atmosphere!? Talk is talk but tournaments seem a much simpler way of determining skill! So chad why is it that i watched you lose over and over to Andro in games where he just simply out plays you! Sure they were close but at the end of the day the guy that practices with bad players like me, sunshine and ander can beat you repeatedly in a tournament setting. Come at us bro my team can take it. AND for the record im not good! let me say that again IM NOT GOOD but my team is! And sarovaties good to! Laglovah's a trump card!
for online tournaments I've played a total of 3 with a top 32 finish in a TL open! So im sorry i dont have time to play tournaments with no prize pools but Lan is what matters in kiwikak's words
o and for the record i dont do drugs all the views in these articles are fully supported by team OK
and also for the record i was msged by tQ a couple weeks back asking for me to come play for them again....we all know that, that didnt happen!
tQ wanted you back because all the good players left. After Mike (WinteR) went to xSix, everybody decided it was time to move on. The current manager is recruiting low masters and diamond players to recreate the team. What have I done in a tournament atmosphere? Won one of three LAN events I attended, won 2 tQ Opens, won a Wysley's open tournament, won several matches in clan leagues. Andro outplays me? I crushed him 2 games, he crushed me 2 games, we had 2 close games. That's really outplaying... This is after having fucked up brackets, where I 2-1 SaroVati (the same guy that 2-0 you ezpz), get thrown into brackets and then play the same guy I played in brackets in the championship round? It sounds like there's a mistake in the final bracket generation there. Ask anderhyo how he fared against me today, one of your super pro team OKG members. Let's have a clan war, 5v5 Korean style. My team vs your team, $100 coming up from each side. Sound good? Edit: I think the tone of your message may be misunderstood. I'm glad you're trying to pump your guys up and good on you for doing that. You just have to respect other players that you don't really know. Considering everyone has good matchups and bad matchups saying that one player can beat another based on his performance against another player isn't the best way to judge
I'm just saying that he has to respect other players that don't show up to his team practices or Edmonton LANs. Hell, a few of the top players in Edmonton aren't even in OKG.
Edit: Clonze is da best.
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Stalife, FireZerg, OptikZero, Drewbie, vilechance, vvvhasuu, RoyalFlush, Wintermelon, Saikou, 4k.warden, blur, ganon, neans, validitysaga, wannabe, zaizai, and theres more that I cant even remember.
Not to mention all the mid-high masters.
Should be good, but I dont think alberta can field anything quite as strong. I would be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong. Just means our beautiful country is even stronger than I originally thought.
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you deserve negative fans for this.
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On December 01 2011 07:39 Clonze wrote:you deserve negative fans for this.
you just jelly that he stole all both of your fans
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On December 01 2011 07:39 Clonze wrote:you deserve negative fans for this.
clearly you've never seen the kji build or you'd think differently...
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now for next time make sure you make it a 1 day event so us Calgary peeps show yall whos boss!
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On December 01 2011 05:18 Hasuu wrote:
Stalife, FireZerg, OptikZero, Drewbie, vilechance, vvvhasuu, RoyalFlush, Wintermelon, Saikou, 4k.warden, blur, ganon, neans, validitysaga, wannabe, zaizai, and theres more that I cant even remember.
Not to mention all the mid-high masters.
Should be good, but I dont think alberta can field anything quite as strong. I would be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong. Just means our beautiful country is even stronger than I originally thought.
Make it Winner's League format and ClashIgetLaid will sweep everyone on BC team.
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On December 01 2011 07:39 Clonze wrote:you deserve negative fans for this.
Oh I thought this thread is for troll and get some fans.
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On December 01 2011 08:05 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:18 Hasuu wrote:
Stalife, FireZerg, OptikZero, Drewbie, vilechance, vvvhasuu, RoyalFlush, Wintermelon, Saikou, 4k.warden, blur, ganon, neans, validitysaga, wannabe, zaizai, and theres more that I cant even remember.
Not to mention all the mid-high masters.
Should be good, but I dont think alberta can field anything quite as strong. I would be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong. Just means our beautiful country is even stronger than I originally thought. Make it Winner's League format and ClashIgetLaid will sweep everyone on BC team.
who?
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On December 01 2011 10:18 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 08:05 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 01 2011 05:18 Hasuu wrote:
Stalife, FireZerg, OptikZero, Drewbie, vilechance, vvvhasuu, RoyalFlush, Wintermelon, Saikou, 4k.warden, blur, ganon, neans, validitysaga, wannabe, zaizai, and theres more that I cant even remember.
Not to mention all the mid-high masters.
