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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne |
On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also  . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again.
The key point is just that there aren't many really good Protoss players. There are so many top Terrans that their strats get developed way faster than Protoss. Zerg also have fewer top players, but at least they've been playing macro games (for the most part) since release, which is far more useful for figuring out the game than the huge swathe of Protoss players who were relying on timing attacks and silly all ins for months.
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On August 20 2011 01:49 Freak705 wrote:
Are there any VODs for this event? I'm at work and I missed the MC vs SeleCt games =(
http://tv.esl.eu/vod
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On August 20 2011 01:49 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:45 sleepingdog wrote:
PvZ without a stargate is so hard, Mana outplaying Moonglade on every aspect and he still nearly manages to break through
Have to restrain myself to not balance-QQ FFE is not always the best strategy with wide open naturals like on metal that require you to lose a lot of production. If that was Shakura's MaNa would have not lost a unit.
You can do Stargate play after a 1 Gate FE too. That was (is?) MC's primary PvZ build, 1 Gate FE, then another Gateway and a Stargate, chronoboosting a VR the moment it finished.
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On August 20 2011 01:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again. The key point is just that there aren't many really good Protoss players. There are so many top Terrans that their strats get developed way faster than Protoss. Zerg also have fewer top players, but at least they've been playing macro games (for the most part) since release, which is far more useful for figuring out the game than the huge swathe of Protoss players who were relying on timing attacks and silly all ins for months.
I think you are completly wrong with this statement. But lets watch the games and keep our remarks for the balance thread.
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On August 20 2011 01:49 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:45 sleepingdog wrote:
PvZ without a stargate is so hard, Mana outplaying Moonglade on every aspect and he still nearly manages to break through
Have to restrain myself to not balance-QQ FFE is not always the best strategy with wide open naturals like on metal that require you to lose a lot of production. If that was Shakura's MaNa would have not lost a unit. Edit: A player like MaNa can hold even on metal though.
And there goes the stargate 
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On August 20 2011 01:52 morbvs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:49 Freak705 wrote:
Are there any VODs for this event? I'm at work and I missed the MC vs SeleCt games =( http://tv.esl.eu/vod Thank you good sir!
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On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again.
because for the most time in starcraft2's life Colossus was the way to go.
Loading up high templar into a warpprism after you teched to colossus was suicide.
Even if you favoured templar tech back then,most zerg/terran expected colossus before templar back then.
Even today you see terrans sometime blindly building vikings, zergs can even do it without that much punishement in late game as they'll go for brood lords anyway.
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Well, if Moonglade does this right, that stargate wont be doing too much,
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scouted 1 stargate all in should be very managable for Moonglade.
Only choice for Mana had to try to make it into a makro game.
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...It's basically the story of late-game PvT, you just wait for terran to make a mistake, if he plays it right, he'll always have a slight advantage.
I feel like it's true for MMM+ghosts vs gateway+templars, but not so much when you have colossus and the other side has vikings, right?
Imo pure gateways armies shouldn't theoretically work against MMM ghosts, assuming equally good control from both sides.
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On August 20 2011 01:51 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:48 Welmu wrote:On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again. That warp prism play is very situational. One viking will shut warp prism completely since they are so weak The Warpprism has 140 HP ( combined ) thats just 10 less then a Medivac. Its not like 1 Viking will instantly kill it.
There's one gigantic difference between terran dropping and protoss dropping. Terran dropping is instant damage, what I mean is that once units are dropped, the damage is done, and it doesn't really matter too much if the medivac is lost. In comparison, when using WP as protoss, you NEED the WP to survive, either to warp in more units, or to give mobility and enough survivability to HTs (or any other unit) to actually cause damage.
This is essential, because in order to shut down medivacs, you need a viking squad, or a stalker ball, or a muta flock, so you can kill it BEFORE it drops. Against WP, you need only one or 2 units, because if you can threaten the WP to die, the strat is mostly shut down. The one exception is the type of battle which happened in this SeleCT vs MC game, since once the HTs are dropped and the templars are spent, the WP might as well die, it doesn't matter that much.
