Update: We had to push back this event by a little bit. As listed above in the graphic it is now at 10:30PM EST / 7:30 PM PST - Sorry for the inconvenience, and thank you for all the support :D
Where: Stim.TV Stream When: Saturday August 13th, 2011 - 10:30PM EST / 7:30PM PST Prize: $100
Also we will be following up the showmatch with episode #2 of our new podcast!
What is Stim.TV? With our partnership with Playhem.com we hold tournaments every single week. Click Here for Details
pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
No, I think everybody can speak for themselves in that regard...
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
I think you're actually pretty wrong about this. Destiny is publically bm and secretly gm while InControl is publically gm while secretly bm.
I can't wait to interview iNcontroL so I can finally dispel all of the stim.tv chat roomers that I'm him. 2 of us same time same call boya rumor dispersed. Like when Micheal and Janet Jackson were in the same room at the same time (bad example).
Seriously though this should be a great match up. I can't wait to cast this with Sympatico!
On August 13 2011 04:02 Novalisk wrote: Is it too soon to call this a rivalry?
They both seem to intelligent and levelheaded (albiet a little drama-centric) for this to actually develop into a rivalry. It isn't like Destiny is actually ever mad at his opponents personally, and iNcontroL is just a giant manner bear, soo...
Will be a fun showmatch to watch though! You can count me in :D
On August 13 2011 04:02 Novalisk wrote: Is it too soon to call this a rivalry?
They both seem to intelligent and levelheaded (albiet a little drama-centric) for this to actually develop into a rivalry. It isn't like Destiny is actually ever mad at his opponents personally, and iNcontroL is just a giant manner bear, soo...
Will be a fun showmatch to watch though! You can count me in :D
Apparently people need to hate each other and have horrible manners to have a rivalry with someone who does the same thing as they do.
On August 13 2011 04:02 Novalisk wrote: Is it too soon to call this a rivalry?
They both seem to intelligent and levelheaded (albiet a little drama-centric) for this to actually develop into a rivalry. It isn't like Destiny is actually ever mad at his opponents personally, and iNcontroL is just a giant manner bear, soo...
Will be a fun showmatch to watch though! You can count me in :D
Apparently people need to hate each other and have horrible manners to have a rivalry with someone who does the same thing as they do.
??????????
Sorry for double post, just wanted to point out that BoxeR / Yellow have a great rivalry based on respect and manner.
INcontroL thinks Infestors are OP. Destiny uses a lot of Infestors. This will be interesting. I really enjoy watching both of these players, so this will be great.
I've heard incontrol on several occasions in the last few months say that destiny is not a top level player like himself, and that he (incontrol) has no problem with destiny's style by just playing a safe, turtle-y macro style. More recently, he has also said that PvZ is super hard to win and infestors are verging on being OP.
I expect several 1 base plays from incontrol, most of which will fail if destiny plays aware of this. If the game goes late, and destiny prepares for mass dark templar, he should win every time.
Destiny needs to come in with something other than his mass normal infestor ling build so iNcontroL doesn't just meta him and take the easy wins. Expecting to see something new from Destiny and hopefully i'm right
On August 13 2011 04:02 Novalisk wrote: Is it too soon to call this a rivalry?
They both seem to intelligent and levelheaded (albiet a little drama-centric) for this to actually develop into a rivalry. It isn't like Destiny is actually ever mad at his opponents personally, and iNcontroL is just a giant manner bear, soo...
Will be a fun showmatch to watch though! You can count me in :D
Apparently people need to hate each other and have horrible manners to have a rivalry with someone who does the same thing as they do.
??????????
Sorry for double post, just wanted to point out that BoxeR / Yellow have a great rivalry based on respect and manner.
Ya that was the point of my post, maybe I should add /sarcasm tags.
I'm a fan of Destiny, and I think he has a good shot here (he looked quite strong against dde), but bringing up MLG results isn't exactly the best idea when comparing Incontrol and Destiny.
On August 13 2011 10:36 nvs. wrote: Incontrol overrated. Destinty underrated.
People might be surprised by the result.
People keep saying Destiny is underrated but he never seems to perform at MLG (or recent IPL) which are the only tournaments I've seen him in so I'm not convinced. Seems to me his only style is mass infestor in all matchups.
Don't really think incontrol is that good either, but maybe he'll improve in the EG team house.
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
On August 13 2011 03:24 TumbaStarcraft wrote: I can't wait to interview iNcontroL so I can finally dispel all of the stim.tv chat roomers that I'm him. 2 of us same time same call boya rumor dispersed. Like when Micheal and Janet Jackson were in the same room at the same time (bad example).
Seriously though this should be a great match up. I can't wait to cast this with Sympatico!
I thought it was Michael and LaToya Jackson rumored to be the same person.
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
I can understand Destiny winning on ladder, but in tournaments as long his opponent responds well to his build it's almost an easy win, due to the lack of variety.
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
I can understand Destiny winning on ladder, but in tournaments as long his opponent responds well to his build it's almost an easy win, due to the lack of variety.
Couldn't the same be said for a lot of players? Like dSeLect? Possibly the best terran on NA servers, He goes bio with medivacs like constantly, so, does that mean he insta loses because his opponent knows what his game plan is? Please don't be soo narrow minded, thanks.
After watching the Zergs in the GSL try out more infestor play recently, I've really started to appreciate Destiny's infestor control, it's so damn good.
iNcontroL loves his DT's Destiny loves his Infestors
Best of luck to both of you, it should be a fun series.
PvZ, I know, but this thought just popped into my head, blueflame helion harass? Load your drones into your overlord if you have lair and required research.
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
I can understand Destiny winning on ladder, but in tournaments as long his opponent responds well to his build it's almost an easy win, due to the lack of variety.
Couldn't the same be said for a lot of players? Like dSeLect? Possibly the best terran on NA servers, He goes bio with medivacs like constantly, so, does that mean he insta loses because his opponent knows what his game plan is? Please don't be soo narrow minded, thanks.
Please don't be so narrow minded, thanks. [Good Joke]
I feel like Select has a plan B if needed. Also I love Destiny and if you have heard me cast any of his games you would already know I defend his style. It's not as easy as herp derp make infestor broodlord and win.
I don't think my analysis is narrow minded. But thanks!
SC2 is very similar to poker, and once you get a bead on someone's style better players will always come out on top because the extra information is such an advantage.
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
I can understand Destiny winning on ladder, but in tournaments as long his opponent responds well to his build it's almost an easy win, due to the lack of variety.
Couldn't the same be said for a lot of players? Like dSeLect? Possibly the best terran on NA servers, He goes bio with medivacs like constantly, so, does that mean he insta loses because his opponent knows what his game plan is? Please don't be soo narrow minded, thanks.
Select has a wide variety of tvp strategies. Fast ghost pushes, and 1/1/1 all ins in addition to this standard fast medivac style. Not even to mention his results and mechanics are many times better than Destiny's. You probably shouldn't even mention them in the same breath.
Hoping Incontrol takes this and the time in the EG house pays off for him.
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
I think you're actually pretty wrong about this. Destiny is publically bm and secretly gm while InControl is publically gm while secretly bm.
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
I think you're actually pretty wrong about this. Destiny is publically bm and secretly gm while InControl is publically gm while secretly bm.
Destiny 4-0. Incontrol doesnt have the micro to deal with destiny's unique style. I am expecting very long games as they are both turtly/macro players.
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
No, I think everybody can speak for themselves in that regard...
It's not necessarily that clear cut.
Yes, people seem to make Destiny out to be some CombatEx figure when that is really not the case. I think Destiny is just much more colorful and emotional of course much more transparent/honest (he prides himself on it and it is a source of his popularity) than Incontrol (or anyone else but this is the topical comparison). Whenever he is BM, it is mostly sarcastic and if it is genuine is not even any more severe than anyone else and is definitely not up to the level of the real asshats (CombatEx, Deezer, etc.) .
This should be an interesting showmatch. Whether incontrol means it or not he comes off often as thinking that destiny is a rather poor player. Saying huk is 4-5 times better than destiny is a pretty ridiculous comment.
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
You're right, the match-up does need work. But not in the way you think.
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
I think you're actually pretty wrong about this. Destiny is publically bm and secretly gm while InControl is publically gm while secretly bm.
Destiny is public bm and secret bm.. Incontrol does wht he believes in, just straight forward
On August 13 2011 02:55 Gl!tch wrote: Ohhh this will be good. Can i speak for everybody when i saw iNcontrol is known for being very well mannered while Destiny expresses on his stream quite the opposite? (which is why i like to watch his stream :D)
I think you're actually pretty wrong about this. Destiny is publically bm and secretly gm while InControl is publically gm while secretly bm.
Destiny is public bm and secret bm.. Incontrol does wht he believes in, just straight forward
Yeah... Not at all. That's so absurdly biased towards inControl.
I've seen Destiny interact with his viewers in a number of positive ways and he seems to generally be pretty mannered aside from his online persona, I'd actually say that he's the one who is more straight forward and unapologetic while inControl can be quite the opposite from what I've seen.
Regardless, I don't want to derail this thread and start talking about each individual character since while I've been put off by some of what I've seen here and there, I don't know nearly enough about either of them to make any real judgements in regards to their true character.
Everyone found a way to beat it, that's why Destiny went from "up and coming" to "ehhh".
I used to be a fan, but tbh, all I see when I check the stream (considering it isn't up as much as it used to be anyway) is lessons.
I think not being on a team has had its consequences. Hopefully Destiny decides if he wants to be a serious player or just a personality (painuser / incontrol choices). He's definitely smart, and he hasn't made any indications that he can't handle the apm, so it's at a point where we've just been waiting for him to refine his plays / make more for a few months, and iunno if it's happened yet.
Kind of the same for incontrol too though I guess lol, but incontrol has more experience, and seems a little more devoted (choosing to focus on play rather than day9ing XD)
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
If by "joke" you mean a "legitimate strategy/build" you would be correct.
However, Destiny's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have any other strong builds to fall back on. I believe he said in an interview at MLG that he would work on having at least one other strong build so his opponent can't just meta-game him 100% of the time.
I can understand Destiny winning on ladder, but in tournaments as long his opponent responds well to his build it's almost an easy win, due to the lack of variety.
Couldn't the same be said for a lot of players? Like dSeLect? Possibly the best terran on NA servers, He goes bio with medivacs like constantly, so, does that mean he insta loses because his opponent knows what his game plan is? Please don't be soo narrow minded, thanks.
it's not the same at all, cuz the way select plays, there is literally no hard counter to it, he just plays solid
Well if Incontrol loses this, I think he should back off a little on talking about destiny not being a top player, pretty sure he's said that about 3 or 4 times in the last few sotgs
On August 13 2011 17:07 lim1017 wrote: Well if Incontrol loses this, I think he should back off a little on talking about destiny not being a top player, pretty sure he's said that about 3 or 4 times in the last few sotgs
because beating incontrol would made destiny a top player?
On August 13 2011 17:07 lim1017 wrote: Well if Incontrol loses this, I think he should back off a little on talking about destiny not being a top player, pretty sure he's said that about 3 or 4 times in the last few sotgs
because beating incontrol would made destiny a top player?
I like how you somehow managed to subtlety insult both players. Well played sir.
Two of my favorite players in a bo7 showmatch? Thank you Stim.TV for putting this together. I don't know who to cheer for, so I'll cheer that it goes all the way to game 7.
Also I've never heard of the casters, should be a fun watch.
On August 13 2011 17:07 lim1017 wrote: Well if Incontrol loses this, I think he should back off a little on talking about destiny not being a top player, pretty sure he's said that about 3 or 4 times in the last few sotgs
because beating incontrol would made destiny a top player?
I like how you somehow managed to subtlety insult both players. Well played sir.
I didn't mean to be insulting at all. Just stating the truth. iNcontroL is one of my favorite players, but right now I wouldn't call him a top player. Of course with the EG house, I think this will change as the man certainly has the drive to be the best.
As for Destiny, he's just not a top player either. He needs to have success in tournaments. Say what you will about iNcontroL's bad MLG performances, but he is losing to top players in them. Destiny has been falling out of MLG rather early, lost early in NASL qualifiers and lost early in IPL. He just doesn't have the results to be a top player. Winning this show match won't change that for either of these players.
Unfortunately I won't be able to tune in since it's 3AM in Europe I'll catch the vods though for sure =D BTW in the future, alongside the two american timezones, it'd be nice with a UTC or CEST time aswell >_>
On August 13 2011 17:07 lim1017 wrote: Well if Incontrol loses this, I think he should back off a little on talking about destiny not being a top player, pretty sure he's said that about 3 or 4 times in the last few sotgs
Well both are no top players... just a fun showmatch.
I would be very surprised if Destiny don't win this, either way its gonna be an interesting match. Fun clash of personalities, i like and dislike them both
On August 14 2011 02:08 CellTech wrote: Obviously a guy in the top 16 at MLG will take this with absolute ease.
Yeah, I'm not so sure about that... His performance at the last two MLGs have been pretty iffy and he edged out at Dallas with a really close group, and if you come first in your group, you're guaranteed a butt-load of rank points. Don't want to shit on his achievement at all, as he did beat some good players, but I don't think "Top 16 at MLG" means he'll take this with ease. If he wasn't already top 16, I don't think he'd perform much better than Destiny going through the open bracket.
On August 14 2011 02:00 lemonstealer wrote: Destiny is going to make inControl whine about balance.
iNcontroL doesn't seem like a "whiner". When I hear him speak the points he makes are argued very well. From what I have heard he formulates opinions based on facts. He also actually LISTENS to the counter argument and responds directly.
He certainly doesn't make blanket statements like this or that race loses because everyone that plays them is retarded.
Idra and iNcontroL are the perfect yin yang for EG.
After the match the skype call will reveal inControls QQ
It's no secret that iNcontroL is my favorite foreigner. That being said I will not have (too much) bias during the cast. BUT I PROMISE that if he has time for a post game interview (win or lose) the questions he receives will be well thought out and no softballs.
On August 13 2011 04:02 Novalisk wrote: Is it too soon to call this a rivalry?
They both seem to intelligent and levelheaded (albiet a little drama-centric) for this to actually develop into a rivalry. It isn't like Destiny is actually ever mad at his opponents personally, and iNcontroL is just a giant manner bear, soo...
Will be a fun showmatch to watch though! You can count me in :D
Apparently people need to hate each other and have horrible manners to have a rivalry with someone who does the same thing as they do.
??????????
Sorry for double post, just wanted to point out that BoxeR / Yellow have a great rivalry based on respect and manner.
I stand corrected, then!
Whenever I think of rivalries, I think of IdrA/Cruncher or CatZ/CombatEX.
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
Sadly that's like 5am CEST I'm watching finals of blizz invitational now (2:30am) but there is no way I'll be able to stay up that late (same goes for many euros I bet)¨ Looking forward to vods.
On August 14 2011 09:33 Poky wrote: Sadly that's like 5am CEST I'm watching finals of blizz invitational now (2:30am) but there is no way I'll be able to stay up that late (same goes for many euros I bet)¨ Looking forward to vods.
Pizza and beer and some laddering on SC2 to keep me awake!
both these are kinda overrated in terms of their skill/tournament results. But they're both polarizing figures who most people either love or hate. It should be an interesting match,
Haha, I will love this! Destiny has said himself that he dislike that InControL due to the fact that he takes back alot of things he says. Will be fun to watch!
On August 14 2011 11:49 Jinivus wrote: wahh? cannon behind gateway? pulling 5 drones to kill a probe? Dey be trollin?
Destiny is already really far ahead from incontrol misreading his build horribly, so he can afford to pull those drones to make sure he doesn't lose to some retarded cannoning.
Wow incontrol just lost a bunch of gas units and killed only lings >.> Is Incontrol scouting Destiny at all still? He doesnt have a robo up yet does he? Is he just banking on pure ling infestor that Destiny is known for?
