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To much marines I think, the colossi will fall but not before killing everything.
Unless he retreats from vikings and lose his colossus without firing a shoot :o
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United States15275 Posts
Axslav goes down without a fight.
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Impressive micro by BeastyQT
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
beautiful game from Beasty.
really nice series from him, even if he did get caught with a late siege when meching in game 2.
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beasty pretty good :d nice build
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On October 31 2011 05:12 MrCon wrote:
To much marines I think, the colossi will fall but not before killing everything.
Unless he retreats from vikings and lose his colossus without firing a shoot :o
his build is actually very clever, with the early starports he can get his viking count high rly early and justify the mass marine.. making gate armies useless.
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On October 31 2011 05:06 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 04:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 31 2011 04:47 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:32 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:27 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:22 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:19 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:17 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:10 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
he will never change How would you react if someone opened 11/12 against you and put down two bunkers in such a fashion that you cannot attack the marines that are hiding behind them? Would that put a smile on your face? Its extremely annoying and abuses the shit out of melee units. You cant attack it with melee units, and spines arent able to kill bunkers that are being repaired (remember the game boxer vs idra at the last mlg where idra had 3 spines attacking the bunker? it didnt even budge). What should zerg build to destroy that bunker? 6 spines? 10? Building so many spines is game anyway. Its an annoying rush and takes alot away from the game in my opinion. All you have to do to defend this is to drone scout. Idra deserved to loose. Even the ones that do drone scout will build the hatch before pool and die anyways, even if they scout it afterwards. It comes very early and you cant really count on scouting it before you put down that hatch, because 15 population is extremely early. Sorry no, I have seen other zergs defend it with ease. Stop saying you cannot defend it. As long as you have a good micro, there is no reason not to defend it, not on this map where you are guaranteed to scout in time... if you scout. You are comparing different scenarios with each other. Show me one game where a zerg has defended 11/11 (or any similar early bunker rush) on meta close by air if the bunkers are put in exactly that fashion. Unless the zerg luckily runs into the proxy rax he will hatch first and die. You wont find a single occasion because the games you are referring to are on other maps where it is entirely possible to NOT scout at all and still defend it with ease. Stop watching Idra, start watching other zerg streams and you will see it. He asks for a specific example. Either supply an example or don't bother responding with blanket, meaningless statements. Dude, I told him where to find the answer on how to defend it. Why the hell should I bother searching for an example where the zergs defend it after letting the bunker get started, while the usual solution is to not let the bunkers start in those position to begin with. Your comment just lack any reasoning. Is someone ask "find me a replay where the zerg defends after loosing his expo and his pool". I won't bother searching such a replay, but I will still say that the zerg could have defended it.
Scouting proxy's is extremely difficult when you've got a gigantic amount of space to do it in. Yes, scouting in hopes of finding them would be a good idea. But given the earliness of the rax and the sheer # of places to put it, sending out a drone is no guarantee.
Couple that with the difficulty of pulling drones from your main and getting them there in time, and that's the type of result you get. Yes, there are ways to guarantee protection from that type of rush, but the amount of effort/resources need to block it will put you behind if it's not real pressure. It's a gamble, as are a lot of things in SC. It's easy to defend if you expect it. But if you expect it and it doesn't come, you're now behind. The issue that most people have with 11/12 n' whatnot is the amount of pressure and ability to outright win games if it's not expected.
However, IdrA should expect bunker rushes more often given people's willingness to do it against him over and over. Hell, even when Rain, Puma, and MkP were taking questions I think all of the admitted that 11/12 (or something similar, maybe just 2 rax) was the best TvZ strat. He should certainly expect it more than he does, even at the cost of some advantage he might gain elsewhere.
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The buzz about Happy was mainly because of his sick marine splitting video ^^
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On October 31 2011 05:12 MrCon wrote:
To much marines I think, the colossi will fall but not before killing everything.
Unless he retreats from vikings and lose his colossus without firing a shoot :o
o.O lol ye >< nice game but I can never make that strat work on shak =(
on another note LOL at axslav using DeMu's alt account
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On October 31 2011 05:13 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:12 MrCon wrote:
To much marines I think, the colossi will fall but not before killing everything.
