Blizzard announced details for Blizzcon. Most disappointing thing? Look at that absurd map pool lol. And they are probably using the version of Shattered Temple with close spawns still possible.
The StarCraft II tournament format adheres to a standard setup. All sixteen players have been seeded into a double-elimination bracket, to compete in a series of best-of-three matches. The first player to win two games will take a series. If a player loses a match, they’re not out yet, they instead move to the consolation bracket, where they could potentially come back to win the entire tournament. If a player loses two matches they are out of the running for the finals. The map pool and prizes for the StarCraft II portion of the Global Battle.net Invitational is as follows:
Xel'Naga Caverns Shakuras Plateau The Shattered Temple Antiga Shipyard Abyssal Caverns
First place - $50,000 Second place - $25,000 Third place - $10,000
Two rotating teams of shoutcasters will bring you all of the action; Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski will be paired up with his hetero nerd life partner Nick "Tasteless" Plott, and Sean "Day[9]" Plott will dual-cast with JP McDaniel.
"Sean "Day[9]" Plott will dual-cast with JP McDaniel."
WHY? I can understand Day9, but was no one else available? JP does fine as a host, but his commentary is lacking to say the least; this will certainly be a less enjoyable event with him aboard.
Man, there is only really Shakuras and maybe Antiga on that list that are playable. Shattered Temple and Abyssal have the same problems when close spawns are not removed. Then there is XC, which is consistently been cycling out of popularity because its way to easy for Terran or Toss to turtle on three base with a gold.
Close positions on Shattered and Abyssal are so imbalanced in ZvT and ZvP (Shattered moreso than Abyssal)... And XNC is just a difficult map with an easy gold base that controls the middle while Zerg has no Siege unit to control the map. All the other corridors are small enough to be abused and/or blocked off. This will be tough for Zerg...
We have to make Blizzard change the maps lol. Apart from the absolutely terrible maps (but what can we expect really, they kinda have proven they just don't understand maps) it seems to be great.
Doubt Blizzard cares, their massive amounts of money will attract the best players, they could have put Kulas Ravine and Steppes and the best players in the world would have flocked like flies around it.
My issue is that there will be so much to see at Blizzcon, HotS units more info, Diablo 3 which is like my most anticipated game and its going to be fun to see what the hell the WoW dev team can do to fix that abomination of a game, they are bleeding subs.
Blizzard were most likely going to use their own ladder maps instead of tournament ones anyways, but i noticed there are only 5. Is the entire tournament only Bo3/Bo5?
Actually people get GSL finals and Blizzcon so i guess its a trade off.
On October 19 2011 05:24 nooboon wrote: Blizzard were most likely going to use their own ladder maps instead of tournament ones anyways, but i noticed there are only 5. Is the entire tournament only Bo3/Bo5?
Actually people get GSL finals and Blizzcon so i guess its a trade off.
9 zerg players qualify so they put in two of the worst zerg maps (close pos shattered is actually impossible) & abyssal which has seen almost no tournament play. What? I guess that's one way to balance the RO8.
So Blizzard says that their maps are designed for the more casual players, and that they should not be used in tournaments. And then they use them for their biggest tournament... I hope at least it's MLG versions of them. But why use Abyssal?! I don't understand Blizzard =P
On October 19 2011 05:30 Jehct wrote: 9 zerg players qualify so they put in two of the worst zerg maps (close pos shattered is actually impossible) & abyssal which has seen almost no tournament play. What? I guess that's one way to balance the RO8.
Xel'Naga and Antiga aren't exactly good ZvT maps either
On October 19 2011 05:31 WrentheFaceless wrote: Though I may have missed it, but it seems like they got the Chinese players sorted out with the Visa issue.
Original Chinese qualifirs were XiGua and Uhen. They couldn't make it so they invited Toodming and Loner instead.
Congratulations Blizzard, you have officially made fools of yourselves. I can only hope someone from Blizzards reads this thread and sees the general response to the map pool.
QUOTE]On October 19 2011 05:31 WrentheFaceless wrote: Though I may have missed it, but it seems like they got the Chinese players sorted out with the Visa issue.
Original Chinese qualifirs were XiGua and Uhen. They couldn't make it so they invited Toodming and Loner instead.
Ah thank you for the information, did not know that, how did these two players do in the local invitational?
On October 19 2011 05:31 WrentheFaceless wrote: Though I may have missed it, but it seems like they got the Chinese players sorted out with the Visa issue.
Original Chinese qualifirs were XiGua and Uhen. They couldn't make it so they invited Toodming and Loner instead.
Best part? Toodming lost in the group stages of the qualifier and Loner got knocked out first round of loser's bracket =/ This lineup looks so lacklustre.
On October 19 2011 05:35 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Already prepared myself for a map pool that would suck shit :/ was no different from the invitationals.
This is actually much worse than the regional invitationals. I mean the map pools then were pretty bad. Now they've made them 10x worse lol
QUOTE]On October 19 2011 05:31 WrentheFaceless wrote: Though I may have missed it, but it seems like they got the Chinese players sorted out with the Visa issue.
Yea I just read that, some pretty sad invites, would have at least them extended an invite to 3rd and 4th, but I guess the two they invited already had Visas?
so blizzard specifically stated that their own maps should not be used in tournaments, because they are not optimal for tournaments. and then they do a tournamen with a huge price money with exactly that mappool?
On October 19 2011 05:41 WrentheFaceless wrote: Yea I just read that, some pretty sad invites, would have at least them extended an invite to 3rd and 4th, but I guess the two they invited already had Visas?
I know Loner was at Blizzcon last year
That must have been the case. No one else could get visas.
Let's hope they are sane enough to realize that they need to use the MLG versions of Antiga and Shattered. Close positions would be such a joke in a prestigious tournament like this.
Oh shit, I cracked the code. They're going to have the winner of the tournament play Jaedong. They wanted to make the SC2 guys look good with stupid maps ^_^
You have said that the ladder maps shouldn't be in tournaments, yet you keep adding them in. Dont you care for your tournaments? Is everything you say to be taken with a grain of salt?
I dont fucking understand anymore.... Well well we are going to see how you 2 rax like a boss on Abyssal Caverns atleast...
RIP Zerg. You have a losing winrate on Taldarim Altar vs Terran. Think about Shattered Temple close positions, and Abyssal Caverns LOL.
Dual Sight: 55% in favour of Terran Taldarim Altar: 61% in favour of Terran
I fucking HOPE IMMvp says 'I'm forfeiting my 1st round match because there is no reason for me to play on these awful maps and I want to focus on GSL, where we have Daybreak.'
"Our maps aren't meant for tournament usage." Remember that one Blizzard? Is there even a SINGLE tournament that uses close-spawn Shattered and Abyssal Caverns at the pro level? Blizzard is so out of touch it is giving me a migraine thinking of how they could come to such a decision to include some of these maps.
On October 19 2011 05:54 Jehct wrote: Oh shit, I cracked the code. They're going to have the winner of the tournament play Jaedong. They wanted to make the SC2 guys look good with stupid maps ^_^
God, how awesome would it be if they were like "...oh and you'll be joined in the tournament by four other players...".
On October 19 2011 05:56 Micket wrote: RIP Zerg. You have a losing winrate on Taldarim Altar vs Terran. Think about Shattered Temple close positions, and Abyssal Caverns LOL.
Dual Sight: 55% in favour of Terran Taldarim Altar: 61% in favour of Terran
I fucking HOPE IMMvp says 'I'm forfeiting my 1st round match because there is no reason for me to play on these awful maps and I want to focus on GSL, where we have Daybreak.'
SURPRISE. Blizzard chooses bad map pool. Oh that doesn't surprise me I hope they take a little community feedback and change it... otherwise it'll be sad to see some stupid sht happen to take out Nestea...
Amazing prize money, shitty shitty maps (would commit suicide if Shattered's close positions isn't disabled), and great casters. I just hope they show as many games as they possibly can.
I really hope progamers instant GG if they spawn in close positions, would really make a loud statement. I hope to see as many 2 raxes, bunker/pylon wall-ins and scv pulls as humanly possible. Make a statement gentlemen, here's our chance.
On October 19 2011 05:23 Zeon0 wrote: What did you think which maps they will use? Daybreak and Terminus? of course they use laddermaps
This, its Blizzard's blizzcon, ofc they play on maps you can play aswell on the ladder at home.
But didn't they always use the current tournament maps in broodwar? You couldn't play those on blizzard's ladder at home just on "pirate servers" that they hated.
On October 19 2011 06:17 Mr. Nefarious wrote: I really hope progamers instant GG if they spawn in close positions, would really make a loud statement. I hope to see as many 2 raxes, bunker/pylon wall-ins and scv pulls as humanly possible. Make a statement gentlemen, here's our chance.
Whoa. I really like your idea. Is there any way we can communicate this to the Koreans?
I mean, there are clearly some horrible maps there, but honestly, most other major tournaments feature gems such as Dual Sight and Xel'Naga Fortress. Not that they have the same kind of issues, but it is abundantly clear that some matchups are just silly on those maps. Even Bel'Shir Beach has the same issue, but everyone loves that due to the scenery so it often eludes criticism.
If you substituted Abyssal and Shattered with Dual Sight and Fortress, I would still be very unhappy about the map picks. Not that these are great, they are horrible, but that does not mean that this tournament specifically should be singled out.
On October 19 2011 06:17 Mr. Nefarious wrote: I really hope progamers instant GG if they spawn in close positions, would really make a loud statement. I hope to see as many 2 raxes, bunker/pylon wall-ins and scv pulls as humanly possible. Make a statement gentlemen, here's our chance.
Whoa. I really like your idea. Is there any way we can communicate this to the Koreans?
The entire audience, players and casters should just stand up and politely point out that this map pool is beyond horrible. Then sit down and continue..
On October 19 2011 06:15 jinorazi wrote: i love shattered temple...why you guys hatin
maybe i'm the weird one, i will always love lotem regardless of balance.
Close starting positions on shattered temple.... name anyone who enjoys that?
me! lol thats why i enjoy lotem/shatem, different position offers different type of games, though some maybe more difficult/easier than the other but still fun. then again, i'm speaking from casual perspective without money on the line.
Yeah, as a potential spectator of this event, I'm unhappy about the map pool as it stands now. Why force world-class players to compete on maps that limit their strategic options? Both winners and losers lose when the outcome of a game is attributed more to spawn locations than skill on either side.
Already looking forward to 2rax on Shattered/Abyssal close, hopefully with bunkers at the ramp :p e btw we should be happy that they atleast use Shakuras and not Searing Crater
I wonder if Nestea knows about these bad maps, someone should ask him on twitter what he thinks about them (in korean ofc) . I feel Nestea live up to his potential unless they aren't gsl maps.
Oh wow I didn't know Loner qualified again. Good for him. Hopefully he has a decent showing.
Why aren't the prizes for all the placements listed? I remember last time people who finished in the top half got something like $1000. In any event, the maps are a joke. It really goes to show that Blizzard doesn't care too much about progressing the game as an esport. (I'm not saying they don't care at all, but they really are showing that they aren't pushing for it).
