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On October 16 2011 11:30 Clank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:27 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms. so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
If he stays in the US for long enough, yes.
I'm not familiar with basketball, sorry. In football there is a clear distinction made between, for example, South American players who stay in the local leagues vs those who go to Europe. There's no similar terminology though.
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On October 16 2011 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Chess is a pretty bad example in this particular case, since chess players tend to play for whatever country they are currently residing in. America has tons of players who are considered American and have won US Opens and such, but didn't spend much time here. Anyway I see where he is coming from. I consider SelecT a NA player even though he's obviously not, and HuK has spent enough time overseas that his pedigree is more Korean than NA.
He was in Korea for a year, he lived outside of Korea for like 20. I know you meant playing and training SC2, but that just simply does not make him Korean. Being Korean has pretty well defined attributes in English and HuK does not satisfy them. As I said saying "training in Korea" (or some synonym) is not that hard, is more precise and clear and would prevent this endless discussions, where one side unnecessarily tries to create their own lingo with new definitions of words and the other side is then confused by sentences not making sense in standard English.
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On October 16 2011 11:32 FaRess wrote:
how do you guys know about stephano drewbie ?
It was streamed during the break, and we could see their computer screens. Drewbie / Stephano on the left, Incontrol / Polt on the right.
We could see drewbie GG before it cut back into the broadcasted game.
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On October 16 2011 11:30 Clank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:27 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms. so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
This has been debated to death. It's a pointless argument and no one's going to budge on their respective positions.
Bottomline is: foreigners are going to cheer for IdrA as if he were "one of them" even if he spends years in Korea, as he did in BW. Yet, they're not going to do the same for Flash or Jaedong.
Accept it and move on.
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On October 16 2011 11:23 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:18 railstay wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 16 2011 10:43 Zeroxk wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 dmnum wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 DystopiaX wrote:On October 16 2011 10:38 dmnum wrote:On October 16 2011 10:36 DystopiaX wrote:On October 16 2011 10:35 Ausfailia wrote:On October 16 2011 10:34 Icky wrote:
Not over yet, and all.. But I have to say, as a casual Starcraft 2 watcher, if Koreans keep winning MLGs I'm just going to stop bothering entirely. Why, were you not entertained by that game? Why does it matter where they come from? Was that game not intense and exciting? If a player's nationality is what prevents you from watching esports why even bother? Some people doesn't enjoy seeing a tourney roster and knowing which players will finish top 6. It's his opinion, are you that intolerant? There are more than 6 Koreans, and if pool play shows us anything it's that foreigners are more than capable of making it top 6 anyway. SC is about the games, not about where people are from. You want SC2 to be an e-sport, right? Soccer is all about the games too, yet I don't cheer for barcelona because they are the best team in the world, I cheer for flamengo because they are the team from my country. Soccer is a team sport, SC2 is more comparable to tennis or golf, Do you perhaps not root for Federer or Tiger Woods? There's not much point in complaining about people cheering for their own country. The Koreans do the same and no one ever blames them. Like Tasteless was saying, Koreans won't even watch a sport unless Koreans are winning it. + Show Spoiler +
This is simply not true. My father was a Yankees fan ever since he was a teenager in South Korea. He didn't even own a television set. He'd watch the games on horrible reception whenever he had a chance to go to a major city. In an Olympic setting, would South Koreans root for their national team? Of course they would, but the important thing is that they ultimately respect
the game.
Whoever you root for is who you choose to root for. What's ridiculous is to say that you're a StarCraft fan and then in the next breath say you blatantly refuse to watch any games with Koreans in it. So basically you are...
1. Being prejudice. Not racist, but prejudice. The best players in the world are Korean. You are refusing to watch the best players simply because they are Korean.
2. Not respecting the game. Refusing to watch games based on reason #1 means you don't care about seeing good games. All you care about is seeing foreigners play.
3. Ignorant. You are denying yourself the opportunity to watch the best StarCraft 2 players in the world.
I'm a soccer fan. When the United States or South Korean national teams are playing, of course I'll cheer in their favor, but when they inevitably get knocked out I don't stop watching the game. I watch it all the way to the finals. Why? Because I respect the game and those who play it on the highest level. The sport takes precedent over the nationalism.
The last thing StarCraft should become is a xenophobic mouthpiece for nationalistic circlejerks. Respect the players. Respect the game. There are good foreigners and there are good Koreans, but if foreign scene can't respect the game, then it will always be subpar to the Korean scene.
Also, the basketball scene in China is getting much better too. Guess what the best selling NBA jersey in China is? If you guessed Yao Ming you are dead wrong.
The best selling NBA jersey in China is Kobe Bryant. Then it's Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson.... Yao Ming is actually #10.
Oh god the drama, few people don't want to watch the game if their favorite players are not in it, deal with it. Or you can go a clockwork orange on his ass and force him the games.
Then you like the players more than the game itself.
That's fine as long as you're honest about it but I'd rather watch the games through (specifically if they're high-level games) to lend my support to the game. The human drama is nice, the personalities are nice and the fan following is nice, but ultimately what I love is the game.