Unless he retreats from vikings and lose his colossus without firing a shoot :o
his build is actually very clever, with the early starports he can get his viking count high rly early and justify the mass marine.. making gate armies useless.
Yeah, I typed that before/during the battle and kept it like it despite things not going at all like I was thinking :D
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Puma should take this 2-0
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On October 31 2011 05:05 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 04:47 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:32 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:27 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:22 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:19 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:17 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:10 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
he will never change How would you react if someone opened 11/12 against you and put down two bunkers in such a fashion that you cannot attack the marines that are hiding behind them? Would that put a smile on your face? Its extremely annoying and abuses the shit out of melee units. You cant attack it with melee units, and spines arent able to kill bunkers that are being repaired (remember the game boxer vs idra at the last mlg where idra had 3 spines attacking the bunker? it didnt even budge). What should zerg build to destroy that bunker? 6 spines? 10? Building so many spines is game anyway. Its an annoying rush and takes alot away from the game in my opinion. All you have to do to defend this is to drone scout. Idra deserved to loose. Even the ones that do drone scout will build the hatch before pool and die anyways, even if they scout it afterwards. It comes very early and you cant really count on scouting it before you put down that hatch, because 15 population is extremely early. Sorry no, I have seen other zergs defend it with ease. Stop saying you cannot defend it. As long as you have a good micro, there is no reason not to defend it, not on this map where you are guaranteed to scout in time... if you scout. You are comparing different scenarios with each other. Show me one game where a zerg has defended 11/11 (or any similar early bunker rush) on meta close by air if the bunkers are put in exactly that fashion. Unless the zerg luckily runs into the proxy rax he will hatch first and die. You wont find a single occasion because the games you are referring to are on other maps where it is entirely possible to NOT scout at all and still defend it with ease. Stop watching Idra, start watching other zerg streams and you will see it. Idra simply does not have the right mentality to improve, he will keep loosing to it again and again, while others have found solution against it. If you can't defend without scouting it, just scout the dam thing. You don't have to be a genius to come up with the idea. And you know what, if you scout it, you can prevent the bunkers to be place "in exactly that fashion". OMG, I'm sure you've never thought about that. I have seen stephano die to exactly that rush, i have seen nerchio die to exactly that rush, i have seen ret die to exactly that rush, i have seen nestea die to exactly that rush. What is your point? On some maps, i have seen idra smash that rush, stephano smash that rush, nerchio smash that rush, ret smash that rush, nestea smash that rush. Its still a terrible strategy that has the potential of taking away from the game and make for terrible games and it is happening quite frequently. The opening makes for terrible games and i dont support it, i suppose you are a supporter of terrible games.
Stop lying, or give the example you are taking about. It can only be in tournaments since they removed metalopolis from the map pool with the last barracks change (unless you saw it this week for all those players ?)
On October 31 2011 05:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:06 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 31 2011 04:47 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:32 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:27 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:22 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:19 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:17 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:10 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
he will never change How would you react if someone opened 11/12 against you and put down two bunkers in such a fashion that you cannot attack the marines that are hiding behind them? Would that put a smile on your face? Its extremely annoying and abuses the shit out of melee units. You cant attack it with melee units, and spines arent able to kill bunkers that are being repaired (remember the game boxer vs idra at the last mlg where idra had 3 spines attacking the bunker? it didnt even budge). What should zerg build to destroy that bunker? 6 spines? 10? Building so many spines is game anyway. Its an annoying rush and takes alot away from the game in my opinion. All you have to do to defend this is to drone scout. Idra deserved to loose. Even the ones that do drone scout will build the hatch before pool and die anyways, even if they scout it afterwards. It comes very early and you cant really count on scouting it before you put down that hatch, because 15 population is extremely early. Sorry no, I have seen other zergs defend it with ease. Stop saying you cannot defend it. As long as you have a good micro, there is no reason not to defend it, not on this map where you are guaranteed to scout in time... if you scout. You are comparing different scenarios with each other. Show me one game where a zerg has defended 11/11 (or any similar early bunker rush) on meta close by air if the bunkers are put in exactly that fashion. Unless the zerg luckily runs into the proxy rax he will hatch first and die. You wont find a single occasion because the games you are referring to are on other maps where it is entirely possible to NOT scout at all and still defend it with ease. Stop watching Idra, start watching other zerg streams and you will see it. He asks for a specific example. Either supply an example or don't bother responding with blanket, meaningless statements. Dude, I told him where to find the answer on how to defend it. Why the hell should I bother searching for an example where the zergs defend it after letting the bunker get started, while the usual solution is to not let the bunkers start in those position to begin with. Your comment just lack any reasoning. Is someone ask "find me a replay where the zerg defends after loosing his expo and his pool". I won't bother searching such a replay, but I will still say that the zerg could have defended it. Scouting proxy's is extremely difficult when you've got a gigantic amount of space to do it in. Yes, scouting in hopes of finding them would be a good idea. But given the earliness of the rax and the sheer # of places to put it, sending out a drone is no guarantee.
