EPTI expect this thread to get to 50 pages on annoying fanboy debates alone. Don't disappoint guys.
Stim.TV Showmatch: EG.iNcontroL vs. Destiny - Page 27
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
I expect this thread to get to 50 pages on annoying fanboy debates alone. Don't disappoint guys. | ||
|
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On August 14 2011 14:52 PeZuY wrote: You serious about infestors being OP? If the players cannot adapt and invent strategies against it then there might be an ISSUE, but there should be time that A) strategy to get more popular, so plenty of people will try to deal it and maybe there are someone who figures it out (void ray+ colossi was and still is very silly combo if not handled properly). If there just will not be any solution to stop against mass infestors, not even by mass ghost/mass templars then there is something off right there. Currently, we'll need to see how will the protoss/terran change their metagame against this unit combo if it will become as a standard build as for Zerg. Why can't people just enjoy the game as it is? I bet there will never be a balanced game, atleast for fanboys who's hero just lost. they plan on nerfing infestor for a reason, also most good zergs I know agree that infestors are a bit broken right now | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On August 14 2011 14:45 ETisME wrote: problem is he still went chargelot, archon, DT against ROACHE infestors and he never warped in stalkers. the rest of what you have said can be true but I honestly don't play protoss. If anything, I would say they are cutting sentries because of the gas cost and they want the army to be a little bit more mobile when it gets to 3 bases I think this shows a need for more Stargate or Robo support. Pure Gateway is really inflexible, even if you tech Templar + DT. | ||
|
montysaurus
United States27 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:25 ReignFayth wrote: they plan on nerfing infestor for a reason, also most good zergs I know agree that infestors are a bit broken right now and whered you get that insider info? Infestors might be really powerful but OP of a leap. | ||
|
Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
i think enough people have lost with it now that they might consider changing that hopefully ITs get nerfed though, if your army isnt a step away then you just lost your base. | ||
|
Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
just assume they're eventually going to be at hive tech and have the voids ready beforehand! all of a sudden you're ready for both ultras/broods. high templar void ray has always been an insane combination to deal with but people have been doing it LESS since infestors have gotten popular. all you need to do is split the voids and you're golden since you have the tools to shit on everything else. | ||
|
morlakaix
United States860 Posts
All standard games played destiny won, and if incontrALLIN cheesed/all-ined he won. | ||
|
Gatored
United States679 Posts
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. | ||
|
unit
United States2621 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. in addition to that the only way that it seemed to be beaten was through early allins that would easily be held off if destiny changed his build to pretty much anything else, and even without changing it could be held off without too many losses assuming the proper infestor micro | ||
|
jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. Well incontrol admitted (on the stim.tv podcast after the series) that his unit comp just wasn't that good to deal with the infestor roach build that Destiny was using. I mean it got to a point in the game where the Zealots were useless. He also went on to say that they infestor does need to be looked at, which i completely agree. And it needs to be looked at in depth by not only blizzard, but pro players. I'm not ready to call it OP. It is very powerful, but it is beatable. I remember watching Socke vs Destiny in the IPL and how hard he owned the infestors with his feedbacks. I think incontrol should have went HT rather than DT and the one game he went HT (eventually) he just didn't have enough. I think more need to be built to deal with the mass infestors. Look at how many ghosts Thorzain uses in TvZ to deal with the mass infestors (and broodlords). Obviously ghosts have more use with sniping broodlords, but the HT's can use psi storm too. I'm not ready to call the infestor OP, but it does need a serious look at. | ||
|
DarkenedLite
United States188 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. In none of the games did I really feel like iNcontroL had the proper response prepared for Destiny's particular brand of Zerg, despite the fact that it would have been the easiest thing in the world to metagame the hell out of him. I actually asked him after the cast and he quickly responded that Immortal/HT/Zealot is the way to go vs. Destiny's style and he never really utilized that particular composition, especially not to full affect. He only produced small amounts of Templar and 90% of the time they were almost immediately morphed to Archons, which I honestly feel don't fair too well against Roach/Infestor. They really shine vs. Muta-heavy builds and Zergling w/ Baneling drop play. He also never really got a critical mass of Immortals to the point that he could punish Destiny's over-roaching. Again, I really feel like this is fundamental when trying to defeat Destiny's abusive and not easily countered style. | ||
|
wats0n