On August 14 2011 11:56 Mycl wrote: Incontrol was not kidding when he said his PvZ was a mess
His push was a mess.
pushing into 3 base zerg with 5 archons and 10 zealots, what the fuck?
Well if it had the sentries he lost, and had destiny gotten roach muta, incontrol could've had a successful push. but all those "if's". Destiny just out played him.
InControl just played absolutely terribly. Pushing with 2 archons and a few zealots, blindly metagaming Destiny by going temps for feedback, but then making them into archons before feedbacking. Forge on top of the ramp with no fast expo. Then the idiot caster is implying that ZvP is broken somehow when InControl just played horribly with a retarded build order. Also the one caster with the deeper voice is just terrible. Props to the other guy for hanging in there with him and making it somewhat bearable.
On August 14 2011 12:00 Throat wrote: InControl just played absolutely terribly. Pushing with 2 archons and a few zealots, blindly metagaming Destiny by going temps for feedback, but then making them into archons before feedbacking. Forge on top of the ramp with no fast expo. Then the idiot caster is implying that ZvP is broken somehow when InControl just played horribly with a retarded build order. Also the one caster with the deeper voice is just terrible. Props to the other guy for hanging in there with him and making it somewhat bearable.
It was not metagaming >.>, he barely kept any ht's and didn't get ANY psi storms. If he was metagaming he woulda kept the ht's, without turning um into archons.
Destiny is scouting really well this game. Surprised he missed that stargate with it being right at the front of the base, but it seems like stargate openings don't do nearly as much for protoss as they used to. I think destiny will be fine
To be fair if there's one thing you really can't blame it's blind countering infestors. Seems smart, force Destiny to do something out of his comfort zone. Assuming it actually works......
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Because his best protoss practice partner is CombatEx and Incontrol... -_-
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Yea. They are required to train a minimum of 8 hours a day and it seems like a majority of EG is zergs now since LZGamer switched to Zerg. (Idra Machine LZ and Machine all EG zergs). Is Destiny going to Raleigh?
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine goes 0-5 in pool play in literally every MLG this year.
Axslav, Strifecro, and LzGamer are mid-tier at best.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Since when does pool play at MLG = top tier? Gretorp was in pool play for ages! Name one half decent tournament at Strifecro LZ Axslave or Machine have ever been deemed as favorites? Half ass local lan/online tournaments don't count for shit, I mean REAL tournaments...
Please remove your EG fanboy blindfold and look at this realistically. IdrA and Incontrol are the only top tier players on EG
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Since when does pool play at MLG = top tier? Gretorp was in pool play for ages! Name one half decent tournament at Strifecro LZ Axslave or Machine have ever been deemed as favorites? Half ass local lan/online tournaments don't count for shit, I mean REAL tournaments...
Please remove your EG fanboy blindfold and look at this realistically. IdrA and Incontrol are the only top tier players on EG
Puma and Demuslim are both better players than Incontrol. I would consider them top tier
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
I think you are overstating their accomplishments a bit, but some of the players are definitely underrated.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Since when does pool play at MLG = top tier? Gretorp was in pool play for ages! Name one half decent tournament at Strifecro LZ Axslave or Machine have ever been deemed as favorites? Half ass local lan/online tournaments don't count for shit, I mean REAL tournaments...
Please remove your EG fanboy blindfold and look at this realistically. IdrA and Incontrol are the only top tier players on EG
Puma and Demuslim are both better players than Incontrol. I would consider them top tier
Hmm Forgot about Puma and Demuslim... but my main point still stands, He was calling the other guys top tier, which they clearly are not. Demuslim I'm kind of iffy on whether he should really be considered a top tier player, he has shown some great results but the yare very varied and he isn't consistent.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Since when does pool play at MLG = top tier? Gretorp was in pool play for ages! Name one half decent tournament at Strifecro LZ Axslave or Machine have ever been deemed as favorites? Half ass local lan/online tournaments don't count for shit, I mean REAL tournaments...
Please remove your EG fanboy blindfold and look at this realistically. IdrA and Incontrol are the only top tier players on EG
I don't believe incontrol is top tier. maybe at some point he was, but as of late he hasn't posted any major results. The 2 players of EG that I think are top tier are Idra and Puma, everyone else seems kinda average.
Forgive me my non protoss ignorance. But wouldn't it be better to use a larger number of HT with psi and feedback instead of morphing them straight into archons?
On August 14 2011 12:14 NoobSh1t wrote: It's astounding that destiny does the exact same shit every single game and protoss are still having trouble against him.
Isn't this what all the BW guys want? Skill to transcend build order?
On August 14 2011 12:14 Maghetti wrote: chargelots vs zerg??? wtf? That is like the worst unit you can use vs infestors and roaches.
Destiny is known for heavy ling compositions. He makes a shitload of lings early on and incontrol is stuck with a ton of zealots, and he tries to go zealot templar archon to counter ling infestor. Then destiny just goes mass roach infestor and hard counters it
so a 'pro gamer' on one of the most prestigious gaming organizations in all of e-sports who receives a salary to play, who lives in a pro gaming house and gets travel compensations for tournaments is being thoroughly outclassed by a guy who likes to ladder and stream a lot who plays basically 1 style. Interesting...
On August 14 2011 12:14 NoobSh1t wrote: It's astounding that destiny does the exact same shit every single game and protoss are still having trouble against him.
yes he goes infestors every game. but do you not see his strategies? splitting armies, multitasking, etc.? it's not just going high temps, the opponent has to keep up with all the different counter attacks destiny dishes out.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine is arguably one of the worst players in pool play. Axslav, Strifecrow, and Lz are not favorites for any tourney and have never won anything meaningful. Just saying...
So if you lose to other top tear players your no longer top tear yourself? Wow i guess noone in the GSL is top tear either huh? Your hate is blinding you. Theres no shame losing to the players who made it to pool play as well like Drewbie Idra CruncheR Slush and Huk...
On August 14 2011 12:15 Carush wrote: 1. these casters suck 2. destiny is destroying this nerd
These casters don't suck, they're just not god-like, like tastosis, but that doesn't make um suck.
The deeper voiced one is the worst caster I have ever heard and I'm not exaggerating, thank god I found that Destiny is streaming it himself... it wasn't on the list earlier.
On August 14 2011 12:15 Vega62a wrote: Destiny's control is impressive.
But I feel like inc could outplay him if he'd prepared some builds.
Yeah i feel like incontrol had nothing planned for this showmatch.. Wathever, destiny has improved i guess.. hope to see him do well in major events soon.. maybe next mlg?
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine is arguably one of the worst players in pool play. Axslav, Strifecrow, and Lz are not favorites for any tourney and have never won anything meaningful. Just saying...
So if you lose to other top tear players your no longer top tear yourself? Wow i guess noone in the GSL is top tear either huh? Your hate is blinding you. Theres no shame losing to the players who made it to pool play as well like Drewbie Idra CruncheR Slush and Huk...
You need to understand who the MLG pool and point system works. They are removing next season because it is broken and allows undeserving players (Gretorp, Machine) to be in pool play for too long. All of EG besides IdrA/Puma is mid-tier. That is just a fact, and I like EG in general.
On August 14 2011 12:16 crms wrote: so a 'pro gamer' on one of the most prestigious gaming organizations in all of e-sports who receives a salary to play, who lives in a pro gaming house and gets travel compensations for tournaments is being thoroughly outclassed by a guy who likes to ladder and stream a lot who plays basically 1 style. Interesting...
Aw sad that the caster didnt get a shoutout from Tasteless. That would be awesome. I got a shoutout from DoA once for telling him HoseoSan was cannon rushed by MC in the GSL semis :D I felt so famous for 3 seconds. Then I remembered only like 30 people were watching clash of the houses
On August 14 2011 12:16 crms wrote: so a 'pro gamer' on one of the most prestigious gaming organizations in all of e-sports who receives a salary to play, who lives in a pro gaming house and gets travel compensations for tournaments is being thoroughly outclassed by a guy who likes to ladder and stream a lot who plays basically 1 style. Interesting...
If he blames infesters after this series....
He already said something about trying his best even though the state of PvZ favors zerg, so he'll just say he lost like he was supposed to.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine is arguably one of the worst players in pool play. Axslav, Strifecrow, and Lz are not favorites for any tourney and have never won anything meaningful. Just saying...
So if you lose to other top tear players your no longer top tear yourself? Wow i guess noone in the GSL is top tear either huh? Your hate is blinding you. Theres no shame losing to the players who made it to pool play as well like Drewbie Idra CruncheR Slush and Huk...
You need to understand who the MLG pool and point system works. They are removing next season because it is broken and allows undeserving players (Gretorp, Machine) to be in pool play for too long. All of EG besides IdrA/Puma is mid-tier. That is just a fact, and I like EG in general.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine is arguably one of the worst players in pool play. Axslav, Strifecrow, and Lz are not favorites for any tourney and have never won anything meaningful. Just saying...
So if you lose to other top tear players your no longer top tear yourself? Wow i guess noone in the GSL is top tear either huh? Your hate is blinding you. Theres no shame losing to the players who made it to pool play as well like Drewbie Idra CruncheR Slush and Huk...
dude I'm sorry but most of EG can't really be considered top tier. I don't think Axslav, StrifeCro, or LZ have even ever made it out of the open bracket at an MLG, and IncontroL is only in pool play because HuK didn't go to MLG Dallas in January or whenever . . .
On August 14 2011 12:16 crms wrote: so a 'pro gamer' on one of the most prestigious gaming organizations in all of e-sports who receives a salary to play, who lives in a pro gaming house and gets travel compensations for tournaments is being thoroughly outclassed by a guy who likes to ladder and stream a lot who plays basically 1 style. Interesting...
The interesting thing about Destiny is that although it appears as if he only does one style, its not like it isn't adaptive. His style is so thoroughly understood that if there were things did too consistently, he wouldn't win. Destiny is in a way really similar to Philbot in WC3. Philbot was a professional WC3 player with some huge success is online leagues, and he would only use a single build order every game. He just knew how to adapt it to more situations than most people realized were possible.
I had been thinking it is somewhat gimmicky, as a Protoss player myself, but the more I watch it, the more ways I see him react to a lot of different situations really well. For example, in game 2, Incontrol made quite a few HT. However, it was clear Destiny was really familiar/comfortable doing that dance of HT vs Infestor. He had a really good sense for the ranges, certainly more so than you see out of even a lot of other pro zergs. His consistent use of infestors has definitely allowed him to refine it, not just spam it the same over and over.
On August 14 2011 12:00 SimDawg wrote: What if Incontrol loses this showmatch? I'm not sure if it will say more about where Incontrol or where Destiny is at right now in SC2.
Incontrol is training in the EG house with top tear players like Machine, Axslave, Strifecrow LzGaMer and Idra... It says a lot more about Destnys skill.. very impressed.
Lol, the only player that could count as top tier out of those is Idra, and even he has been slipping lately.
Have you been living under a rock? Machine is in pool play every MLG.. Axslave, Strifecrow and LzGamer are always favorites as well in any tourney they enter.. Grow up and stop hatin...
Machine is arguably one of the worst players in pool play. Axslav, Strifecrow, and Lz are not favorites for any tourney and have never won anything meaningful. Just saying...
So if you lose to other top tear players your no longer top tear yourself? Wow i guess noone in the GSL is top tear either huh? Your hate is blinding you. Theres no shame losing to the players who made it to pool play as well like Drewbie Idra CruncheR Slush and Huk...
You need to understand who the MLG pool and point system works. They are removing next season because it is broken and allows undeserving players (Gretorp, Machine) to be in pool play for too long. All of EG besides IdrA/Puma is mid-tier. That is just a fact, and I like EG in general.
Oh? Got a link to how it will be next season?
Not sure. Sundance tweeted awhile ago that 'the point system has got to go'. That is all he said I think.
As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
Noooo why did you have to say this Now you're going to start a huge discussion on Warp Prisms and Carriers, ugh.
I feel as if incontrol's only chance is if he uses the element of surprise with cheese/rushes/dts. Destiny's ZvP is actually really good with his unique style, incontrol has no chance of taking the series and he never did.
This caster who keeps talking about the chat and makes annoyingly forced jokes, who is he? I want to know which one he is so that I'll never watch anything he casts ever again. The other caster is kinda decent but the bad one drags him down with him.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
On August 14 2011 12:27 youngminii wrote: This caster who keeps talking about the chat and makes annoyingly forced jokes, who is he? I want to know which one he is so that I'll never watch anything he casts ever again. The other caster is kinda decent but the bad one drags him down with him.
Destiny got unlucky, he went muta/ling to counter any meta-game from incontrol but his DT tech gave him the possibility to morph archons, and boy archons are good against mutas
On August 14 2011 12:27 youngminii wrote: This caster who keeps talking about the chat and makes annoyingly forced jokes, who is he? I want to know which one he is so that I'll never watch anything he casts ever again. The other caster is kinda decent but the bad one drags him down with him.
On August 14 2011 12:25 akalarry wrote: the hell, i'm pretty sure incontrol couldve taken out the hatch or lair with the dts....
he used the dt's to gain an advantage... by killing both evo's he made himself that much stronger in the mid to late game.. if he woulda went for the lair he would have been risky and might not have got it... he woulda wasted all those dt's and killed nothing.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
MC is the only truly innovative protoss. He doesn't just make cute builds to get ahead, he refines and popularizes unique playstyles as well as many specific builds to counter certain problems in the metagame. And some of those only work due to his exceptional macro and unit control.
all in much? Maybe, but destiny saw a twilight council but didn't make enough units, he kept producing drones. had he cut + that static D, he would have held it and won. on to game 5!
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
MC is the only truly innovative protoss. He doesn't just make cute builds to get ahead, he refines and popularizes unique playstyles as well as many specific builds to counter certain problems in the metagame. And some of those only work due to his exceptional macro and unit control.
He's refined Protoss to the point it really cannot be further refined. I'm interested to see what comes up next in our metagame
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
MC is the only truly innovative protoss. He doesn't just make cute builds to get ahead, he refines and popularizes unique playstyles as well as many specific builds to counter certain problems in the metagame. And some of those only work due to his exceptional macro and unit control.
He's refined Protoss to the point it really cannot be further refined. I'm interested to see what comes up next in our metagame
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
I have to disagree on MC being the most innovative player. That trophy goes to Nestea. Zerg and Terran player have several innovative players with unique styles, DRG, Losira, Idra, MVP, Thorzain, Bomber, probably several more. I think the successful Protoss players are not so because of their unique styles, but because of their superior mechanics.
MC is only regarded as not being innovative because he pretty much came up with, or perfected a LARGE proportion of viable Protoss builds. Because they have become standard now people all too easily forget this.
Sage has an interesting style, but it's ridiculous in the skillsets required to pull it off
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
I have to disagree on MC being the most innovative player. That trophy goes to Nestea. Zerg and Terran player have several innovative players with unique styles, DRG, Losira, Idra, MVP, Thorzain, Bomber, probably several more. I think the successful Protoss players are not so because of their unique styles, but because of their superior mechanics.
MC's perhaps not the most innovative but he's the most innovative Protoss player. He's popularized so many Pv builds and refined them to near perfection.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
I have to disagree on MC being the most innovative player. That trophy goes to Nestea. Zerg and Terran player have several innovative players with unique styles, DRG, Losira, Idra, MVP, Thorzain, Bomber, probably several more. I think the successful Protoss players are not so because of their unique styles, but because of their superior mechanics.