On meta with no close spawn, you are almost guaranteed to scout it. Your point doesn't hold.
And, zerg can afford to pull drones against it, because the terran is himself set back by the build.
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Lol I think Beastyqt is a good player, but Happy is in another league, these two commentators are completely off here dissing Happy like if he were top 100 AM terran or something..
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On October 31 2011 05:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:06 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 31 2011 04:47 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:32 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:27 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:22 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:19 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:17 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:10 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
he will never change How would you react if someone opened 11/12 against you and put down two bunkers in such a fashion that you cannot attack the marines that are hiding behind them? Would that put a smile on your face? Its extremely annoying and abuses the shit out of melee units. You cant attack it with melee units, and spines arent able to kill bunkers that are being repaired (remember the game boxer vs idra at the last mlg where idra had 3 spines attacking the bunker? it didnt even budge). What should zerg build to destroy that bunker? 6 spines? 10? Building so many spines is game anyway. Its an annoying rush and takes alot away from the game in my opinion. All you have to do to defend this is to drone scout. Idra deserved to loose. Even the ones that do drone scout will build the hatch before pool and die anyways, even if they scout it afterwards. It comes very early and you cant really count on scouting it before you put down that hatch, because 15 population is extremely early. Sorry no, I have seen other zergs defend it with ease. Stop saying you cannot defend it. As long as you have a good micro, there is no reason not to defend it, not on this map where you are guaranteed to scout in time... if you scout. You are comparing different scenarios with each other. Show me one game where a zerg has defended 11/11 (or any similar early bunker rush) on meta close by air if the bunkers are put in exactly that fashion. Unless the zerg luckily runs into the proxy rax he will hatch first and die. You wont find a single occasion because the games you are referring to are on other maps where it is entirely possible to NOT scout at all and still defend it with ease. Stop watching Idra, start watching other zerg streams and you will see it. He asks for a specific example. Either supply an example or don't bother responding with blanket, meaningless statements. Dude, I told him where to find the answer on how to defend it. Why the hell should I bother searching for an example where the zergs defend it after letting the bunker get started, while the usual solution is to not let the bunkers start in those position to begin with. Your comment just lack any reasoning. Is someone ask "find me a replay where the zerg defends after loosing his expo and his pool". I won't bother searching such a replay, but I will still say that the zerg could have defended it. Scouting proxy's is extremely difficult when you've got a gigantic amount of space to do it in. Yes, scouting in hopes of finding them would be a good idea. But given the earliness of the rax and the sheer # of places to put it, sending out a drone is no guarantee. Couple that with the difficulty of pulling drones from your main and getting them there in time, and that's the type of result you get. Yes, there are ways to guarantee protection from that type of rush, but the amount of effort/resources need to block it will put you behind if it's not real pressure. It's a gamble, as are a lot of things in SC. It's easy to defend if you expect it. But if you expect it and it doesn't come, you're now behind. The issue that most people have with 11/12 n' whatnot is the amount of pressure and ability to outright win games if it's not expected. However, IdrA should expect bunker rushes more often given people's willingness to do it against him over and over. Hell, even when Rain, Puma, and MkP were taking questions I think all of the admitted that 11/12 (or something similar, maybe just 2 rax) was the best TvZ strat. He should certainly expect it more than he does, even at the cost of some advantage he might gain elsewhere.