Not only are the maps bad, but they have also said in the past that they think the maps for the ladder are not necessarily good for professional play, but they need to appeal to a wider audience. Nevertheless they host a professional tournament and have "casual" maps. (I don't want to find one of the sources as they have said it a few times, but I believe one is on AskJoshy's channel where CatZ interviews Dustin Browder)
9 zergs, damn nestea must be happy with the people attending the event. Regardless of the maps MVP would probably win the entire thing anyways, nestea had a pretty bad record against MVP and I don't see it changing at blizzcon.
On October 19 2011 06:38 Fusilero wrote: 9 zergs, damn nestea must be happy with the people attending the event. Regardless of the maps MVP would probably win the entire thing anyways, nestea had a pretty bad record against MVP and I don't see it changing at blizzcon.
Record doesn't matter. Nestea has an extremely high chance of beating MVP. Even 50-50. Did you watch their recent GSL match it was 3-2 MVP's favor and game 4 could have soooo easily gone either way.
Most of MVP - Nestea record is from maps even worse than this tourneys map pool.
On October 19 2011 05:07 Asha` wrote: Ah was hoping for Dusky, still I'm sure JP will do an admirable job.
The map pool is pretty interesting...it could be worse, but as long as we have no close positions I think we'll survive..?
Oh we definatly will have close positions. Remember the EU Invitational Naniwa-Ret game? Thank god NaNiwa ranted in the final interview about them playing the wrong map.
looks like we're going back to how it was back in 2010 blizzcon where close spawns were possible. Man, remember those GSL's when that still existed? Nestea vs MKP I remember on metal was quite something.
Well there's only one bad spawn out of three.....who am I kidding, the map choice is ridiculous once again. I'd feel so bad for players if they lost the deciding game of a series due to spawn positions. Hell, I'd feel bad for them if they lost any game due to spawn positions.
Even without close spawns this is still a terrible map pool.
Shattered and Xelnaga are like 59% TvZ and Shakuras is 55%. Antiga has too few games to tell but might be the best map there and Abyssal is going to be a godly terran map just looking at the design/from ladder experience.
I thought it was odd that MVP would compete in this and the GSL finals, but now I see why. He can 2 rax close spawns to a championship without giving away any of his plans against MMA.
Don't all act like u didn't see this mappool coming. They only used blizzard maps @ the invitationals too. The games will still be good, fingers crossed that the players don't spawn close position tho.
Hmm, can't wait to see the brackets, but I think it's ridiculous that xelnaga and abbysal are being used. Especially abyssal, that's like one of the worst maps in existence. Oh well, looks like MVP will probably win this now.
On October 19 2011 07:21 Zdrastochye wrote: MVP wins it all. Saving it so I can quote it and be all smug in the LR thread.
Look at the poll to the right smart one. Half of TL thinks MVP will win and that was before the maps were announced now I bet he'll be getting 60+% of the votes.
On October 19 2011 07:35 Dox wrote: Can't believe how many people are whining about the maps...
I doubt the players care as much as the people in this thread.
So you haven't ever read player interviews? Never watched SOTG? There are tons of resources and testimonials from professional players who have voiced their disgust for a lot of Blizzard maps.
Edit: I also think that MLG probably has a deal worked out with Blizzard that gets them JP at Blizzcon. JP is a plain and simply bad caster, and he's only ever casting with other good casters for exposure and to help him gain recognition in the community.
He's boring, poorly spoken, and doesn't contribute anything. However, he is somewhat of a figure head of MLG, and they thus try to shove him in situations that will boost his standing with the community. But why Blizzard? Blizzard must be doing MLG a favor after ruining their events with lack of LAN play :p
On October 19 2011 05:05 Canucklehead wrote: Wow 50k first prize! What was the prize money last year, I don't remember. MVP could make close to 100k this weekend! Go mvp go!
Apologies if this sounds racist but I'm just not sure how I feel about Select being north america's second representative.
I mean... It's just that that could lead to other Koreans coming here for easier qualifers for things like that.
On the other hand I guess that's a bit of a slippery slope falacy... and actually I guess Select repped us last time too didn't he? Alright I'll be quiet then.
On October 19 2011 08:02 TheDougler wrote: Apologies if this sounds racist but I'm just not sure how I feel about Select being north america's second representative.
I mean... It's just that that could lead to other Koreans coming here for easier qualifers for things like that.
On the other hand I guess that's a bit of a slippery slope falacy... and actually I guess Select repped us last time too didn't he? Alright I'll be quiet then.
Hahahahahaha the maps. That is just hilarious. :D I have to say I actually look forward to watch Nestea play on fucking Abyssal Caverns! So finals are bo5? Everything before that bo3? Is there a schedule yet?
omg lol are yo ukidding, i know you (Bliz) want to make it fair so that everyone has maps they know, but i'm pretty sure no tournament has really ever used abyssal caverns and it would be much safer to even use a map like taldarim altar which is in the ladder <_>
btw why is select korean, it shouuld be american flag since he is living in america currently no? (oh apparently it's cus of liquipedia)
On October 19 2011 05:12 Yaki wrote: Lol @the map pool. I can understand understand not having GSL map like dual sight or belshir beach but c'mon not even tal darim or terminus
They're only using ladder maps, but the fact that they're not using Tal'Darim Altar is mind boggling.
On October 19 2011 08:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: omg r u kidding only 2 protoss?
omg lol are yo ukidding, i know you (Bliz) want to make it fair so that everyone has maps they know, but i'm pretty sure no tournament has really ever used abyssal caverns and it would be much safer to even use a map like taldarim altar which is in the ladder <_>
btw why is select korean, it shouuld be american flag since he is living in america currently no? (oh apparently it's cus of liquipedia)
Would you be French if you lived in France but were born in the US?
... Okay seriously Blizzard, those ladder maps are going to flip this tournament upside down. There is a difference between laddering where its mostly 2 base timing pushes and competitive competition.
On October 19 2011 08:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: omg r u kidding only 2 protoss?
omg lol are yo ukidding, i know you (Bliz) want to make it fair so that everyone has maps they know, but i'm pretty sure no tournament has really ever used abyssal caverns and it would be much safer to even use a map like taldarim altar which is in the ladder <_>
btw why is select korean, it shouuld be american flag since he is living in america currently no? (oh apparently it's cus of liquipedia)
You know they held qualifiers for blizzcon right? Well other than Korea.
On October 19 2011 08:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: omg r u kidding only 2 protoss?
omg lol are yo ukidding, i know you (Bliz) want to make it fair so that everyone has maps they know, but i'm pretty sure no tournament has really ever used abyssal caverns and it would be much safer to even use a map like taldarim altar which is in the ladder <_>
btw why is select korean, it shouuld be american flag since he is living in america currently no? (oh apparently it's cus of liquipedia)
Would you be French if you lived in France but were born in the US?
That is a very generic situation. In this case, SeleCT is representing North America, so I don't think it was a terrible question, though I agree with it being a Korean flag.
Anyway... poor Brat_OK. Has to go against Nestea in the first round. I would love to see him win though. He barely gets any attention, and that would be a huge win for him, though unlikely.
The skill variance in the players is just enormous. There are no contenders against MVP and nestea. This, and the map pool makes for a stupid tournament. Doesn't mean it won't be entertaining, but still, blizzard is terrible at.... Everything.
I dont understand why blizzard insists on using those maps... they always talk about how their maps are not meant for tournament play but they insist on using them.. and they use some of the WORSE maps too. No Tal darim either.
I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts. If you really wanted to make a statement in protest to their choice of maps, refuse to watch.
But I doubt many will actually do that. They'll watch anyway because maps or no maps this tournament is going to be amazing.
On October 19 2011 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts.
The problem is it is not a good tournament if you are giving a lot of money out when your map pool STRONGLY favors one race, and it will not make for entertaining games.
On October 19 2011 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts.
The problem is it is not a good tournament if you are giving a lot of money out when your map pool STRONGLY favors one race, and it will not make for entertaining games.
And you know this for a fact?
I found the Blizzcon invitational tournaments very fun to watch and those included even worse maps like Backwater Gulch.
The only fact of the matter is you guys are up in arms because YOU don't like the maps. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what's fair and what's going to make for good games. We get terrible games all the time on tournament maps, the maps themselves won't dictate the quality of the games.
On October 19 2011 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts.
That's like saying Hitler ran the government and his opinion on the matter was the only one that counted. You ignore the fact that blizzard target an audience, and the opinion of this audience is important for blizzards success, both financially and socially....
On October 19 2011 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts.
That's like saying Hitler ran the government and his opinion on the matter was the only one that counted. You ignore the fact that blizzard target an audience, and the opinion of this audience is important for blizzards success, both financially and socially....
Oh that's a stretch.
The difference is that if it's such a problem for you, you could just refuse to watch. The fact is, it's enough of a problem to warrant complaining about it on forums but it isn't enough for anyone to boycott the event.
So in the end, Blizzard gets the same audience it would if it had this tournament on non-ladder maps.
On October 19 2011 10:09 1Eris1 wrote: Nestea might actually have a shot with these maps.
I'd say maybe a 10% chance instead of the normal .01.
rofl what?
Also even if people will still watch these maps completely invalidate the results of this tournament. We haven't had a tourney map pool this bad in like 6 months.
On October 19 2011 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't know why there's so much whining about the maps.
These guys are all professionals, they've played these maps before any time they're on the ladder. What's more if they really had a problem with the maps they could just refuse the invite to play on them.
There's no reason why Blizz can't dictate what maps are being played on. It's their tournament and their prize money to give away. Their opinion on the matter is the only one that counts.
The problem is it is not a good tournament if you are giving a lot of money out when your map pool STRONGLY favors one race, and it will not make for entertaining games.
And you know this for a fact?
I found the Blizzcon invitational tournaments very fun to watch and those included even worse maps like Backwater Gulch.
The only fact of the matter is you guys are up in arms because YOU don't like the maps. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what's fair and what's going to make for good games. We get terrible games all the time on tournament maps, the maps themselves won't dictate the quality of the games.
that's just wrong. maps can greatly influence how a game will play out.
ok the more i look at the list and the maps, the more i think that MVP is going to take this easy -.- i mean I can't imagine any of these players short of Nestea really upsetting him
Blizzard's tournament is just a side show for people at blizzcon I paid for the livestream last year and they only showed like 4 games and cut the rest in favour of W3 and WoW arenas the map pool was obviously just going to be ladder maps and the stream kept crashing I dunno why people are actually expecting anything decent out of blizzard the only thing they have going for them is the fact they can buy the best players in the world.
On October 19 2011 04:53 Stark1 wrote: "Sean "Day[9]" Plott will dual-cast with JP McDaniel."
WHY? I can understand Day9, but was no one else available? JP does fine as a host, but his commentary is lacking to say the least; this will certainly be a less enjoyable event with him aboard.
its kinda standard to have like a person with caster experience and a person with ingame knowledge. (painuser and hdstarcraft for example) however i don't know how good jp's ingame knowledge is, but he seems to have been around for time enough to have some starcraft casting experience. You can always mute if it gets too painful for you
Is this Streamed for free like the qualifiers or is only watchable with a virual ticket? Also poor Fing moonglade, running into MVP on any map pool would suck, but on these just lol
Why is everyone whining about the maps? All of them except Abyssal caverns has seen a lot of tournament use and I don't actually remember lots of complaints about them.