Should be good, but I dont think alberta can field anything quite as strong. I would be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong. Just means our beautiful country is even stronger than I originally thought. Make it Winner's League format and ClashIgetLaid will sweep everyone on BC team. who?
Considering tQSky and I are the only Clash members in Canada, I'm assuming he's referring to me. Post of the year candidate if you ask me.
On December 01 2011 10:02 tQWannaBe wrote:Oh I thought this thread is for troll and get some fans.
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Sky is from Toronto Chad O_O
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On December 01 2011 11:18 ariK wrote:
Sky is from Toronto Chad O_O
I always confuse baconz and ringrong, the two youngins.
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Shit you're write. They did right an article on Edmonton's scene.
[edit] your**
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kids will be kids!
edit: notice they dodged the fact of the matter....that edmontons on MLG front page....deal with it
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Common guys now you are just looking for an excuse
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On December 01 2011 13:23 tQArchaic wrote:
kids will be kids!
edit: notice they dodged the fact of the matter....that edmontons on MLG front page....deal with it
What do you think this is, TvP?
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Imo we should all be practicing to beat BC since atm they are quite a strong team That tournament has apparently already been planned, so no reason not to practice up lol. I understand that archaic and drone have contrasting viewpoints, but yeesh let's all get better at starcraft. Not to take a side or anything since both of you want to represent Edmonton well, but D: I think archaic stretched the fact a bit. We are not the strong enough to confidently say we are the strongest province in Canada. On the flip side, I think that he's just trying to hype Alberta starcraft up, which benefits everyone! I see no wrong in that, as opinions can be opinions, but if we are still going to post on this thread, direct all the provocative beef-flinging at BC who will be coming hard in a little over 2 months
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On top of an sc2 match we should also hold a contest between AB and BC to see which team's players are more handsome.
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On December 01 2011 14:35 Chairman Ray wrote:
On top of an sc2 match we should also hold a contest between AB and BC to see which team's players are more handsome.
That's done. We have FireZerg aka the Hair Zerg.
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On December 01 2011 13:23 tQArchaic wrote:
kids will be kids!
edit: notice they dodged the fact of the matter....that edmontons on MLG front page....deal with it
hi mlg put our diamond player on their front page
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On December 01 2011 15:12 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 14:35 Chairman Ray wrote:
On top of an sc2 match we should also hold a contest between AB and BC to see which team's players are more handsome. That's done. We have FireZerg aka the Hair Zerg.
bo5 plz
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On December 01 2011 15:14 Validity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 13:23 tQArchaic wrote:
kids will be kids!
edit: notice they dodged the fact of the matter....that edmontons on MLG front page....deal with it hi mlg put our diamond player on their front page
Not to mention the edmonton article is full of misinformation....
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And that is exactly why we should focus on crushing BC first
Btw name some of your players again who are FROM BC (half the posts here give me false info on who is actually from your province lol), I wanna see how our rosters stack up against each other if you don't mind
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NOVAstalife ValiditySAGA FourKWarden tQWannaBe
coLFireZerg RoyalFlush Saikou VPChAnCe
FXOpTiKzErO vVvHasuu
11th player... SCAZaiZai/Imagine/Raigeki ... xSixNeans/coLGanon if they become active... coLdrewbie if he travels back here.
These players are all from BC and have all been mentioned before. Only confusion were the Seattle players that made the trip for our last LAN.
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is optikzero back in BC? Isnt he across the world with fxo?
edmonton was on the front page...children its ok if your cities just aren't quite as good as us!
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On December 01 2011 15:14 Validity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 13:23 tQArchaic wrote:
kids will be kids!
edit: notice they dodged the fact of the matter....that edmontons on MLG front page....deal with it hi mlg put our diamond player on their front page
Lolol ♥
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Also @Archaic, optikzero has been back in BC since early August! He was only in Korea for about 1.5 months. He recently won the local cG tournament despite not playing anywhere near as much as he has in the past ♥
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On December 02 2011 09:46 tQArchaic wrote:
is optikzero back in BC? Isnt he across the world with fxo?
edmonton was on the front page...children its ok if your cities just aren't quite as good as us!
=/
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I love all this banter. Making us all look like jackasses. Everyone should STFU about all this shit. The only really good Canadian is HuK (If you can even count him as Canadian anymore). You're all essentially arguing who the best Arena Football player is. You're all bad. You're all stupid. Stop arguing and making us all look like fools.