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On August 20 2011 01:40 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:35 Ripper41 wrote:On August 20 2011 01:17 The KY wrote:On August 20 2011 01:16 Ripper41 wrote:On August 20 2011 01:15 The KY wrote:On August 20 2011 01:14 Ripper41 wrote:
did MC discover how to make HT viable again? They never stopped being viable. of course they weren't viable PvT against ghost, jeeeeeez! Yeah they really were. Hence why you still see them used all the time, hence why you still see them win all the time. I saw them getting EMP'd if thats what you mean.. Not arguing with trolls. Everyone who watches SC2 knows that HT's have been a viable option for months and that ghosts are not an insta-counter.
actually HT's have been used vs terran bio since beta, but w/e. ghosts were made cheaper(gas-wise) a few months ago, so there have been a lot more of them.
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Hey guys, just got home, would anyone be kind enough to tell me a quick recap of MC's games vs. Select? 
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Italy12246 Posts
On August 20 2011 01:51 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:48 Welmu wrote:On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again. That warp prism play is very situational. One viking will shut warp prism completely since they are so weak The Warpprism has 140 HP ( combined ) thats just 10 less then a Medivac. Its not like 1 Viking will instantly kill it.
The medivac has 1 armor too.
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Moonglade behind in supply against a Protoss while making Roaches... HuK must've played really bad against him.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Mana and his supply blocks 
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anyone else expecting a puma v. mc rematch?
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On August 20 2011 01:59 Toadvine wrote:
Moonglade behind in supply against a Protoss while making Roaches... HuK must've played really bad against him.
Not anymore
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god that fight was bad o.O
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On August 20 2011 01:56 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 01:51 s3rp wrote:On August 20 2011 01:48 Welmu wrote:On August 20 2011 01:45 andrewlt wrote:On August 20 2011 01:32 raga4ka wrote:On August 20 2011 01:30 bennyaus wrote:On August 20 2011 01:29 Zane wrote:On August 20 2011 01:28 Telcontar wrote:On August 20 2011 01:27 Vardant wrote:On August 20 2011 01:25 Ansinjunger wrote:
The first time MC used warp prisms to drop HTs in battle I had no clue where those storms came from. Finally we're seeing this tactic used in SC2. Sickest nerd chills watching PvT since NASL. That was an awesome moment. I couldn't figure out what happened too for a while. So unexpected. I seem to remember seeing that recently by another toss. Can't remember who it was though. MC said he saw Hero do this. HuK's been doing it on his stream for a couple of months as well... Pros have been doing it for years in BW also . I find it funny that BW Terrans imported many of their BW strategies (drops all over, harrass, siege tank pushes) almost immediately to SC2 and tried to make them work. Protoss seem to just be rediscovering what they did for years in BW. Sure, they tried it every now and then, but it seemed they gave up pretty quickly and are now just trying them again. That warp prism play is very situational. One viking will shut warp prism completely since they are so weak The Warpprism has 140 HP ( combined ) thats just 10 less then a Medivac. Its not like 1 Viking will instantly kill it. There's one gigantic difference between terran dropping and protoss dropping. Terran dropping is instant damage, what I mean is that once units are dropped, the damage is done, and it doesn't really matter too much if the medivac is lost. In comparison, when using WP as protoss, you NEED the WP to survive, either to warp in more units, or to give mobility and enough survivability to HTs (or any other unit) to actually cause damage. This is essential, because in order to shut down medivacs, you need a viking squad, or a stalker ball, or a muta flock, so you can kill it BEFORE it drops. Against WP, you need only one or 2 units, because if you can threaten the WP to die, the strat is mostly shut down. The one exception is the type of battle which happened in this SeleCT vs MC game, since once the HTs are dropped and the templars are spent, the WP might as well die, it doesn't matter that much.
I agree that WP usage is limited BUT the problem with WP is not the health its the utility . There are not many reasons to build WP's ( unlike Medivacs or Ovies ) kind of like Medivacs when you play Mech only , its for Drop and nothing else but the Robobuildtime is much more precious then Starportbuildtime.
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EPT
