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On August 11 2011 17:20 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:16 mcc wrote:On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless. Definitely. If they are going to change something, it should be to make PDD more problematic to get so early. In today's games Tassadar could have had somewhat better positioning, but PDD making stalkers useless, which is the only ranged protoss unit seems really hard to get any shots at the tanks. Ravens aren't even needed in the 1-1-1 composition. Lots of players don't even use them, they just go straight banshees and it seems to work just as well. I'm not sure that's the problem of this rush, it's just a combination of factors. I haven't seen today's games so I'm not sure what went on, but I can guess by the sounds of it! Good to see JYP beat DRG, haven't seen protoss win vs a decent zerg for a while.
But making big changes at once is not a good idea either and I think 1-1-1 without raven is defensible reasonably on ok-maps, you still need more skill to hold than to execute, but I don't see it as problem. And even with raven without PDD it still seems to be doable, so I would start with PDD if in near future solution is not found and Blizzard decides to do aomething.
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On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran.
What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 StaplerPhone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Deltablazy wrote:On August 11 2011 17:12 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:10 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 17:09 SEANSYE wrote:
For me personally, I think the SCV are a HUGE reason why this attack is soooo good. They buffer so well and can repair so fast. I mean the ranged units of the marines, banshees, and siege tanks go to work while not taking any hits cause of scvs and pdd. SCVs aren't that standard of a component. Yoda just needed them because his timings were so poor. no, scvs are a huge part of this push and just about everyone that does it pulls at least like 10 scvs this 1 base timing would fail horribly if you didn't pull scvs because they're also there to tank some splash from the tanks while protecting your marines The scvs were killed in the first battle. Tassadar was ahead by 21 workers and could have definitely won the game had he a-moved his units at the 2nd battle. From there on, FF ramp, build 3 phoenix to lift off the tanks if he was contained and go for the win. Just like Wolf said, Yoda won the first battle but he still had to get to the protoss' base. He lost that game cuz he made a mistake and not because 1-1-1 imba auto win. Even if Tassadar did make a mistake Yoda already botched the 1-1-1 incredibly.
And he almost "blind hard"-countered the 1/1/1 both times. Phoenix are still kind of gimmicky against other openings and blind all inning to counter another all in is not what we want.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 StaplerPhone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Deltablazy wrote:On August 11 2011 17:12 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:10 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 17:09 SEANSYE wrote:
For me personally, I think the SCV are a HUGE reason why this attack is soooo good. They buffer so well and can repair so fast. I mean the ranged units of the marines, banshees, and siege tanks go to work while not taking any hits cause of scvs and pdd. SCVs aren't that standard of a component. Yoda just needed them because his timings were so poor. no, scvs are a huge part of this push and just about everyone that does it pulls at least like 10 scvs this 1 base timing would fail horribly if you didn't pull scvs because they're also there to tank some splash from the tanks while protecting your marines The scvs were killed in the first battle. Tassadar was ahead by 21 workers and could have definitely won the game had he a-moved his units at the 2nd battle. From there on, FF ramp, build 3 phoenix to lift off the tanks if he was contained and go for the win. Just like Wolf said, Yoda won the first battle but he still had to get to the protoss' base. He lost that game cuz he made a mistake and not because 1-1-1 imba auto win. Even if Tassadar did make a mistake Yoda already botched the 1-1-1 incredibly.
Yep, looked like he panicked and didn’t know what to do when he saw 1 base phoenix, randomly plopped down a cc and grabbed all of his scv’s when it finished -_-
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Damn, I come to work, saw that JYP has beaten DRG, started reading the reports and it was just two super-weird games.
(and yes, I'm 100% intentionally not gonna comment on the 111s..)
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On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not.
The only mandatory upgrade for this push is siege. Every other upgrade is optional, and with the exception of cloak, almost never gotten.
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On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not.
Emp ~ Storm
PDD
Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers.
Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans?
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On August 11 2011 17:25 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:20 AxionSteel wrote:On August 11 2011 17:16 mcc wrote:On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless. Definitely. If they are going to change something, it should be to make PDD more problematic to get so early. In today's games Tassadar could have had somewhat better positioning, but PDD making stalkers useless, which is the only ranged protoss unit seems really hard to get any shots at the tanks. Ravens aren't even needed in the 1-1-1 composition. Lots of players don't even use them, they just go straight banshees and it seems to work just as well. I'm not sure that's the problem of this rush, it's just a combination of factors. I haven't seen today's games so I'm not sure what went on, but I can guess by the sounds of it! Good to see JYP beat DRG, haven't seen protoss win vs a decent zerg for a while. But making big changes at once is not a good idea either and I think 1-1-1 without raven is defensible reasonably on ok-maps, you still need more skill to hold than to execute, but I don't see it as problem. And even with raven without PDD it still seems to be doable, so I would start with PDD if in near future solution is not found and Blizzard decides to do aomething.
Even if somehow Ravens don't have PDD, that's not to say Auto-turrets will not be just as effective. 150+ health, 10/8 ground/air dps, can be repairable. Its just another defensive layer wall that the SCV's can repair and zealots will have to grind thru to get to the siege tanks.