Edit: Hey ailuj I spell my name backwards too <3<3<3
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On December 03 2011 14:15 kcaz wrote:I love all this banter. Making us all look like jackasses. Everyone should STFU about all this shit. The only really good Canadian is HuK (If you can even count him as Canadian anymore). You're all essentially arguing who the best Arena Football player is. You're all bad. You're all stupid. Stop arguing and making us all look like fools. Edit: Hey ailuj I spell my name backwards too <3<3<3
You guys should date.
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On December 03 2011 14:15 kcaz wrote:I love all this banter. Making us all look like jackasses. Everyone should STFU about all this shit. The only really good Canadian is HuK (If you can even count him as Canadian anymore). You're all essentially arguing who the best Arena Football player is. You're all bad. You're all stupid. Stop arguing and making us all look like fools. Edit: Hey ailuj I spell my name backwards too <3<3<3
Not sure if troll, or didn't get so much love from parents as a kid....
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It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best.
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yep, pretty sure didnt get enough lovin.
This thread is made of win and... flames? Stoked to see this go down. I believe in you Alberta!
Edit: You know what this thread needs more of? MOAR RAGE HYPE! Calgary sucks and their players are awful. But even worse than calgary is all of BC.
sup?
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On December 03 2011 16:46 kcaz wrote:
It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best.
Ok I'm sincerely sorry I doubted you as a troll. I really thought you were, and hoped you were.
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ChAnCe can boast some exceptional results and he's from BC.
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On December 03 2011 17:14 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 16:46 kcaz wrote:
It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best. Ok I'm sincerely sorry I doubted you as a troll. I really thought you were, and hoped you were.
You mad? What do you think this is TvP?
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On December 03 2011 17:31 kcaz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 17:14 CanucksJC wrote:On December 03 2011 16:46 kcaz wrote:
It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best. Ok I'm sincerely sorry I doubted you as a troll. I really thought you were, and hoped you were. You mad? What do you think this is TvP?
No, I actually feel sorry for you.
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Actually, Zack -- can I call you Zack? Too bad -- I think DDE is a fantastic player, so learn yourself some Starcraft.
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Just ignore Zack please, any thoughts that you might have about a disscussion with him are pretty much a waist of time. If you disagree with Zack he will just call you names and have no real argument.
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On December 03 2011 20:10 MuATaran wrote:
Just ignore Zack please, any thoughts that you might have about a disscussion with him are pretty much a waist of time. If you disagree with Zack he will just call you names and have no real argument.
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On December 03 2011 16:46 kcaz wrote:
It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best.
you are the biggest troll ever seen in my life. What division are you in plastic? learn some manners and dont use some1 as an example when making comparison jesus.
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I'd argue that DDE is very good. He might not be MVP level, but still an amazing player. Also, many of the guys listed have won multiple online tourneys with a cash prize. Stalife, Mkengyn, etc... Just check their tlpd
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Golly jeez, you guys are so right. I see the light now. I was totally so wrong. All these amateur players should go qualify for code B, they'll make it EZ moad. I can't believe I even had my own opinion, guess my common sense failed me. I'm so, so, so, sorry. You guys are the bonjwas of debate. I can't believe I even though I could convey any sense. I'll just stick to watching soccer. Sorry boys.
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On December 04 2011 01:43 dde wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 16:46 kcaz wrote:
It's not a troll. And I think I got the accepted amount of love from my birthgiver.
But seriously. You guys are idiots. Noone who has been mentioned in this thread is any good. Archaic, Sarovati, or anyone for that matter (sorry for the singling out, nothing personal) is any good. They're great, compared to the other small fish in their tank, but thats it. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise IMO is actually so ignorant to the fact that they're terrible. ZOMG they took a few games off pros on ladder, or maybe a BoX once, it doesnt make them good. Look at the top ranked players, NesTea may lose a game, or series to *insert terrible player here* but that doesnt mean that that player is any good. Everyone is capable of winning once in a while so dont inflate your ego. DDE beat Idra in that tournament once, but do you really think he's any good? Ask yourself honestly, if youre gonna post in this thread, are you any good? Because unless you really are that arogant or ridiculously ignorant that answer is no. If they were any good, theyd post some results, but I dont see any. And dont BS yourself in thinking that winning a local 30 or whatever person LAN is an accomplishment, because it isnt. When you make a notable place in a semi-notable tournament - not even an MLG, but win a few Playhems, or even place decently high or SOMETHING, but noone does! And yet you all worship their mediocrity. You can argue all day that hockey players in the AHL are any good, but at the end of the day, theyre in the AHL for a reason. If they were good, theyd be in the NHL. Just open your eyes. Lmfao. The people arguing in this thread arent even at an AHL level, theyre at a local beer league level, at best. you are the biggest troll ever seen in my life. What division are you in plastic? learn some manners and dont use some1 as an example when making comparison jesus.
