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On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone?
Of course zerg need their gas for much more than terrans late game, what is to question about that?
You will only see a zerg going for very fast upgrades when he is for example going for pure ling like Stephano does sometimes.
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interesting build from ryung, reminds me more of tvt builds
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On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech?
Protoss is the gas-heaviest race in the game -.-' Don't make excuses for skimping on upgrades.
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On October 07 2011 11:07 RedJustice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:04 RedJustice wrote:After Ryung wins game one,  Ryung spawning as the Red Terran in the 12:00 position.  Ret spawning as the Blue Zerg in the 3:00 position. 2:00 - Ret reveals position with overlord and takes his hatch first, and gas before pool. 3:30 - Ryung builds his factory directly in the wall. Not adding a reactor to his rax. 4:10 - Ryung throws down second CC while Ret getting speed and 2 queens. 4:40 - Ryung getting a starport and a tech lab on the rax.
5:30 - Ryung's starport and rax swap to tech lab. Ret now has 4 queens.
6:20 - Ryung getting more rax and a second tech lab on factory researching blue flame.
7:00 - Banshee moves in and only gets a few kills before being chased away.
7:20 - Combat shields researching, lair halfway done.
8:00 - Ryung has established his natural while building a medivac, marine, blue flame hellion mix.
8:15 - Ret getting +1 attack.
9:30 - Ret getting bane nest and starts third.
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United States15275 Posts
On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech?
Like a zerg can't afford consistent upgrades off 4 base. Mind you, Ret was extremely late in taking his third and threw away lots of units in bad engagements.
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On October 07 2011 11:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech? Protoss is the gas-heaviest race in the game -.-' Don't make excuses for skimping on upgrades.
I didn't make an excuse. The guy asked a question. Zergs build fast mutas instead of getting fast armor upgrades for lings. It's pretty standard - there's nothing to argue about.
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anyone else notice ryung's insane macro while doing this attack lmao
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United States15275 Posts
On October 07 2011 11:08 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? Of course zerg need their gas for much more than terrans late game, what is to question about that? You will only see a zerg going for very fast upgrades when he is for example going for pure ling like Stephano does sometimes.
Fast upgrades are irrelevant. It's about consistency.
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crap.. all of a sudden im dealing with heavy lag.
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why is ret's supply 80/418?
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On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech?
I don't know cut at least some Mutas for Upgrades wouldn't hurt i'd say. Not like they are actually good for actual fights later anyway. And tbh alot of times the Zergs don't fully upgrades even if they are on big economys for some reason.
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On October 07 2011 11:12 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
why is ret's supply 80/418?
142*?
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On October 07 2011 11:08 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:58 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 10:56 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:54 Badfatpanda wrote:On October 07 2011 10:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:48 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 10:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:46 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 10:45 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
Puma You mean the guy that just got 3-0ed by Idra? :DDD I know it's adiff matchup but still. You mean the guy that has a 7-3 record against MC? PuMa is favored obviously but I don't think it's "I'll eat my shirt" worthy. I do. MC played well, but he has a lot of work to do and his MLG Orlando group is ridiculous. The only game I see him for sure winning is against Tyler. July, Huk and Hero all can beat him. I bet a shirt on it, this is not a matter I take lightly, I seriously doubt MC's ability to perform well enough to win Orlando over the other Koreans invited to the event and some of the top foreigners. completely agree. its much more likely that MC goes 1-3 in his group rather than 4-0. No MC is favored against everyone in that group except maybe july but even him he is like 8-1. MC still has the best pvp winrate and he 2-0ed huk. Hero is kind of ? in PvP but I doubt he's better than MC. Hero, Huk, and July have all been playing at a higher level recently. Huk has beaten MC before (Homestory Cup). If MC can lose to Monster, he can lose to July. And Hero is just a damn good player and knows MC very well. I wouldn't really say he is favored with his play as of late. Ryung is the only player at the level of Huk, Hero or July, but he is a TvT specialist and beating him in a TvP isn't that special. Hero and Huk havent really been playing better overall, and certainly not in PvP because we never see that. Huk just lost to alive and stephano. lost in assembly groups. lost in IEM cologne groups. Hero lost to thorzain in quite a silly fasion.
And MC hasn't won a series in GSL since July... But Huk and Hero have. MC would lose to alive and Stephano easily. And Thorzain is a beast in TvP. MC lost to Monster... Huk has been playing at a Code S level and Hero has been playing at a Code A level. MC has been playing at a Code B level. His play looks better today, but its really not that impressive. Even his WCG matches weren't anything special.