The pool is a bit small though, could've added Tal'Darim LE + 1 GSL map such as Terminus or something
On October 19 2011 10:47 jonathan1 wrote: come on even dustin browder would be a better casting choice than jp
Actually, Browder is quite good of a caster for those who are new for SC2. I think I still like his casting last Blizzcon with Day9.
I agree. Am glad Nestea and MVP are on opposite sides of the bracket.
Among the first round matches, the closest to call is probably Naniwa vs Major, both who have been practicing in the MVP and TSL house respecitvely for many weeks. That should be a very closely fought series!
On October 19 2011 10:57 Zeroxk wrote: Why is everyone whining about the maps? All of them except Abyssal caverns has seen a lot of tournament use and I don't actually remember lots of complaints about them.
The pool is a bit small though, could've added Tal'Darim LE + 1 GSL map such as Terminus or something
Close spawns are disabled in all other tournies. Not at Blizzcon.
What The MAPS???!?!?!? God, I thought Blizzard were just being cautious when they take their sweet ass time to fix balance changes, add in features that the sc2 community is yelling for(replay sharing, lan, etc.....), ridiculous APM change, but to add those ridiculous maps to a tournament this big? Now I know some of them are really just stupid as hell and hoping that we will just concede to their fucking stupid method.
On October 19 2011 10:57 Zeroxk wrote: Why is everyone whining about the maps? All of them except Abyssal caverns has seen a lot of tournament use and I don't actually remember lots of complaints about them.
The pool is a bit small though, could've added Tal'Darim LE + 1 GSL map such as Terminus or something
When they are intermixed with other maps they are not that bad but all together this map pool is horrible. There is not a single map that is even remotely a 'zerg map' Shakuras has over 55% win ratio for TvZ and Shattered/Xelnaga are close to 60%. Antiga is ok. Abyssal is just terrible.
On October 19 2011 10:58 PhoenixDark wrote: Soo...am I crazy for thinking Major can beat Nestea?
Well if he makes it that far I'll already be super impressed with his play since he probably had to roll through Naniwa and Sen to get there.
And ZvT is Nestea's worst MU (though his worst far outstrips most player's best MU), so though it would definitely be an upset, if he makes it through Sen and Naniwa, I wouldn't rule him out.
That said, I don't expect him to make it past Naniwa and Sen. I'm hoping someone will impress me in this tournament though =D
The quality of the maps is greatly dependent on if close spawns on shattered is enabled or not.
Xel'Naga Caverns = decent Shakuras Plateau = good The Shattered Temple (close positions) = HORRIBLE The Shattered Temple (not close spawns) = good Antiga Shipyard = good Abyssal Caverns = meh
Since it is Blizzard I'm going to assume close positions is enabled and hence I cross my fingers that everyone spawns cross map on this.
On October 19 2011 11:28 ClysmiC wrote: Ew at the map pool. They need to release the brackets! They say they have the players seeded, but I haven't been able to find the brackets anywhere
On October 19 2011 11:28 ClysmiC wrote: Ew at the map pool. They need to release the brackets! They say they have the players seeded, but I haven't been able to find the brackets anywhere
On October 19 2011 06:38 Fusilero wrote: 9 zergs, damn nestea must be happy with the people attending the event. Regardless of the maps MVP would probably win the entire thing anyways, nestea had a pretty bad record against MVP and I don't see it changing at blizzcon.
Record doesn't matter. Nestea has an extremely high chance of beating MVP. Even 50-50. Did you watch their recent GSL match it was 3-2 MVP's favor and game 4 could have soooo easily gone either way.
Most of MVP - Nestea record is from maps even worse than this tourneys map pool.
LOL there is something wrong with your logic here. On good maps, nestea is 50/50 with MVP. On bad maps, MVP always wins. These are bad maps bro.
On October 19 2011 06:38 Fusilero wrote: 9 zergs, damn nestea must be happy with the people attending the event. Regardless of the maps MVP would probably win the entire thing anyways, nestea had a pretty bad record against MVP and I don't see it changing at blizzcon.
Record doesn't matter. Nestea has an extremely high chance of beating MVP. Even 50-50. Did you watch their recent GSL match it was 3-2 MVP's favor and game 4 could have soooo easily gone either way.
Most of MVP - Nestea record is from maps even worse than this tourneys map pool.
LOL there is something wrong with your logic here. On good maps, nestea is 50/50 with MVP. On bad maps, MVP always wins. These are bad maps bro.
Read what I quoted he said "regardless of the maps"
who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
They do 2 per region and there were qualifiers. Huk failed to qualify over Select and Sheth.
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 12:34 Klamity wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
They do 2 per region and there were qualifiers. Huk failed to qualify over Select and Sheth.
that's really hard to believe lol but whatever. when did the qualifiers happen?
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
Uh the only invited players are MVP and Nestea, the rest qualified through the Blizzcon invitationals
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 12:34 Klamity wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
They do 2 per region and there were qualifiers. Huk failed to qualify over Select and Sheth.
that's really hard to believe lol but whatever. when did the qualifiers happen?
It really seems like blizzard doesn't want to host a good tournament. Shame, because it would be nice to see them be able to actually produce a good, competitive tournament but with this map pool I can't see that even remotely happening.
On October 19 2011 05:00 justinpal wrote: Man, there is only really Shakuras and maybe Antiga on that list that are playable. Shattered Temple and Abyssal have the same problems when close spawns are not removed. Then there is XC, which is consistently been cycling out of popularity because its way to easy for Terran or Toss to turtle on three base with a gold.
Shakuras? hah. Antiga is the best map but it has some "gold" problems still.
I don't really get why all the hate and the surprise from everybody on this.
All qualifiers used this maps, none of them had cross positions enabled(used MLG and GSL versions). Of those:
Xel'Naga Caverns Shakuras Plateau The Shattered Temple Antiga Shipyard Abyssal Caverns
The ones bolded still see tournament play. And Abysall Caverns is not really that subpar. And they want to use ladder maps because they want to encourage their ladder.
Last Blizzcon they used even crappier maps and the tournament was pretty cool. People who are suggesting for the players to insta GG and do that kind of crap forget that at least the Koreans are professional as hell, they would never do that and that would just make the competitive scene look like childish dicks.
Sorry if I seem rude, but it won't be as bad as people are acting as it will be, and to steal the opportunity to watch those awesome players play a tournament is petty and childish.
Edit: BTW, I see many people mentioning buying virtual tickets. IIRC the tournament stage was free last year. So you guys might want to check that out if you only want to see the tourneys
except for abysal caverns which I admit is pretty stupid, the maps are the same from MLG i don't understand people saying stupid shit like "OMG MAPS ARE SO BAD" "OMG i saw the maps and my brain exploded" ... wtf ? really ?
those are the same identical maps to MLG, except for 1. if you are complaining about the CLOSE SPAWN don't say "OMG THE MAPS ARE SO BAD" just complain about that particular issue.
some users turn off their brains and just post what's the most popular answer already been posted in the topic..
On October 19 2011 13:34 Fearest wrote: MVP Vs Moonglade, I feel bad for this Zerg already.
Too bad I don't have blizzcon's virtual ticket
Tournament streams are FREE.
You don't need to pay to watch the sc2 tournament, the virtual ticket is only for the panels and other events at Blizzcon.
Don't forget to tune in for the free (standard definition) tournament streams during BlizzCon, or take in all the high-definition detail by snagging a Virtual Ticket.
On October 19 2011 13:37 sunman1g wrote: except for abysal caverns which I admit is pretty stupid, the maps are the same from MLG i don't understand people saying stupid shit like "OMG MAPS ARE SO BAD" "OMG i saw the maps and my brain exploded" ... wtf ? really ?
those are the same identical maps to MLG, except for 1. if you are complaining about the CLOSE SPAWN don't say "OMG THE MAPS ARE SO BAD" just complain about that particular issue.
some users turn off their brains and just post what's the most popular answer already been posted in the topic..
Yeah I don't get it either. And its especially baffling when the Qualifiers eliminated Close spawns. Shattered temple was used in IPL 3 too.
It's the maps as a whole that makes it so bad. Looked at individually at least Shakuras and Antiga aren't bad at all but there isn't a single zerg map in the pool. Every map is either heavily or slightly T/P favored.
On October 19 2011 04:59 Jtom wrote: Close spots are still enabled I take it?
Blizzcon qualifiers used those same maps. They disabled close spawns.
I don´t know why everybody is so surprised, they used ladder maps for the qualifiers too.
I'm pretty sure I remember a Blizzcon game with a protoss ffeing in close positions on shattered against a zerg.
Well at least in the european qualifiers they used tournament versions(with supply depots).I am positive about that. I don't remember seeing any close positions on the American qualifiers but tbh I didn't watch all games.
NesTea almost needs no introduction. Some say his greatness cannot even be described in any human language, and have resorted to trying to create new, unidentifiable sounds to communicate his prowess. NesTea has won multiple titles in the Global StarCraft II League, and this will be his first major international showing.
On October 19 2011 14:20 ElusoryX wrote: well blizzard has to use maps that they made. if not why is it a blizzard hosted tournament?
Blizzard would use professional Brood War maps back when they held BW tournaments. The sc2 team is pretty ignorant and stubborn with their map pool. (been cited many times as referring to their map pool as "casual friendly")
On October 19 2011 04:59 Jtom wrote: Close spots are still enabled I take it?
Blizzcon qualifiers used those same maps. They disabled close spawns.
I don´t know why everybody is so surprised, they used ladder maps for the qualifiers too.
I'm pretty sure I remember a Blizzcon game with a protoss ffeing in close positions on shattered against a zerg.
You do. It was NaNiwa. He got rolled. And it may have been a 3gate expand.
I must be remembering wrong then. I was pretty sure, I remember that because of the supply depots at the base of the ramp and that people in the LR thread were making fun of Blizzard because their invitational was not even using Blizzard maps .
On October 19 2011 12:21 Mycl wrote: Well at least one thing was done right. MVP and Nestea are on different sides of the bracket
Thank god!
I wonder how many games does MVP have to play on Friday before GSL Finals... assuming he makes it to the semis of course. The schedule on Blizzcon's page doesn't give any details, only listing Starcraft II Match 1, 2, 3 etc. Winner finals will be played on Saturday 1pm.
On October 19 2011 13:54 MooMooMugi wrote: Why can't they just use GSL maps..
Frankly, any of these maps would be better than Dual Sight. The map pool might not be ideal, but this knee-jerk rage reaction from so many posters seems way over the top.
On October 19 2011 13:54 MooMooMugi wrote: Why can't they just use GSL maps..
Frankly, any of these maps would be better than Dual Sight. The map pool might not be ideal, but this knee-jerk rage reaction from so many posters seems way over the top.
yeah but dual sight is garbage.... it's really not hard to be better.
On October 19 2011 13:54 MooMooMugi wrote: Why can't they just use GSL maps..
Frankly, any of these maps would be better than Dual Sight. The map pool might not be ideal, but this knee-jerk rage reaction from so many posters seems way over the top.
Sure it may be knee-jerk, but to be fair this is a pretty big tournament held by the game developer itself. If I'm not mistaken, there's a significant prize pool involved as well as the pride of being the annual Blizzcon champion (global champion?).