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On August 11 2011 17:21 Deltablazy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:12 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:10 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 17:09 SEANSYE wrote:
For me personally, I think the SCV are a HUGE reason why this attack is soooo good. They buffer so well and can repair so fast. I mean the ranged units of the marines, banshees, and siege tanks go to work while not taking any hits cause of scvs and pdd. SCVs aren't that standard of a component. Yoda just needed them because his timings were so poor. no, scvs are a huge part of this push and just about everyone that does it pulls at least like 10 scvs this 1 base timing would fail horribly if you didn't pull scvs because they're also there to tank some splash from the tanks while protecting your marines The scvs were killed in the first battle. Tassadar was ahead by 21 workers and could have definitely won the game had he a-moved his units at the 2nd battle. From there on, FF ramp, build 3 phoenix to lift off the tanks if he was contained and go for the win. Just like Wolf said, Yoda won the first battle but he still had to get to the protoss' base. He lost that game cuz he made a mistake and not because 1-1-1 imba auto win.
well at that point Yoda had 2 orbitals so his income wasn't as bad as you'd think, also they were both starting to mine out their mains meaning that having more workers* loses its effective a bit due to fewer mineral patches.
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On August 11 2011 17:30 Yang Wenli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:25 mcc wrote:On August 11 2011 17:20 AxionSteel wrote:On August 11 2011 17:16 mcc wrote:On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless. Definitely. If they are going to change something, it should be to make PDD more problematic to get so early. In today's games Tassadar could have had somewhat better positioning, but PDD making stalkers useless, which is the only ranged protoss unit seems really hard to get any shots at the tanks. Ravens aren't even needed in the 1-1-1 composition. Lots of players don't even use them, they just go straight banshees and it seems to work just as well. I'm not sure that's the problem of this rush, it's just a combination of factors. I haven't seen today's games so I'm not sure what went on, but I can guess by the sounds of it! Good to see JYP beat DRG, haven't seen protoss win vs a decent zerg for a while. But making big changes at once is not a good idea either and I think 1-1-1 without raven is defensible reasonably on ok-maps, you still need more skill to hold than to execute, but I don't see it as problem. And even with raven without PDD it still seems to be doable, so I would start with PDD if in near future solution is not found and Blizzard decides to do aomething. Even if somehow Ravens don't have PDD, that's not to say Auto-turrets will not be just as effective. 150+ health, 10/8 ground/air dps, can be repairable. Its just another defensive layer wall that the SCV's can repair and zealots will have to grind thru to get to the siege tanks.
You generally just don’t wanna make many stalkers vs this also with or without pdd, because of tanks.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 Obaten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. Dark swarm? Not brood war anymore lolol. But i guess PDD does really fill the role of dark swarm. Never really thought about it that way. And I guess you're right about the stalker needing to have something to stop it in the later game.
Since we're theory-crafting, I personally wouldn't mind seeing PDD go more dark swarm than it is now. If it did block all (or at least more) ranged attacks like old-school DS, you could perhaps put it on fusion core or armory and reduce the aoe a little to make it late game. I'm sure that would completely break the whole damn game (TvT for one), but still.
Regardless I feel like PDD doesn't get used enough for how awesome a spell it is. This is literally the one thing people do with it. If blizz does decide to nerf the 1-1-1 by nerfing the PDD, it'd be nice if they did it in a way that didn't render the spell completely obsolete.
However, as a protoss, I would probably have to change my pants if they did give stalkers instant shot.
EDIT: Also yes, I actually don't think a PDD nerf would solve this. The push is scary as hell even when it doesn't come with any ravens at all.
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i believe i have a build that is good at countering the 1/1/1 and have been using it the last 2weeks , and any protoss out there that thinks they are good enough at executing a terran 1/1/1 may feel free to PM me and you can battle me and see if your 1/1/1 can beat me
or if any tosses out there have a good terran friend to fight me, you can tell him to pm me and i can create a replay with us fighting
the build is a zero sentry build that gets 1 very fast voidray, 3-4 stalkers, and a fast robo (at about 5:30) because it cut sentrys it has enough gas to do all of this. the build ONLY gets 1 voidray, to scout, since marines without stim cannot catch a voidray. and i bring my stalkers with the voidray during the scouting mission so if he has a viking i can save the vray and know he got a super fast starport and is going 1/1/1
heres the build
9pylon (scout with probe)
2 chronoboosts on nexus
14gate
15gas
16pylon
17gas
chronoboost on nexus
19cyber
make stargate+stalker immediately after cyber is done. this allows the terran to scout the stargate, but guess what, who cares. i dont give a damn. let him scout it, he can stop doing a 1/1/1 if he scouts it and i feel at this point i can react properly to whatever he does
i poke his ramp with my first stalkers to see if he is fast expanding. if he is fast expanding i get a expansion too. because im not getting sentrys i go for a fast collossi if i scout plenty barracks. i get ONLY 1 voidray out of the stargate for nothing other than scouting purposes. the voidray in total costs 400/300, however since marines without stim cannot catch it i normally can kill 1 marine or scv or a depot at the 6 minute mark then run away and recharge shields which if you reduce that from the cost of the voidray that means the real cost of the voidray is like 300/300, and for its cost it has some power in combat but most importantly the voidray provides a full complete scout at the 6 minute mark (it reaches the terran base at 6 minutes) because you get it so fast
the voidray comes out at around 5:30 and i scout with it before the terran can have stim
the voidray+stalkers beats any fast rush the terran could do, and normally after 4-5 stalkers i stop and make mostly immortal+zealot and go for a fast collossi. the fast 2 gasses and no sentries gives lots of gas for a fast tech
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On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans?
