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On July 12 2011 04:27 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions. I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers. In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league. If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter. In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat).
Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
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On July 12 2011 15:17 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:27 Azarkon wrote:On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions. I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers. In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league. If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter. In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games. Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat). Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
I like your analogy! But, as a swede, I have to put in a protest. :-) Canada hasn't been dominating the Olympic hockey since the 1950s - swedish success has since that time been very similar. This is very surprising though, as Canada clearly is the dominating hockey nation in the world.
Personnaly I definitely want tournaments with the best players (well, Koreans), but I also want to be able to cheer for local talents, swedes or europeans.
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On July 12 2011 08:45 Kala23 wrote:
I also wouldn't mind 14 Koreans in the next top 16. Just make sure to get the best players.
Just compare the round of 16 games, most of which where terribly onesided, with the later rounds.
Exactly. The best, closest games at Dreamhack/MLG/NASL were mostly Korean vs Korean.
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On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote:
As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours.
I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in!
Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament.
I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem.
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"North American" Starleague that is......
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Nvm waiting for future seasons to buy a ticket, this player pool looks totally awesome!
I didn't buy the ticket for the first season because in my opinion there were plenty of players in there that didn't belong in there, but this reason does not hold now. Let the games begin!
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On July 12 2011 13:09 heatly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:06 godemperor wrote:On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play? tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities. How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
Idra first has to make it to a final vs a korean, which I don't see happening.
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i'm not sure there would have been any less viewers of the NASL final if it would have been, let's say, HUK vs Idra, or any two highly rated non koreans.
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Are there any plans to release Season 1's Replays in a pack ala IPL?
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On July 12 2011 17:01 Guiness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote:
As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours. I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in! Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament. I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem.
Just wanted to confirm that you pretty much NAILED our thoughts before the season started. We had no idea that the winner of the Open Qualifier would stand a chance to win the Finals. We talked about it and said to ourselves, "Nah, that won't happen."
Since it did, we're re-thinking that strategy now.
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On July 13 2011 09:49 OCsurfeR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 17:01 Guiness wrote:On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote:
As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours. I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in! Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament. I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem. Just wanted to confirm that you pretty much NAILED our thoughts before the season started. We had no idea that the winner of the Open Qualifier would stand a chance to win the Finals. We talked about it and said to ourselves, "Nah, that won't happen." Since it did, we're re-thinking that strategy now.
No don't! Think about my storiessss.
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If it's the NORTH AMERICAN StarLeague...
why is there more players for "Team Korea" then any other "team"?
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On July 13 2011 10:41 Kolvacs wrote:
If it's the NORTH AMERICAN StarLeague...
why is there more players for "Team Korea" then any other "team"?
Because the league is not going to exclude better players on the basis that others can not compete at there level.
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On July 13 2011 10:47 AwfulPlayer wrote:
too many koreans.
Yeah, I agree.
I guess foreign players should step it up.
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On July 12 2011 08:16 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:27 Azarkon wrote:On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions. I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers. In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league. If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter. In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games. I disagree, this isn't like the olympics, if you want that, that's what the World Cyber Games are for. It would be unfair to not let better players compete simply because of their nationality, it's Global in the sense than anyone can compete, it's not the job of the NASL to make sure that everyone can compete at the top level. They still get to play in the qualifiers and open brackets, it's still global in the sense that everyone can participate, if they get to league divisional play, they should do so based on their skill as a player, not based on their nationality.
It's up to NASL whether they want to be WCG or GSL.
I'd also like to point out that it's not just the WCG, either, that tries to limit participation. Dreamhack, IEM, and Homestory are all similar in the way they draw up their players list (ie mostly Europeans sprinkled with a few Koreans).
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On July 13 2011 10:41 Kolvacs wrote:
If it's the NORTH AMERICAN StarLeague...
why is there more players for "Team Korea" then any other "team"?
If you read the entire thread, you will see this has been addressed several times.
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On July 12 2011 15:54 sodapop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 15:17 TheDougler wrote:On July 12 2011 04:27 Azarkon wrote:On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions. I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers. In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league. If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter. In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games. Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat). Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome. I like your analogy! But, as a swede, I have to put in a protest. :-) Canada hasn't been dominating the Olympic hockey since the 1950s - swedish success has since that time been very similar. This is very surprising though, as Canada clearly is the dominating hockey nation in the world. Personnaly I definitely want tournaments with the best players (well, Koreans), but I also want to be able to cheer for local talents, swedes or europeans.
It's because, until 1998, the NHL didn't allow it's players to participate in the olympics (they wouldn't stop the season just for the olympics). And yes, while I realize nowadays the best players from every country are playing in the NHL (so it wouldn't matter if that rule existed now), back in the 70s/80s etc. the NHL was pretty much just Canadian/American. Really hurt Canada's chances of winning anything at the olympics/internationally.
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Well in 95 that's when they lifted the ban on NHL players, and also...didn't Canada just win this past Olympic hockey?
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EPT