So the reaction about the map-pool is expected because very few of the current Blizz maps are used in the majority of the tournmanets. Sure, a Blizz map may be better than dual sight, but is dual sight really that bad? [see Nestea v. MVP game 4 (MVP wins)]
Also, I hope they do not have close positions on any aforementioned "trap" maps. They just ask for short and coin-flip games.
On October 19 2011 15:08 oweia wrote: DIMAGA will crush nerds and prove that he is the one
I honestly hope he does; the guy is sick good. There is a possibility he can face MVP in round 3, which gets me all excited because if there's one zerg that can take down MVP, it's Dimaga. =P
This is more of a map 'puddle', no? I honestly cannot understand blizzards arrogance. No one thinks they are the best map makers except themselves. They should suck it up and copy another tournament instead of insisting these same old maps are quality work -_-
On October 19 2011 15:08 oweia wrote: DIMAGA will crush nerds and prove that he is the one
I honestly hope he does; the guy is sick good. There is a possibility he can face MVP in round 3, which gets me all excited because if there's one zerg that can take down MVP, it's Dimaga. =P
If there's one Zerg that can take down MVP, its Nestea lol. Dimaga can't touch MVP right now, and please don't bring up a game that had to be regamed that occured over 6 months ago.
On October 19 2011 15:08 oweia wrote: DIMAGA will crush nerds and prove that he is the one
I honestly hope he does; the guy is sick good. There is a possibility he can face MVP in round 3, which gets me all excited because if there's one zerg that can take down MVP, it's Dimaga. =P
If there's one Zerg that can take down MVP, its Nestea lol. Dimaga can't touch MVP right now, and please don't bring up a game that had to be regamed that occured over 6 months ago.
MVP is the kryptonite to Nestea though. Nestea just can't break him.
And yes, I will bring up a game that was regamed over 6 months ago. And the follow-up game. Who won that tournament btw? Who was the terran that was on fire during that time?
Fast forward to now: which Terran is on fire? Which zerg provides the most innovative and crazy enough builds to throw him off completely? (I can maybe throw Stephano in the mix, but he wont be at Blizzcon so meh).
Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
On October 19 2011 08:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: omg r u kidding only 2 protoss?
omg lol are yo ukidding, i know you (Bliz) want to make it fair so that everyone has maps they know, but i'm pretty sure no tournament has really ever used abyssal caverns and it would be much safer to even use a map like taldarim altar which is in the ladder <_>
btw why is select korean, it shouuld be american flag since he is living in america currently no? (oh apparently it's cus of liquipedia)
Would you be French if you lived in France but were born in the US?
Well i was talking about the player sense, but i forgot liquipedia does it by nationality. So i get what you mean but your example is bad, you would be french if you became a french citizen but not if u didnt.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
And that's your opinion, which in my opinion is silly too. =)
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 12:34 Klamity wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
They do 2 per region and there were qualifiers. Huk failed to qualify over Select and Sheth.
that's really hard to believe lol but whatever. when did the qualifiers happen?
Neither was White-ra. None of your suggestions made it through.
yeah i eat my words. but that's honestly a horrible qualifier. like to only invite 2 of them doesn't do justice to this epic tournament that's hosting a gsl finals as well. i mean thats only 4 spots for qualifiers excluding the 2 from korea. so where did all the other random people come from?
and i'm sorry if no one agrees but it's a shame ret ended up taking one of the spots, lol sorry i had to say it. it's going to be a repeat of "travel 15 hours, lose in 15 minutes.jpg" there is so much more potential than him with naniwa, thorzain, and white-ra. he blew his potential when he quit GSL just like jinro did and now they're just lack luster.
On October 19 2011 13:54 MooMooMugi wrote: Why can't they just use GSL maps..
Frankly, any of these maps would be better than Dual Sight. The map pool might not be ideal, but this knee-jerk rage reaction from so many posters seems way over the top.
Dual Sight is more balanced than any of the maps in this pool based on the stats besides Antiga which has too few games to really say anything.
It is actually terran favored both internationally and Korean only.
On October 19 2011 12:38 saocyn wrote: who ever made the bracket is honestly a moron, i'm pretty sure they invited the players as well. duno how you can ever manage to only get 2 protoss players and out of a 16 player pool. and out of the 2 protoss there is an unknown one.... like honestly? at least put someone who can put up a challenge with a p like huk, mc, white-ra, kiwikaki, heck even inori, fxoz, hasuobs
this isn't even going to be a fair tournament nor a challenge to MVP or Nestea it's like the 2 elite of CODE S vs B rank players.
and the terran choices are just ugh. how are you going to be cheap on the invites at your own event? like you'd think if blizzard was getting shares for their game in every tournament they'd be willing to fork over the extra cash to bring people who can actually give mvp and nestea a run for their money. like MMA, bomber, dongraegu, ganzi, at least invite people who have a realistic shot to dethrone the kings ....
On October 19 2011 12:34 Klamity wrote:
On October 19 2011 11:45 rohanim41 wrote: seriously only 2 protoss on 16 total players, talk about underrepresentation.
complaining about unequal distribution in only 1 tournament out of hundreds, talk about under-representation.
doesn't matter. iTS BLIZZARDS OWN TOURNAMENT. they made this game and they should be up to date on who's good and who's not to make the best tournament out there that's equal, balanced and fair to best represent their game. they get a share of every tournament out there that makes more than 5k, they have no excuse for a crappy tournament cause it's their own damn game.
They do 2 per region and there were qualifiers. Huk failed to qualify over Select and Sheth.
that's really hard to believe lol but whatever. when did the qualifiers happen?
Neither was White-ra. None of your suggestions made it through.
yeah i eat my words. but that's honestly a horrible qualifier. like to only invite 2 of them doesn't do justice to this epic tournament that's hosting a gsl finals as well. i mean thats only 4 spots for qualifiers excluding the 2 from korea. so where did all the other random people come from?
Every region had a qualifier except korea which seeded the 2 highest GSL rankings
SEA NA LA EU TW CN RU
Easily accessible information on the wiki that is linked.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
there is no need to belittle foreigners effort to give what they have, same talk happened before dimaga beat Nestea, and not im not saying dimaga is favorite im saying do not underestimate players effort to win and their talent, and dimaga has both. hence its not silly
i definitly have to disagree with the dimaga statement. as a person who soley supports koreans and their dominance in every tournament, dimaga is definitly one capable of playing on the korean level. not only taking MVP into a 1 hour game to only have it disc and to win the 2nd, he was the first person to take a zvz game off of nestea which is honestly amazing since at the time nestea was hailed as greatest and still is. just look at how the guy trashed losira in GSL and you'd think it'd be unfucking possible to beat him in a zvz.
while MVP's tvz is probably the best in the world it's not unbeatable. it is still very very susecptable to mutalisk play. if you have even seen the VOD's recently of the AOL league dongragegu 2-0ed him very easily in dominating fashion. even back then he lost to july's baneling bust and even way back farther, to idra in a late game. MVP's only weakness is some cheesey flip coin strat but it seems he falls for those more than he does ever in a solid game.
Facepalm at abyssal caverns. However , during blizzcon, I do remember they used MLG versions of the blizzard maps including metalopolis, which had the whole neutral lowered supply depot and disabled close spawns business. I just have to wonder... who the heck is on their map making team? Hopefully Dustin Browder is not leading it because I've just had enough with destructible rocks promoting STRUTAGEE.
Not to be too hard on Blizzard though. I can understand from their position that an official Blizzard tournament would be using official Blizzard Ladder maps.
Blizzard once said they didn't want to change the laddermaps to all macro maps with one-gas expos etc. because that would not be consistent with the ladder idea of variety in gameplay but that they were totally fine with tournaments having different maps for professional play. Then they host this.
Seriously, treating Blizzcon Finals as a series of showmatches would be best I guess. If you want real e-sports, GSL Finals will be happening anyways (although they will suck balls as is tradition).
This is so sad considering how much production value Blizzard usually puts into it. Tal Darim wouldn't have hurt anybody, would it? Siiiigh Blizz.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
there is no need to belittle foreigners effort to give what they have, same talk happened before dimaga beat Nestea, and not im not saying dimaga is favorite im saying do not underestimate players effort to win and their talent, and dimaga has both. hence its not silly
Same talk when down before qxc all-killed IM (Mvp included).
I cant believe blizzard would ruin a great great tournament with this map pool... Why dont they just use the GSL map pool or cut some out and use rest. They will look stupid when the GSL finals take place and they use ACTUAL TOURNAMENT MAPS. I understand that they want to promote the ladder, but isnt it controversial when they themselves have said that the ladder map pool isnt intended for tournament use, and such doesnt have to be the same type? For example abyssal caverns has never been seen in actual tournaments i think and its a terribad map. Shattered is ok with no close spawns but knowing blizz they will use it.
All the people that paid for GSL on gomtv must feel pretty cheated as they aren't even allowed to watch the finals.
MVP and MMA must feel pretty cheated as they now have to play the finals in another country, in disgusting lag, and later than scheduled, and at the same time as another tournament is taking place.
I guess it's too much to ask for Blizzard to GTFO since it's their game and all but still...
On October 19 2011 18:49 Nash wrote: All the people that paid for GSL on gomtv must feel pretty cheated as they aren't even allowed to watch the finals.
MVP and MMA must feel pretty cheated as they now have to play the finals in another country, in disgusting lag, and later than scheduled, and at the same time as another tournament is taking place.
I guess it's too much to ask for Blizzard to GTFO since it's their game and all but still...
is it confirmed that GSL subscribers wont get to see the finals this weekend cuz its at blizzcon? If so, I will feel ripped off
Day[9] and JP will disappoint the people that expected Daytosis[9] again, but it's an excellent combo otherwise, though I prefer JP more with Artosis.
The maps are objectionable to say the least, didn't Browder himself say that the new ladder maps like Abyssal were not meant for competitive play?
If shattered temple has close pos like it did in EU battle.net invitational (which was, in my opinion, somewhat ruined by the fact that all the ST games were close pos. Bad coincidence , still a great event ^^) I dearly hope that Nestea and MVP themselves walk up to whoever is responsible for this and smacks them in the face with the fury of a thousand undeserved wins and losses.
I absolutely do not understand Blizzards objection to using GSL maps. Just admit it, they're vastly better than anything you've ever put out
On October 19 2011 18:49 Nash wrote: All the people that paid for GSL on gomtv must feel pretty cheated as they aren't even allowed to watch the finals.
MVP and MMA must feel pretty cheated as they now have to play the finals in another country, in disgusting lag, and later than scheduled, and at the same time as another tournament is taking place.
I guess it's too much to ask for Blizzard to GTFO since it's their game and all but still...
I think it will be kinda bad. A lot of good names missing, while there are players who don't deserve the spot! And thats because they just wanted 2 players from each region... The prize pool is not that big too. I mean the event is just once a year, it could be bigger! And the map pool is like wtf...
Guys chillax. Blizzard IMO put the best 5 blizzard made maps into the pool.
On the side note. 40 bucks for HQ (720p) stream LOLWUT? l know it also offers some content, but I rather watch illeageal restreams and/or vods of the few interisting things they have on other streams, like I did last year.
