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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Fuck yeah Ganzi!
JUST DO IT.
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On August 03 2011 14:46 KoTakUEurO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:44 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I really hope tgun beats Maru, come on, man. i really want to cheer for tgun, but i have a soft spot for the young players w/ potential (Creator, Dream too)
tgun is young.
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Wow, seeing a lot of 1 base terran vs protoss games.
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Ganzi's banshees are pretty sick.
Glad to see him tie up the series 1-1.  Thought he was dead when that warp prism drop hit.
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GANZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII WOOOOOYAHHH!!!
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On August 03 2011 14:44 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:35 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:27 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:26 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:24 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:22 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 14:19 mTw|NarutO wrote:
There you have your counterpart to Terrans 1-1-1 allin. Protoss 1 gate into 6 gate allin. Equally hard to scout / deal with. or the 3gate/stargate. I've seen the 6gate and 3gate/stargate held off with plenty more frequency than Terran's 1-1-1. I believe MMA held off Naniwa's 3gate/stargate just by massing marines. Do you think MMA & Naniwa are the same level? True. But look at my post, I added more. And that many marines simply denies the Void Rays, so even looking at Naniwa making micro errors, MMA never felt like he was going to just be overwhelmingly overrun like many Protosses look like against 1-1-1. I've actually never seen a 6 or 7 gate fail in a progame. Or nearly never. Its a really strong allin. I agree that the 1-1-1 is insanely hard to hold if, if not nearly impossible. But I do think most Protoss react wrong to it. You need the robo only for 1 observer and after you need 5 gateways to warp in mass stalker. Try to get as much time as possible and pull your probes if he engages. You need them. Every 40damage on a probe is no 40damage on a stalker. 6/7 gates have failed before. Off the top of my head, Sage failed one against PuMa in the iCCup weekly a week or so ago, and just GG'd when it was held off. My question to you is, if the 6gate is as powerful as 1-1-1, why don't we see it being used more to great effect? I've seen anyPro, Tassadar, Inca, MC, HuK, Puzzle, and Vines all fall to it recently. Why aren't Protosses doing the same thing to Terrans and winning tons of games against powerful Terran opponents? I'm just not seeing it nearly as often as 1-1-1 lately, so I'm confused as to why it's not used more often. Obviously, all these players want to win, so I don't see why they wouldn't use it more (as often as T 1-1-1's Protoss) if it's as strong as you say... I think because a) it is defendable even if its really hard and b) if Protoss wants information on what Terran is doing. The thing is, you have to 1 gate expand to do a really hard 6 gate push and lots of Terrans punish the 1 gate expand with the 1-1-1 allin or semi-allin. Maybe its because the Protoss players do like their alternatives with mid or lategame, I don't know. Yeah, so the 1-1-1 kind of counters the 6gate, no? In other words, the Protoss all-in that you say is as hard to hold off as the 1-1-1 all-in is actually countered by the 1-1-1 all-in.  You are talking like the 1-1-1 is undefendable. Its really hard, but you can defend it. It might be a bit too strong, but I'd say an allin should be insanely hard to defend, but not impossible. The thing is that you don't know if its allin or not. The earliest time you KNOW its this allin, you might already have made the wrong decision or wrong tech. You can only assume its coming and if you assume it from the start you can defend it pretty well.
I'm sorry if I was talking as if the 1-1-1 is undefendable, because I definitely don't believe that. I'm just saying that it's a bit depressing that Protoss's 1-1-1 equivalent in strength is countered by Terran's 1-1-1. I've seen 1-1-1 held off on a few occasions, (MMA vs. HuK, Ryung vs. MC), but both games, they made some pretty critical errors in execution (I think MMA forgot siege mode, and Ryung just played way too passive). Perhaps if you could PM me a replay or link me to a game where someone holds off a perfectly executed 1-1-1, I'd find it very educational.
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On August 03 2011 14:47 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:46 KoTakUEurO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:44 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I really hope tgun beats Maru, come on, man. i really want to cheer for tgun, but i have a soft spot for the young players w/ potential (Creator, Dream too) tgun is young.
He's young and beautiful (no homo).
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DRG and BoxeR don't have to beat each other to advance do they? It says they are both in group 2 on the front page.
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Any word on any other PSW guys?
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On August 03 2011 14:49 Maghetti wrote:
DRG and BoxeR don't have to beat each other to advance do they? It says they are both in group 2 on the front page.
Group 2 has three groups within it.
