On November 01 2011 20:45 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Idra debated this issue with day9 on SOTG couple months ago, the issue was that a zerg can't scout because of marines on the edge of the base.. day9 lost the debate because he couldn't explain how a zerg could scout. Nestea vs SC today showed that Idra was actually correct.

That was a dumb analysis.

First of all, Day9 didn't lose because he didn't even partake in an actual discussion right then. His answer was that he'd need more information before he could definitively deduct anything.

Also, saying that one game showed something correct is laughable.

The only thing this game showed us that Nesteas OL was millimeters from scouting the starports because they were close to the edge, and he spotted the banshees very early but didn't react properly.

You need to be slapped.

Screw you, dick. Idra won the debate because day[9] knew he couldn't win and refused to engage. "Need more information", what the fuck? What more information do you need after professionally analysing and casting sc2 for months? If idra and the zerg that "needs to be slapped" (such a dick comment, seriously) are such retards, then how does zerg scout that when the terran is walled off and has marines patrolling the edges of the base?

I don't even need to engage in an argument on zerg scouting. I'm talking about the argument day9 and Idra had ages ago, and yes, anyone saying "Idra won" is a blatant fanboy, because no serious argument took place to begin with, and they do need to get slapped.

Idra said that either zerg need to be able to scout (or deduct/eliminate builds), or they need a build that can react to all terran builds.
Day9 refused to accept that, without saying why. You must either hate Idra or love Day9 to not see that it wasnt Day9s proudest moment.

Idra's ideal game would be where terran can't put on any aggression of any form. The guy whined about terran in sc1 for christ's sake.

And? Just because Idra whines a lot, doesnt change the fact that the premise he said up was true, or atleast partly true, and day9 simply said he didnt accept it without arguing why. I love day9 as much as the next guy, but he did seem a bit silly in that discussion.

Day9 didn't want to accept because he wanted specific examples of games with replays to look through. He didn't want to make a claim without being able to back it up with evidence.

that's exactly the problem of day9's analysis, not every game you can scout that key tech building because of the overlord placement and the angle it flies in and the buildings it was hiding.
Pro-players can fake a 3 gate with warping 3 units a time to deny the overlord etc

You could argue you don't need to scout the building itself to be able to scout. I'm not saying people are right or wrong about the lack of scouting abilities but it's not as clear cut as you put it. Not by far.

HwangjaeTerran

Finland5967 Posts

November 01 2011 12:15 GMT

#2338

On November 01 2011 21:14 anrimayu wrote:

Show nested quote +

that was such a marine/tank cheese by sC. That's very easy to pull off and very hard to predict.

lol

Yeah, and because of mules there is no risk to it either.

babysimba

10466 Posts

November 01 2011 12:15 GMT

#2339

On November 01 2011 21:12 Babru wrote:
I dont get why mapmakers dont consistently make maps that have air space that allow air harass etc, regarding those mutas getting trapped and killed.

I dont think its a thought out design that certain maps lack it, i just think its kinda random.

As zerg i would rather have a map that has no air space though, so much easier to spore up against drop defence than to plant 5 spines per hatch.

SuperFanBoy

New Zealand1068 Posts

November 01 2011 12:15 GMT

#2340

On November 01 2011 21:12 polybios wrote:

Show nested quote +

anyone?

you can sacrifice 2 overlords and still spot nothing, he could of put those 2 ports at the south of his base and 2 overlords would die with no information. Also you need superior map control to be able to put those 2 overlords in scouting positions in the first place.. At the very high level players are aware of their opponents overlord positions, good players often send marines across the map to pick off an overlord in early game.