Nestea really hasn't innovated that much...he's just had really good play. MC has like 10 builds and protoss wouldn't be what they are without him. I don't think I could say that about nestea...What builds has he come up with, spinecrawler rush is all I can think of. I admit I haven't watched THAT much of Nestea but I don't think he's ever shifted the metagame immensely
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
I have to disagree on MC being the most innovative player. That trophy goes to Nestea. Zerg and Terran player have several innovative players with unique styles, DRG, Losira, Idra, MVP, Thorzain, Bomber, probably several more. I think the successful Protoss players are not so because of their unique styles, but because of their superior mechanics.
I think he has been the most innovative player but it came out of necessity. The Protoss metagame is somewhat stale compared to their counterparts, and MC was responsible for most of the popular Protoss builds in all matchups.
On August 14 2011 12:22 slicknav wrote: As mediocre as these casters are, I agree with their statement that Protoss players haven't been very innovative. They stick to the same things that have been for a while, while Terran and Zerg have been coming out with new styles.
How? MC has innovated various styles in both matchups...how can you say P is the least innovative when they have the most innovative player so far (MC) recently with his Stargate PvZ and chargelot/archon PvT. Along with his gateway timings and other things.
I have to disagree on MC being the most innovative player. That trophy goes to Nestea. Zerg and Terran player have several innovative players with unique styles, DRG, Losira, Idra, MVP, Thorzain, Bomber, probably several more. I think the successful Protoss players are not so because of their unique styles, but because of their superior mechanics.
I think he has been the most innovative player but it came out of necessity. The Protoss metagame is somewhat stale compared to their counterparts, and MC was responsible for most of the popular Protoss builds in all matchups.
Yea...this explains the point I have been trying to mistake. Protoss metagame currently isn't moving as fast as Terran or Zerg. MC has popularized several protoss builds/strategies but as of late they haven't been evolving as fast as Terran or Zerg.
The guy was being sarcastic with the protoss balance thing.
But he was doing it in response to people whining about him being biased for incontrol, which he should just be ignoring. It's annoying seeing him respond to the chat trolls like that.
On August 14 2011 12:49 Utinni wrote: I turn on this stream and all i hear is whining from one of the casters about protoss... hmmm
are you talking about his protoss a move herp derp comment? because if so he was saying it as a joke so he doesn't come off super bias towards incontrol
On August 14 2011 12:49 Monocle wrote: Yeah, these casters suck.
Only one of them piss me off, the one that keeps going HERP DERP.. then saying that Incontrol is terrible and his build sucks.. Wtf?
dude, he is being sarcastic. he is saying that because he is an incontrol fan and doesn't want to come off super bias toward inc. do you listen to what he says right before or after those comments?
I really, really wonder why Destiny didn't build roaches there. The warren finished right when the push arrived, and he had extra gas to build the roaches, and anyway infestors aren't good as reinforcement vs zealots.
I'm 90% sure he could have held if he had spammed roaches instead of lings there.
On August 14 2011 12:50 wei2coolman wrote: I wonder if incontrol got coaching lessons from combatex? lol, jkjk.
Yeah, incontrol is trying really hard to end games before destiny can get his infestors out w/ energy.
Yeah at first I was like come on incontrol stop with the semicheesy play... but then I realized yeah... destiny loves infestors so just go fucking kill him before he gets them out.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
On August 14 2011 12:49 Monocle wrote: Yeah, these casters suck.
Only one of them piss me off, the one that keeps going HERP DERP.. then saying that Incontrol is terrible and his build sucks.. Wtf?
dude, he is being sarcastic. he is saying that because he is an incontrol fan and doesn't want to come off super bias toward inc. do you listen to what he says right before or after those comments?
It doesn't matter if hes joking I've heard him say the words herp derp about 5 times in the span of 10 minutes and its annoying as fuck.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
On August 14 2011 12:50 wei2coolman wrote: I wonder if incontrol got coaching lessons from combatex? lol, jkjk.
Yeah, incontrol is trying really hard to end games before destiny can get his infestors out w/ energy.
Yeah at first I was like come on incontrol stop with the semicheesy play... but then I realized yeah... destiny loves infestors so just go fucking kill him before he gets them out.
it's a solid plan, but a problem with it, just shows how weak incontrol's pvz mid game is, if he's afraid to go into it, against destiny.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
Where's the all in? Expect for the blink I didn't see any all in I just need timing push to do dmg and that if it doesn't do that much dmg he will be down but he won't lose if he doesn't do dmg which is the definition of all in.
On August 14 2011 12:49 Monocle wrote: Yeah, these casters suck.
Only one of them piss me off, the one that keeps going HERP DERP.. then saying that Incontrol is terrible and his build sucks.. Wtf?
dude, he is being sarcastic. he is saying that because he is an incontrol fan and doesn't want to come off super bias toward inc. do you listen to what he says right before or after those comments?
It doesn't matter if hes joking I've heard him say the words herp derp about 5 times in the span of 10 minutes and its annoying as fuck.
Its fine if you don't like the herp derp, i was just saying that to clear up that he doesnt think incontrol is terrible and his builds suck
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
It's exploiting one dimensional play. It's called a timing attack, he's attacking before Destiny is able to get out his ideal composition. It's smart play.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
DT isn't tech? he was starting to get archons and was on as many bases as Destiny. So uh, destiny must be playing cheesy with the two base infestor rush than too.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
It's exploiting one dimensional play. It's called a timing attack, he's attacking before Destiny is able to get out his ideal composition. It's smart play.
yea its smart for Incontrol to do since he wants to win this, but from a spectator point of view its kinda boring.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
DT isn't tech? he was starting to get archons and was on as many bases as Destiny. So uh, destiny must be playing cheesy with the two base infestor rush than too.
After reading the no tech comment I thought I blinked and missed a game. Though figured at first he was talking about the game where Incontrol had dark templars. These might not be the most entertaining games to watch. Though I'm just happy that Incontrol is winning.
Blizzard really has to fix that. You can wall off 'perfectly' with a unit in a tight hole but if a ton of lings try to run past, a few will stream through.
Holy crap I remember that losira game. It was a hole that stalkers couldn't get through but zerglings could squeak right by. It blew my mind when it happened.
On August 14 2011 12:59 youngminii wrote: Blizzard really has to fix that. You can wall off 'perfectly' with a unit in a tight hole but if a ton of lings try to run past, a few will stream through.
I think it only happens if you don't position it just right.
On August 14 2011 12:59 youngminii wrote: Blizzard really has to fix that. You can wall off 'perfectly' with a unit in a tight hole but if a ton of lings try to run past, a few will stream through.
These guys usually just cast no-namers? Haven't heard of this channel before now.
Destiny has got to be expecting heavy aggression this game, its the only thing Incontrol has won with. It would be a great time to switch up his style.
i'm watching from destiny's stream, did incontrol fuck up with his macro somewhere or invest too much in DTs or something? his army just got rolled real fast that last game
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
These casters are some of the most blatantly biased casters I've ever seen, and it definitely takes away from the viewing experience. the chat is also filled with a bunch of idiots as well... *MUTE*
Hope someone figures out PvZ infestors soon... so strong.
On August 14 2011 13:06 jmbthirteen wrote: wait really? the last two maps are testbug and dual sight? Well shit, as long as they got to game 6 it was a Zerg win.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
It was pretty all in, he had to do serious damage inorder to make that attack worth it
On August 14 2011 12:52 Pwere wrote: I really, really wonder why Destiny didn't build roaches there. The warren finished right when the push arrived, and he had extra gas to build the roaches, and anyway infestors aren't good as reinforcement vs zealots.
I'm 90% sure he could have held if he had spammed roaches instead of lings there.
I think it is just him preferring holding with pure lings for more infestors (roache eats supply too much, you will need more overlords)
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
It was pretty all in, he had to do serious damage inorder to make that attack worth it
Dont try to argue whats an all in and whats not here man... ive stopped trying, not worth it. its never an all in if its not 1 base.
Interesting games, Destiny's PvZ style just looks so difficult to beat. Also for a guy whose improvement has largely come from mass laddering I really hope he gets another chance with a team one of these days, he puts some of the guys who've stagnated with lack of practice to shame
On August 14 2011 13:13 theBizness wrote: Imagine if Destiny had a consistent group of high level players to practice with...
The problem is that Destiny only does this one build for ever single ZvP. He never deviates. If he would just learn some other builds like fast Roach burrow (for early 6-7 gates), Baneling builds, Muta builds then he would be fearsome. He never gets far in tournaments because he never switches up his playstyle.
On August 14 2011 13:13 theBizness wrote: Imagine if Destiny had a consistent group of high level players to practice with...
The problem is that Destiny only does this one build for ever single ZvP. He never deviates. If he would just learn some other builds like fast Roach burrow (for early 6-7 gates), Baneling builds, Muta builds then he would be fearsome. He never gets far in tournaments because he never switches up his playstyle.
Yeah I think having better and consistent practice partners would help with this. Most of the time with on the ladder, he can just stick with his usual stuff and he doesn't always have access to competent people to test new builds/timings with. New people might force him to try new things or have suggestions.
On August 14 2011 13:17 Scila wrote: Jesus destiny could've insta killed like 5 zealots by killing that pylon...looks like his nerves are seriously killing him here.
All minerals and cooldown are returned when that happens. It's better to let them warp in and kill them manually.
On August 14 2011 13:17 Scila wrote: Jesus destiny could've insta killed like 5 zealots by killing that pylon...looks like his nerves are seriously killing him here.
You mean the warp in? Doing that doesn't kill them.
On August 14 2011 13:13 theBizness wrote: Imagine if Destiny had a consistent group of high level players to practice with...
The problem is that Destiny only does this one build for ever single ZvP. He never deviates. If he would just learn some other builds like fast Roach burrow (for early 6-7 gates), Baneling builds, Muta builds then he would be fearsome. He never gets far in tournaments because he never switches up his playstyle.
he does do all that except banelings. but he just prefers ling+infestors. I think it is because he can hold off so many different pushes with just this unit composition and so he is confident with it
On August 14 2011 13:17 Scila wrote: Jesus destiny could've insta killed like 5 zealots by killing that pylon...looks like his nerves are seriously killing him here.
All minerals and cooldown are returned when that happens. It's better to let them warp in and kill them manually.
Seriously? The minerals are returned if the pylon dies mid-warp?
On August 14 2011 13:17 Scila wrote: Jesus destiny could've insta killed like 5 zealots by killing that pylon...looks like his nerves are seriously killing him here.
All minerals and cooldown are returned when that happens. It's better to let them warp in and kill them manually.
Seriously? The minerals are returned if the pylon dies mid-warp?
Yup. No harm done unless your aim was just to stop reinforcements.
On August 14 2011 13:17 Scila wrote: Jesus destiny could've insta killed like 5 zealots by killing that pylon...looks like his nerves are seriously killing him here.
All minerals and cooldown are returned when that happens. It's better to let them warp in and kill them manually.
Seriously? The minerals are returned if the pylon dies mid-warp?
Yea. To be fair, if you kill a building that is producing a unit you get refunded the cost of the unit
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
Ok now i want some explanations, he did the same thing did no damage and lost. You still beleave that's not an all in ?
Why did Incontrol go for archon/zealot so much when Destiny went for roach/infestor? Archons are fine, but zealots just melt to roaches, so I just don't see what he was going for there.
On August 14 2011 13:24 KGB3496 wrote: Man.. after seeing these games, I have no idea what incontrol was doing with his army. He had poor control all games and suicided for no good reasons.
I hope he doesnt try and play it off by using the new experimental build excuse. He just didn't play well at all.
I'm a little confused why continue with DT instead of HT? HT = Storm, which would tickle the roach... but also feedback the overseer? Most zergs don't run with multiple detectors just like most protoss don't run multiple obs. Even doing feedback then using DTs would still give you an advantage, you just need to fire off your spells before fungals/NPs go down, or just... feedback everything + dark templars = win. almost like incontrol had the typical zerg player mentality "mash roaches/zerglings until i lose" except in his case more archons which get NP'd i'm very sadface
On August 13 2011 07:49 fer wrote: I expect iNcontroL to very convincingly stomp Destiny to the ground after the criticism he has had in the past for him. Glhf
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
Ok now i want some explanations, he did the same thing did no damage and lost. You still beleave that's not an all in ?
He wasn't far behind until he threw his army away to kill the third... He just failed after the mid-late game push.
Edit: an all-in kills u whether u or ur opponent when it happens... it did not. If anything he was behind on equal bases against a zerrg.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Ggs geoff you clearly need more practise vs this kind of style ! imho.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
There would have been haters either way, if you had won this thread would have been full with destiny haters. Either way great games by both of you.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
Ok now i want some explanations, he did the same thing did no damage and lost. You still beleave that's not an all in ?
He wasn't far behind until he threw his army away to kill the third... He just failed after the mid-late game push.
lol ? he was far behind all game after that push failed.
On August 14 2011 13:22 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Not even his macro is good. He was at 1,7k minerals there. What the hell is incontrol doing today??
I agree that iNcontroL didn't play too well, but he was floating so many minerals because he had to cancel about 4 buildings when Destiny found his fourth before it finished building.
On August 14 2011 13:23 JediGamer wrote: This was an awful set.....
Indeed. After the blizzard invitational this was really not great to watch...
Well what do you expect, these two are of a lower tier than those who participated in the Blizzard Invitational. Although Destiny's not that bad of a player than I previously thought he was. :p
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
They were great games man! The blink stalker play on metalopolis was sick.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Aka I played it for fun and not to win.
= boring games when you try things in a game you have never or almost never done.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
i really enjoyed you play, you did very well
god people love to ruin the fun so much, so annoying.
On August 14 2011 13:25 CidO wrote: I'm a little confused why continue with DT instead of HT? HT = Storm, which would tickle the roach... but also feedback the overseer? Most zergs don't run with multiple detectors just like most protoss don't run multiple obs. Even doing feedback then using DTs would still give you an advantage, you just need to fire off your spells before fungals/NPs go down, or just... feedback everything + dark templars = win. almost like incontrol had the typical zerg player mentality "mash roaches/zerglings until i lose" except in his case more archons which get NP'd i'm very sadface
Why do people say storm "tickles" roaches?
You do know it does 65% of their HP right? It's the same vs marauders.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
On August 13 2011 02:35 iNcontroL wrote: pvz is pretty fucking hard these days but I am looking forward for the opportunity to play a match of meaning in a matchup that needs work! ty for the invite, will do my best to make some gg's!
i'm sorry incontrol i like you alot, and maybe you missed typed, but you say this match-up needs work, I think it does but only for protoss to not be dumb, sorry man, but when I watch people bitch when there gateway armies are crushed by infestors, and they don't get HT I have no sympathy, even when they do get HT's they get like 4 HT's to like 20 infestors, doesn't work, you can feedback infestors before they can get a spell off, so the MU doesn't need work but the counter does, mass HT's counter mass infestor and no one has done that so far, so I have zero sympathy for someone who whines about it.
On August 14 2011 13:25 CidO wrote: I'm a little confused why continue with DT instead of HT? HT = Storm, which would tickle the roach... but also feedback the overseer? Most zergs don't run with multiple detectors just like most protoss don't run multiple obs. Even doing feedback then using DTs would still give you an advantage, you just need to fire off your spells before fungals/NPs go down, or just... feedback everything + dark templars = win. almost like incontrol had the typical zerg player mentality "mash roaches/zerglings until i lose" except in his case more archons which get NP'd i'm very sadface
Why do people say storm "tickles" roaches?
You do know it does 65% of their HP right? It's the same vs marauders.
If all the damage connects, which it pretty much never does.
On August 14 2011 12:51 r4pture wrote: Ugh. InControl is all-ining because he knows he can't deal with Destiny late game. Its working but it really sucks to watch.
ummm that wasn't an all in
6 gate no tech not an all in
Twilight council and dark shrine is tech.
Ok now i want some explanations, he did the same thing did no damage and lost. You still beleave that's not an all in ?
He wasn't far behind until he threw his army away to kill the third... He just failed after the mid-late game push.
lol ? he was far behind all game after that push failed.