On October 19 2011 19:33 Sea_Food wrote: Guys chillax. Blizzard IMO put the best 5 blizzard made maps into the pool.
On the side note. 40 bucks for HQ (720p) stream LOLWUT? l know it also offers some content, but I rather watch illeageal restreams and/or vods of the few interisting things they have on other streams, like I did last year.
On October 19 2011 19:33 Sea_Food wrote: Guys chillax. Blizzard IMO put the best 5 blizzard made maps into the pool.
On the side note. 40 bucks for HQ (720p) stream LOLWUT? l know it also offers some content, but I rather watch illeageal restreams and/or vods of the few interisting things they have on other streams, like I did last year.
On October 19 2011 19:27 Bashion wrote: Only who has a ticket will be able to watch it?
"Don't forget to tune in for the free (standard definition) tournament streams during BlizzCon, or take in all the high-definition detail by snagging a Virtual Ticket."
Maybe you need a gomtv pass to watch the GSL finals though, I dont know.
On October 19 2011 19:33 Sea_Food wrote: Guys chillax. Blizzard IMO put the best 5 blizzard made maps into the pool.
On the side note. 40 bucks for HQ (720p) stream LOLWUT? l know it also offers some content, but I rather watch illeageal restreams and/or vods of the few interisting things they have on other streams, like I did last year.
Why the hell are we still using Xel'Naga and Shattered with close positions? It's so imbalanced for Terran it's disgusting. The rest I am okay with really.
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the map pool. I have to play on these same maps as a zerg at high master/GM level every day and I do just fine. I'm sure these high tier zergs will practice enough to know the little tricks and gimmicks these maps have to offer and will surely be a threat to their opponents. I don't see anything wrong with these maps.
Did you really expect Blizzard to not use their own maps? That would be like admitting they know the maps are bad but they cant be bothered to change them for ladder. Pretty naive to expect that I would say.
I can understand the disappointment but maybe we will see some cool ways to play on these maps aside from complete abuse.
A tournament hosted by blizzard without their own maps would be better obviously, especially considering the only really good one is shakuras plateau, but it's never gonna happen and it's the smartest thing to do from blizz's side. They're the ones doing all the trouble so they're allowed to put in a bad map or two.
Well if anything this will allow them to collect some data. They got 9 of some of the best zerg from all around the world and a only a small bunch of Protoss and Terran. Even if some of the protoss or terran should win they are still going to see some good play from the zergs and i doupt they are just going to give up without a fight.
It is also importent to rememper that the blizcon finals don't need a reputation. Blizzard barely make any money from this(that they wouldn't have earned anyway from the rest of the stuff at blizzcon). So they might aswell use the opputonity to see how the best zerg in the world react in siturations they don't usually get in.
On October 19 2011 22:59 Sumadin wrote: Well if anything this will allow them to collect some data. They got 9 of some of the best zerg from all around the world and a only a small bunch of Protoss and Terran. Even if some of the protoss or terran should win they are still going to see some good play from the zergs and i doupt they are just going to give up without a fight.
It is also importent to rememper that the blizcon finals don't need a reputation. Blizzard barely make any money from this(that they wouldn't have earned anyway from the rest of the stuff at blizzcon). So they might aswell use the opputonity to see how the best zerg in the world react in siturations they don't usually get in.
They barely make any money but charge 40$ from HD, more than any other. This event will show probably who is the best abuser or is best on ladder maps.
Really dislike both the map pool and the player pool. 9/16 players are zergs, only two are protoss, and nobody here gives me the slightest doubt that Nestea and MVP will be in the finals.
It seems like Blizzard is going about ensuring they get what GOMTV could not- the two best players in the finals.
ugghh, hate to say this, but i might not buy the virtual ticket this year, to be honest, that map pool is embarrassing, this isn't a bunch of bronze league players in it, it's the very best in the world that don't train on awful maps that don't get used in tournaments. If it is good though, i shall eat my words, because the player pool is looking good, although i would like more protoss >.<
It was the same i think in all the blizzard tournys' they use their ladder maps only with close positions enabled it wont change but it should
On October 19 2011 23:25 xi Tempest x wrote: ugghh, hate to say this, but i might not buy the virtual ticket this year, to be honest, that map pool is embarrassing, this isn't a bunch of bronze league players in it, it's the very best in the world that don't train on awful maps that don't get used in tournaments. If it is good though, i shall eat my words, because the player pool is looking good, although i would like more protoss >.<
yeah i wont be buying either, all i want to watch is the sc2 and the maps are terrible for this level of play +25£ is too expensive
On October 20 2011 01:41 zYwi3c wrote: Is Starcraft 2 stream going to be free like last year ? And when they will release whats the gift for sc2 ? For WoW its a Pet again :<
Standard quality is free yes, HD pass + other stuff is 40$. There is no sc2 thing as far as I know. You only get the WoW pet.
On October 19 2011 23:15 Durp wrote: Really dislike both the map pool and the player pool. 9/16 players are zergs, only two are protoss, and nobody here gives me the slightest doubt that Nestea and MVP will be in the finals.
It seems like Blizzard is going about ensuring they get what GOMTV could not- the two best players in the finals.
they are all qualifiers, how can you hate on the player pool? -_-
the bracket is fairly standard, putting each of the players of each region in different sides to avoid "team kills" and give each region more chance to cheer for longer.
I'm pretty sure that Dustin Browder specifically said that the ladder maps were not intended for tournament play... Yet here they are, with $50,000 on the line.
On October 19 2011 18:49 Nash wrote: All the people that paid for GSL on gomtv must feel pretty cheated as they aren't even allowed to watch the finals.
MVP and MMA must feel pretty cheated as they now have to play the finals in another country, in disgusting lag, and later than scheduled, and at the same time as another tournament is taking place.
I guess it's too much to ask for Blizzard to GTFO since it's their game and all but still...
Doa and wolf pretty much said GOM will be streaming the finals................
On October 20 2011 02:28 Fijnkonijn wrote: Mjeh, JP is more of an interviewer even when he is "casting", he mostly asks his co-caster about his opinion as he says anything interesting himself.
I'll have to agree with this. I love State of the game and I appreciate what JP has done for the community but I don't think he is a good caster. I think Djwheat and Husky with day9 are better
Abyssal Caverns? lol did they just draw maps out of a hat at random?
No matter what people say about Dustin Browder and David Kim watching GSL and talking to players, etc., this proves that Blizzard just does not pay attention to competitive play, period.
On October 20 2011 02:51 sealpuncher wrote: With GSL maps MVP could have made over 100k in under a week. I think it will be way harder for him with these maps.
Actually i disagree with you. Nestea and MVP are favorites for a finals match if the brackets are set up appropiately. The maps are more going to hurt Nestea more than MVP though. MVP's style is fine here, and he is probably going to demolish everyone. Nestea's weakness is zvt and with these maps T has alot of shenanigans/builds that are gonna beat him.
My heart is going to cheer for Naniwa to sweep, but we gotta be honest here.
Blizzard gets so much backlash from the pro scene from having these maps in the ladder pool and recognize pros hate these maps (Abyssal and Xel Naga Caverns) but they put them in the tournament pool? I really have no clue what the hell the people at Blizzard who deal with maps are thinking.
Obviously Blizzard will use the ladder maps, they put them on ladder because they think the maps are of the highest quality. They are always the last to recognize any balance problems, be it in play or when it comes to the maps.
Abyssmal Caverns official map description per Liquipedia:
Your first expansion is easy to defend but additional resources are harder to protect. Rocks can be destroyed to open up additional paths or resources. A Watch Tower marks the center of the map.
What they really mean: Zerg go home!
What's particularly annoying is that with 5 minutes of modification, Antiga Shipyard can be a really good map. The MLG version (based on an ICCup version I believe) hosted some really good games at Orlando.
Map stuff aside it is really exciting that we might see BRAT_OK. He just vanished after Beta, I believe he was in the WCG grand finals as least once as a BW player wasn't he? It's good to see MoonGlade in a major international tournament again too, I've been hoping to see one of the former TFT players kick some SC2 butt!
On October 20 2011 02:40 Vul wrote: Abyssal Caverns? lol did they just draw maps out of a hat at random?
No matter what people say about Dustin Browder and David Kim watching GSL and talking to players, etc., this proves that Blizzard just does not pay attention to competitive play, period.
I think it's more a matter of pride, they just don't wanne publicly admit that their maps have flaws.
I just realized BRAT_OK is going up against Nestea in the first round... If he abuses this map pool (and get close spawn on shattered) Nestea might be going out in the first round...
Meh disappointing. JP casting and the maps are insane... what is blizzard thinking? they're letting small online tournaments out-do them in tournament preparation
Wow, not only do you invite 2000 zergs to the tournament and -2 protoss, you pick the worst maps ever for a tournament. Also how does the consolation bracket even work? Blizzard still showing that don't give a crap about the community.
What the fuck is wrong with them... It's bad eneugh to force these maps on the ladder, but are you really going to use these maps for a tournament? Really? -.-'
On October 20 2011 03:26 uMjuzu wrote: I just realized BRAT_OK is going up against Nestea in the first round... If he abuses this map pool (and get close spawn on shattered) Nestea might be going out in the first round...
WP blizzard :\
Hah, you're right... Bratok surely can do something like that. Foreigners fighting!
On October 20 2011 03:30 Wildsound wrote: Wow, not only do you invite 2000 zergs to the tournament and -2 protoss, you pick the worst maps ever for a tournament. Also how does the consolation bracket even work? Blizzard still showing that don't give a crap about the community.
The people here deserve to be there, cause they WON the qualifiers...
"Your first expansion is easy to defend but additional resources are harder to protect. Rocks can be destroyed to open up additional paths or resources. A Watch Tower marks the center of the map.
What they really mean: Zerg go home!
"
Actually that in it self makes the maps more zerg favored. And no antiga is not a good zerg map as well.
On October 20 2011 03:01 Hider wrote: Where is major?
major is terran, just one of his many monikers.
also, I think Blizzard should have considered using the GSL maps, aren't they in partnership with GOM? what would be so bad about using them, maybe pull out the GSL tag out of the names if they feel like not including anyone else.
I'll be really surprised if a Terran doesn't win this. And I'll be really surprised if Zergs are able to get a 3rd expansion without dying right after doing it.
The only chance for Zergs here is if Terrans forgets how to play closeposition xD.
And I hope NesTea comes up with some miracle strategies to overcome terran but I doubt so. And Protoss... Mmm 4 gate everything ? lol lol lol this is going to be a QQ tournament for sure :D.
Drinking Game: Drink a whole Vodka-Tonic glass if a Terran doesn't win this. (I don't know the slang for it in English lol) Drink a whole Vodka-Tonic glass if Zerg don't die 5 minutes after getting the 3rd
On October 20 2011 03:40 Drakan wrote: I'll be really surprised if a Terran doesn't win this. And I'll be really surprised if Zergs are able to get a 3rd expansion without dying right after doing it.
The only chance for Zergs here is if Terrans forgets how to play closeposition xD.
And I hope NesTea comes up with some miracle strategies to overcome terran but I doubt so. And Protoss... Mmm 4 gate everything ? lol lol lol this is going to be a QQ tournament for sure :D.