Like Day[9] says, "I don't have a favorite player. Whoever is doing well in a game is my favorite player."
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On October 16 2011 11:32 JohnnyBanana wrote:
Sooo where is Stephano vs Drewbie?
All I see is Inori vs Slush and KR vs Tyler.
not streamed, 1-0 Stephano atm
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On October 16 2011 11:33 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:32 FaRess wrote:
how do you guys know about stephano drewbie ? It was streamed during the break. Drewbie / Stephano on the left, Incontrol / Polt on the right. We could see drewbie GG before it cut back into the broadcasted game.
That is some serious ninja observing.
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Kawaii getting a Barracks, Tyler getting a gate. lolsurprise
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On October 16 2011 11:34 NuclearJudas wrote:Kawaii getting a Barracks, Tyler getting a gate. lolsurprise Tyler gets his first gas
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On October 16 2011 11:33 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Chess is a pretty bad example in this particular case, since chess players tend to play for whatever country they are currently residing in. America has tons of players who are considered American and have won US Opens and such, but didn't spend much time here. Anyway I see where he is coming from. I consider SelecT a NA player even though he's obviously not, and HuK has spent enough time overseas that his pedigree is more Korean than NA. He was in Korea for a year, he lived outside of Korea for like 20. I know you meant playing and training SC2, but that just simply does not make him Korean. Being Korean has pretty well defined attributes in English and HuK does not satisfy them. As I said saying "training in Korea" (or some synonym) is not that hard, is more precise and clear and would prevent this endless discussions, where one side unnecessarily tries to create their own lingo with new definitions of words and the other side is then confused by sentences not making sense in standard English.
He is not of korean descent but he can be considered a Korean SC2 player as most of his TIme with SC2 has been in korea
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On October 16 2011 11:31 minhbq299 wrote:
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
Every time I see @WhiteRaSC I'm in awe. Inori was late so he lost his first match, WhiteRa wanted the match to start 0-0.
Wow so manner. Please get whitera in for Providence, he can fare much better than Tyler and Incontrol, Tlo, Drewbie, He has been consistently making out of the open bracket, but still not getting enough point.
More special tactik pleasssssssssse.
White-ra might be the most lovable public persona I have ever seen. He's very nice, and unlike other peoples, you can truly believe that he means it. That being said is quite sad that some people who haven't been doing so well lately can manage to keep being seeded while guys who deserve it like white-ra and some others can't make it. I'm glad MLG will change it's format.
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On October 16 2011 11:34 NuclearJudas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:34 NuclearJudas wrote:Kawaii getting a Barracks, Tyler getting a gate. lolsurprise Tyler gets his first gas
Kawaii getting his MULE-maker and Tyler getting his Core.
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United States7483 Posts
Well, that was a dumb build by Inori.
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On October 16 2011 11:27 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Or you can respect the definitions of terms brought over from Starcraft 1.
Was Idra considered Korean in Starcraft 1 ? As far as I can tell calling HuK foreigner does not actually violate any definitions brought over from Starcraft 1.
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Never knew that, thank you  .
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On October 16 2011 11:33 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:27 Cel.erity wrote:On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote:On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote:On October 16 2011 11:15 K3Nyy wrote:On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 16 2011 11:12 LorDo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote:
Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears* Huk is not Korean. Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far. To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations. When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean. Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean. That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings. Chess is a pretty bad example in this particular case, since chess players tend to play for whatever country they are currently residing in. America has tons of players who are considered American and have won US Opens and such, but didn't spend much time here. Anyway I see where he is coming from. I consider SelecT a NA player even though he's obviously not, and HuK has spent enough time overseas that his pedigree is more Korean than NA. He was in Korea for a year, he lived outside of Korea for like 20. I know you meant playing and training SC2, but that just simply does not make him Korean. Being Korean has pretty well defined attributes in English and HuK does not satisfy them. As I said saying "training in Korea" (or some synonym) is not that hard, is more precise and clear and would prevent this endless discussions, where one side unnecessarily tries to create their own lingo with new definitions of words and the other side is then confused by sentences not making sense in standard English.
Every sub-culture has its own lingo and altered word definitions. In this case, on TL, "Korean" and "Foreigner" don't mean exactly what the dictionary says. Get used to it.
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On October 16 2011 11:35 Whitewing wrote:
Well, that was a dumb build by Inori.
Build is fine, getting zerglings in your base is not
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On October 16 2011 11:35 Whitewing wrote:
Well, that was a dumb build by Inori.
not so much the build, just the fact that he didn't hold the lings in.
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On October 16 2011 11:35 NuclearJudas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:34 NuclearJudas wrote:On October 16 2011 11:34 NuclearJudas wrote:Kawaii getting a Barracks, Tyler getting a gate. lolsurprise Tyler gets his first gas Kawaii getting his MULE-maker and Tyler getting his Core.
KR expanding on 1 rax. Tyler researching Warp Gate, getting a Stalker and getting his Nexus. 2 Additional Barracks going up for KR, as well as 2 gas.
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EPT