the close air positions are a little special, and you only need to scout whether he takes a gas or not, if you don't see one you better prepare for 2 rax bunkerrush
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On October 31 2011 05:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 05:06 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On October 31 2011 04:47 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:32 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:27 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:22 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:19 Elean wrote:On October 31 2011 04:17 gh0un wrote:On October 31 2011 04:10 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
he will never change How would you react if someone opened 11/12 against you and put down two bunkers in such a fashion that you cannot attack the marines that are hiding behind them? Would that put a smile on your face? Its extremely annoying and abuses the shit out of melee units. You cant attack it with melee units, and spines arent able to kill bunkers that are being repaired (remember the game boxer vs idra at the last mlg where idra had 3 spines attacking the bunker? it didnt even budge). What should zerg build to destroy that bunker? 6 spines? 10? Building so many spines is game anyway. Its an annoying rush and takes alot away from the game in my opinion. All you have to do to defend this is to drone scout. Idra deserved to loose. Even the ones that do drone scout will build the hatch before pool and die anyways, even if they scout it afterwards. It comes very early and you cant really count on scouting it before you put down that hatch, because 15 population is extremely early. Sorry no, I have seen other zergs defend it with ease. Stop saying you cannot defend it. As long as you have a good micro, there is no reason not to defend it, not on this map where you are guaranteed to scout in time... if you scout. You are comparing different scenarios with each other. Show me one game where a zerg has defended 11/11 (or any similar early bunker rush) on meta close by air if the bunkers are put in exactly that fashion. Unless the zerg luckily runs into the proxy rax he will hatch first and die. You wont find a single occasion because the games you are referring to are on other maps where it is entirely possible to NOT scout at all and still defend it with ease. Stop watching Idra, start watching other zerg streams and you will see it. He asks for a specific example. Either supply an example or don't bother responding with blanket, meaningless statements. Dude, I told him where to find the answer on how to defend it. Why the hell should I bother searching for an example where the zergs defend it after letting the bunker get started, while the usual solution is to not let the bunkers start in those position to begin with. Your comment just lack any reasoning. Is someone ask "find me a replay where the zerg defends after loosing his expo and his pool". I won't bother searching such a replay, but I will still say that the zerg could have defended it. Scouting proxy's is extremely difficult when you've got a gigantic amount of space to do it in. Yes, scouting in hopes of finding them would be a good idea. But given the earliness of the rax and the sheer # of places to put it, sending out a drone is no guarantee. Couple that with the difficulty of pulling drones from your main and getting them there in time, and that's the type of result you get. Yes, there are ways to guarantee protection from that type of rush, but the amount of effort/resources need to block it will put you behind if it's not real pressure. It's a gamble, as are a lot of things in SC. It's easy to defend if you expect it. But if you expect it and it doesn't come, you're now behind. The issue that most people have with 11/12 n' whatnot is the amount of pressure and ability to outright win games if it's not expected. However, IdrA should expect bunker rushes more often given people's willingness to do it against him over and over. Hell, even when Rain, Puma, and MkP were taking questions I think all of the admitted that 11/12 (or something similar, maybe just 2 rax) was the best TvZ strat. He should certainly expect it more than he does, even at the cost of some advantage he might gain elsewhere.
atleast one thing i know for sure, When idrA will go to the Slayers house he will never lose to a bunker rush again ;P
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On October 31 2011 05:13 MrCon wrote:
The buzz about Happy was mainly because of his sick marine splitting video ^^
And that he was no1 in EU ladder for few months.
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On October 31 2011 05:12 MrCon wrote:
To much marines I think, the colossi will fall but not before killing everything.
Unless he retreats from vikings and lose his colossus without firing a shoot :o
nice analysis.
now we see one of the best terrans (PuMa) playing
His opponent would be the best terran in the world, if there would be exactly 1 strategy for all races and the maximum bases were 2.
Btw: how did kas beat idra?
was it macrogames? was it close? IdrA is a ZvT beast and happy loses to nerchio and stpehano often... didnt expect that one
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who lost the 1st set for eg?
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So.. what was the excuse for Idra losing 2 in a row against Kas?
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On October 31 2011 05:15 s4life wrote:
Lol I think Beastyqt is a good player, but Happy is in another league, these two commentators are completely off here dissing Happy like if he were top 100 AM terran or something..
Happy was overhyped and hasn't been performing up to par recently imo.
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EPT
