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Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
- p4NDemik |
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:40 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:39 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote: Sen vs  MVPGame One on Antiga ShipyardIn the bottom right location is  Sen While in the bottom left is  MVP
1:10Extractor trick from sen
1:40Barracks on the way from MVP now taking his gas
2:30
Hatch first for sen followed by an extractor
3:00Orbital for MVP Pool on the way for Sen
3:30Factory on the way for MVP
5:10Roach warren and ling speed n the way for Sen MVP is expanding and getting hellions
6:50Tank production started for MVP as sen makes a lot of roaches
7:30
Natural being secured for MVP
Sen attacking with his roaches while building a lot of lings
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We're still on the Nestea copied Stephano topic?
Look guys, it's really simple.
The number of viable openings in ZvT aren't as numerous as people think, especially when viewed at the details of "zergling infestor with fast zergling upgrades before lair."
Consequently, it is logical to assume that many top-level Zergs, accustomed to thinking about the game, would come up with similar opening strategies, or even opening strategies that are nearly identical.
What is more important in this case, I think, is that Stephano came up with the same strategy that Nestea used to beat MVP, which shows that Stephano really understands this match up.
Of course, both players are capable of more strategies than this one.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:40 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:39 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:Sen vs MVPGame One on Antiga ShipyardIn the bottom right location is Sen While in the bottom left is MVP
1:10Extractor trick from sen
1:40Barracks on the way from MVP now taking his gas
2:30
Hatch first for sen followed by an extractor
3:00Orbital for MVP Pool on the way for Sen
3:30Factory on the way for MVP
5:10Roach warren and ling speed n the way for Sen MVP is expanding and getting hellions
6:50Tank production started for MVP as sen makes a lot of roaches
7:30Natural being secured for MVP Sen attacking with his roaches while building a lot of lings
8:00
Natural is forced to lift
Sen going for a bust but the supply depot is repaired just in time
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Should have sniped the tank on the right of the ramp and then leave.. -_-
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Oh wow, that was close...
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On October 23 2011 06:38 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:34 Roynalf wrote:On October 23 2011 06:31 Nash wrote:On October 23 2011 06:28 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 06:04 JJH777 wrote:On October 23 2011 06:02 Thurken wrote:On October 23 2011 05:45 Sc2Null wrote:On October 23 2011 05:44 cyclone25 wrote:On October 23 2011 05:42 MasterKush wrote:On October 23 2011 05:40 wats0n wrote:
[quote]
Guys (for everyone responding like you) learn to spot sarcasm... Just the same as Ling/Infestor not being the "Stephano" build. He may play that style but it doesn't mean he owns it, which is why its annoying to hear commentators like Day9 throwing it out there. I agree, ling/infestor was invented by Destiny actually. actually it was used in the beta before muta/bling came into popularity. He did not invent it. He was not the first pro player that used it. Players in the beta used similar strategies But that's not really the point. The point is that Stephano was the one that showed that this strategy was still viable against top players at this point of the game. This do not imply that Nestea surely copied him, but it is possible that Nestea reconsidered this strategy after ipl3... Considering Nestea used this exact strat and build against MVP in the ro8 of GSL a single day after IPL3 ended I highly doubt that. I highly doubt he even watched those games until after his match (if at all) he was definitely busy training to beat MVP. So what ? Stephano has been using this strat more than 2 months before IPL3, and since Nestea doesn't live in the US he should know about it. It's Stephano who invented this strategy, and showed it is viable at the highest level, noone else. Or maybe you can find a vod of someone getting a fast hive only to get adrenaline glands before Stephano ? People saying this build existed in the beta are stupid, because the game was so much different that it's simply not possible to be the same build/strategy. haha what? because nestea doesnt live in the US he should know about the strategy? hello logic, meet window. He means that ppl in USA are ignorant about starcraft scene at EU And people in the EU are equally ignorant about the US one. That's what time zones do. How many people in Europe had heard of Gatored before IEM?
Not that I agree with the guy but that's a really bad example. Theres a difference between being "OMG HES COMING OUT OF NOWHERE WTF SO GOOD" when Stephano does well internationally while having owning things up for months and people calling (back around TSL) Kas a newcomer, and "new star" when he at that time was probably the best terran in Europe (sadly no more TT), and then not knowing a guy whos only achievements prior to IEM was winning 3 NA cups (checked his liquidpedia).
