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On October 20 2011 08:40 itkovian wrote:
Wow, a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon here and shitting on blizzard's maps. They're really not that bad.They are obviously not the best maps, but that doesn't mean they're terrible. The only problem with a lot of them is possible close spawn positions. And just because the map has clown spawn possibility doesn't mean its gonna automatically be a close spawn cheesy game.
Give blizz the chance to showcase some of their own maps a bit. I mean a lot of these are pretty standard tourny maps anyway (antiga, shakuras, shattered, xnc). I feel like people just see blizzard made maps and write them off as dumb because its the cool thing to hate on blizzard.
Close spawns only makes cheese a little harder to hold. Macro games/timing pushes, on the other hand, are a guaranteed loss for zerg on these maps (who needs a third right?). The people who 4gate when they see close spawns are stupid (though 2rax pressure is sick good).
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whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
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On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled.
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On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok
i dont want to sound too aggressive, but why do you think that _no_ tournament use this kinds of maps? Even blizzard said that their ladder lappool is not for tournament use but for casuals.
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On October 19 2011 05:04 Draconicfire wrote:
Oh man, terrible maps.
And tbh I rather see Husky than JP. Husky + Day9 FTW.
+1
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If I'm not mistaken... wasn't it blizzard themselves who agreed that their maps are terrible for tournament play and shouldn't be used as such?
I guess double standards has no meaning to activision =\
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Maybe, just maybe, they misspelled the names or forgot to add that close spawns won't be enabled... just maybe...
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On October 20 2011 14:59 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled.
Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments.
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On October 20 2011 13:35 nicknack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 13:03 SpoR wrote:
Invite only tournament (no way for players around the world to earn their spot)
There were qualifiers.....
Those qualifiers were based on invites.....
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These maps........................
Blizzard........ why do you have to ruin your own tournament with stupid maps? :S
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I wonder how many of the players have played abyssal caverns more than once. Hopefully players can veto maps, so all the Zergs will veto shattered and most other players abyssal caverns, which would leave us with a fairly good map pool, except non X positions antiga.
The map pool looks small though, so I'm not sure there will be a veto system, I can definetly imagine some Activision board discussing how it won't look good if pro players 'reject' maps.
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On October 20 2011 16:55 Klyberess wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:59 JJH777 wrote:On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled. Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments.
Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it.
Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans.
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On October 20 2011 17:06 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 16:55 Klyberess wrote:On October 20 2011 14:59 JJH777 wrote:On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled. Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments. Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it. Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans.
There's no doubt it'll get closer to 50% as more games are played, but it's still quite clear that it's a zerg favoured map, esp. against toss.
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Guys what's the difference between GSL Antiga and Blizzard Antiga except for the neutral supply depot's? Currently at school so I can't check it out for myself.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
i don't see how abyssal caverns is terran-favored. the main and natural are so tiny that terrans have hard time placing their buildings with add-ons there. and there are plenty of wide areas where chargelots and zerg units feel very comfortable. i personally hate this map.
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On October 20 2011 17:21 Klyberess wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 17:06 JJH777 wrote:On October 20 2011 16:55 Klyberess wrote:On October 20 2011 14:59 JJH777 wrote:On October 20 2011 14:39 awesomo0O wrote:
whats so wrong with the maps? except xelnaga caverns and abysal cavern they look ok Shattered is almost 60% TvZ without close spawns enabled. Well, it's 57% TvZ and 59% ZvP. Still very balanced compared to a map like Dual Sight (70% ZvP), and the latter sees plenty of use in tournaments. Dual Sight is still a new map and doesn't have anywhere near the amount of games as shattered temple. You can't take that 70% as fact when its less than 40 games. ST has nearly 500 (over 600 counting close spawn version) for TvZ. Also worth noting is the ST version before close spawns were removed has over 70% win ratio for Terran at a time when Terran was doing the worst it has ever done overall with 140 games on it. Also about Dual Sight ZvP adding in the international games and it's only 58%. I know as a whole the foreign scene is still pretty useless for determining balance but I think the absolute top level foreigners are at least code a level and scrolling through the list it seems like most of these games are pretty much top level foreigners with a few exceptions. A good amount of them even have koreans. There's no doubt it'll get closer to 50% as more games are played, but it's still quite clear that it's a zerg favoured map, esp. against toss.
If you agree that it will get closer to 50% then I don't see how you can argue it is more imbalanced in Z favor than Shattered Temple is in T favor. Especially considering that this ST will be close positions which is over 70% with far more games than Dual Sight. Not to mention Dual Sights stats are actually T favored in TvZ in both TLPDs.
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great maps great players it will be a nice tournament!
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I have no idea what the blizzard is thinking about the maps. Its kinda hard no to get the feeling blizzard doesnt give a singel fuck.
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Edit: Wrong thread, sorry.
Just gonna leave my opinion on the maps: A little bit bad but nothing too critical I guess.
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Why there are 2 players qualified through Russia? And more importantly, why was Ukraine part of that qualifier? What, these guys are some 2nd rate Europeans that they had to be kept separately?
Maps are terrible, terrible... well, that's all we can say about the pool. Abyssal Caverns, fo real ?
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EPT