Drinking Game: Drink a whole Vodka-Tonic glass if a Terran doesn't win this. (I don't know the slang for it in English lol) Drink a whole Vodka-Tonic glass if Zerg don't die 5 minutes after getting the 3rd
Drinking games are supposed to get you drunk, therefore this one is aweful lol.
Better example: -Take a shot everytime a game is lost on Antiga Shipyard because Terran parked a bunch of tanks at the third which can hit into the main. -Take a drink everytime players look confused while playing on Abyssmal Caverns because no one has ever friggin played this stupid map ever.
Xel naga, Shakuras, Antiga? It's a Blizzard tournament so using that kind of map pool isn't surprising. Still, I'm sick of seeing the same maps over and over in pretty much every tournament. That being said, I don't consider Blizzcon as a legit high end tournament like the GSL, to me it's more of a show, a promotional event, a festival.
winner's bracket ro4 nestea/major/mvp/dimaga unfortunately for mvp he proabably wont have to go against any terrans and i'm pretty sure its tvt that he is currently working on.
On October 19 2011 05:05 zerious wrote: MVP might win this tournament in a total of 2 in-game hours.
where is the "like" button?
It is ridiculous, can't blizzard make a vote or something? I mean I can understand that they don't want to remove close pos in the ladder but in tournaments? didn't they say themselves that ladder maps should be ladder maps and that tournament maps should be different?
aren't the russian invites have been done a bit too fast? TL ELO... and go?
I guess we can understand for the GSL kor invites...
Maybe we could have Strelok and White-Ra in a "Russian region tournament"? no way...
Oh well whatever... Professor Tea will Crush for the Swarm!! Then the Game Genie will arrive... and surpass the God of Zerg! How can it be : Genie over a God???
On October 19 2011 04:53 Stark1 wrote: "Sean "Day[9]" Plott will dual-cast with JP McDaniel."
WHY? I can understand Day9, but was no one else available? JP does fine as a host, but his commentary is lacking to say the least; this will certainly be a less enjoyable event with him aboard.
Day9 has it covered on his own JP is just there to chat
On October 20 2011 04:42 ch1ppr wrote: will this stream be free?
I highly doubt it. They're most likely part of the Blizzcon virtual ticket to watch all the streams of the whole event. I just hope both the VoD's from the tourney and GSL finals will be free and up quickly after if they are free.
The European time for the GSL finals is insane.
As far as the drinking game goes. I think drinking everytime a caster shout "SOOOO MANY BANELINGS!" with this amounts of zergs in the game should get you hammered pretty decently.
edit: Assumed wrong. I just read that the livestreams from the tournaments will be free.
"Live streaming coverage and replays of the tournaments are available online for FREE. To view the streams in HD and gain access to all panels, interviews, contests, and the closing concert, upgrade to the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket."
I think the map pool would be Greatly improved with just a couple substitutions. Caverns for Tal Darim... would be my first though. Got to at least have 1 of their big maps :/
Even that 1 substitution would make a huge difference I think ^^
Really unfortunately that they picked these maps... Abyssal Caverns is absolutely horrible, in particular. Shakuras and Antiga are the best two maps here.
Also, I like JP, but his casting isn't that terrific... His enunciation isn't quite clear. Would rather to see Day9 with Husky or any number of other casters.
Even though I want every tournament to be awesome, it would be kinda funny if this tournament would have some of the internet problems others been having.
As for JP casting, I'm just happy for him that he managed to get this amazing job. Casting at blizzcon is a pretty big honor, so lets be happy for him and hope he does well.
On October 20 2011 06:01 Gotuso wrote: Even though I want every tournament to be awesome, it would be kinda funny if this tournament would have some of the internet problems others been having.
As for JP casting, I'm just happy for him that he managed to get this amazing job. Casting at blizzcon is a pretty big honor, so lets be happy for him and hope he does well.
Although it would be ironic, I've never seen any techincal difficulties happen at Blizzcon, I think they have their own inhouse network set up at the event thats not connected to normal Battle.net
And I dont get all the JP hate either, I think hes an entertaining guy and works well with Day9
I'd really rather JP was not co casting with sean. I feel day9 is so many leagues above him that any personal chemisty they have together kinda gets nullified.
and also the maps, its clear to me that they are using their own blizzard ladder maps for their own blizzard tournament, but so help me god i will be fucking upset if they have their proud finders so far up their asses that they refuse to edit out close positions just so they can use their 'pure' blizzard made maps.
thinking about it just makes me depressed.
otherwise im hoping for a great tournament. MOONGLADE FIGHTING :D
Eewwwwww maps. Abyssal? ABYSMAL? Cereal now, it's as if they looked at the most-vetoed maps currently on ladder, and took two of the top ones (Abyssal and XNC).
Why did they go so far out of their way to turn people against the planning division of this tournament?
Wow, a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon here and shitting on blizzard's maps. They're really not that bad.They are obviously not the best maps, but that doesn't mean they're terrible. The only problem with a lot of them is possible close spawn positions. And just because the map has clown spawn possibility doesn't mean its gonna automatically be a close spawn cheesy game.
Give blizz the chance to showcase some of their own maps a bit. I mean a lot of these are pretty standard tourny maps anyway (antiga, shakuras, shattered, xnc). I feel like people just see blizzard made maps and write them off as dumb because its the cool thing to hate on blizzard.
On October 20 2011 09:10 Komentaja wrote: Hah, I like the maps actually. Nothing wrong with the good ol' ladder.
Do you even watch pro-gaming? There's something called Mutual Supply Depot at the bottom of each ramp in all the GSL/MLG maps for the corresponding Ladder map, now why do you think these event organizers would augment the maps to put such building in place? Use your head, thanks.
On October 20 2011 08:40 itkovian wrote: The only problem with a lot of them is possible close spawn positions. And just because the map has clown spawn possibility doesn't mean its gonna automatically be a close spawn cheesy game.
Have you ever heard of something called Mutual Supply Depot at the bottom of each ramp in all the GSL/MLG maps for the corresponding Ladder map? Now why do you think these event organizers would augment the maps to put such building in place? Use your head, thanks.
On October 20 2011 09:10 Komentaja wrote: Hah, I like the maps actually. Nothing wrong with the good ol' ladder.
Do you even watch pro-gaming? There's something called Mutual Supply Depot at the bottom of each ramp in all the GSL/MLG maps for the corresponding Ladder map, now why do you think these event organizers would augment the maps to put such building in place? Use your head, thanks.
On October 20 2011 09:10 Komentaja wrote: Hah, I like the maps actually. Nothing wrong with the good ol' ladder.
Do you even watch pro-gaming? There's something called Mutual Supply Depot at the bottom of each ramp in all the GSL/MLG maps for the corresponding Ladder map, now why do you think these event organizers would augment the maps to put such building in place? Use your head, thanks.
The mutual supply depot is pretty lame. Just patrol a drone there if you need to, using an outside intervention like that is ridiculous imo.
And yes, I watch pro-gaming and I'm High masters atm.
On October 20 2011 08:40 itkovian wrote: The only problem with a lot of them is possible close spawn positions. And just because the map has clown spawn possibility doesn't mean its gonna automatically be a close spawn cheesy game.
Have you ever heard of something called Mutual Supply Depot at the bottom of each ramp in all the GSL/MLG maps for the corresponding Ladder map? Now why do you think these event organizers would augment the maps to put such building in place? Use your head, thanks.
I'm pretty sure they're called "neutral" supply depots. Sorry, it was bugging me.
maybe when every single zerg gets cheesed out when they play close position blizzard will finally understand the problem
a similar thing happened in very early warcraft 3. blizzard stubbornly refused to see the problem with mass catapults, until mass catapults completely and utterly destroyed their end of beta invitational
I actually think Nestea has a better chance than MVP in this. I think MVP will be practicing for his TvT match-up and certain maps for his GSL finals against MMA. I think Nestea will have more time practicing these specific maps (which NO ONE plays competitively) and other match-ups. Zerg hwaiting!!!
The best thing that could happen at Blizzcon is for MVP to face Nestea in the finals and for the last game in an epic series to be on Shattered Temple close spawns, and then for Nestea to GG as soon he scouted.
Does the tournament surprise anyone really? Blizzard just makes the games (and arguably not well enough), they don't throw good events or tournaments. That's up to the community.
Pros: Good prize pool for top 3 Good players invited Well advertised and played tournament (I guess?) (trying to think of more, can't really)
Cons: Shitty ladder maps Marginal choice of casters (I dont care but this seems to be an issue to others) Invite only tournament (no way for players around the world to earn their spot)
I'd say this is more of an exhibition tournament than anything else. Obviously us hardcore players and fans shouldn't take it for more than that just because the prize money is high. From blizzard's perspective they aren't really putting up that much money at all in comparison to their wealth and amount put up by less wealthier organizations and peoples.
PS- why is select listed as korean when hes north american (just korean heritage).
It's like Blizzard wants to pump resources into a headline event but is then to stubborn to realise that some of their maps are just plain awful. $50,000 is an amazing first place prize but if i can just imagine the finals being ruined by pure map randomness.
Saying that, the player list is insane Mvp should win this; i mean, who can really stop him!
On October 20 2011 08:40 itkovian wrote: Wow, a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon here and shitting on blizzard's maps. They're really not that bad.They are obviously not the best maps, but that doesn't mean they're terrible. The only problem with a lot of them is possible close spawn positions. And just because the map has clown spawn possibility doesn't mean its gonna automatically be a close spawn cheesy game.
Give blizz the chance to showcase some of their own maps a bit. I mean a lot of these are pretty standard tourny maps anyway (antiga, shakuras, shattered, xnc). I feel like people just see blizzard made maps and write them off as dumb because its the cool thing to hate on blizzard.
Close spawns only makes cheese a little harder to hold. Macro games/timing pushes, on the other hand, are a guaranteed loss for zerg on these maps (who needs a third right?). The people who 4gate when they see close spawns are stupid (though 2rax pressure is sick good).
On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote: whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
i dont want to sound too aggressive, but why do you think that _no_ tournament use this kinds of maps? Even blizzard said that their ladder lappool is not for tournament use but for casuals.
I wonder how many of the players have played abyssal caverns more than once. Hopefully players can veto maps, so all the Zergs will veto shattered and most other players abyssal caverns, which would leave us with a fairly good map pool, except non X positions antiga.
The map pool looks small though, so I'm not sure there will be a veto system, I can definetly imagine some Activision board discussing how it won't look good if pro players 'reject' maps.
On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote: whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled.
Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments.
Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it.
Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans.
On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote: whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled.
Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments.
Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it.
Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans.
There's no doubt it'll get closer to 50% as more games are played, but it's still quite clear that it's a zerg favoured map, esp. against toss.
Guys what's the difference between GSL Antiga and Blizzard Antiga except for the neutral supply depot's? Currently at school so I can't check it out for myself.
i don't see how abyssal caverns is terran-favored. the main and natural are so tiny that terrans have hard time placing their buildings with add-ons there. and there are plenty of wide areas where chargelots and zerg units feel very comfortable. i personally hate this map.
On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote: whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled.
Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments.
Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it.
Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans.
There's no doubt it'll get closer to 50% as more games are played, but it's still quite clear that it's a zerg favoured map, esp. against toss.