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On August 03 2011 14:49 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:47 FXOpen wrote:On August 03 2011 14:46 KoTakUEurO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:44 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I really hope tgun beats Maru, come on, man. i really want to cheer for tgun, but i have a soft spot for the young players w/ potential (Creator, Dream too) tgun is young. He's young and beautiful (no homo).
handsome zerg
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On August 03 2011 14:49 bbQ4Aiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:49 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:47 FXOpen wrote:On August 03 2011 14:46 KoTakUEurO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:44 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I really hope tgun beats Maru, come on, man. i really want to cheer for tgun, but i have a soft spot for the young players w/ potential (Creator, Dream too) tgun is young. He's young and beautiful (no homo). handsome zerg
sunflower zerg
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On August 03 2011 14:47 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:46 KoTakUEurO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:44 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I really hope tgun beats Maru, come on, man. i really want to cheer for tgun, but i have a soft spot for the young players w/ potential (Creator, Dream too) tgun is young.
oh
so now its Kid JD vs Kid Flash
my heart is torn T.T
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On August 03 2011 14:48 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:44 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:35 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:27 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:26 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:24 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:22 bennyaus wrote:
[quote]
or the 3gate/stargate.
I've seen the 6gate and 3gate/stargate held off with plenty more frequency than Terran's 1-1-1. I believe MMA held off Naniwa's 3gate/stargate just by massing marines. Do you think MMA & Naniwa are the same level? True. But look at my post, I added more. And that many marines simply denies the Void Rays, so even looking at Naniwa making micro errors, MMA never felt like he was going to just be overwhelmingly overrun like many Protosses look like against 1-1-1. I've actually never seen a 6 or 7 gate fail in a progame. Or nearly never. Its a really strong allin. I agree that the 1-1-1 is insanely hard to hold if, if not nearly impossible. But I do think most Protoss react wrong to it. You need the robo only for 1 observer and after you need 5 gateways to warp in mass stalker. Try to get as much time as possible and pull your probes if he engages. You need them. Every 40damage on a probe is no 40damage on a stalker. 6/7 gates have failed before. Off the top of my head, Sage failed one against PuMa in the iCCup weekly a week or so ago, and just GG'd when it was held off. My question to you is, if the 6gate is as powerful as 1-1-1, why don't we see it being used more to great effect? I've seen anyPro, Tassadar, Inca, MC, HuK, Puzzle, and Vines all fall to it recently. Why aren't Protosses doing the same thing to Terrans and winning tons of games against powerful Terran opponents? I'm just not seeing it nearly as often as 1-1-1 lately, so I'm confused as to why it's not used more often. Obviously, all these players want to win, so I don't see why they wouldn't use it more (as often as T 1-1-1's Protoss) if it's as strong as you say... I think because a) it is defendable even if its really hard and b) if Protoss wants information on what Terran is doing. The thing is, you have to 1 gate expand to do a really hard 6 gate push and lots of Terrans punish the 1 gate expand with the 1-1-1 allin or semi-allin. Maybe its because the Protoss players do like their alternatives with mid or lategame, I don't know. Yeah, so the 1-1-1 kind of counters the 6gate, no? In other words, the Protoss all-in that you say is as hard to hold off as the 1-1-1 all-in is actually countered by the 1-1-1 all-in. You are talking like the 1-1-1 is undefendable. Its really hard, but you can defend it. It might be a bit too strong, but I'd say an allin should be insanely hard to defend, but not impossible. The thing is that you don't know if its allin or not. The earliest time you KNOW its this allin, you might already have made the wrong decision or wrong tech. You can only assume its coming and if you assume it from the start you can defend it pretty well. I'm sorry if I was talking as if the 1-1-1 is undefendable, because I definitely don't believe that. I'm just saying that it's a bit depressing that Protoss's 1-1-1 equivalent in strength is countered by Terran's 1-1-1. I've seen 1-1-1 held off on a few occasions, (MMA vs. HuK, Ryung vs. MC), but both games, they made some pretty critical errors in execution (I think MMA forgot siege mode, and Ryung just played way too passive). Perhaps if you could PM me a replay or link me to a game where someone holds off a perfectly executed 1-1-1, I'd find it very educational.
I don't have a replay, but next time you face a wall-off Terran build and assume its the 1-1-1 allin try to 1 gate expand and follow it up with 3 gates and a robo (robo for observer) later add another gate so you have 5 in total. Do not add immortals. Immortals will be dumb and not kill the tanks and just die to marines, warp in as many stalkers as you can and a few sentries for guardian shield.