I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility.
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On August 11 2011 17:32 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans? I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility.
Did you actually just say ghosts are more expensive than HTs? Really?
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On August 11 2011 17:31 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:21 Deltablazy wrote:On August 11 2011 17:12 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:10 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 17:09 SEANSYE wrote:
For me personally, I think the SCV are a HUGE reason why this attack is soooo good. They buffer so well and can repair so fast. I mean the ranged units of the marines, banshees, and siege tanks go to work while not taking any hits cause of scvs and pdd. SCVs aren't that standard of a component. Yoda just needed them because his timings were so poor. no, scvs are a huge part of this push and just about everyone that does it pulls at least like 10 scvs this 1 base timing would fail horribly if you didn't pull scvs because they're also there to tank some splash from the tanks while protecting your marines The scvs were killed in the first battle. Tassadar was ahead by 21 workers and could have definitely won the game had he a-moved his units at the 2nd battle. From there on, FF ramp, build 3 phoenix to lift off the tanks if he was contained and go for the win. Just like Wolf said, Yoda won the first battle but he still had to get to the protoss' base. He lost that game cuz he made a mistake and not because 1-1-1 imba auto win. well at that point Yoda had 2 orbitals so his income wasn't as bad as you'd think, also they were both starting to mine out their mains meaning that having more workers* loses its effective a bit due to fewer mineral patches.
Yoda was so awful he didn't even make the 2nd orbital. He had a 2nd cc sitting there.
Being forced to include stalkers or phoenix to deal with the banshee (and having the stalkers then run into PDD) is really rough, I hope this gets figured out fast. Is this all-in is still around a month from now I really am worried about starcraft 2's success as a game.
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On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans?
Autoturrets are pretty great. They do the same DPS as one marine and last up to 3 ingame minutes (without durable materials), as well has having a ton of health due to being a structure. However, they cost twice as much energy as an infested terran. Infested terrans out DPS regular marines, but have limited mobility that makes them suck a little, as well as short lifespans. I kind of like autoturrets more since they can harass mineral lines better by virtue of lasting a long time, and the fact that ravens have better mobility than infestors.
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On August 11 2011 17:32 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans? I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility.
Ghost - HT
Raven - ....Mothership?!?!
Clearly the counter is 1 base mothership to vortex the tanks.
... actually. How fast can you get carriers out? Would Carrier+zealot work? I uhm... dont even know what I'm saying anymore.
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On August 11 2011 17:34 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:32 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans? I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility. Did you actually just say ghosts are more expensive than HTs? Really?
ya?
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On August 11 2011 17:36 susySquark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:32 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans? I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility. Ghost - HT Raven - ....Mothership?!?! Clearly the counter is 1 base mothership to vortex the tanks. ... actually. How fast can you get carriers out? Would Carrier+zealot work? I uhm... dont even know what I'm saying anymore.
Man I wish, but only having 8 interceptors isn't enough to kill all his marines.
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On August 11 2011 17:37 Obaten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:36 susySquark wrote:On August 11 2011 17:32 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:30 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:25 forsooth wrote:On August 11 2011 17:21 Sabu113 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:18 Obaten wrote:
How about making it so stalkers do instant damage instead of being blocked by PDD? Dark swarm is a great ability and Terrans might eventually have to dare i say it think about incorporating it into more builds. Kinda stupid ability if it doesn't stop stalker shots. edit: kinda interesting how expensive so many toss upgrades/spells are that come for free to terran. What do you mean? PDD may be free but stim, shield, concussive, cloak, and siege mode are not. Emp ~ Storm PDD Ok I was too hyperbolic still think those two are so good as to warrant upgrade status. Ravens feel underrated though I can understand as sufficient viking numbers can be built up without switching techlab with starport. PDD just naturally seems so good. I can't stop thinking about defilers. Actually while we're on ravens how do turrets compare with infested terrans? I don't think it's fair to compare ghosts to hts... like ever for anything.... ghosts are more expensive, come out of barracks, and can't also warp into archons. They're very different units and have different types of utility. Ghost - HT Raven - ....Mothership?!?! Clearly the counter is 1 base mothership to vortex the tanks. ... actually. How fast can you get carriers out? Would Carrier+zealot work? I uhm... dont even know what I'm saying anymore. Man I wish, but only having 8 interceptors isn't enough to kill all his marines.
Thats what the zealots are for! (killing/tanking marines, that is)
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EPT
