EPTYea i know, i said that below, it just doesnt feel like idra deserves to advance either solely based on that win and the fact that jinro beat him and techincally they are tied, aside from map score.
[IEM] Guangzhou - Day 2 - Page 69
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Executor1
1353 Posts
Yea i know, i said that below, it just doesnt feel like idra deserves to advance either solely based on that win and the fact that jinro beat him and techincally they are tied, aside from map score. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:00 Hierarch wrote: Apparently lol, just ask Dimaga or stephano what they think lol, it wasn't even that big of a deal since didn't the measure it takes the same amount of chained fungals to kill almost everything accept marines? u need 1 fungal more, because u would have to chain the fungals perfectly, but if u miss like 0.5s of a fungal, a stalker blink. so u have to stack them a bit and therefore u need 1 fungal more. | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
On October 02 2011 15:59 Daralii wrote: A barely noticeable fungal nerf ruined it, obviously! It's the NP nerf. Nobody cares about the fungal nerf. The NP nerf means you need corruptors to kill colossi, and it's hard to make both infestors (150 gas) and corruptors (100 gas). So if you want to do a heavy roach style you make hydras instead of infestors. It makes sense. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:00 Hierarch wrote: Apparently lol, just ask Dimaga or stephano what they think lol, it wasn't even that big of a deal since didn't the measure it takes the same amount of chained fungals to kill almost everything accept marines? I asked Dimaga, he responded by happily going roach/hydra/corruptor vs JYP. It's pretty obvious that since the patch the more interesting PvZ strats we'd been seen have been getting disregarded in favour of the old deathball approach or 2 base blink timings, and on the Zerg side of things players are readopting roach/hydra/corruptor giving us far less versatility in unit composition than we had before it  | ||
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
Haha bizzare but grats to him! Sorry Jinro | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:03 hitpoint wrote: It's the NP nerf, nobody cares about the fungal nerf. The NP nerf means you need corruptors to kill colossi, and it's hard to make both infestors (150 gas) and corruptors (100 gas). So if you want to do a heavy roach style you make hydras instead of infestors. It makes sense. Link me to one Korean ZvP that was decided by neural. | ||
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:02 Daralii wrote: I think it takes an extra fungal to kill anything armored, though that's hardly a big deal when you can pump out 10+ infestors at any given time and they all spawn with enough energy. You sure? I swore I heard something on like SOTG or on one of dj wheats' shows about it taking the same number of chained fungals, meh w/e fungal is still an insane spell regardless and infesters still have pathogen glands. | ||
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Grettin
42417 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote: For the love of God, yes..... 1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out 2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies. 3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!! I honestly think idra just gets lazy sometimes and says "well, I can macro well so that should be good enough..." and then he dies because he doesnt understand other people can macro too or can win because of something else entirely. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:02 Executor1 wrote: Yea i know, i said that below, it just doesnt feel like idra deserves to advance either solely based on that win and the fact that jinro beat him and techincally they are tied, aside from map score. u else should advance in a 3way tie? would be pretty unfair if idra doesnt advance, despite having better stats than the others. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On October 02 2011 15:59 Asha` wrote: His strats aren't really that outdated, just watch any PvZ since 1.4 hit. It's all back to basically the same old shit. Zergs are going roach/hydra/corruptor a lot and Protoss are trying to make a 3base deathball. Game was basically over as soon as the stargate was scouted and consequently never going to get even a bit of damage done. Utterly untouched Zerg economy was always going to run rampant. I don't think that is accurate, as the casters said, the Stargate was just too late to do anything. And in game1 he played a Blink Stalker push at around 115supply, but when he knocked at Idra's door there was a 180-190supply Zerg with the same amount of upgrades waiting for him. You have to know by now that this timing cannot do anything against a zerg which has not been harassed (Ret vs Naniwa on Shakuras at the Blizzard Invitational comes to mind, and that was like 2months ago, not the same army compositions but forge-expand into massive supply-deficit against a drone heavy zerg). | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
Remember son, whenever you lose to somebody on the ladder you have no right to think you're better than him no matter what happened in the game. ^^ . | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On October 02 2011 15:59 Asha` wrote: His strats aren't really that outdated, just watch any PvZ since 1.4 hit. It's all back to basically the same old shit. Zergs are going roach/hydra/corruptor a lot and Protoss are trying to make a 3base deathball. Game was basically over as soon as the stargate was scouted and consequently never going to get even a bit of damage done. Utterly untouched Zerg economy was always going to run rampant. Yes and no. Zergs may have reverted (though it might just be IdrA), but Protoss has not. Warp prism play is more popular than ever, and was used by Elfi to great effect against IdrA. In fact, I'd say the difference between Jim and Elfi is that Jim played predictable into the style that IdrA expected to face all along - the style that he's most experienced against (even if that experience consists of a lot of losses and balance whines), whereas Elfi tried something new. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:02 Maghetti wrote: I didn't think Jim played THAT bad that game. He was getting the right units, he was expanding the right way, he just didn't have macro as good as idra did, made some control mistakes, and worse of all for me, he didn't build enough cannons. Watching huk play that style you see lots of cannons and always has troops ready to stand the ground with cannons, units, and forcefields cutting up the attacking armies.He had the right idea. Huk has a much better understanding of PvZ (or maybe he just uses better builds) so he finds a way to get enough econ to support mass cannons. | ||
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JayJay_90
Germany1632 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On October 02 2011 15:59 Nurmis wrote: Elfi going 3-0 with 6-0 mapscore, one game gets shown. Idra goes 1-2 with 3-4 mapscore, every game gets shown :/ . More elfi plz! ! User was warned for this post | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
On October 02 2011 15:59 Asha` wrote: His strats aren't really that outdated, just watch any PvZ since 1.4 hit. It's all back to basically the same old shit. Zergs are going roach/hydra/corruptor a lot and Protoss are trying to make a 3base deathball. Game was basically over as soon as the stargate was scouted and consequently never going to get even a bit of damage done. Utterly untouched Zerg economy was always going to run rampant. There's no other choice. People point out the fungal change was barely noticable and they're right, they just don't understand how important the neural nerf was. The only way for infestor-based compositions to go toe-to-toe with decent colossus numbers was neural; now you can't do that. That's why people like Sase called the change stupid. Micro (blink/spreading/colossus positioning) could deal with the 9 range neural. When it's at 7 range if the zerg ever neurals a colossus the protoss fucked up (and either way the infestor will be focused down instantly because it's in range of the stalkers). This also means a well-rounded protoss max should beat any zerg composition without broodlords now, but maybe that's intended (if there's a way to still make ultra's work without neural I haven't seen it). It also made thor/banshee/hellion a pain TvZ, but that's a whole different story. | ||
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:03 Asha` wrote: I asked Dimaga, he responded by happily going roach/hydra/corruptor vs JYP. It's pretty obvious that since the patch the more interesting PvZ strats we'd been seen have been getting disregarded in favour of the old deathball approach or 2 base blink timings, and on the Zerg side of things players are readopting roach/hydra/corruptor giving us far less versatility in unit composition than we had before it That's a crutch then imo, falling back on the same old crutch is not the right answer, until people can definitively show that the matchup has regressed than it's stupid to say the patch ruined it. | ||
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
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