No he wasn't, he was ahead on supply and even on bases right after the push.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its strange to hear you complain about fanboyism. It is worth playing the games for the legit fans that don't run their mouth (of which there are plenty.... 6k viewers, less than a couple of hundred posting, maybe half of which are being negative. No need to highlight the negativity.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Good job from what I saw of the series (missed part of it >.<) Not much you can do about the haters. People will hate on every showmatch/game/player.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
iNcontroL, thanks for the games. You had the best PvZ in the world for months...If you train hard you'll be the best again. You're the smartest Protoss PvZ player, just refine those mechanics! You're awesome!!
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
I don't like how much posting is just hate for hate's sake, either. I, for one, enjoyed the games. Good playing, man. Keep it up!
the worst thing on the internet is the 'hater' shit.
there are trolls in everything but anyone who criticizes anything these days is just tossed aside as a 'hater' while the person being criticized keeps their chin in the air like it's all good.
guess what, not everyone with a negative or different opinion is a 'hater' and sometimes people DESERVE to be criticized.
You can't keep on Zealot/Archon when Destiny transitions from his ling heavy to roach heavy army, he learned his leasson with a few losses to heavy zealot/archon and started to supplement heavy roach play earlier.
On August 14 2011 13:13 theBizness wrote: Imagine if Destiny had a consistent group of high level players to practice with...
The problem is that Destiny only does this one build for ever single ZvP. He never deviates. If he would just learn some other builds like fast Roach burrow (for early 6-7 gates), Baneling builds, Muta builds then he would be fearsome. He never gets far in tournaments because he never switches up his playstyle.
If someone meta games him he is able to switch it up. He is not a one trick pony by any means.
On August 14 2011 13:27 lbmaian wrote: iNcontroL needs to get IdrA to play like that so I he can practice against it - he just seemed flustered by it all.
It seemed to me like he was just playing around, having fun, and not taking it very seriously, but destiny apparently isn't the type you can play around with. He's really good. Nonetheless, it was fun to watch. Great games, imo.
On August 14 2011 13:30 crms wrote: the worst thing on the internet is the 'hater' shit.
there are trolls in everything but anyone who criticizes anything these days is just tossed aside as a 'hater' while the person being criticized keeps their chin in the air like it's all good.
guess what, not everyone with a negative or different opinion is a 'hater' and sometimes people DESERVE to be criticized.
anyway grats destiny.
well, if you think about it, people are complaining because they thought higher of the player. It isn't hating the player but was expecting more
On August 14 2011 13:30 crms wrote: the worst thing on the internet is the 'hater' shit.
there are trolls in everything but anyone who criticizes anything these days is just tossed aside as a 'hater' while the person being criticized keeps their chin in the air like it's all good.
guess what, not everyone with a negative or different opinion is a 'hater' and sometimes people DESERVE to be criticized.
Completely agree. Players gettin criticized for their play is not blind hating... People expected more of Incontrol and of the games overall. How is that hate.
There hasn't really been a lot of hate in this thread in my opinion.
The casters constantly talking about trolls I don't care about aside, I enjoyed the series. Only wish inc could have done some kind of phoenix opener one game, woulda been fun to see verse infestor play.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
On August 14 2011 13:32 rdj107 wrote: The casters constantly talking about trolls I don't care about aside, I enjoyed the series. Only wish inc could have done some kind of phoenix opener one game, woulda been fun to see verse infestor play.
On August 14 2011 13:30 crms wrote: the worst thing on the internet is the 'hater' shit.
there are trolls in everything but anyone who criticizes anything these days is just tossed aside as a 'hater' while the person being criticized keeps their chin in the air like it's all good.
guess what, not everyone with a negative or different opinion is a 'hater' and sometimes people DESERVE to be criticized.
anyway grats destiny.
i can assure you that the stuff that were talked on the stream chat WAS NOT a showing of different opoinion or a critic. this thread was more civil, but still...
Good games from the players. Casters did an okay job... most of the time. For the love of god, please stop saying stuff like, "Oh, I love the trolls! They give me so much more power! Keep trolling!!!!" It's really annoying, distracting, and it hurts your credibility (at least for me). Other than that, well done. I think it's fine to be biased as long as you're still respectful to both players, and you remember to first be a caster and a fan second.
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
These were not macro games. It was incontrol 'pressuring' versus infestors which is exactly what the concept of infestors counters. They kill units, don't die, and get mana back. 120 supply in 3 games is not a macro game.
I'm not a hater, I saw destiny entertainingly beat combatex earlier , I enjoyed watching it. I am a fan of incontrol for what he represents but he wasn't even following the basic standards of PvZ. Small amounts of zealots, an observer with the army, and +2 dmg. The amount of games I saw all of those in was 0. I get it, he is trying new things. Even when I try new things I still have standards.
Hopefully this showmatch is a wakeup call to get motivated. If you really can't think of ideas to beat infestors , I would gladly sit on skype with any top level player and discuss some of the standards that counter this type of play. PM me I guess, it burns my soul to see you lose like this.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
"I'd rather have snipe"
Think about that for a couple of minutes and get back to me if you truly feel that way. Feedback/Storm/Morph to Archon and can be warped in... sounds like a pretty good unit to me.
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
are you saying DT, chargelot and archons are the units to go against infestor roache? pretty sure even pure roache would have done well there
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
Dude, take a deep breath, relax, and understand, it was just a showmatch, incontrol was haveing fun. so what if he havnt did well against infestors ? he could have just cheesed his way in the showmatch and pretty much win against destiny, but instead he decided to play longer games just so people wont complain that he is a "noobish cheeser", and guess what ? either way people werent satesfied with his play.
For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
if this wasn't a showmatch and was a tournament, incontrol could've probably any form of early game cheese or all in and would've won the series. He knows that's how you beat destiny's build and destiny know's that's how you beat destiny's build. in two of the games destiny lost, he saw the attack coming or scouted the base, it's just that destiny's style is weak early game, so he still lost. Incontrol could definitely abuse that if he was actually playing to win
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
Dude, take a deep breath, relax, and understand, it was just a showmatch, incontrol was haveing fun. so what if he havnt did well against infestors ? he could have just cheesed his way in the showmatch and pretty much win against destiny, but instead he decided to play longer games just so people wont complain that he is a "noobish cheeser", and guess what ? either way people werent satesfied with his play.
give him a break...
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
There would have been haters either way, if you had won this thread would have been full with destiny haters. Either way great games by both of you.
so true :/ and well, two posts after your `welcoming` post on this thread, there was this guy calling destiny zerg scum, I hope u also have some words to this kind of people and not just pretend they dont exist. All im saying is either be imparcial, or be... idk.
thanks a lot to Stimtv and Incontrol for this nice games, and congrats for destiny winning another series
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
are you saying DT, chargelot and archons are the units to go against infestor roache? pretty sure even pure roache would have done well there
No I'm saying this BS about trying to show new builds is just that. He didn't really show anything new/different as he used the same build in nearly every game, I honestly just believe that he doesn't know how to counter Destiny's style. There is no shame in this, but the implication that "oah hey guys I was just trying to have a fun time out there I wasn't trying my hardest to win" is ridiculous and classic incontrol.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
"I'd rather have snipe"
Think about that for a couple of minutes and get back to me if you truly feel that way. Feedback/Storm/Morph to Archon and can be warped in... sounds like a pretty good unit to me.
I do feel that way. If I want to knock out energy EMP takes it all out in an aoe and if I need focused kill on an infestor snipe takes them out. With HT's you need double digit numbers to knock out energy of multiple targets.
It's pretty obvious to me that a focused damage and an aoe energy drain far exceeds an aoe damage and a focused energy drain. The storm just doesn't cleave the important targets the way snipe does because any donkey with a brain just moves his units out of storm and almost everything is hardy enough to survive a storm no matter how well placed.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
First you talk shit about a player, then when you lose in a bo7 you complain about the negativity (that you took a big part in stirring up) and make excuses for losing.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
"I'd rather have snipe"
Think about that for a couple of minutes and get back to me if you truly feel that way. Feedback/Storm/Morph to Archon and can be warped in... sounds like a pretty good unit to me.
I do feel that way. If I want to knock out energy EMP takes it all out in an aoe and if I need focused kill on an infestor snipe takes them out. With HT's you need double digit numbers to knock out energy of multiple targets.
It's pretty obvious to me that a focused damage and an aoe energy drain far exceeds an aoe damage and a focused energy drain. The storm just doesn't cleave the important targets the way snipe does because any donkey with a brain just moves his units out of storm and almost everything is hardy enough to survive a storm no matter how well placed.
If you are talking about energy vs energy units then yes. In general, storm > snipe.
On August 14 2011 13:42 Ubertron wrote: For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
Incontrol is not a "top-tier player," and 4-3 is not "consistent." Complain about infestors somewhere else.
On August 14 2011 13:42 Ubertron wrote: For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
Are you referring to iNcontroL as a top-tier player with consistency?
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
First you talk shit about a player, then when you lose in a bo7 you complain about the negativity (that you took a big part in stirring up) and make excuses for losing.
He didn't even talk shit. He said Destiny wasn't going to win MLG like 7 months ago. All the retards got worked up for no reason. "Incontrol says Destiny is a fucking terrible player bla bla." It's pretty ridiculous.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
"I'd rather have snipe"
Think about that for a couple of minutes and get back to me if you truly feel that way. Feedback/Storm/Morph to Archon and can be warped in... sounds like a pretty good unit to me.
I do feel that way. If I want to knock out energy EMP takes it all out in an aoe and if I need focused kill on an infestor snipe takes them out. With HT's you need double digit numbers to knock out energy of multiple targets.
It's pretty obvious to me that a focused damage and an aoe energy drain far exceeds an aoe damage and a focused energy drain. The storm just doesn't cleave the important targets the way snipe does because any donkey with a brain just moves his units out of storm and almost everything is hardy enough to survive a storm no matter how well placed.
If you are talking about energy vs energy units then yes. In general, storm > snipe.
Snipe's utility far exceeds storm's. I'd rather have a focused assassination on key targets than what effectively ends up being a zoning spell because every donkey knows how to micro his units back when he sees a slow-moving HT coming at him. Even a well placed storm isn't gonna murder a high priority target. It could work if HT's get more movespeed which is why I suggested that.
As it stands I see HT's as a pretty much crappy mirror of ghosts. Ghosts: focused damage, aoe energy drain. HT: focused energy drain, aoe damage. It's pretty obvious that with spellcasters being the high priority and micro being the variable that HT's just aren't cutting it.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
Dude, take a deep breath, relax, and understand, it was just a showmatch, incontrol was haveing fun. so what if he havnt did well against infestors ? he could have just cheesed his way in the showmatch and pretty much win against destiny, but instead he decided to play longer games just so people wont complain that he is a "noobish cheeser", and guess what ? either way people werent satesfied with his play.
give him a break...
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid.
i guess he didnt expected the negativity because he tried to entertain the crowed with fun builds (or what you call "retarded builds"), why would he blamed for that ? my guess is that if he would have won against destiny with cheese he would have acused as a "noobish cheeser" am i correct ?
as i look at it, its a lose lose situation for him, wheather he cheese and win, and then he get called a cheeser, or he try to entertain the crowed and lose, and then he get called a "bad player"...
On August 14 2011 13:42 Ubertron wrote: For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
Are you referring to iNcontroL as a top-tier player with consistency?
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
are you saying DT, chargelot and archons are the units to go against infestor roache? pretty sure even pure roache would have done well there
Chargelot archon ht vs infestor ling, swap chargelots for stalkers when the switch to roaches comes and be careful of your hts.
If you get favourable fights, you can win the game early on provided you press forward quickly. Remember infestors take 50 seconds to build, if you stomp his main army and get to the middle of his production lines quickly enough (and have a proxy pylon) you can end it.
Zerg's ultimate goal is broodlord-infestor-roach in this matchup, so I honestly think the old school death ball of void ray-colo-stalker with a few ht's+ sentries mixed in for feedbacks/storms would work pretty well in end game.
One truly underused aspect of the protoss army these days is using sentries to split the zerg army and keep the infestors out of fungal range while killing the roaches in front, making your army take a few steps backwards if necessary. In fact, against infestor roach before broods come out I think colossi/sentry/stalker could really wreck. Its almost as if protoss stop making sentries after they lose their first batch to infestors, when forcefield has and probably always will be the best spell to use against the zerg army.
On August 14 2011 13:42 Ubertron wrote: For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
Are you referring to iNcontroL as a top-tier player with consistency?
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
Dude, take a deep breath, relax, and understand, it was just a showmatch, incontrol was haveing fun. so what if he havnt did well against infestors ? he could have just cheesed his way in the showmatch and pretty much win against destiny, but instead he decided to play longer games just so people wont complain that he is a "noobish cheeser", and guess what ? either way people werent satesfied with his play.
give him a break...
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid.
i guess he didnt expected the negativity because he tried to entertain the crowed with fun builds (or what you call "retarded builds"), why would he blamed for that ? my guess is that if he would have won against destiny with cheese he would have acused as a "noobish cheeser" am i correct ?
as i look at it, its a lose lose situation for him, wheather he cheese and win, and then he get called a cheeser, or he try to entertain the crowed and lose, and then he get called a "bad player"...
to be fair Incontrol's play wasn't very entertaining. In the games where he didn't cheese or win with strong timing attacks(all the games he lost), he got stomped by Destiny pretty decisively. He just wasn't able to handle the mass infestor play.
Wow! I'm glad I wasn't reading this thread while the games were going on or it would have totally ruined it for me...Why is everyone being so negative?
iNcontroL played really nice and showed off some pretty interesting strategies...I was kind of disappointed when he played like "normal" protoss in a couple of the games. His decisions were questionable, like pushing out with like 3 archons and 4 zealots mid game...archons don't work like that :D
Destiny showed off some really good strategies as well...although if you've ever watched his stream you know he is pretty unconventional often. The infestor can pretty much do anything and I think that it might be a while before protoss really figure out how to deal with them. The way destiny plays really reminds me how protoss played when Sc2 first came out...he gets bases, sets up defense everywhere, and techs up to his big power unit.
You guys do know what a "Showmatch" is right? Just a fun set meant for entertainment value, for fun...I'm not sure why everyone is trying to make it seem like either player had something to prove. There was no "shit talk" unless you can show me a specific instance where either player said something overly negative about the other...the worst thing I remember incontrol saying about Destiny was that he thinks that Huk is a much better player and lost to destiny in the macro games they played based on the strength of the infestor and late game zerg.
It's really fun watching the game progress like this through different meta game stages and watching the people who play 8-10 hours a day try to break and come up with different strategies. Until you do that I don't think any of us can even try to complain about balance.
And why is everyone saying iNcontroL cheesed so much?? You guys do know that forge expand and putting cannons at the natural, and DT expand isn't cheese right?? You guys should really think before you post such nonsense.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
Its because you showed us that you play terribly vs Infestor builds and still complain about them being imba.
no that what the blind hatred tells you he did.
So you're saying he played well vs the Infestor builds? This is a guy who has criticized Destiny in the past and also complained about Infestors very recently, this was his chance to showcase both of these opinions. He could beat Destiny and show that he is better since he is a pro and Destiny is just a mid-tier player, and he could play standard and do what IdrA was saying (3 base turtle Colo style) and still lose to showcase how Infestors are "overpowered". Instead he did strange builds and played terrible (in general) and lost a showmatch that he should have won. I just think he could have used this showmatch as something other than "trying to make it fun". Fun isn't watching Zeal/Archon get demolished by Roach/Infestor and cannon rushes anyway.
Dude, take a deep breath, relax, and understand, it was just a showmatch, incontrol was haveing fun. so what if he havnt did well against infestors ? he could have just cheesed his way in the showmatch and pretty much win against destiny, but instead he decided to play longer games just so people wont complain that he is a "noobish cheeser", and guess what ? either way people werent satesfied with his play.
give him a break...