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MVP giving the crowd some excitement, decides to repair his bunker when it's 1 hit from dying and letting in a shit tonne of units 
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On October 23 2011 06:34 habbey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:30 positron. wrote:On October 23 2011 06:28 habbey wrote:On October 23 2011 06:25 justinpal wrote:On October 23 2011 06:23 habbey wrote:On October 23 2011 06:20 ThisGS wrote:On October 23 2011 06:19 justinpal wrote:
Why are the semis and finals for both brackets Bo3 if they aren't streaming every match? for the same reason they use this mappool. Actually it has to stay at bo3 because it is double elim, otherwise it'd be really unfair to the players. So this is the right choice by blizzard. Why? The players would have to play more games? because of the inequality of some one "losing" once when it was bo3 vs now having to win two bo7s. See they only lost two games before and now have to makeup for it by winning 4. that is where the unfairness comes in. I don't think there has ever been a player came from the loser bracket and won the grand final. They should ditch this stupid format all together, the only thing it guarantees is an anti climatic "grand" final. What's the reasoning behind using this dumb format? while the loser bracket's winner might not win often, what it does for certain is guarantee the overall ranking of the players is much closer to actual skill level than a single elim. As double elim helps get rid of some luck based factors, such as uneven brackets. Of course double elim has this too, but it is less so than single elim.
That's a pretty horrible reason they use to back up this format. Luck is a part of any sports competition. Federer won the French Open because Nadal blew a winnable match. Why not just accept it and make the final actually good?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:42 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:40 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:39 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:Sen vs MVPGame One on Antiga ShipyardIn the bottom right location is Sen While in the bottom left is MVP
1:10Extractor trick from sen
1:40Barracks on the way from MVP now taking his gas
2:30
Hatch first for sen followed by an extractor
3:00Orbital for MVP Pool on the way for Sen
3:30Factory on the way for MVP
5:10Roach warren and ling speed n the way for Sen MVP is expanding and getting hellions
6:50Tank production started for MVP as sen makes a lot of roaches
7:30Natural being secured for MVP Sen attacking with his roaches while building a lot of lings
8:00Natural is forced to lift Sen going for a bust but the supply depot is repaired just in time
8:40
Macro hatch on the way for Sen
Siege tech has finished for MVP pushing back any further assaults from Sen
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On October 23 2011 06:28 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:04 JJH777 wrote:On October 23 2011 06:02 Thurken wrote:On October 23 2011 05:45 Sc2Null wrote:On October 23 2011 05:44 cyclone25 wrote:On October 23 2011 05:42 MasterKush wrote:On October 23 2011 05:40 wats0n wrote:On October 23 2011 05:39 Flowjo wrote:On October 23 2011 05:35 wats0n wrote:
Nestea used Nerchio style in game 2. Same build order and everything. Yea, I used Nerchio style to I guess cause I roach all in after 16 drones.... which is a standard all in. So I guess all the Zergs in the world all have Nerchio style to use when they wanna all in. Guys (for everyone responding like you) learn to spot sarcasm... Just the same as Ling/Infestor not being the "Stephano" build. He may play that style but it doesn't mean he owns it, which is why its annoying to hear commentators like Day9 throwing it out there. I agree, ling/infestor was invented by Destiny actually. actually it was used in the beta before muta/bling came into popularity. He did not invent it. He was not the first pro player that used it. Players in the beta used similar strategies But that's not really the point. The point is that Stephano was the one that showed that this strategy was still viable against top players at this point of the game. This do not imply that Nestea surely copied him, but it is possible that Nestea reconsidered this strategy after ipl3... Considering Nestea used this exact strat and build against MVP in the ro8 of GSL a single day after IPL3 ended I highly doubt that. I highly doubt he even watched those games until after his match (if at all) he was definitely busy training to beat MVP. So what ? Stephano has been using this strat more than 2 months before IPL3, and since Nestea doesn't live in the US he should know about it. It's Stephano who invented this strategy, and showed it is viable at the highest level, noone else. Or maybe you can find a vod of someone getting a fast hive only to get adrenaline glands before Stephano ? People saying this build existed in the beta are stupid, because the game was so much different that it's simply not possible to be the same build/strategy.
Stephano: "Oh ok, geez, alright already Elean. Yes you can suck my dick, let me get my my hair out of the way first.
