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Alright, its truly time to stop whining. Stop caster bashing also. Be warned. |
On July 31 2011 05:26 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 brutality wrote:On July 31 2011 05:19 Talin wrote:On July 31 2011 05:18 Whole wrote:
Why are people calling a DT expand cheese? Because it wasn't a DT expand. It kindof was lol Choya didn't need much of an army b/c he scouted gasless expand. If Jinro would have thrown down 3 more barracks and pulled all scv's then it would have been a successful mindgame cheese. So all Choya's build was was a greedy expand into harrass b/c he took a good guess what Jinro was doing. The point is that Jinro could have had Turrets up in time with his build, which makes choya's choice all in and cheese (because he had no way of knowing whether Jinro will be safe or not).
If Jinro throws down 3 more rax and pulls SCVs Choya has a DT for the main and DTs to harass that marine/SCV all in. Only 1 scan cause no expansion and Choya either wins or Jinro pulls back to a turret, game stabilizes and Choya is 1 base up.
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Incontrol loses and writes an essay as a gg statement for Boxer
buy your HQ passes so that you can read incontrol expressing how much respect he has for his opponent at the end of the game
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On July 31 2011 05:26 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:25 Irave wrote:On July 31 2011 05:24 adeptz wrote:
Calling it here first.
Incontrol loses and writes an essay as a gg statement for Boxer. He loves Boxer as much as a lot of people on this site. hes does that against every korean at live events
He does that against everyone at Live events. He is the Manner Bear
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On July 31 2011 05:26 b_unnies wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:23 Azarkon wrote:
DT expand is pretty cheesy, but it's not an all-in.
From the looks of it, Jinro was going for a fast ghost timing build. That's why he didn't have an engineering bay. the 9 minute 2 ghost attack has a +1 weapons
Some players move out after starting +1 but it usually doesn't have the +1 weapons when the push hits. Also there's variations of the build.
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On July 31 2011 05:27 Hybris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 adeptz wrote:
Calling it here first.
Incontrol loses and writes an essay as a gg statement for Boxer. ROFL. My thoughts exactly. Love how he smiles and looks pretty for the camera... So hypocritical
Are you telling me you wouldn't if you got to play against Boxer?
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What is this shit? It was 1-1 choya jinro, then they said we'll be right back. The stream goes black, apparently they turn it offline and you have to refresh the page to start it back up again?? Is the series already over or what?
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*Sigh*, non-protoss players everywhere feel Jinro's pain. Stupid DTs.
On July 31 2011 05:24 mikyaJ wrote:
If Jinro had beaten Choya with a Banshee FE because Choya had no detection due to not scouting it, people would be fine. So biased, it's pathetic really, and I hate Protoss.
Cloaked banshees are nowhere comparable to DTs.
DTs have unlimited cloak, banshees do not.
DTs start with cloak, banshees need them researched.
DTs kill workers in one shot, banshees in two.
DTs are produced by the very beginning production building, making higher number production [like 3 at once to split everywhere] far easier than starport production of banshees.
I'm not saying anything about overall game balance, but it's just absurd to put banshees on the same level.
User was warned for this post
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On July 31 2011 05:27 Hybris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 adeptz wrote:
Calling it here first.
Incontrol loses and writes an essay as a gg statement for Boxer. ROFL. My thoughts exactly. Love how he smiles and looks pretty for the camera... So hypocritical
Haha, yes i have a feeling too. He always "tries" to be nice.
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On July 31 2011 05:25 Pengu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:23 Andamanen wrote:
If Alicia wins the next few rounds in the Losers bracket and hits ToD again, it will be an extended series, right? Correct  Should start at the same score as last time, I think it was 2:0 in MTod's favour.
Kind of sad to see them potentially meet again this soon, but it will make for an epic Alicia comeback. 
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On July 31 2011 05:25 Lorizean wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:22 The Final Boss wrote:On July 31 2011 05:16 Topdoller wrote:
Punished for being to greedy, i dont why Terrans blow all the CC energy on mules so early when they are vulnerable to DT rush Terran needs MULES early game. If a Terran player isn't MULing properly and a good Gateway Timing push comes, they'll lose the game. You can say that Jinro lost because he was greedy or didn't scout enough, but what it comes down to is that Dark Templar are the stupidest thing in the game. They give free wins to Protoss players who don't deserve them, such as Choya over Jinro. Or how about Puzzle beating MMA. Puzzle would have lost first round were it not for the stupidity of a unit that instantly wins you the game (anybody who didn't watch those, basically Puzzle DT rushed two games in a row, MMA forgot Missile Turrets, and later in the game despite MMA microing far better and outplaying Puzzle, he was too far behind. Basic recap of those games: Game 1: Jinro plays far better than Choya and wins with great play and NUKES!!! Game 2: Choya abuses Metalopolis and wins because of a map imbalance and cheesy play. Game 3: Dark Templar. Only one of those games is worth watching, I bet you can all guess which one it is. wait what ... you are saying that it's the DTs fault that MMA forgot missile turrets? There are a ton of things in this game that can make you lose outright if you aren't prepared for it. That's why you scout. Sometimes you take risks and it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. But you can't complain that taking risks (like not scouting the opponents tech path & not preparing for the eventualities) is actually, you know... risky.
Game 1: Jinro didn't play that well tbh. He did nice drops, but his m&m control was quite bad tbh. He landed double nukes which won him the game. That however was both bad and strange by Choya. G2 he didn't get abused as much as he did bad decisions. Walling off his ramp = bad, finishing cloak = bad, Losing viking = bad... And so forth.
Game 3: He was greedy, Choya got lucky and he won. I wouldn't say that Jinro played that much better than Choya, if at all.