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid.
i guess he didnt expected the negativity because he tried to entertain the crowed with fun builds (or what you call "retarded builds"), why would he blamed for that ? my guess is that if he would have won against destiny with cheese he would have acused as a "noobish cheeser" am i correct ?
as i look at it, its a lose lose situation for him, wheather he cheese and win, and then he get called a cheeser, or he try to entertain the crowed and lose, and then he get called a "bad player"...
to be fair Incontrol's play wasn't very entertaining. In the games where he didn't cheese or win with strong timing attacks(all the games he lost), he got stomped by Destiny pretty decisively. He just wasn't able to handle the mass infestor play.
i did found the those games pretty entertaining, but i agree, its hard to try wierd builds or wierds army composition against a style like destiny to make it a fun game.
still, incontrol did managed to make a run for destiny's money in the early game matches, im sure incontrol will work super hard with the macro beast idra to improve his mid-late game, and who knowes, maybe one day we will witness a macro game win from incontrol in a humble ladder game against destiny
On August 14 2011 13:42 Ubertron wrote: For me the interesting thing is that Destiny, most people's idea of a 'mid-level pro' is having so much success with these infestor builds. Wait until the TOP guys start adopting this style more and tell me some balance changes aren't required
This isn't a balance QQ by any means, but lower level players are doing really well with these builds and taking games off top-tier players with consistency
Are you referring to iNcontroL as a top-tier player with consistency?
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
are you saying DT, chargelot and archons are the units to go against infestor roache? pretty sure even pure roache would have done well there
Chargelot archon ht vs infestor ling, swap chargelots for stalkers when the switch to roaches comes and be careful of your hts.
If you get favourable fights, you can win the game early on provided you press forward quickly. Remember infestors take 50 seconds to build, if you stomp his main army and get to the middle of his production lines quickly enough (and have a proxy pylon) you can end it.
Zerg's ultimate goal is broodlord-infestor-roach in this matchup, so I honestly think the old school death ball of void ray-colo-stalker with a few ht's+ sentries mixed in for feedbacks/storms would work pretty well in end game.
One truly underused aspect of the protoss army these days is using sentries to split the zerg army and keep the infestors out of fungal range while killing the roaches in front, making your army take a few steps backwards if necessary. In fact, against infestor roach before broods come out I think colossi/sentry/stalker could really wreck. Its almost as if protoss stop making sentries after they lose their first batch to infestors, when forcefield has and probably always will be the best spell to use against the zerg army.
problem is he still went chargelot, archon, DT against ROACHE infestors and he never warped in stalkers. the rest of what you have said can be true but I honestly don't play protoss. If anything, I would say they are cutting sentries because of the gas cost and they want the army to be a little bit more mobile when it gets to 3 bases
You serious about infestors being OP? If the players cannot adapt and invent strategies against it then there might be an ISSUE, but there should be time that A) strategy to get more popular, so plenty of people will try to deal it and maybe there are someone who figures it out (void ray+ colossi was and still is very silly combo if not handled properly).
If there just will not be any solution to stop against mass infestors, not even by mass ghost/mass templars then there is something off right there. Currently, we'll need to see how will the protoss/terran change their metagame against this unit combo if it will become as a standard build as for Zerg.
Why can't people just enjoy the game as it is? I bet there will never be a balanced game, atleast for fanboys who's hero just lost.
On August 14 2011 13:24 iNcontroL wrote: gg's! Kinda sad to see so much negativity in here.. not really worth playing destiny when so many haters want to make this less than fun.
Tried to make it fun and did different stuff each game. He won and played really well. Wish it could be more about the games!
Until next time!
The game that was most interesting to me was the lost temple game. It was nice to see your turtle style go against Destiny's strongest infestor build.
I would have liked to seen you split up your void rays and shift queued attacks over key points of the map with at least one if not both.
No need to tell you that if you had shift attacked a void ray over the rocks you would have pushed back those lings that snuck in, burrowed and killed all your sentries.
You played well and I think you should practice with Destiny in private. He's the best infestor control out there and it was cool to see you experiment literally EVERYTHING tonight. It was very informative.
I think the imbalance right now is that of the three spellcasters (ghosts, infestors, and HT's) HT's are the weakest. They need more move speed probably. They're like an inverse of ghosts. Feedback is a single target whereas EMP is an aoe, obviously EMP would be better. And snipe is a single target damage whereas storm is an aoe damage. I'd rather have snipe because storm fails against so much.
"I'd rather have snipe"
Think about that for a couple of minutes and get back to me if you truly feel that way. Feedback/Storm/Morph to Archon and can be warped in... sounds like a pretty good unit to me.
I do feel that way. If I want to knock out energy EMP takes it all out in an aoe and if I need focused kill on an infestor snipe takes them out. With HT's you need double digit numbers to knock out energy of multiple targets.
It's pretty obvious to me that a focused damage and an aoe energy drain far exceeds an aoe damage and a focused energy drain. The storm just doesn't cleave the important targets the way snipe does because any donkey with a brain just moves his units out of storm and almost everything is hardy enough to survive a storm no matter how well placed.
If you are talking about energy vs energy units then yes. In general, storm > snipe.
Snipe's utility far exceeds storm's. I'd rather have a focused assassination on key targets than what effectively ends up being a zoning spell because every donkey knows how to micro his units back when he sees a slow-moving HT coming at him. Even a well placed storm isn't gonna murder a high priority target. It could work if HT's get more movespeed which is why I suggested that.
As it stands I see HT's as a pretty much crappy mirror of ghosts. Ghosts: focused damage, aoe energy drain. HT: focused energy drain, aoe damage. It's pretty obvious that with spellcasters being the high priority and micro being the variable that HT's just aren't cutting it.
I could almost buy the EMP > Feedback argument, but it seriously matters on the situation. If you get hit by a rogue EMP you can retreat and regain energy, while feedback has no cooldown and can be spammed to kill 4 infestor in around 1 second. It seriously is situational in that respect.
Storm is so much better than snipe though and trying to argue to the contrary is a silly attempt. an AoE spell that does a lot of damage REALLY fast and makes zergling dead. Microing does NOT eliminate storms usefulness, since if you are microing roach, or any unit besides hydra (which get melted by storm/collo anyway) you are taking free hits from stalker/immortal/collo to dodge a psi storm.
Storm >>> snipe in almost every scenario. For sniping infestors I'd prefer HT's, the only scenario where snipe > Storm would be killing ultras/broodlord.
While you can't really make a point about the infestor's strength from just this showmatch (Destiny and iNcontrol are not top players by any means and are quite close in level, no offense intended, and they know it), iNcontrol is quite right when he said that Destiny can easily take games off much better players than him with pure infestors (Bomber, Rain, HuK, Ace, etc..).
Things that Protoss needs to figure out really begin to pile up (TvP's one base all ins, how to stop mass droning in PvZ...). Time for an hero to rise and show us how to do it (Puzzle gogo??) :D
On August 14 2011 14:52 PeZuY wrote: You serious about infestors being OP? If the players cannot adapt and invent strategies against it then there might be an ISSUE, but there should be time that A) strategy to get more popular, so plenty of people will try to deal it and maybe there are someone who figures it out (void ray+ colossi was and still is very silly combo if not handled properly).
If there just will not be any solution to stop against mass infestors, not even by mass ghost/mass templars then there is something off right there. Currently, we'll need to see how will the protoss/terran change their metagame against this unit combo if it will become as a standard build as for Zerg.
Why can't people just enjoy the game as it is? I bet there will never be a balanced game, atleast for fanboys who's hero just lost.
they plan on nerfing infestor for a reason, also most good zergs I know agree that infestors are a bit broken right now
On August 14 2011 13:25 Fission wrote: gg all. @incontrol - woulda prefered to see you try to win, rather than showcase fun builds. GL nexttime anyways.
You're delusional if you buy that BS. He was trying pretty hard to win and used similar comps and builds in nearly every game, he's just not that good and infestors are really fucking powerful ATM.
are you saying DT, chargelot and archons are the units to go against infestor roache? pretty sure even pure roache would have done well there
Chargelot archon ht vs infestor ling, swap chargelots for stalkers when the switch to roaches comes and be careful of your hts.
If you get favourable fights, you can win the game early on provided you press forward quickly. Remember infestors take 50 seconds to build, if you stomp his main army and get to the middle of his production lines quickly enough (and have a proxy pylon) you can end it.
Zerg's ultimate goal is broodlord-infestor-roach in this matchup, so I honestly think the old school death ball of void ray-colo-stalker with a few ht's+ sentries mixed in for feedbacks/storms would work pretty well in end game.
One truly underused aspect of the protoss army these days is using sentries to split the zerg army and keep the infestors out of fungal range while killing the roaches in front, making your army take a few steps backwards if necessary. In fact, against infestor roach before broods come out I think colossi/sentry/stalker could really wreck. Its almost as if protoss stop making sentries after they lose their first batch to infestors, when forcefield has and probably always will be the best spell to use against the zerg army.
problem is he still went chargelot, archon, DT against ROACHE infestors and he never warped in stalkers. the rest of what you have said can be true but I honestly don't play protoss. If anything, I would say they are cutting sentries because of the gas cost and they want the army to be a little bit more mobile when it gets to 3 bases
I think this shows a need for more Stargate or Robo support. Pure Gateway is really inflexible, even if you tech Templar + DT.
On August 14 2011 14:52 PeZuY wrote: You serious about infestors being OP? If the players cannot adapt and invent strategies against it then there might be an ISSUE, but there should be time that A) strategy to get more popular, so plenty of people will try to deal it and maybe there are someone who figures it out (void ray+ colossi was and still is very silly combo if not handled properly).
If there just will not be any solution to stop against mass infestors, not even by mass ghost/mass templars then there is something off right there. Currently, we'll need to see how will the protoss/terran change their metagame against this unit combo if it will become as a standard build as for Zerg.
Why can't people just enjoy the game as it is? I bet there will never be a balanced game, atleast for fanboys who's hero just lost.
they plan on nerfing infestor for a reason, also most good zergs I know agree that infestors are a bit broken right now
and whered you get that insider info? Infestors might be really powerful but OP of a leap.
I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
in addition to that the only way that it seemed to be beaten was through early allins that would easily be held off if destiny changed his build to pretty much anything else, and even without changing it could be held off without too many losses assuming the proper infestor micro
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
Well incontrol admitted (on the stim.tv podcast after the series) that his unit comp just wasn't that good to deal with the infestor roach build that Destiny was using. I mean it got to a point in the game where the Zealots were useless.
He also went on to say that they infestor does need to be looked at, which i completely agree. And it needs to be looked at in depth by not only blizzard, but pro players. I'm not ready to call it OP. It is very powerful, but it is beatable. I remember watching Socke vs Destiny in the IPL and how hard he owned the infestors with his feedbacks. I think incontrol should have went HT rather than DT and the one game he went HT (eventually) he just didn't have enough. I think more need to be built to deal with the mass infestors. Look at how many ghosts Thorzain uses in TvZ to deal with the mass infestors (and broodlords). Obviously ghosts have more use with sniping broodlords, but the HT's can use psi storm too.
I'm not ready to call the infestor OP, but it does need a serious look at.
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
In none of the games did I really feel like iNcontroL had the proper response prepared for Destiny's particular brand of Zerg, despite the fact that it would have been the easiest thing in the world to metagame the hell out of him.
I actually asked him after the cast and he quickly responded that Immortal/HT/Zealot is the way to go vs. Destiny's style and he never really utilized that particular composition, especially not to full affect. He only produced small amounts of Templar and 90% of the time they were almost immediately morphed to Archons, which I honestly feel don't fair too well against Roach/Infestor. They really shine vs. Muta-heavy builds and Zergling w/ Baneling drop play.
He also never really got a critical mass of Immortals to the point that he could punish Destiny's over-roaching. Again, I really feel like this is fundamental when trying to defeat Destiny's abusive and not easily countered style.
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
Did you watch the game on lost temple? Incontrol lost like 8 sentries because he broke down the rocks and never checked the other rocks with his void rays. He lost to lings not infestors.
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
in addition to that the only way that it seemed to be beaten was through early allins that would easily be held off if destiny changed his build to pretty much anything else, and even without changing it could be held off without too many losses assuming the proper infestor micro
Incontrol got completely outplayed in the macro games. The first game had the most useless stargate play that accomplished nothing and Destiny had really good counterattacks and burrow play that just rolled
Infestors are not really the problem if the P is playing horrible and relying on gimmicky shit like dts. Not scouting properly and going chargelot/archon vs roach is going to lose anyway. the Infestors is just a bonus.
And saying infestors are op off of games like these are not really right. Better to base them off of games versus players like puzzle/mc/Huk or Hero. From watching Heros stream top ladder kr zergs are ridiculous but if Mc could obliterate this style with top level micro/macro and the only answer to them is to get better they should not be nerfed.
tldr dont be 4 times worse then Destiny and expect to beat him just because you make chargelot archon blindly.
The fanboys whining here (and I love Incontrol) is ridiculus, Destiny has explained what you need to do against his build (early templars and then it turns into a normal game), and if you don't do it, you'll have problems. Just as you have to go Templars against Infestors, Zergs have to switch from Hydras when facing many colossi etc.
The problem is that Destiny gets a good economy and his opponents expects to take down 20 infestors with 5 high templars... It's only fair the numbers needs to be matched. Nerfing the Infestor would absolutely break the current metagame that hasn't even developed properly yet (make HT/Ghosts). I wish Blizzard would just leave the game alone for 6 months at the time.
On August 14 2011 17:52 Stiluz wrote: The fanboys whining here (and I love Incontrol) is ridiculus, Destiny has explained what you need to do against his build (early templars and then it turns into a normal game), and if you don't do it, you'll have problems. Just as you have to go Templars against Infestors, Zergs have to switch from Hydras when facing many colossi etc.
The problem is that Destiny gets a good economy and his opponents expects to take down 20 infestors with 5 high templars... It's only fair the numbers needs to be matched. Nerfing the Infestor would absolutely break the current metagame that hasn't even developed properly yet (make HT/Ghosts). I wish Blizzard would just leave the game alone for 6 months at the time.
Blizzard hasn't said they are going to nerf the infestor. David kim said they heard a lot of complaints about btoodlord/infestor and that they were going to look into it. That was in an interview at the hots preview a little while ago. That doesn't mean it will be nerfed, just that it will be looked into. Blizz said they would rather not do any balance changes before hots comes out.
On August 14 2011 15:54 Gatored wrote: I think something is wrong when going into a matchup where you have two players of about the same skill level and one of the players knows exactly what their opponent is going to do beforehand (Destiny with his double evo upgrade for lings and infestors off 2 base), to an exact build order, and yet still has trouble beating the player.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that's how the game should work.
You don't think that there should be any strong well rounded builds that don't auto lose to a hard counter(whether than be composition or timing)? I am not saying that infestors create this or that these matches in particular express this, but the philosophy of your statement is bad for competitive play imo. I can't argue strategy and what not within context of this game without feeling my own ignorance, but as someone who enjoys more than one kind of competitive game I do feel qualified to argue competitive game design. I certainly would rather the game have builds that are not auto countered by some magic unit composition or timing, than a game that grants you wins if you can guess or know your opponents build. The less it becomes about composition or early timings the more the game emphasizes other skills and decisions I think most people find more impressive/skillful than having just the right composition or early timing. I'm not saying something like a timing shouldn't exist as much as I'm saying that I see nothing wrong with a build that plays is safe to metagamed unit compositions and hard counters. Once again, this view is not attached to the infestor as a unit or these games just overall philosopy of the games design since you stated that you did not like having a game where Incontrol knows exactly what Destiny would do and still struggles.