Pull probes and try to use the splash of the tanks against the Terran. Thats (at least for me) the hardest style of Protoss to beat even with 1-1-1. Anyways, lets watch GSL CodeA qualification :-)
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i am feeling so sad and frustrated, why 1gate expo when this kind of all-in is so ridiculous...
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Caramal is kind of doing what I suggested... but he's making an immortal instead of an observer-_-
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I love Code B for the last game. Ganzi should have died or been crippled by that warp prism 4 gate. Caramel should have had an observer almost at the same time cloak finished. The result? Ganzi holds with minimal losses, and Caramel makes an immortal instead of an observer. Awesome!
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theeeree it gooeessss 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
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On August 03 2011 14:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 14:48 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:44 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:35 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:31 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:27 HolyArrow wrote:On August 03 2011 14:26 mTw|NarutO wrote:On August 03 2011 14:24 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
I've seen the 6gate and 3gate/stargate held off with plenty more frequency than Terran's 1-1-1. I believe MMA held off Naniwa's 3gate/stargate just by massing marines. Do you think MMA & Naniwa are the same level? True. But look at my post, I added more. And that many marines simply denies the Void Rays, so even looking at Naniwa making micro errors, MMA never felt like he was going to just be overwhelmingly overrun like many Protosses look like against 1-1-1. I've actually never seen a 6 or 7 gate fail in a progame. Or nearly never. Its a really strong allin. I agree that the 1-1-1 is insanely hard to hold if, if not nearly impossible. But I do think most Protoss react wrong to it. You need the robo only for 1 observer and after you need 5 gateways to warp in mass stalker. Try to get as much time as possible and pull your probes if he engages. You need them. Every 40damage on a probe is no 40damage on a stalker. 6/7 gates have failed before. Off the top of my head, Sage failed one against PuMa in the iCCup weekly a week or so ago, and just GG'd when it was held off. My question to you is, if the 6gate is as powerful as 1-1-1, why don't we see it being used more to great effect? I've seen anyPro, Tassadar, Inca, MC, HuK, Puzzle, and Vines all fall to it recently. Why aren't Protosses doing the same thing to Terrans and winning tons of games against powerful Terran opponents? I'm just not seeing it nearly as often as 1-1-1 lately, so I'm confused as to why it's not used more often. Obviously, all these players want to win, so I don't see why they wouldn't use it more (as often as T 1-1-1's Protoss) if it's as strong as you say... I think because a) it is defendable even if its really hard and b) if Protoss wants information on what Terran is doing. The thing is, you have to 1 gate expand to do a really hard 6 gate push and lots of Terrans punish the 1 gate expand with the 1-1-1 allin or semi-allin. Maybe its because the Protoss players do like their alternatives with mid or lategame, I don't know. Yeah, so the 1-1-1 kind of counters the 6gate, no? In other words, the Protoss all-in that you say is as hard to hold off as the 1-1-1 all-in is actually countered by the 1-1-1 all-in. You are talking like the 1-1-1 is undefendable. Its really hard, but you can defend it. It might be a bit too strong, but I'd say an allin should be insanely hard to defend, but not impossible. The thing is that you don't know if its allin or not. The earliest time you KNOW its this allin, you might already have made the wrong decision or wrong tech. You can only assume its coming and if you assume it from the start you can defend it pretty well. I'm sorry if I was talking as if the 1-1-1 is undefendable, because I definitely don't believe that. I'm just saying that it's a bit depressing that Protoss's 1-1-1 equivalent in strength is countered by Terran's 1-1-1. I've seen 1-1-1 held off on a few occasions, (MMA vs. HuK, Ryung vs. MC), but both games, they made some pretty critical errors in execution (I think MMA forgot siege mode, and Ryung just played way too passive). Perhaps if you could PM me a replay or link me to a game where someone holds off a perfectly executed 1-1-1, I'd find it very educational. I don't have a replay, but next time you face a wall-off Terran build and assume its the 1-1-1 allin try to 1 gate expand and follow it up with 3 gates and a robo (robo for observer) later add another gate so you have 5 in total. Do not add immortals. Immortals will be dumb and not kill the tanks and just die to marines, warp in as many stalkers as you can and a few sentries for guardian shield. Pull probes and try to use the splash of the tanks against the Terran. Thats (at least for me) the hardest style of Protoss to beat even with 1-1-1. Anyways, lets watch GSL CodeA qualification :-)
Ok, thanks for the advice!
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EPT