United States509 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. Did you watch the game on lost temple? Incontrol lost like 8 sentries because he broke down the rocks and never checked the other rocks with his void rays. He lost to lings not infestors. | ||
|
Swad1000
United States366 Posts
On August 14 2011 16:01 unit wrote: in addition to that the only way that it seemed to be beaten was through early allins that would easily be held off if destiny changed his build to pretty much anything else, and even without changing it could be held off without too many losses assuming the proper infestor micro Incontrol got completely outplayed in the macro games. The first game had the most useless stargate play that accomplished nothing and Destiny had really good counterattacks and burrow play that just rolled Infestors are not really the problem if the P is playing horrible and relying on gimmicky shit like dts. Not scouting properly and going chargelot/archon vs roach is going to lose anyway. the Infestors is just a bonus. And saying infestors are op off of games like these are not really right. Better to base them off of games versus players like puzzle/mc/Huk or Hero. From watching Heros stream top ladder kr zergs are ridiculous but if Mc could obliterate this style with top level micro/macro and the only answer to them is to get better they should not be nerfed. tldr dont be 4 times worse then Destiny and expect to beat him just because you make chargelot archon blindly. | ||
|
Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
The problem is that Destiny gets a good economy and his opponents expects to take down 20 infestors with 5 high templars... It's only fair the numbers needs to be matched. Nerfing the Infestor would absolutely break the current metagame that hasn't even developed properly yet (make HT/Ghosts). I wish Blizzard would just leave the game alone for 6 months at the time. | ||
|
jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 14 2011 17:52 Stiluz wrote: The fanboys whining here (and I love Incontrol) is ridiculus, Destiny has explained what you need to do against his build (early templars and then it turns into a normal game), and if you don't do it, you'll have problems. Just as you have to go Templars against Infestors, Zergs have to switch from Hydras when facing many colossi etc. The problem is that Destiny gets a good economy and his opponents expects to take down 20 infestors with 5 high templars... It's only fair the numbers needs to be matched. Nerfing the Infestor would absolutely break the current metagame that hasn't even developed properly yet (make HT/Ghosts). I wish Blizzard would just leave the game alone for 6 months at the time. Blizzard hasn't said they are going to nerf the infestor. David kim said they heard a lot of complaints about btoodlord/infestor and that they were going to look into it. That was in an interview at the hots preview a little while ago. That doesn't mean it will be nerfed, just that it will be looked into. Blizz said they would rather not do any balance changes before hots comes out. | ||
|
Downside
173 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player. Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work. You don't think that there should be any strong well rounded builds that don't auto lose to a hard counter(whether than be composition or timing)? I am not saying that infestors create this or that these matches in particular express this, but the philosophy of your statement is bad for competitive play imo. I can't argue strategy and what not within context of this game without feeling my own ignorance, but as someone who enjoys more than one kind of competitive game I do feel qualified to argue competitive game design. I certainly would rather the game have builds that are not auto countered by some magic unit composition or timing, than a game that grants you wins if you can guess or know your opponents build. The less it becomes about composition or early timings the more the game emphasizes other skills and decisions I think most people find more impressive/skillful than having just the right composition or early timing. I'm not saying something like a timing shouldn't exist as much as I'm saying that I see nothing wrong with a build that plays is safe to metagamed unit compositions and hard counters. Once again, this view is not attached to the infestor as a unit or these games just overall philosopy of the games design since you stated that you did not like having a game where Incontrol knows exactly what Destiny would do and still struggles. | ||
|
Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
If Destiny's style can be countered at MLG by relatively unknown players, I don't see why progamers cannot. At the highest levels of play, the infestor is no more than a support caster | ||
|
Sawofhackness
Afghanistan183 Posts
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid. sweet jesus, it was a SHOWMATCH, they talk to each other on skype a lot, they like/respect each other Stop injecting hate, whining and negativity into a farking computer game. Next time you are watching GOM and you hear Tasteless put on his nerd voice saying "he's lost his passsionnn nyyyerr" - he's doing an impression of posters like yourself! Great games and good fun, thanks guys! | ||
|
Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On August 14 2011 19:39 Micket wrote: If Destiny's style can be countered at MLG by relatively unknown players, I don't see why progamers cannot. Cause some of these ''progamers'' are not actually good. | ||
|
tofubeans
United States794 Posts
| ||
| ||