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On October 07 2011 11:10 RedJustice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:07 RedJustice wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 RedJustice wrote:After Ryung wins game one, Ryung spawning as the Red Terran in the 12:00 position. Ret spawning as the Blue Zerg in the 3:00 position. 2:00 - Ret reveals position with overlord and takes his hatch first, and gas before pool. 3:30 - Ryung builds his factory directly in the wall. Not adding a reactor to his rax. 4:10 - Ryung throws down second CC while Ret getting speed and 2 queens. 4:40 - Ryung getting a starport and a tech lab on the rax. 5:30 - Ryung's starport and rax swap to tech lab. Ret now has 4 queens. 6:20 - Ryung getting more rax and a second tech lab on factory researching blue flame. 7:00 - Banshee moves in and only gets a few kills before being chased away. 7:20 - Combat shields researching, lair halfway done. 8:00 - Ryung has established his natural while building a medivac, marine, blue flame hellion mix. 8:15 - Ret getting +1 attack. 9:30 - Ret getting bane nest and starts third.
*8:30 on last time
9:00 - Ryung poking at the middle lane with elevator tactics.
10:00 - Ret cleans up the attack but has lost 3 queens and a lot of lings. Ryung startings +1 attack and stim. Ret starting spire and bane speed.
10:50 - Ret starts +2 attack and a macro hatch. Lots of drones.
11:40 - 5 mutas for Ret, and Ryung takes his third while putting up turrets.
12:10 - Ret takes his fourth.
12:30 - Ryung poking through middle, but has no siege mode.
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On October 07 2011 11:10 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech? Like a zerg can't afford consistent upgrades off 4 base. Mind you, Ret was extremely late in taking his third and threw away lots of units in bad engagements.
You seem to ignore the circumstances of the game. He couldn't take a quick, relatively vulnerable third with all those marines and hellions outside his base.
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Ret lost because his third was late. He was outmacroed. He even threw away so many mutas.
End of story.
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On October 07 2011 11:12 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:08 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 11:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:58 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 10:56 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:54 Badfatpanda wrote:On October 07 2011 10:50 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:48 Olinim wrote:On October 07 2011 10:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 07 2011 10:46 Olinim wrote:
[quote]
You mean the guy that just got 3-0ed by Idra? :DDD I know it's adiff matchup but still. You mean the guy that has a 7-3 record against MC? PuMa is favored obviously but I don't think it's "I'll eat my shirt" worthy. I do. MC played well, but he has a lot of work to do and his MLG Orlando group is ridiculous. The only game I see him for sure winning is against Tyler. July, Huk and Hero all can beat him. I bet a shirt on it, this is not a matter I take lightly, I seriously doubt MC's ability to perform well enough to win Orlando over the other Koreans invited to the event and some of the top foreigners. completely agree. its much more likely that MC goes 1-3 in his group rather than 4-0. No MC is favored against everyone in that group except maybe july but even him he is like 8-1. MC still has the best pvp winrate and he 2-0ed huk. Hero is kind of ? in PvP but I doubt he's better than MC. Hero, Huk, and July have all been playing at a higher level recently. Huk has beaten MC before (Homestory Cup). If MC can lose to Monster, he can lose to July. And Hero is just a damn good player and knows MC very well. I wouldn't really say he is favored with his play as of late. Ryung is the only player at the level of Huk, Hero or July, but he is a TvT specialist and beating him in a TvP isn't that special. Hero and Huk havent really been playing better overall, and certainly not in PvP because we never see that. Huk just lost to alive and stephano. lost in assembly groups. lost in IEM cologne groups. Hero lost to thorzain in quite a silly fasion. And MC hasn't won a series in GSL since July... But Huk and Hero have. MC would lose to alive and Stephano easily. And Thorzain is a beast in TvP. MC lost to Monster... Huk has been playing at a Code S level and Hero has been playing at a Code A level. MC has been playing at a Code B level. His play looks better today, but its really not that impressive. Even his WCG matches weren't anything special. Lol no he wouldn't lose to alive and stephano. But I can tell you who he would win against. Sangho and NaDa hahaha.
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United States15275 Posts
On October 07 2011 11:12 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 11:10 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:08 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 07 2011 11:04 hitpoint wrote:On October 07 2011 11:02 Harbinger631 wrote:
3/3 marines are just silly vs 2/0 Zerg....why do Zergs skimp on upgrades? Costs too much gas. Mutas, banes, and infestors are pretty important. My ass. We've seen zergs lose so many games because they faced a terran army with better upgrades. Supernova vs DRG anyone? So what do you suggest? Fight marines with well upgraded zerglings and less tech? Like a zerg can't afford consistent upgrades off 4 base. Mind you, Ret was extremely late in taking his third and threw away lots of units in bad engagements. You seem to ignore the circumstances of the game. He couldn't take a quick, relatively vulnerable third with all those marines and hellions outside his base.
But he could have taken a normal, relatively safe third if he didn't invest in mutas that did diddly-squat. Instead he took a late third at nearly the same time as Ryung, made mutas that did diddly-squat, and transitioned into broodlords at a really bad time.
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EPT