TBH, I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything personal, I just thought you were a prime example to my point. And you are 100% right, I shouldn't be using individuals to make my points, and I am truthfully appologetic. I'll be more thoughtful in the future.
But on a serious note, I'm not going to stop having an opinion. If you want to consider yourself a professional, you should be able to take criticism, especially from trolls. In law, professionals are held to professional standards for a reason. And I am entitled to make any comparison I want. You're right when I shouldn't be using individuals for comparisons, but why are you so defensive? Am I not right? If you were a top caliber player you'd have the results so that "trolls" like me wouldnt be using you for my comparisons. And what does it matter what level of play I am? I dont go around saying Im anything. Im the first person to say I (myself) am shit, and no good at this game. But I also dont play hockey, and I know that the Columbus Bluejackets are a shitty team. Just because they are professionals, does not mean they are top class professionals like say the Redwings for an example. There are shitty doctors mind you.... but they are professionals none the less. But I'm not gonna stop having an opinion, although maybe I shouldnt single people out and voice it publicly, but its not going to change the fact that there are levels of professionals.
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ROFL DDE PLASTIC LEAGUE HAHAHAHAHA
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so when this going to be happen,
btw, why not all the Edmonton players come to UBC CUP and make prize pool bigger ? :D
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Not really understanding the edm vs calgary thing, we need all the help we can get if a match is being done with ab vs bc. I feel our top players can give many of the BC players a run for their money but we definitely need help and wins from the mid tier players if we have any chance of making it a match let alone even thinking of winning. I feel confident against the terrans in BC but chance, royalflush and optik i've simply struggled against every game i've played against them. They've very good players, and while I may have bmed them on ladder (hope not, apologize if I did), I respect their skills.
BC has something many places lack, which is a deep lineup that does not dropoff after the first few players. Theres a reason their CSL team alone essentially dominated last season which is when the format went to a bo7 in the playoffs, teams couldn't keep up with the depth in their lineup. I was stoked to play well in my games and pull it out in the csl in the first half of this season, but in a best of 7 if we play them in the playoffs will be extremely hard and require top notch play off all of our players. Now take that for this showmatch if it goes on and extrapolate that like x10.
Hell, im just excited to hopefully show some great games against players I respect really highly when i come across them on ladder. Actually, in my case I always put some crazy goals, I plan to be put up first and all-kill BC 22-0!
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how can alberta even be compared to bc? xD alberta got players like KingDime, Mkengyn, ClashIgetlaid, JasonX...
what has bc got to compare? no protoss as good as dime, no zerg as good as mkengyn and no terran close to JasonX..
And ClashIgetlaid is just insane
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On December 04 2011 10:22 snowroller1 wrote:
how can alberta even be compared to bc? xD alberta got players like KingDime, Mkengyn, ClashIgetlaid, JasonX...
what has bc got to compare? no protoss as good as dime, no zerg as good as mkengyn and no terran close to JasonX..
And ClashIgetlaid is just insane
errrr, btw who are they?
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On December 04 2011 10:22 snowroller1 wrote:
how can alberta even be compared to bc? xD alberta got players like KingDime, Mkengyn, ClashIgetlaid, JasonX...
what has bc got to compare? no protoss as good as dime, no zerg as good as mkengyn and no terran close to JasonX..
And ClashIgetlaid is just insane
you've clearly never been to a Vancouver LAN.
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On December 15 2011 21:17 tQWannaBe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 10:22 snowroller1 wrote:
how can alberta even be compared to bc? xD alberta got players like KingDime, Mkengyn, ClashIgetlaid, JasonX...
what has bc got to compare? no protoss as good as dime, no zerg as good as mkengyn and no terran close to JasonX..
And ClashIgetlaid is just insane errrr, btw who are they?
Jungho, that's just my friend from EU trying to troll this thread. But you know I take you down ezpz
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On December 22 2011 15:16 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:17 tQWannaBe wrote:On December 04 2011 10:22 snowroller1 wrote:
how can alberta even be compared to bc? xD alberta got players like KingDime, Mkengyn, ClashIgetlaid, JasonX...
what has bc got to compare? no protoss as good as dime, no zerg as good as mkengyn and no terran close to JasonX..
And ClashIgetlaid is just insane errrr, btw who are they? Jungho, that's just my friend from EU trying to troll this thread. But you know I take you down ezpz
and where you lost to me with 4 banshees when I was hung over before night
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6933/stabbing.png)