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On October 23 2011 06:36 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:28 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 06:04 JJH777 wrote:On October 23 2011 06:02 Thurken wrote:On October 23 2011 05:45 Sc2Null wrote:On October 23 2011 05:44 cyclone25 wrote:On October 23 2011 05:42 MasterKush wrote:On October 23 2011 05:40 wats0n wrote:On October 23 2011 05:39 Flowjo wrote:On October 23 2011 05:35 wats0n wrote:
Nestea used Nerchio style in game 2. Same build order and everything. Yea, I used Nerchio style to I guess cause I roach all in after 16 drones.... which is a standard all in. So I guess all the Zergs in the world all have Nerchio style to use when they wanna all in. Guys (for everyone responding like you) learn to spot sarcasm... Just the same as Ling/Infestor not being the "Stephano" build. He may play that style but it doesn't mean he owns it, which is why its annoying to hear commentators like Day9 throwing it out there. I agree, ling/infestor was invented by Destiny actually. actually it was used in the beta before muta/bling came into popularity. He did not invent it. He was not the first pro player that used it. Players in the beta used similar strategies But that's not really the point. The point is that Stephano was the one that showed that this strategy was still viable against top players at this point of the game. This do not imply that Nestea surely copied him, but it is possible that Nestea reconsidered this strategy after ipl3... Considering Nestea used this exact strat and build against MVP in the ro8 of GSL a single day after IPL3 ended I highly doubt that. I highly doubt he even watched those games until after his match (if at all) he was definitely busy training to beat MVP. So what ? Stephano has been using this strat more than 2 months before IPL3, and since Nestea doesn't live in the US he should know about it. It's Stephano who invented this strategy, and showed it is viable at the highest level, noone else. Or maybe you can find a vod of someone getting a fast hive only to get adrenaline glands before Stephano ? People saying this build existed in the beta are stupid, because the game was so much different that it's simply not possible to be the same build/strategy. Stephano didn't invent it or popularize it. Tons of people have been doing it in tournaments for months. I've even tried it on ladder. I'm garbage but that just shows how widespread it is. Stephano has gotten a reputation for using it a lot, that's a lot different than creating it. As far as showing it at the highest level - I believe Dimaga used it against MVP many months ago. It doesn't get much higher level than using it against the best terran on the planet. (The game ended in a DC) Edit: I also remember dimaga and TLO doing mass lings with upgrades and infestors against terran in the beta.
I just wanted to point out that in an interview with Stephano, he stated that he used to watch and learn from Dimaga mostly.
Anyways, I believe Nestea if he says he made it himself. He has no problem complimenting foreigners (I remember his compliments to Dimaga) and giving credit where it's due so if he takes it for himself, then I believe him.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:42 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:40 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:39 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:37 Drazerk wrote:
[quote]
1:10
Extractor trick from sen
1:40Barracks on the way from MVP now taking his gas
2:30
Hatch first for sen followed by an extractor
3:00Orbital for MVP Pool on the way for Sen
3:30Factory on the way for MVP
5:10Roach warren and ling speed n the way for Sen MVP is expanding and getting hellions
6:50Tank production started for MVP as sen makes a lot of roaches
7:30Natural being secured for MVP Sen attacking with his roaches while building a lot of lings
8:00Natural is forced to lift Sen going for a bust but the supply depot is repaired just in time
8:40
Macro hatch on the way for Sen Siege tech has finished for MVP pushing back any further assaults from Sen
9:40
MVP pushing out with a tank marine push
Lair on the way for sen as he builds a lot of lings
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OMG nani lost. i lost all intreset in this tournament,..,
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should be GG soon.......i don't see how sen can break this
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:43 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 06:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:41 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:40 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:39 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:On October 23 2011 06:38 Drazerk wrote:
[quote]
1:40
Barracks on the way from MVP now taking his gas
2:30
Hatch first for sen followed by an extractor
3:00Orbital for MVP Pool on the way for Sen
3:30Factory on the way for MVP
5:10Roach warren and ling speed n the way for Sen MVP is expanding and getting hellions
6:50Tank production started for MVP as sen makes a lot of roaches
7:30Natural being secured for MVP Sen attacking with his roaches while building a lot of lings
8:00Natural is forced to lift Sen going for a bust but the supply depot is repaired just in time
8:40
Macro hatch on the way for Sen Siege tech has finished for MVP pushing back any further assaults from Sen
9:40MVP pushing out with a tank marine push Lair on the way for sen as he builds a lot of lings
10:20
Sen losing a lot of units
MVP takes out the roach warren
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At least Sen has a cool jacket
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EPT
