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On November 08 2011 19:40 coloursheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:35 SeaSwift wrote:Please don't discuss balance in the LR thread. It happens all the time and people always get banned. There are quite a few threads in SC2 general where you can discuss balance, like here or here. we cant discuss the game that was just played? no one is being rude or attacking each other, its a simple discussion of what happened between MC and Sen and PvZ in general in the current state of the game
I wouldn't recommend it. While it's fine to discuss how a game went, using it as a springboard to discuss a matchup in general leads to the banhammers being taken out, normally. But I don't want to backseat mod, I just don't want to see people banned for discussing stuff in the wrong place.
My own opinion? MC made minimal mistakes, but partly due to the metagame and partly due to PvZ balance he lost horribly. 3 months ago nobody would have gone for light Roach/ling pressure into Mutas.
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sen doing a good job defending but antiga non cross pos is pretty hard
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looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance (of course, MKP did take MC out 2-1 in group stages anyway, so probably wasn't that big a threat with MC's current form anyway)
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impressive game by both. nice
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Wow, that was such a great game from both players!
Really liked that early build from Marineking.
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On November 08 2011 19:47 vndods wrote:
looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance.
No deal, Sen's got this.
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On November 08 2011 19:44 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:40 coloursheep wrote:On November 08 2011 19:35 SeaSwift wrote:Please don't discuss balance in the LR thread. It happens all the time and people always get banned. There are quite a few threads in SC2 general where you can discuss balance, like here or here. we cant discuss the game that was just played? no one is being rude or attacking each other, its a simple discussion of what happened between MC and Sen and PvZ in general in the current state of the game I wouldn't recommend it. While it's fine to discuss how a game went, using it as a springboard to discuss a matchup in general leads to the banhammers being taken out, normally. But I don't want to backseat mod, I just don't want to see people banned for discussing stuff in the wrong place. My own opinion? MC made minimal mistakes, but partly due to the metagame and partly due to PvZ balance he lost horribly. 3 months ago nobody would have gone for light Roach/ling pressure into Mutas.
i think you pretty much nailed what happened in those games, no one is saying MC played perfectly at least im not, but i dont think he losses were based upon his mistakes but current PvZ metagame and how protoss are struggling to deal with the multitude of strategies that zerg can use
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On November 08 2011 19:49 Phayt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:47 vndods wrote:
looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance. No deal, Sen's got this.
i doubt it. MKP TvZ is too good
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triple bunker rush and loses only 3 drones. sen really is a master of defence and crisis management
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after all that and just 3 drones killed ???
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3 drones killed by that........ wtf.
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Sen held that bunker pressure so fucking well, wow
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Same bunker rush that killed so many Zergs on that map D:
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On November 08 2011 19:50 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:49 Phayt wrote:On November 08 2011 19:47 vndods wrote:
looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance. No deal, Sen's got this. i doubt it. MKP TvZ is too good
sorry man, Sen>Everyone
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On November 08 2011 19:38 coloursheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:33 foxmeep wrote:On November 08 2011 19:29 coloursheep wrote:On November 08 2011 19:22 AutomatonOmega wrote:On November 08 2011 19:18 coloursheep wrote:On November 08 2011 19:14 Azarkon wrote:
And Sen gets his revenge on MC. Weak showing from MC, though. Maybe he's saving his best strats for Code S. Even so, Sen just seemed all over whatever he did have planned. Into the Ro4 for Sen. i think that is more of a showing of the current state of protoss rather than MC's ability, all protoss players are struggling at the moment, and with zergs not just going roach/hydra every game and using mutas and infestors protoss at the moment does not have a answer for that I disagree. Protoss have been buffed in the last three patches. 1.3 you could say this, but not now. what protoss buffs in the last few patches did mc not take advantage of in that series that cost him those games? immortal range? warp prism shields? that fact is protoss has huge trouble with early game zerg, they have to put on some pressure or the zerg gets to 80+ drones and then does whatever they want, but so few of the early protoss pressures are effective if the zerg is not too greedy and if they early pressure fails then the protoss is behind and is playing catch up for the rest of the game and even if they control well in engagements its still the zergs game to lose. what do you think? Game 1 - Losing 2 voids killing NOTHING eventually cost him the game. Keep them alive and you keep map control, a key reason to go stargate in the first place. Game 2 - Entirely lost by the massive zergling runby. its is very difficult for protoss to do anything with stargate openings and more because zergs are so used to them to killing one queen and 3 perhaps 4 overlords is not the worst thing in the world, however the more important thing is how this shows how difficult it is for protoss to open against zerg because early pressure is to difficult as zergs have adapted and know how to deal with them and they only work if the zerg makes a mistake or is too greedy with drones over units and going for econ builds allows the zerg to play their natural game which a protoss can let them do. if MC strategies were wrong how do you think he should have opened?
I don't think his strategy was wrong, his execution was. Those 2 void rays would have helped him secure his 3rd easier, and also given him some scouting info. Remember he also lost something like 4 zealots chasing a queen and not even killing it. Forcing those queens/lings was sufficient "damage" to move into the mid game. Not retreating cost him a lot of resources, 900/300? That's quite a big deal for nothing in return.
I agree that PvZ is by no means is easy to play and it's extremely important for Protoss to be efficient in the early game, but if they can get to mid-late game on equal footing with Zerg is becomes extremely difficult for the Zerg to win.
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On November 08 2011 19:55 Phayt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:50 vndods wrote:On November 08 2011 19:49 Phayt wrote:On November 08 2011 19:47 vndods wrote:
looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance. No deal, Sen's got this. i doubt it. MKP TvZ is too good sorry man, Sen>Everyone
lol okay 
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On November 08 2011 19:49 Phayt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:47 vndods wrote:
looks like MKP is gonna take this qualifier easy. i don't see moon or FD being a threat at all. MC was basically the only one that possibly had a chance. No deal, Sen's got this.
lol you were saying? MKP doesn't lose TvZ series sorry
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Even Sen acknowledging MKPs awesome micro.
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EPT