The fact that Destiny lost to weaker players at MLG because his style was blind countered shows that if you know the response, it is not difficult to beat. Destiny himself said he needed a second style because being blind countered was something he was struggling to beat. This isn't IdrA where you know he is going muta ling bling but you are gonna lose anyway, Destiny's style is less robust and things like a zealot archon mass gate push is just a nightmare to defend without roaches. I can seriously doubt people can cite Destiny as a reason of Infestors op when he, being the only pioneer of this style, says it is not solid enough to defeat a blind counter or a scouted counter (pretty easy to scout). Against Terran, I don't think Destiny's style can defend all the muck Terran can deliver, and Terran can expand as freely as they want. 2 bfh in a mineral line is safe vs any number of lings (watch happy vs nestea) which means means Zerg can only attack once Broodlords are out, (unless you want to do an Ling infestor timing attack vs siege tanks lmao). I seriously doubt the build can defend the slayers drop either.
If Destiny's style can be countered at MLG by relatively unknown players, I don't see why progamers cannot.
At the highest levels of play, the infestor is no more than a support caster
Sorry bro, but criticizing Destiny and calling Infestors overpowered, then doing retarded builds vs Destiny's Infestor heavy builds, and then expecting there to be no negativity is pretty fucking stupid.
sweet jesus, it was a SHOWMATCH, they talk to each other on skype a lot, they like/respect each other
Stop injecting hate, whining and negativity into a farking computer game.
Next time you are watching GOM and you hear Tasteless put on his nerd voice saying "he's lost his passsionnn nyyyerr" - he's doing an impression of posters like yourself!
Some of you should watch the Destiny vs Mini showmatch on the Cazt of Zerg where Mini handles Destiny's infestor play pretty well. I think he went 4-0 against Destiny.
On August 14 2011 19:39 Micket wrote: If Destiny's style can be countered at MLG by relatively unknown players, I don't see why progamers cannot.
Cause some of these ''progamers'' are not actually good.
this.
Some progamers (not gonna name any names) market themselves well and are better personalities than they are players, which is how they derive money through coaching and are still in the scene.
On August 14 2011 21:18 tofubeans wrote: Some of you should watch the Destiny vs Mini showmatch on the Cazt of Zerg where Mini handles Destiny's infestor play pretty well. I think he went 4-0 against Destiny.
nah its easier for the low level players to say '' infestors are op '' rather than trying something against em.
On August 15 2011 05:00 Polskaa wrote: Everytime he calls out people on dodging. Hes doing it himself. I want to like this guy, but hes such a hypocrite.
On August 15 2011 05:00 Polskaa wrote: Everytime he calls out people on dodging. Hes doing it himself. I want to like this guy, but hes such a hypocrite.
Most recently would be the whole Incontrol stuff. I asked for 3 games then he said OK, then after 2 games (I think) I said I have to go. Then he thought I was lying and dodging, so he started flaming me and brought it up on TL. Then I flamed him back and overreacted quite a bit. The next day I played him more, humiliated him in a game, BM'd him, and posted the replay on TL.net. I'm not proud of this incident and I hope we can forgive and forget, just like many other incidents I've had with various gamers during my days of competitive gaming.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
well it certainly doesn't help when you go on a show and claim destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk. what are people supposed to think now that he lost to destiny in basically every macro game played in the series?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
On August 15 2011 05:00 Polskaa wrote: Everytime he calls out people on dodging. Hes doing it himself. I want to like this guy, but hes such a hypocrite.
Most recently would be the whole Incontrol stuff. I asked for 3 games then he said OK, then after 2 games (I think) I said I have to go. Then he thought I was lying and dodging, so he started flaming me and brought it up on TL. Then I flamed him back and overreacted quite a bit. The next day I played him more, humiliated him in a game, BM'd him, and posted the replay on TL.net. I'm not proud of this incident and I hope we can forgive and forget, just like many other incidents I've had with various gamers during my days of competitive gaming.
... Yep.
lol.. yep 1 year ago I got upset at a guy who left in the middle of a series. He then apologized for his behavior too...
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
well it certainly doesn't help when you go on a show and claim destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk. what are people supposed to think now that he lost to destiny in basically every macro game played in the series?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
Do you have any fucking idea why he got a fanbase in the first place? He was a TOTAL-FUCKING-SCRUB. He was 3300 rated masters in S1 but regularly got 3-5k viewers - why? Because he liked to yell shit at his opponents and BM the fuck out of them for no good reason. He just happened to raise in ranks because infestors were buffed and it opened up the possibility of a gimmicky playstyle. Now go suck his private parts on some justintv chat.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
well it certainly doesn't help when you go on a show and claim destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk. what are people supposed to think now that he lost to destiny in basically every macro game played in the series?
Well did incontrol ever say he is as good as huk?
and destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk
nice try. huk said destiny is really good. why don't you send a PM to huk and ask him if he thinks he's 6-7 times better than destiny?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
Do you have any fucking idea why he got a fanbase in the first place? He was a TOTAL-FUCKING-SCRUB. He was 3300 rated masters in S1 but regularly got 3-5k viewers - why? Because he liked to yell shit at his opponents and BM the fuck out of them for no good reason. He just happened to raise in ranks because infestors were buffed and it opened up the possibility of a gimmicky playstyle. Now go suck his private parts on some justintv chat.
You honestly don't sound much better than his fanboys.
I don't think anyone denies that his fanbase is what got him his huge fanbase, but he has gotten quite a bit better.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
Do you have any fucking idea why he got a fanbase in the first place? He was a TOTAL-FUCKING-SCRUB. He was 3300 rated masters in S1 but regularly got 3-5k viewers - why? Because he liked to yell shit at his opponents and BM the fuck out of them for no good reason. He just happened to raise in ranks because infestors were buffed and it opened up the possibility of a gimmicky playstyle. Now go suck his private parts on some justintv chat.
or maybe, just maybe, people noticed that he's been progressing literally the entire time he's been streaming, regardless of where he started, and that got people on board to watch him go from masters to taking games off established professionals.
but no, it's all the bm and infestors. sure why not!
Destiny has improved a ton, with a pretty much correlative DECREASE in his BM. But yeah because idiots spam TL with love for the guy he deserves hate......
Not his fault he attracts a lot of morons, Destiny seems a pretty cool why when actually called into other SC2 podcasts/streams and whatnot, and as I said before he's improving a lot, what's not to like?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
Do you have any fucking idea why he got a fanbase in the first place? He was a TOTAL-FUCKING-SCRUB. He was 3300 rated masters in S1 but regularly got 3-5k viewers - why? Because he liked to yell shit at his opponents and BM the fuck out of them for no good reason. He just happened to raise in ranks because infestors were buffed and it opened up the possibility of a gimmicky playstyle. Now go suck his private parts on some justintv chat.
or maybe, just maybe, people noticed that he's been progressing literally the entire time he's been streaming, regardless of where he started, and that got people on board to watch him go from masters to taking games off established professionals.
but no, it's all the bm and infestors. sure why not!
Yeah they watched him when he was high masters because he was taking games off pros... no, they could watch 100 other streams of high master or better players. They watched him because he was bm(in his own way) and abuses the overbuffed infestors.
On August 15 2011 06:15 BilltownRunner wrote: Yeah they watched him when he was high masters because he was taking games off pros... no, they could watch 100 other streams of high master or better players. They watched him because he was bm(in his own way) and abuses the overbuffed infestors.
it is because of the bm, lol.
the bolded is patently false and so is your silly premise that his stream had no other attraction other than bm and infestors. good day.
On August 15 2011 06:15 BilltownRunner wrote: Yeah they watched him when he was high masters because he was taking games off pros... no, they could watch 100 other streams of high master or better players. They watched him because he was bm(in his own way) and abuses the overbuffed infestors.
it is because of the bm, lol.
the bolded is patently false and so is your silly premise that his stream had no other attraction other than bm and infestors. good day.
you know how bad 3300 masters season one was? That was probably about top 500 on the US server at best. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with him getting viewers, but please don't try to say that he got his viewers because he was the greatest player on the planet or anything near that. Now he has improved a lot and is a good player.
He got a lot of viewers because he brought another aspect into the streaming, which was his personality. This along with him being a pretty good player led to an increase in popularity, which has continued to increase as he has improved.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
well it certainly doesn't help when you go on a show and claim destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk. what are people supposed to think now that he lost to destiny in basically every macro game played in the series?
Well did incontrol ever say he is as good as huk?
and destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk
nice try. huk said destiny is really good. why don't you send a PM to huk and ask him if he thinks he's 6-7 times better than destiny?
Yes, I'm gonna bring huk into this dumb discussion. And its called being nice. Huk is a Code S player who has won an MLG, DreamHack and Homestory Cup. Destiny has won... nothing? Huk is 6-7 times better than Destiny.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
well it certainly doesn't help when you go on a show and claim destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk. what are people supposed to think now that he lost to destiny in basically every macro game played in the series?
Well did incontrol ever say he is as good as huk?
and destiny is 6-7 times worse than huk
nice try. huk said destiny is really good. why don't you send a PM to huk and ask him if he thinks he's 6-7 times better than destiny?
Yes, I'm gonna bring huk into this dumb discussion. And its called being nice. Huk is a Code S player who has won an MLG, DreamHack and Homestory Cup. Destiny has won... nothing? Huk is 6-7 times better than Destiny.
Well, I guess Huk is 10 times better than inControl then... Eh?
Seriously, why the fuck is this even a discussion? Yes, Huk said Destiny is good, I doubt he was just "Being nice" since he apparently told Jinro and he doesn't really have any reason to make shit up to make Destiny look good when it comes to private conversations with teammates. As for comments in regards to Destiny's skill in comparison to Huk, why is that even a fucking question? Because inControl threw out some arbitrary number about who is better and by how much?
See, I just did the same in this post, it didn't mean anything because none of this nonsense in regards to Destiny's accomplishments mean anything. What have either of them won(Destiny and inControl)? Why are you comparing them to players like Huk at all, when neither of them have achievements anywhere close to his anyways?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Destiny isn't like Combatex and Deezer. If you weren't talking out of your ass you'd know that.
I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
On August 15 2011 05:05 svefnleysi wrote: Funny how he blames "the hate" when he's just afraid of losing again.
He lost 4-3, it's not like he is in any way worse than destiny. Destiny+combatex and their followers make up fucking 99 % of the reasons why the SC2 community has turned to utter shit. They both attract complete numbfucks with inferiority complexes, who sit day in day out glued to their screen, drooling and having microorgasms every time Destiny, Idra or Combatex goes "HAHA FUCK YOU YOU ARE BAD" on stream.
Infestors are soo OP right? Fucking learn how to use ghosts or HT's you complete cretins zerg took the time to start using infestors into their play why can't u. Zerg is the only race without an energy draining ability like emp or feedback, owned. Destiny is a baws.
On August 15 2011 06:51 karlmengsk wrote: Destiny and inControl are both cool dudes who are really good at Starcraft II. There you go.
No logic is allowed in this thread. Only frothing rage from all sides.
I wish I had watched this, might have to catch the VODS, I like incontrol and have been warming up to destiny as he has been improving at a consistent pace, although the tournament results aren't quite there yet, he's definitely getting better, and I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if he makes a decent mlg run sooner or later.
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
Man incontrol is way too weak. I mean I was kind of expecting weak results from him, since he doesn't seem to have much practice and even talent to be good.
Not that destiny is weak, but damn he goes mass infestor every game, just build mass HT's and feedback and you win.
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
On August 15 2011 07:19 thehitman wrote: Man incontrol is way too weak. I mean I was kind of expecting weak results from him, since he doesn't seem to have much practice and even talent to be good.
Not that destiny is weak, but damn he goes mass infestor every game, just build mass HT's and feedback and you win.
It's the roaches, man. Toss doesn't really have a great comp vs Roach Infestor, so it comes down to micro.
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
You ever actually read the chat that goes on in Destiny's stream?
The chat in EVERY video game related stream is the same, so it's a pretty useless thing to bring up
I'm pretty sure it's at least 20 times worse on Destiny's stream, even the mods last night were like "EZ" "RAPED" "INCHOLESTEROL" etc...
At least mods in other channels keep some semblance of order instead of just being as bad as the people they should be controlling.
I enjoyed watching the match, I thought they both played well and had some bad games. I watched both from destiny's point of view and the cast but the Destiny fans in both channels were ridiculous.
On August 15 2011 06:56 Swad1000 wrote: I really have a problem when people talk shit about one player being bad and then another being good based off of blind fanboyism. Maybe calling a group of 10k plus people who watch Destiny white trash is not the nicest thing in the world. What if they just tuned in to watch the more accomplished player stream with the higher ELO rank?
You ever actually read the chat that goes on in Destiny's stream?
The chat in EVERY video game related stream is the same, so it's a pretty useless thing to bring up
I'm pretty sure it's at least 20 times worse on Destiny's stream, even the mods last night were like "EZ" "RAPED" "INCHOLESTEROL" etc...
At least mods in other channels keep some semblance of order instead of just being as bad as the people they should be controlling.
I enjoyed watching the match, I thought they both played well and had some bad games. I watched both from destiny's point of view and the cast but the Destiny fans in both channels were ridiculous.
Wait... you're complaining about a CHAT? Not even in-game chat?
Those are the cesspool of interaction regardless of stream to varying degrees. Just let it go. =)
I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
On August 15 2011 07:40 Downside wrote: I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
I don't think this could have been put better. They both played exceptionally and I don't see why anyone would choose to take that away from either competitor.
Really impressed with the production quality that the Stim.TV guys put into the show match. Casting was a little weak at times but overall it was enjoyable.
Its funny to see how many anti-Destiny fans are being more BM than his fans. Its quite clear who supports him and who doesn't, more funny to see that his fans speak with calm intelligent words lacking in profanity where his haters are cursing all over the place.
I am a fan of Destiny because of his personality and his views on things inside and outside of starcraft. Yes the BM is funny sometimes, and sometimes he is just trolling because he got rocked by something he did prepare for, but for you to say the only reason for people enjoying Destiny is the BM has no real foundation.
As others have said, he has improved leaps and BOUNDS from when he was just complaining about imbalance because he wasn't good enough to think outside of the box. Now that he uses infestors as the backbone of his army he is considered as an abuser, where people dont complain about Protoss going sentries every game, or many terran's going bio with Medics every game. If you dont like infestors dont build them, if you have a hard time playing against infestor heavy play, go build some HT or phoenix, or ghosts. Think of your own counter! Blink on top of them with stalkers. Dont just complain about a strategy because its hard for YOU to beat, be the next starter of a metagame shift.
On August 15 2011 07:40 Downside wrote: I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
People hate him because he talks down on Destiny and has accomplished nothing special. The games showed low masters level pvz. The only wins were poorly executed timings trying to blind counter a build.
The worst part is how infestor imbalance was brought up after all of this in the interview and how terrible terrible biased and uninformed the casters were. Imbalance should never be discussed over such bad games with opinions on things like BFH coming from a gold terran.
On August 15 2011 07:40 Downside wrote: I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
People hate him because he talks down on Destiny and has accomplished nothing special. The games showed low masters level pvz. The only wins were poorly executed timings trying to blind counter a build.
The worst part is how infestor imbalance was brought up after all of this in the interview and how terrible terrible biased and uninformed the casters were. Imbalance should never be discussed over such bad games with opinions on things like BFH coming from a gold terran.
Come on, i don't say their play was stellar, but low masters are pretty bad. I'm mid master and I suck really hard too. You can't compare those.
Thankfully the people discussing afterwards don't have the ear of anybody significant at Blizzard. They didn't seem like the most informed people when it comes to the game. I'm not just talking about their individual skill levels - you don't have to be a high level grandmasters player to have a good understanding of the game.