If you agree that it will get closer to 50% then I don't see how you can argue it is more imbalanced in Z favor than Shattered Temple is in T favor. Especially considering that this ST will be close positions which is over 70% with far more games than Dual Sight. Not to mention Dual Sights stats are actually T favored in TvZ in both TLPDs.
Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
On October 20 2011 18:16 TissTuss wrote: I have no idea what the blizzard is thinking about the maps. Its kinda hard no to get the feeling blizzard doesnt give a singel fuck.
so they want to impress bisu, jaedong, fantasy and stork at blizzcon. by promoting ladder maps that are absolutely terrible and will encourage 1-2 base timing attacks because they're playing for money.
On October 20 2011 18:26 ViperPL wrote: Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
There were qualifiers for each server, there's a Russian server...what in the fuck do you have a problem with exactly?
On October 20 2011 18:16 TissTuss wrote: I have no idea what the blizzard is thinking about the maps. Its kinda hard no to get the feeling blizzard doesnt give a singel fuck.
so they want to impress bisu, jaedong, fantasy and stork at blizzcon. by promoting ladder maps that are absolutely terrible and will encourage 1-2 base timing attacks because they're playing for money.
yup, thats blizzard logic.
It's funny because 2 base timing attacks are still a huge part of the BW game. Though I guess its 4+ bases or bust for some people.
On October 20 2011 18:26 ViperPL wrote: Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
There were qualifiers for each server, there's a Russian server...what in the fuck do you have a problem with exactly?
I'm not sure what your trying to say, but some of the strongest sc2 players are from eastern europe, White-ra and Dimaga, the only zerg to have taken a zvz series off nestea in a telivised match, are both eastern european, so if your suggesting that eastern europe doesn't deserve to be in this then i'm confused.
Not to mention players like strelok, Brat-ok and others, who, despite not having had really good showings in major tournaments, were great in broodwar and the main thing holding them back in sc2 is (in my opinion) a lack of tournaments which we get to see.
On October 20 2011 22:32 BradenKuntz wrote: Why no Huk?
He didn't qualify.
Anyways, overall the player list looks freaking awesome! I'm pretty sadface about the map pool though. Either way I'm sure some great games will be produced and MVP will win a lot of money this weekend between winning GSL and the BlizzCON tourney. Can't wait to watch everything!
Xel'Naga Caverns Shakuras Plateau The Shattered Temple Antiga Shipyard Abyssal Caverns WTF? Does anyone in blizzard even comprehend how bad their maps are and how good maps ie. GSL, IPL and NASL have? I seriously wouldn´t be surprised if they still had close spawns on shattered temple.
On October 20 2011 18:26 ViperPL wrote: Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
There were qualifiers for each server, there's a Russian server...what in the fuck do you have a problem with exactly?
Why in the fuck was Strelok and Whitera in the EU qualifier and Dimaga in the Russian?
On October 20 2011 18:26 ViperPL wrote: Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
There were qualifiers for each server, there's a Russian server...what in the fuck do you have a problem with exactly?
Why in the fuck was Strelok and Whitera in the EU qualifier and Dimaga in the Russian?
I guess because Dimaga plays on the RU server more than Strelok & White-Ra? Blizzard has their own way of picking players, so I can't say that with certainty, but I seriously doubt they would invite players that haven't been playing on the server in question.
On October 20 2011 23:35 AluXez wrote: I dont understand this. In this interview at about 3:40 Justin Browder says "we make our mappool for ladder, for ladder-players".
Then why are they using it in a turnament for 50k?
+1 to this. Later he even says 'what happens in ladder is not appropriate for tournaments'
If Blizzard were delusional enough to believe that their maps were great for tournaments I could understand them using ladder maps for Blizzcon. However, they have clearly stated that their maps are not intended for tournament play, yet they still use them...
On the other hand, the player list is awesome and as several tournaments have shown, as long as the games are good people will forget everything else
im really interested in seeing major hes been to korea quite some weeks now and is kind of a dark horse havent seen anything from him since he moved there
On October 20 2011 18:26 ViperPL wrote: Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
There were qualifiers for each server, there's a Russian server...what in the fuck do you have a problem with exactly?
Why in the fuck was Strelok and Whitera in the EU qualifier and Dimaga in the Russian?
I guess because Dimaga plays on the RU server more than Strelok & White-Ra? Blizzard has their own way of picking players, so I can't say that with certainty, but I seriously doubt they would invite players that haven't been playing on the server in question.
On October 21 2011 00:04 MoooN1 wrote: im really interested in seeing major hes been to korea quite some weeks now and is kind of a dark horse havent seen anything from him since he moved there
before he was one of the very best outside korea
what is he capable of now ?
Exact same goes for Naniwa tho (his first opponent) ^__^
Dimaga and white-ra represented Russia last year because they are considered partially ruassian. There were no qualifiers last year. This year there were EU qualifiers but Dimaga was not considered top 8 european when they invited the people to blizzcon eu Qualifier, White Ra was. Thats why White Ra was invited there but not Dimaga. Later on Dimaga had proven hes skill again, and BratOK were considered the only world class true russian, so Blizzard decided to give Dimaga the other russian spot. White Ra already had a failed to qualify, so Blizzard did not want invite him even thou he might be considered better than Dimaga.
On October 21 2011 00:48 iAmBiGbiRd wrote: mOOnGlaDe to win vs MVP first game and everyone's head will explode
I don't quite agree with you my friend.
MVP takes this with some effort invested. But I hope I'm wrong; he's the best player ATM but isn't by any means "one level above others" and some other stuff I keep hear about him here in TL.
GSL Finals friday night, Blizzcon Finals is Saturday night, I guess it's good to spread it out but it would make for a much better barcraft to have both finals back to back
The map choice is actually making my brain explode from frustration. How can they put in these maps when they have clearly said before they were ladder maps not tournament maps. Now they're using them for a $50,000 tournament. I'm sorry to say but quite a few matches will not be good or come close to what they could have been in a different map pool. Blizzards stubborn approach to picking the maps for these tournaments will cause most people to not take the matches seriously. No matter who wins there will not be as much weight behind it as what there could have been. I am disappointed and fear they won't ever realize how bad the maps are.
Is there any way we can get the community behind a message to Blizzard about changing the maps? Reddit? This is more than absurd, its all out retarded choices of maps.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport?
Because Dimaga is Ukranian and I imagine the person who wanted him to crush Nestea is not. That's rooting for the white guy over the Korean. It's not like I rooted against the Canadian Olympic hockey team because Jarome Iginla was on it.
On topic, normally I'd say MVP is almost a lock to take this with the player pool but he'll be practicing for the Code S finals on a completely different map pool, so who knows?
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
I definitely can understand rooting for your own country, or even for foreigners as a whole. What I think is completely retarded is this "Only koreans left, time to sign out" or stuff like that. If you like starcraft you will enjoy the best of the best matches. Your heart might not be too too thrilled, but your head certainly should be interested. That if you like starcraft.
I like football (soccer). I love it when my national team wins, or when Man U wins. I will definitely watch if Barcelona and Real Madrid (insert a different great team) end up reaching the UCL finals. I will certainly watch if Brazil and Spain reach the world cup finals. If the match is exciting I will enjoy it very much. Like I said, I like football.
maps could have more variety, I don't agree with close position even though I'm a terran player but atleast ill learn how to do good 2raxs' this weekend so i can get more ladder wins
On October 19 2011 04:53 Stark1 wrote: "Sean "Day[9]" Plott will dual-cast with JP McDaniel."
WHY? I can understand Day9, but was no one else available? JP does fine as a host, but his commentary is lacking to say the least; this will certainly be a less enjoyable event with him aboard.
I know right? I'd love to have a little Day [9] + Husky. They mesh so well together.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
I definitely can understand rooting for your own country, or even for foreigners as a whole. What I think is completely retarded is this "Only koreans left, time to sign out" or stuff like that. If you like starcraft you will enjoy the best of the best matches. Your heart might not be too too thrilled, but your head certainly should be interested. That if you like starcraft.
I like football (soccer). I love it when my national team wins, or when Man U wins. I will definitely watch if Barcelona and Real Madrid (insert a different great team) end up reaching the UCL finals. I will certainly watch if Brazil and Spain reach the world cup finals. If the match is exciting I will enjoy it very much. Like I said, I like football.
It's very logical.
Honestly, I'm not even bothered by the people who lose interest when the competition is all Korean. It's perfectly natural to do that. The worst is when people constantly downplay every Korean win and say stuff like "GO BACK TO KOREA BIATCH" every time foreigners win. Of course, bias is natural too. But being a fan does not mean you have to be a blind, ignorant hater.
On October 21 2011 03:23 aintz wrote: loner is BACK, the only chinese players thats not completely terrible!
XiGua?
Eh...Idk if he was just having a bad tournament or something, but Xigua was far from impressive at IEM. He's supposed to be the best Chinese player as well if I'm not mistaken -_-
On October 21 2011 12:17 Scarecrow wrote: It baffles me how blizzard remains so clueless map-wise...
Come on now, you don't need to be nice and specify their map-choice cluelessness. They're clueless about a lot more than that when it comes to making a good competitive game/tournament.
I'm pretty sure MVP is practicing his 2 rax as we speak for this tournament. haha
So much fail coming from this Blizzcon tournament. Hopefully the SC2 developers will at least watch some of the tournament and see how god awful these shitty maps are.
I am trying to buy a virtual ticket for blizzcon but when i enter my phone extension nr which is +46 for Sweden this is what i get: "INVALID PHONE EXTENSION".
why cant someone just add the times so they can be seen to the right? craftcup, playhem and all sorts of small noname tournaments are there, but not blizzcon :S
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
Racial bias. Nice to see, it's refreshing to see people wanting a lesser skilled player to win simply because they're "not korean". This is simply counter-intuitive to life; "I want the people that do not work as hard to beat people that work hard"
At the end of the day a lot of foreigners ackowledge that Korea is where you need to go to get better so it doesn't matter what you say. Your idols acknowledge that Koreans > foreigners.
On October 21 2011 17:35 Meiffeltower wrote: So.. first starcraft 2 match is in what?.. 8 hours 30min ?.. Are they streaming all games and is it free to look ?
Seeing this kind of map pool one year after release really worries me about the future of sc2. It's scary how out of touch with the community they are, they have a ton of great community guys who could help them, but they don't take advantage of it. It's really sad, they are really wasting something. I don't know if they realise how e-sport can benefit them. I was not really into gaming before I discovered sc2 during beta. I watched hd and husky and it brought me to this community, and now I will buy sc2 expansions, but also diablo which i would never have bought if it wasn't for starcraft. So sad .
On October 21 2011 16:46 Trigger1101 wrote: Can anyone help me ?
I am trying to buy a virtual ticket for blizzcon but when i enter my phone extension nr which is +46 for Sweden this is what i get: "INVALID PHONE EXTENSION".
On October 21 2011 17:35 Meiffeltower wrote: So.. first starcraft 2 match is in what?.. 8 hours 30min ?.. Are they streaming all games and is it free to look ?
yeah.. i saw the schedule.. and it starts 12PM PDT?.. isnt that 1900 CEST?.. im confused :S usually there is a thing at the TL calander with a countdown..