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On July 31 2011 05:24 Zinthar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:21 Hybris wrote:
No... it wasn't all in. How would Jinro have pushed across the map if he had no scans. It would have taken him at least 3 scans to get across the map and even more than that to kill the nexus... Totally impossible to save that many without getting behing. The DT's aren't free -- you trade 125/125 to make your opponent lose 270 minerals, which isn't exactly a favorable trade for Protoss. If you can get a marine kill on the way then maybe that tilts the balance into your favor, but you still had to build that expensive Dark Shrine in the first place, so it's probably still not worth it. DT's are only cost effective if you get free kills with them.
Your scope is far too limited. A terran now has to scan his way to your base in order to do any kind of push unless he waits to get a tech lab on a starport and produce an expensive raven. This all takes time and gives you map control. Means you can cut corner to get stuff since you know he has to bypass the DTs by air or waste tons of scans which will slow him down a lot.
Things don't have to kill something to be worthwhile. Broaden your thinking.
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On July 31 2011 05:26 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 brutality wrote:On July 31 2011 05:19 Talin wrote:On July 31 2011 05:18 Whole wrote:
Why are people calling a DT expand cheese? Because it wasn't a DT expand. It kindof was lol Choya didn't need much of an army b/c he scouted gasless expand. If Jinro would have thrown down 3 more barracks and pulled all scv's then it would have been a successful mindgame cheese. So all Choya's build was was a greedy expand into harrass b/c he took a good guess what Jinro was doing. The point is that Jinro could have had Turrets up in time with his build, which makes choya's choice all in and cheese (because he had no way of knowing whether Jinro will be safe or not).
But Choya was safe b/c he had an expo, tech, and gateways building. Jinro had rax but no upgrades. It's not a cheese LOL
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On July 31 2011 05:26 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:25 Ryuu2 wrote:On July 31 2011 05:22 Fionn wrote:
Still don't know how that was cheese or an all-in.
If the DT's failed? A setback for Choya, but he could transition into a very normal game. Jinro just played that wrong. Stop bashing Choya for something Jinro should have scouted/been prepared for. The reason why Choyas build sucks: Its fucking unsafe. He would've died to ANYTHING except for what jinro ended up doing. Choya just threw a dice and he got extremely lucky and won. LOL please go play the game. NO ENGY BAY NO SCANS is safe?! Jinro played extremely risky and greedy and payed for it. He didnt even scout it.
Choyas build would've died to: 2rax pressure, 3rax, 4rax allin (obv), cloaked banshees etc. Choya PRAYED that jinro wouldn't do any of that and won.
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It's funny how the first game in Rain vs Oz is an exact copy of game 2 Jinro Choya.
Banshees vs Voids.
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Jinro saw no sentry in the beginning and could have assumed that some other gas intensive stuff is going on. 1 stargate phoenix or some sort of twilight tech. But it seems like he just didn't and continued to build M&M. You can argue it was a bit unlucky that half a second after he muled (he saw dts immediately after and reacted) dts ran in, but thats how the game works.
Choya took a risk and it payed off, stop the hate. GGs. I'm no Choya fanboy and I like Jinro but I can see a difference between a cheesy player and a small risk or mistake by another one.
Hope to see more good games.
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On July 31 2011 05:22 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:16 Topdoller wrote:
Punished for being to greedy, i dont why Terrans blow all the CC energy on mules so early when they are vulnerable to DT rush Terran needs MULES early game. If a Terran player isn't MULing properly and a good Gateway Timing push comes, they'll lose the game. You can say that Jinro lost because he was greedy or didn't scout enough, but what it comes down to is that Dark Templar are the stupidest thing in the game. They give free wins to Protoss players who don't deserve them, such as Choya over Jinro. Or how about Puzzle beating MMA. Puzzle would have lost first round were it not for the stupidity of a unit that instantly wins you the game (anybody who didn't watch those, basically Puzzle DT rushed two games in a row, MMA forgot Missile Turrets, and later in the game despite MMA microing far better and outplaying Puzzle, he was too far behind. Basic recap of those games: Game 1: Jinro plays far better than Choya and wins with great play and NUKES!!! Game 2: Choya abuses Metalopolis and wins because of a map imbalance and cheesy play. Game 3: Dark Templar. Only one of those games is worth watching, I bet you can all guess which one it is.
DTs are no different than cloaked banshees, you can call it a build order lose, but all the same, if you are playing an opponent who is known for this sort of tactic then you have no one to blame but yourself
Jinro is fantastic player and he plays the game the "right way", but sometimes he is frustrating to watch cause he keeps dying to what most people meet in gold\plat division. His late game is fantastic to watch if he makes it that far
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On July 31 2011 05:26 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 mango_destroyer wrote:
if jinro won with cloaked banshees cuz Choya didnt make cannons or robo would people be calling it cheese or Choya a noob? I`m leaning torwards the latter. lol that's exactly what I said Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 05:24 mikyaJ wrote:
If Jinro had beaten Choya with a Banshee FE because Choya had no detection due to not scouting it, people would be fine. So biased, it's pathetic really, and I hate Protoss.
I would be saying the same thing...
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"Markyo was here" @ the sign lol, that's one of Day9's mods 
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DTs are not instant GG. Jinro GGed because there was a DT at each mineral line, and 1 hidden to the side. He had no scans, and was 10 energy away from his first scan... 50 from the second. It would take even longer to get the ebay and turrets up, assuming the DTs weren't used to delay those as well.
There was no way for Jinro to win that game.
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Oh yeah! Chilltoss needs to take him out! O_O Choya can't be the liquid killer! >o<
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EPT