On August 15 2011 07:40 Downside wrote: I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
People hate him because he talks down on Destiny and has accomplished nothing special. The games showed low masters level pvz. The only wins were poorly executed timings trying to blind counter a build.
This is the area where I think so many people are misguided. Incontrol doesn't go out of his way to let the community know of his criticisms of any player. However he is a member on two separate community podcasts in which he is asked to critique of players. He is just doing his part as a member of the podcast. People do not hold critics to a standard where they must be equivalent or greater than those they critique. Do you think Roger Ebert thinks himself a better director than that of those who's movies he bashes? Do you think those who read his criticisms believe that? No of course not, people understand the role of a critic. In this case however Incontrol is a player who is actively attempting to be the best he can, and at the same time providing his thoughts as a critic on these podcasts. This leads people to this misguided blending of the two, they think because he is a player that when he critiques it comes from a place of superiority. His roles as a player and critic are separate, people should not link them. If a critic were never allowed to critique those better than them the greats would never be held accountable for their mistakes or flaws.
If you dislike his views as a critic, combat his arguements to him as a critic, not as a player.
His roles as a player and critic are separate, people should not link them
This is fine, except he himself considers them linked, which is why he is able to justify his criticisms of others, but deny any spectator criticism of himself.
On August 15 2011 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: speaking for me nvs. is a bad idea.. especially since you are being 100% baseless in your claim.
Downside however has full permission to speak for me because in his 1 post he fucking rocked it.
So you agree with the fact that we should just call you out on your criticisms? How about on Sotg when you said destiny's playstyle wasn't a problem for you? trololol
On August 15 2011 07:40 Downside wrote: I wish Geoff wouldn't let the negativity of a vocal few deter him from the rematch, but I understand how it can. Geoff always says he needs to work on not giving the illogical haters as much notice as he does, continuing through with the next showmatch would be a step in that direction, just saying. Either way, goodluck to both players in the future.
People hate him because he talks down on Destiny and has accomplished nothing special. The games showed low masters level pvz. The only wins were poorly executed timings trying to blind counter a build.
This is the area where I think so many people are misguided. Incontrol doesn't go out of his way to let the community know of his criticisms of any player. However he is a member on two separate community podcasts in which he is asked to critique of players. He is just doing his part as a member of the podcast. People do not hold critics to a standard where they must be equivalent or greater than those they critique. Do you think Roger Ebert thinks himself a better director than that of those who's movies he bashes? Do you think those who read his criticisms believe that? No of course not, people understand the role of a critic. In this case however Incontrol is a player who is actively attempting to be the best he can, and at the same time providing his thoughts as a critic on these podcasts. This leads people to this misguided blending of the two, they think because he is a player that when he critiques it comes from a place of superiority. His roles as a player and critic are separate, people should not link them. If a critic were never allowed to critique those better than them the greats would never be held accountable for their mistakes or flaws.
If you dislike his views as a critic, combat his arguements to him as a critic, not as a player.
If you read the posts in this thread, people were critical of both his gameplay in this bo7 AND his opinions on ITG. Of course Destiny's fans are not exactly delighted when Incontrol said Huk is 6-7 times better than him, an opinion that not even Huk himself shares considering he said Destiny was really good. As for his gameplay, it was quite obvious in the macro games that he had no answers to infestors and showed some lackluster play. Whether he was just "trying new things" or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that people are allowed to criticize, they're allowed to have opinions. If the opinions are inappropriate the mods deal with them. It's completely unreasonable to call everyone who has negative opinions/criticisms of Incontrol as either a personality or player a "hater" which is the direction that he and his fans are taking in this thread.
On August 15 2011 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: speaking for me nvs. is a bad idea.. especially since you are being 100% baseless in your claim.
Downside however has full permission to speak for me because in his 1 post he fucking rocked it.
So you agree with the fact that we should just call you out on your criticisms? How about on Sotg when you said destiny's playstyle wasn't a problem for you? trololol
Yup, even on reddit in the post he made where people could ask him questions, he said he never had trouble with destinys style and a turtle playstyle works. Yet, he didnt do this and could only cheese his way to win (cannon rushing? come on, especially when you try it more than once, it shows you are inferior to your opponent and cant win a normal game....and you said you wanted to show good games? who wants to see cannon rushes.. ). Lets be serious here, if incontrol was a good player, he wouldn't have a problem with beating destiny, since he has repeatedly said that destiny is not a good player, critique or not because he makes himself look like a great player. Infestors will not make a bad player beat a 'pro' gamer on a team like EG, even though we all know EG isnt a top foreign team in skill, but still.
Although i think Destiny is an underrated player, good protosses can still beat him, he isnt unstoppable, because of infestors, like people are claiming (huk is an example). Destiny is a very, very smart player, and it seems that he will only get credit for his skill when he places well at a mlg, which is unfortunate because he has shown how good he can be several times. The IPL tourny was at an early stage in his build, im sure that he would beat axslav if they were to play again. At mlg he lost to terran timing pushes, doesnt mean that hes a bad player, all zergs lose to them, he just needs to work on his early TvZ more.
InControl has continuously hated on destiny, even this past week on inside the game, he said huk was 4x better than him, so what is destiny, 10 x better than incontrol? because every macro game that was played, incontrol got rolled. this is not because of the infestor, at all. just watch the games, in game 2, destinys burrow roach micro was insane and amazing to see. Keeping your HTS in an open area unguarded and having one NP'd to Feedback 2 other of your HT's is not blamed on balance. Give me a break, then he claims that he was just trying new build, and repeatedly throughout the stream kept saying 'trying to make this work!' LOfuckingL what a joke. Trying to make archon zealot work against what? Cannon rushing work against what? mass roach? Just watch game 2, that alone will show you how much better of a player destiny is than incontrol, and im not being a fanboy, because im not, im saying it how it is.
This is why people are hating on incontrol, and rightfully so, instead of congratulating his opponent, he mentions how infestors are op, and how hes trying a new strategy. Also says that nobody knows how to beat infestors PvZ, when Ps have a unit that is a counter to infestors. If destiny makes 20 infestors, why not make 20 high templars? 20 infestors are useless after feedback(can also be killed) meanwhile high templars can just become archons, one of the most powerful units PvZ.Not to mention, 20 high templars with storm is a very powerful, scary thing for a zerg. He got completely outplayed and has never been good, destiny is a better player than you incontrol, yet you will not admit it, and blame how you try new things, give the sc2 communtiy a break.
People need to stop hating on Destiny and the success that he has had recently, his build is after all, his build and he is a creative player in that aspect, an aspect which MANY pro gamers do not have. Can someone point me to any pro player that has better infestor micro than Destiny? Nobody does, Destiny is a beast with infestors, and that is a skill hes gained. As he continues to improve his mechanics, he will surpass zergs like Idra, especially since Idras micro is terrible, all he does is whine about balance, and is not creative at all, , his macro is what makes him great, but that's a whole nother discussion.
It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny then? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
Well Cannon rush is really good strategy. The one "who shall not be named" is a top10 grandmaster. You dont always have to go the gateway tech route. Its a strategy if it works it works. You may not win a tournament ever, you can top4, but how far can it really take you but youll be able to take off those games.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
Right, just ignore it because you cant say anything.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
He clearly is the troll when he writes 5 times more than you and has a decent argument, while you just ignore him. Makes sense.
On August 15 2011 10:21 iNcontroL wrote: believe what you want bud There is a reason you make a new account each time you attack me or someone else on this forum..
Im not attacking you, and i dont make new accounts each time i want 'attack someone'. I dont remember the past account i had, so i made this one. Instead of saying stuff to get away from what i said, you can contribute more to the conversation by replying to what i said and not go around it.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
He clearly is the troll when he writes 5 times more than you and has a decent argument, while you just ignore him. Makes sense.
you are 8 posts into an account and you've already been temp banned.
you call me a scared inferior player for cannon rushing when that is literally done by every single protoss player at the highest of levels to the lowest of levels.. you are LITERALLY just saying X = bad and attaching it to my name over and over again.
You misquote what I said about huk and then go off on some horrid interpretation and start applying REALLY bad/random math to an already arbitrary figure and in doing so continue to misunderstand what I was saying entirely.
Then you make 2-3 more paragraphs going on and on about why people are correct to flame/hate on me and why I am a bad player.. but the funniest part of it all is
you ask for a fucking response
AND I GIVE IT
damn it sometimes I am almost as stupid as idiot trolls like you say. But certainly not in the way you think.. just in that I actually give you the time of day.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
Then why use these arbitrary multipliers to describe Destiny's skill level relative to Huk's? Most people including his fans would agree that Huk is the better overall player and if you had said that it would be fine, but to describe it as 6-7 times better is just ridiculous. No one is going to look at those numbers and derive ulterior meanings of the form that you just described.
On August 15 2011 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: speaking for me nvs. is a bad idea.. especially since you are being 100% baseless in your claim.
Downside however has full permission to speak for me because in his 1 post he fucking rocked it.
So you agree with the fact that we should just call you out on your criticisms? How about on Sotg when you said destiny's playstyle wasn't a problem for you? trololol
Yup, even on reddit in the post he made where people could ask him questions, he said he never had trouble with destinys style and a turtle playstyle works. Yet, he didnt do this and could only cheese his way to win (cannon rushing? come on, especially when you try it more than once, it shows you are inferior to your opponent and cant win a normal game....and you said you wanted to show good games? who wants to see cannon rushes.. ). Lets be serious here, if incontrol was a good player, he wouldn't have a problem with beating destiny, since he has repeatedly said that destiny is not a good player, critique or not because he makes himself look like a great player. Infestors will not make a bad player beat a 'pro' gamer on a team like EG, even though we all know EG isnt a top foreign team in skill, but still.
Although i think Destiny is an underrated player, good protosses can still beat him, he isnt unstoppable, because of infestors, like people are claiming (huk is an example). Destiny is a very, very smart player, and it seems that he will only get credit for his skill when he places well at a mlg, which is unfortunate because he has shown how good he can be several times. The IPL tourny was at an early stage in his build, im sure that he would beat axslav if they were to play again. At mlg he lost to terran timing pushes, doesnt mean that hes a bad player, all zergs lose to them, he just needs to work on his early TvZ more.
InControl has continuously hated on destiny, even this past week on inside the game, he said huk was 4x better than him, so what is destiny, 10 x better than incontrol? because every macro game that was played, incontrol got rolled. this is not because of the infestor, at all. just watch the games, in game 2, destinys burrow roach micro was insane and amazing to see. Keeping your HTS in an open area unguarded and having one NP'd to Feedback 2 other of your HT's is not blamed on balance. Give me a break, then he claims that he was just trying new build, and repeatedly throughout the stream kept saying 'trying to make this work!' LOfuckingL what a joke. Trying to make archon zealot work against what? Cannon rushing work against what? mass roach? Just watch game 2, that alone will show you how much better of a player destiny is than incontrol, and im not being a fanboy, because im not, im saying it how it is.
This is why people are hating on incontrol, and rightfully so, instead of congratulating his opponent, he mentions how infestors are op, and how hes trying a new strategy. Also says that nobody knows how to beat infestors PvZ, when Ps have a unit that is a counter to infestors. If destiny makes 20 infestors, why not make 20 high templars? 20 infestors are useless after feedback(can also be killed) meanwhile high templars can just become archons, one of the most powerful units PvZ.Not to mention, 20 high templars with storm is a very powerful, scary thing for a zerg. He got completely outplayed and has never been good, destiny is a better player than you incontrol, yet you will not admit it, and blame how you try new things, give the sc2 communtiy a break.
People need to stop hating on Destiny and the success that he has had recently, his build is after all, his build and he is a creative player in that aspect, an aspect which MANY pro gamers do not have. Can someone point me to any pro player that has better infestor micro than Destiny? Nobody does, Destiny is a beast with infestors, and that is a skill hes gained. As he continues to improve his mechanics, he will surpass zergs like Idra, especially since Idras micro is terrible, all he does is whine about balance, and is not creative at all, , his macro is what makes him great, but that's a whole nother discussion.
Ok it's nice and very fun(I guess) to Write gigantic essays theory crafting and shitting on decent players but maybe you should try to do something else like uhm...... Get off that moral high horse saddle, take a cab back to earth, open up a pc and realize how shit you are in comparison to the players you are calling bad. Seriously you are making destiny out to be the next jaedong when he has been eliminated in the 2nd round of mlg's open bracket, twice. Oh btw morrow/dimaga/stephano are all better at controlling their infestors.
On August 15 2011 10:26 iNcontroL wrote: you are 8 posts into an account and you've already been temp banned.
you call me a scared inferior player for cannon rushing when that is literally done by every single protoss player at the highest of levels to the lowest of levels.. you are LITERALLY just saying X = bad and attaching it to my name over and over again.
You misquote what I said about huk and then go off on some horrid interpretation and start applying REALLY bad/random math to an already arbitrary figure and in doing so continue to misunderstand what I was saying entirely.
Then you make 2-3 more paragraphs going on and on about why people are correct to flame/hate on me and why I am a bad player.. but the funniest part of it all is
you ask for a fucking response
AND I GIVE IT
damn it sometimes I am almost as stupid as idiot trolls like you say. But certainly not in the way you think.. just in that I actually give you the time of day.
I was banned for telling the community how much of an idiot your own teammate is, Idra, for saying 'fuck you' to Mana after losing to him. That is so childish and disrespectful its not even funny. You keep bringing up my account, why dont you ignore my account for a second and respond to what i actually had to say?
So cannon rushing is done by every single player? Really? how many games did you cannon rush? can you point me to a pro that cannon rushed as many times as you did, in a bo7?
the rest of what you wrote is just trying to ignore what i actually said, which is pretty funny. Why dont you point out every single thing i said, and provide some response to it, instead of ignoring 95% of what i wrtoe and only replying to LOLWUT CANNON RUSHING IS DONE BY EVERYONEZ!
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
On August 15 2011 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: speaking for me nvs. is a bad idea.. especially since you are being 100% baseless in your claim.
Downside however has full permission to speak for me because in his 1 post he fucking rocked it.
So you agree with the fact that we should just call you out on your criticisms? How about on Sotg when you said destiny's playstyle wasn't a problem for you? trololol
Yup, even on reddit in the post he made where people could ask him questions, he said he never had trouble with destinys style and a turtle playstyle works. Yet, he didnt do this and could only cheese his way to win (cannon rushing? come on, especially when you try it more than once, it shows you are inferior to your opponent and cant win a normal game....and you said you wanted to show good games? who wants to see cannon rushes.. ). Lets be serious here, if incontrol was a good player, he wouldn't have a problem with beating destiny, since he has repeatedly said that destiny is not a good player, critique or not because he makes himself look like a great player. Infestors will not make a bad player beat a 'pro' gamer on a team like EG, even though we all know EG isnt a top foreign team in skill, but still.
Although i think Destiny is an underrated player, good protosses can still beat him, he isnt unstoppable, because of infestors, like people are claiming (huk is an example). Destiny is a very, very smart player, and it seems that he will only get credit for his skill when he places well at a mlg, which is unfortunate because he has shown how good he can be several times. The IPL tourny was at an early stage in his build, im sure that he would beat axslav if they were to play again. At mlg he lost to terran timing pushes, doesnt mean that hes a bad player, all zergs lose to them, he just needs to work on his early TvZ more.
InControl has continuously hated on destiny, even this past week on inside the game, he said huk was 4x better than him, so what is destiny, 10 x better than incontrol? because every macro game that was played, incontrol got rolled. this is not because of the infestor, at all. just watch the games, in game 2, destinys burrow roach micro was insane and amazing to see. Keeping your HTS in an open area unguarded and having one NP'd to Feedback 2 other of your HT's is not blamed on balance. Give me a break, then he claims that he was just trying new build, and repeatedly throughout the stream kept saying 'trying to make this work!' LOfuckingL what a joke. Trying to make archon zealot work against what? Cannon rushing work against what? mass roach? Just watch game 2, that alone will show you how much better of a player destiny is than incontrol, and im not being a fanboy, because im not, im saying it how it is.