On October 21 2011 17:35 Meiffeltower wrote: So.. first starcraft 2 match is in what?.. 8 hours 30min ?.. Are they streaming all games and is it free to look ?
yeah.. i saw the schedule.. and it starts 12PM PDT?.. isnt that 1900 CEST?.. im confused :S usually there is a thing at the TL calander with a countdown..
On October 21 2011 03:23 aintz wrote: loner is BACK, the only chinese players thats not completely terrible!
XiGua?
Eh...Idk if he was just having a bad tournament or something, but Xigua was far from impressive at IEM. He's supposed to be the best Chinese player as well if I'm not mistaken -_-
Does xiaOt still play anymore? I always had him pegged as the best chinese player.
On October 21 2011 03:23 aintz wrote: loner is BACK, the only chinese players thats not completely terrible!
XiGua?
Eh...Idk if he was just having a bad tournament or something, but Xigua was far from impressive at IEM. He's supposed to be the best Chinese player as well if I'm not mistaken -_-
Does xiaOt still play anymore? I always had him pegged as the best chinese player.
On October 21 2011 19:39 Marke wrote: So... you cant watch the tournament at all if u dont pay?
All tournament games, SC2 and WoW, and the opening ceremony are free to watch in low quality. You only have to pay to watch all the panel and lore crap and to watch in 720p.
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
Racial bias. Nice to see, it's refreshing to see people wanting a lesser skilled player to win simply because they're "not korean". This is simply counter-intuitive to life; "I want the people that do not work as hard to beat people that work hard"
At the end of the day a lot of foreigners ackowledge that Korea is where you need to go to get better so it doesn't matter what you say. Your idols acknowledge that Koreans > foreigners.
Thats a pretty heavy zerg pool if the player lucks out and has no close positions. Minus Xel naga of course. Sit with tanks at gold.. push, win. Shakuras is even though. Abysall and antiga are a nightmare though. Hope to see MVP win I can't root against him.
I probably said this already but doesn't it make so much sense that the biggest SC2 tournament would conclude at Blizzcon? Surprised they didn't do this when the game came out. I would be surprised about Brood War if that KESPA thing never happened but yeah this is awesome.
On October 21 2011 21:20 lynx.oblige wrote: I probably said this already but doesn't it make so much sense that the biggest SC2 tournament would conclude at Blizzcon? Surprised they didn't do this when the game came out. I would be surprised about Brood War if that KESPA thing never happened but yeah this is awesome.
The $175 tickets are kind of crazy, though. I think the GSL finals are always free to attend.
On October 21 2011 21:20 lynx.oblige wrote: I probably said this already but doesn't it make so much sense that the biggest SC2 tournament would conclude at Blizzcon? Surprised they didn't do this when the game came out. I would be surprised about Brood War if that KESPA thing never happened but yeah this is awesome.
The $175 tickets are kind of crazy, though. I think the GSL finals are always free to attend.
Well, $175 is for Blizzcon tickets - GSL finals is simply a bonus. The tickets went on sale long before it was even announced that the October finals will be held at that event.
On October 21 2011 21:20 lynx.oblige wrote: I probably said this already but doesn't it make so much sense that the biggest SC2 tournament would conclude at Blizzcon? Surprised they didn't do this when the game came out. I would be surprised about Brood War if that KESPA thing never happened but yeah this is awesome.
The $175 tickets are kind of crazy, though. I think the GSL finals are always free to attend.
Well, $175 is for Blizzcon tickets - GSL finals is simply a bonus. The tickets went on sale long before it was even announced that the October finals will be held at that event.
I agree it's just a bonus here, but I was giving a reason not to have the biggest tournament finals at Blizzcon. The entry price limits the audience (especially for people just interested in Starcraft).
On October 19 2011 15:25 ch33psh33p wrote: Bayyne, you can say what you want, but when Dimaga gets crushed, well we can come back to this. To suggest Dimaga can take down MVP is silly. He has maybe a 10% chance, if MVP is sick or something.
lol. Last time Dimaga crushed Nestea. This isn't Brood war where Koreans have complete dominance. It's SC2 where foreigners stand an equal chance.
Also, I seriously don't understand why some westerners/foreigners want Koreans to dominate the scene. They would rather root for a korean rather then somebody in their own country. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
What's pretty retarded if you ask me is how ignorant people like you are. Some of us don't give a shit what color their skin is but rather, how well they play. And no this isn't bw, foreigners definitely have a chance, but they aren't equal whatsoever. The best foreigners are on par with the above average koreans, not the top. And overall, the average foreigner is no where near the average korean. Which foreigner has an equal chance vs mvp and nestea? I really wanna know. Get your nationalistic ego out of here. I'm a caucasian American and I'll root for koreans anyday.
I salute you. I wish more people were like you.
I see tons of posts by people like that moron and they are obviously prejudiced against Koreans.
How is it any different than rooting for your country in any other sport? Stop calling others morons for disagreeing with you, seriously. I want foreigners to win. I don't care about seeing the best of the best matches, I want my part of the world to do well. Who are you to say my opinion is 'moronic'? Don't get me wrong, I love a good match, but I'd rather see a foreigner win.
As for one post up in the quotes, the best foreigners are on par with the top Koreans, minus the two select individuals you mentioned maybe. After the top foreigners it goes downhill pretty fast, I'll give you that, but there are enough foreigners who give the best Koreans a run for their money.
Racial bias. Nice to see, it's refreshing to see people wanting a lesser skilled player to win simply because they're "not korean". This is simply counter-intuitive to life; "I want the people that do not work as hard to beat people that work hard"
At the end of the day a lot of foreigners ackowledge that Korea is where you need to go to get better so it doesn't matter what you say. Your idols acknowledge that Koreans > foreigners.
I know it's a shame that I still had not figured out all these time zones, but still, could somebody answer me; I see in the events bar that Blizzcon will be happening in 2 hours, but on the Blizzard schedule it says that the first SC2 match will be played only after two hours from the start, so, I am a lil' bit confused, is it 2 hours for BlizzCupSC2 or 4 hours.
On October 22 2011 01:45 Hemula wrote: I know it's a shame that I still had not figured out all these time zones, but still, could somebody answer me; I see in the events bar that Blizzcon will be happening in 2 hours, but on the Blizzard schedule it says that the first SC2 match will be played only after two hours from the start, so, I am a lil' bit confused, is it 2 hours for BlizzCupSC2 or 4 hours.
The first SC2 match is schedule to start in 2 hours.
On October 21 2011 21:20 lynx.oblige wrote: I probably said this already but doesn't it make so much sense that the biggest SC2 tournament would conclude at Blizzcon? Surprised they didn't do this when the game came out. I would be surprised about Brood War if that KESPA thing never happened but yeah this is awesome.
The $175 tickets are kind of crazy, though. I think the GSL finals are always free to attend.
Well, $175 is for Blizzcon tickets - GSL finals is simply a bonus. The tickets went on sale long before it was even announced that the October finals will be held at that event.
Holy shit . I could think of a helluva lot useful things i can buy for 175 $ that will last for a lot more then 3 days , but being a 3 day event i could see why blizzard is charging so much .
Live streaming coverage and replays of the tournaments are available online for FREE. To view the streams in HD and gain access to all panels, interviews, contests, and the closing concert, upgrade to the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket.
Live streaming coverage and replays of the tournaments are available online for FREE. To view the streams in HD and gain access to all panels, interviews, contests, and the closing concert, upgrade to the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket.
The HQ stream that was available during the qualifiers was probably the best quality stream I've seen, but I don't think it's worth it to pay 30$ for three days of which I probably won't watch more than 2-3 hours a day.
On October 22 2011 02:20 Andamanen wrote: Low quality stream for the tournaments is free.
edit: As they say on the streaming page:
Live streaming coverage and replays of the tournaments are available online for FREE. To view the streams in HD and gain access to all panels, interviews, contests, and the closing concert, upgrade to the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket.
The HQ stream that was available during the qualifiers was probably the best quality stream I've seen, but I don't think it's worth it to pay 30$ for three days of which I probably won't watch more than 2-3 hours a day.
It's actually only two days. For me it's not worth the money and on top of that most of the show will happen when it's night over here in europe so I'll just enjoy the free lq stream.
AMAZING production, as expected by Blizzard; seeing Tastosis with that huge crowd behind them was jaw-dropping. Cuts right to previews of players, well produced, sooo pumped to see everything these next couple of days!!!
God is this casting all going to be extremely noob friendly? "Oh, he's supply blocked. Which means he has more food and needs to build another supply depot before he can make more men!" the whole time?
On October 22 2011 04:16 Al Bundy wrote: When Naniwa was down to a handful of units, Should Major have unsieged his tanks? I feel that he could have performed some interesting micro there.
the two seige tanks with the protoss units in that choke just got destroyed so i feel that them being seiged up was a good idea.
I like the way that instead of having the webcam output as an overlay on the screen, they take up half of the screen and make the match display really small.
On October 22 2011 04:13 Sliver wrote: God is this casting all going to be extremely noob friendly? "Oh, he's supply blocked. Which means he has more food and needs to build another supply depot before he can make more men!" the whole time?
I think it won't last. Maybe in the beginning of the games, but they'll get excited soon and forget about it
On October 22 2011 04:13 Sliver wrote: God is this casting all going to be extremely noob friendly? "Oh, he's supply blocked. Which means he has more food and needs to build another supply depot before he can make more men!" the whole time?
I think it won't last. Maybe in the beginning of the games, but they'll get excited soon and forget about it
I love how Day[9] observes, it's really really smooth and he isn't missing anything important.
wtf naniwa? youve been training for months in Korea and you choose to go for a fakeout nexus into a super delayed 4 gate that put him massively behind?!
On October 22 2011 04:26 paintfive wrote: wtf naniwa? youve been training for months in Korea and you choose to go for a fakeout nexus into a super delayed 4 gate that put him massively behind?!
Against a 1rax expand. You would think that your massive attack would do damage ( and it needed to).
Wonder if it would have been possible to sit hte army at the bottom of the ramp while getting his expo up as well. Warp in tech seemed nice. After that he was juts so far behind. Major had insane ups compared to nani.
Naniwa's not entirely wrong. If Majorran hadn't gone for a build order with such a fast siege mode (before startport), he would have rolled over and died when Nani attacked.
Also Ret falling round 1 as predicted by Artosis, he's better with this than with GSL predictions ^^
On October 22 2011 07:40 krisbin wrote: This tournament is just a joke except a couple of players. Would like to see that Blizzard treat esports with more passion.
pretty sure they just want to show games from players from all the various countries first, rather than just showing all the best series.
Uhhhhhhhh... when's the finals? The Blizzard site says 4 pm Saturday. If it's Eastern time, then the finals would have been three hours ago, but the results aren't up yet on Liquipedia. If it's Pacific time, then it should have started twenty minutes ago, but I don't see any streams. I'm confused. edit: it says PDT. Does Blizzcon not have free live streaming?
EPT![[image loading]](http://us.media4.battle.net/cms/blog_header/9UCNTQ8BO8DY1318867191745.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/f/fb/Ru.png)
BlizzCon 2011 StarCraft II Invitational/Main Tournament 
ESP. Considering shattered will most likely have clos positions.
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took games off and definitely see potential, gl next time 
MvP to rape!
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