This is why people are hating on incontrol, and rightfully so, instead of congratulating his opponent, he mentions how infestors are op, and how hes trying a new strategy. Also says that nobody knows how to beat infestors PvZ, when Ps have a unit that is a counter to infestors. If destiny makes 20 infestors, why not make 20 high templars? 20 infestors are useless after feedback(can also be killed) meanwhile high templars can just become archons, one of the most powerful units PvZ.Not to mention, 20 high templars with storm is a very powerful, scary thing for a zerg. He got completely outplayed and has never been good, destiny is a better player than you incontrol, yet you will not admit it, and blame how you try new things, give the sc2 communtiy a break.
People need to stop hating on Destiny and the success that he has had recently, his build is after all, his build and he is a creative player in that aspect, an aspect which MANY pro gamers do not have. Can someone point me to any pro player that has better infestor micro than Destiny? Nobody does, Destiny is a beast with infestors, and that is a skill hes gained. As he continues to improve his mechanics, he will surpass zergs like Idra, especially since Idras micro is terrible, all he does is whine about balance, and is not creative at all, , his macro is what makes him great, but that's a whole nother discussion.
Ok it's nice and very fun(I guess) to Write gigantic essays theory crafting and shitting on decent players but maybe you should try to do something else like uhm...... Get off that moral high horse saddle, take a cab back to earth, open up a pc and realize how shit you are in comparison to the players you are calling bad. Seriously you are making destiny out to be the next jaedong when he has been eliminated in the 2nd round of mlg's open bracket, twice. Oh btw morrow/dimaga/stephano are all better at controlling their infestors.
Morrow dimaga and stephano are all better players than destiny, i am not sure if their infestor micro is better, however, but thats irrelevant to my whole argument as this is between incontrol and destiny. if i have to get off my high horse bla bla bla, why is it that incontrol can call every player bad? he even talked all this shit about ostojoy or however u spell his name, just because he isnt known when he went on to the invitational and showed he is a great player, who has more skill than a player like incontrol,
People say that the games were of low skill level, and to be honest, I slightly agree. But one cannot talk down the creativity of each players unique plays. Both players showed significant creativity in their play. Whether it was a creative 2 pronged attack which Destiny did, or a somewhat weird timing that iNcontrol hits, the play was not exactly "standard." PvZ is arguably the hardest matchup because of the creative use of infestors. Yeah "HT COUNTER INFESTOR BRO" but as Destiny showed, with ONE slip of the Protoss' micro, the Zerg can NP a HT and feedback at least one other HT before the Protoss would even notice unless they were STARING at the main screen while hovering of that specific HT. The play was most certainly not low masters. Most people who post, including myself, have no chance of competing with any professionals and have no right commenting on balance. I am not commenting on balance, I am merely repeating what I saw and also repeating what multiple players have stated.
While people badmouth iNcontrol and say he is "in a slump," you have to look at his previous commitments with NASL, SotG, and anything else he so willingly takes on. While those aren't excuses they are commitments. I know, well hope, that the players in the EG house will improve their skill level. iNcontrol, while not exactly the next protoss NesTea as of now, is undoubtedly is a great role model of mine, both for his good manner and his community outreach through GosuCoaching. I am a big fan of the podcasts iNcontrol does, and yes most of the members BM Destiny in a slight way, all the members respect him and iNcontrol has stated after every single time he BM's that he in no way hates Destiny and respects him as a member of the community, although they do have a few quarrels every now and then. Destiny and iNcontrol get along to some extent.
Destiny's fanbase, as misguided as some people are, is not 100% idiots. While yes some of them attempt to troll as hard as Destiny does (which is not possible), it does not mean all of them are trolls. I think it's great that people will follow Destiny over a bridge and through hell but belittling them does nothing except feed there need for attention. Destiny's, indisputably, is a creative player and has changed the ZvP meta game to some extent. I personally think this is fantastic because as in BW, it takes quite some time for the game to become "balanced." P.S. This is from my point of view and I do not speak for either of these players, although I am a big fan of both regardless of what happens in the future, unless one of them quits... Also, I may have missed a few points as this was my feeble attempt at multitasking but hopefully I got my point across...
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
id love to see the rest of the games but idras bm is justified in many cases and i agree with nearly everytime i see it. who gives a crap if he no gg or no gl hf, i dont gg when i lose games because i beat myself or lose to something dumb. gg stands for GOOD GAME i dont considering losing to myself or something dumb a good game so why type it. If you watched the series idra owned him in the ipl i believe it was mana or who ever it was was playing a pathedic style that if i lost to i would bm the hell out of him as well. back to the current topic who cares if he cannon rush? its a strat, strat i dont agree with but its part of the race.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
id love to see the rest of the games but idras bm is justified in many cases and i agree with nearly everytime i see it. who gives a crap if he no gg or no gl hf, i dont gg when i lose games because i beat myself or lose to something dumb. gg stands for GOOD GAME i dont considering losing to myself or something dumb a good game so why type it. If you watched the series idra owned him in the ipl i believe it was mana or who ever it was was playing a pathedic style that if i lost to i would bm the hell out of him as well. back to the current topic who cares if he cannon rush? its a strat, strat i dont agree with but its part of the race.
On August 15 2011 10:35 BLCabeldank wrote: People say that the games were of low skill level, and to be honest, I slightly agree. But one cannot talk down the creativity of each players unique plays. Both players showed significant creativity in their play. Whether it was a creative 2 pronged attack which Destiny did, or a somewhat weird timing that iNcontrol hits, the play was not exactly "standard." PvZ is arguably the hardest matchup because of the creative use of infestors. Yeah "HT COUNTER INFESTOR BRO" but as Destiny showed, with ONE slip of the Protoss' micro, the Zerg can NP a HT and feedback at least one other HT before the Protoss would even notice unless they were STARING at the main screen while hovering of that specific HT. The play was most certainly not low masters. Most people who post, including myself, have no chance of competing with any professionals and have no right commenting on balance. I am not commenting on balance, I am merely repeating what I saw and also repeating what multiple players have stated.
While people badmouth iNcontrol and say he is "in a slump," you have to look at his previous commitments with NASL, SotG, and anything else he so willingly takes on. While those aren't excuses they are commitments. I know, well hope, that the players in the EG house will improve their skill level. iNcontrol, while not exactly the next protoss NesTea as of now, is undoubtedly is a great role model of mine, both for his good manner and his community outreach through GosuCoaching. I am a big fan of the podcasts iNcontrol does, and yes most of the members BM Destiny in a slight way, all the members respect him and iNcontrol has stated after every single time he BM's that he in no way hates Destiny and respects him as a member of the community, although they do have a few quarrels every now and then. Destiny and iNcontrol get along to some extent.
Destiny's fanbase, as misguided as some people are, is not 100% idiots. While yes some of them attempt to troll as hard as Destiny does (which is not possible), it does not mean all of them are trolls. I think it's great that people will follow Destiny over a bridge and through hell but belittling them does nothing except feed there need for attention. Destiny's, indisputably, is a creative player and has changed the ZvP meta game to some extent. I personally think this is fantastic because as in BW, it takes quite some time for the game to become "balanced." P.S. This is from my point of view and I do not speak for either of these players, although I am a big fan of both regardless of what happens in the future, unless one of them quits... Also, I may have missed a few points as this was my feeble attempt at multitasking but hopefully I got my point across...
this is exactly what im trying to say and i am excited to see what incontrol can do with more practice as he starts to get away from his casting responsibilities becasue early sc he was great, deffinitly droped with less time to practice and i believe he will get back to his great abilities in a couple of months. and destiny will continue to improve and i think if he can come up with more build orders he will become that much of a better player
On August 15 2011 10:35 BLCabeldank wrote: People say that the games were of low skill level, and to be honest, I slightly agree. But one cannot talk down the creativity of each players unique plays. Both players showed significant creativity in their play. Whether it was a creative 2 pronged attack which Destiny did, or a somewhat weird timing that iNcontrol hits, the play was not exactly "standard." PvZ is arguably the hardest matchup because of the creative use of infestors. Yeah "HT COUNTER INFESTOR BRO" but as Destiny showed, with ONE slip of the Protoss' micro, the Zerg can NP a HT and feedback at least one other HT before the Protoss would even notice unless they were STARING at the main screen while hovering of that specific HT. The play was most certainly not low masters. Most people who post, including myself, have no chance of competing with any professionals and have no right commenting on balance. I am not commenting on balance, I am merely repeating what I saw and also repeating what multiple players have stated.
While people badmouth iNcontrol and say he is "in a slump," you have to look at his previous commitments with NASL, SotG, and anything else he so willingly takes on. While those aren't excuses they are commitments. I know, well hope, that the players in the EG house will improve their skill level. iNcontrol, while not exactly the next protoss NesTea as of now, is undoubtedly is a great role model of mine, both for his good manner and his community outreach through GosuCoaching. I am a big fan of the podcasts iNcontrol does, and yes most of the members BM Destiny in a slight way, all the members respect him and iNcontrol has stated after every single time he BM's that he in no way hates Destiny and respects him as a member of the community, although they do have a few quarrels every now and then. Destiny and iNcontrol get along to some extent.
Destiny's fanbase, as misguided as some people are, is not 100% idiots. While yes some of them attempt to troll as hard as Destiny does (which is not possible), it does not mean all of them are trolls. I think it's great that people will follow Destiny over a bridge and through hell but belittling them does nothing except feed there need for attention. Destiny's, indisputably, is a creative player and has changed the ZvP meta game to some extent. I personally think this is fantastic because as in BW, it takes quite some time for the game to become "balanced." P.S. This is from my point of view and I do not speak for either of these players, although I am a big fan of both regardless of what happens in the future, unless one of them quits... Also, I may have missed a few points as this was my feeble attempt at multitasking but hopefully I got my point across...
this is exactly what im trying to say and i am excited to see what incontrol can do with more practice as he starts to get away from his casting responsibilities becasue early sc he was great, deffinitly droped with less time to practice and i believe he will get back to his great abilities in a couple of months. and destiny will continue to improve and i think if he can come up with more build orders he will become that much of a better player
That's the point i'm trying to make in BW i loved iNcontrol he was a fantastic player because, from what I remember, he had very few responsibilities compared to what he has now. And if Destiny differs his play and becomes more then 2 dimensional, I'm scared to see what he becomes because he does practice about 10 hours a day....
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
Incontrol wins despite being a lesser player with great cannon play... see how that can be turned around?
infestors are part of the game just because you view them as cheesy and way too good (which I can't see how since destiny is the only zerg who goes this mass infestor style) doesn't mean that the wins he gets with the style are inferior. He's not a better player than Huk but he's not leagues below him.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
Incontrol wins despite being a lesser player with great cannon play... see how that can be turned around?
infestors are part of the game just because you view them as cheesy and way too good (which I can't see how since destiny is the only zerg who goes this mass infestor style) doesn't mean that the wins he gets with the style are inferior. He's not a better player than Huk but he's not leagues below him.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
Incontrol wins despite being a lesser player with great cannon play... see how that can be turned around?
infestors are part of the game just because you view them as cheesy and way too good (which I can't see how since destiny is the only zerg who goes this mass infestor style) doesn't mean that the wins he gets with the style are inferior. He's not a better player than Huk but he's not leagues below him.
I think he was mainly talking about the highest level of play, and while I do not know what league you are in, I THINK while not actually KNOWING that you are not at the highest level of play.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
id love to see the rest of the games but idras bm is justified in many cases and i agree with nearly everytime i see it. who gives a crap if he no gg or no gl hf, i dont gg when i lose games because i beat myself or lose to something dumb. gg stands for GOOD GAME i dont considering losing to myself or something dumb a good game so why type it. If you watched the series idra owned him in the ipl i believe it was mana or who ever it was was playing a pathedic style that if i lost to i would bm the hell out of him as well. back to the current topic who cares if he cannon rush? its a strat, strat i dont agree with but its part of the race.
wtf idra's bm is jutified in many cases, wtf is wrong with you
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
id love to see the rest of the games but idras bm is justified in many cases and i agree with nearly everytime i see it. who gives a crap if he no gg or no gl hf, i dont gg when i lose games because i beat myself or lose to something dumb. gg stands for GOOD GAME i dont considering losing to myself or something dumb a good game so why type it. If you watched the series idra owned him in the ipl i believe it was mana or who ever it was was playing a pathedic style that if i lost to i would bm the hell out of him as well. back to the current topic who cares if he cannon rush? its a strat, strat i dont agree with but its part of the race.
wtf idra's bm is jutified in many cases, wtf is wrong with you
isnt the right thread to be discussing idra considering this is about destiny vs incontrol but thats my personal opinion on every game i have witnessed he behaves correctly
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
speaking from an outside view this guy clearly has something against incontrol and idra and probably eg as a whole which i dont understand because i think they are a great team. i didn't have the chance to watch all the games only the first one but from what i saw incontrol deffinitly wasn't playing his best and destiny was playing great. not saying who is better i would love to see more games between the two. destiny does have a particular strategy that i rather enjoyed watching on his stream him playing against huk and beating huk with this strat but huk did also win games against this strat so it is possible. balance wise infestors r good unit, they do take skill, i would rather have HT because arcons r good units 2.
lolwut? I actually like Idra has a player, hes a great player but his bm is ridiculous, just look at vids of him a year ago, whos this nerd trying to be? be urself, be respectful to people, this is a video game, and Idra is trying to be some e-thug.
As for incontrol, its the things he says, which i am pointing out, and all he can do is ignore them.
You can start by watching the rest of the series, and not reply until you watched all games, as im sureyour attitude would change drastically.
id love to see the rest of the games but idras bm is justified in many cases and i agree with nearly everytime i see it. who gives a crap if he no gg or no gl hf, i dont gg when i lose games because i beat myself or lose to something dumb. gg stands for GOOD GAME i dont considering losing to myself or something dumb a good game so why type it. If you watched the series idra owned him in the ipl i believe it was mana or who ever it was was playing a pathedic style that if i lost to i would bm the hell out of him as well. back to the current topic who cares if he cannon rush? its a strat, strat i dont agree with but its part of the race.
wtf idra's bm is jutified in many cases, wtf is wrong with you
Making sense of retarded fanboyism. It can kill you.
On August 15 2011 10:06 iNcontroL wrote: It's odd to make a post that large and be wrong the entire time o_O
"hating on destiny" by calling the HMC / Dreamhack champion Huk a better player by 4 to 5 times (completely arbitrary). Context was that Destiny wins despite being a lesser player with great infester play... not sure how that statement gets people so confused. You want to argue Destiny is about Huk's level? Do you? Then what about my statement is wrong?
And in general your assessment of my skill is based on silver level logic... not really going to address it. Cannon rushing does not equate "fear" or being a lesser player wtf
How am i wrong the entire time? Can you tell us how much of a better player you are than Destiny than? How is that imbalanced also, Infestors can be controlled very badly, as your own teammate Idra has shown, do you think he would have the same result as destiny if he uses infestors against huk? Even destiny has stated that infestors are a unit that have a high skill cap, you dont simply a move or studder step micro them. you have to be good with them.
And about cannon rushing, give me a break lol. Why would you cannon rush if you want to show us great games, as you said?
speaking with you any further would be feeding the trolls I am going to start showing more reserve!
Right, just ignore it because you cant say anything.
The last refuge of the internet warrior; claiming you've won when people give up trying to explain how fucking wrong you are.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.stim.tv/images/random/destinyvsincontrol.jpg)
I'll catch the vods though for sure =D BTW in the future, alongside the two american timezones, it'd be nice with a UTC or CEST time aswell >_>
