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On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
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On July 12 2011 04:15 Micket wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
i feel as though foreign terran need more prongs to their attacks...
lol joking aside, i completely agree. watching the top level koreans, everything is so finite, so crisp, it's amazing!
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MKP, SC, and TOP. some of the best Terrans in the world, cannot WAIT.
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On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
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I said it before and I'll say it again. If you're not watching SC2 to watch the best games between the best players, why are you watching anyways?
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On July 11 2011 11:32 Scribble wrote:
Given how many players are going to be playing from SK, I hope they get to play on the Korean server instead of having, for instance, MarineKing vs Clide on NA.
I'm pretty sure that, because they cast the games live instead of casting off of replays, that playing conditions for Koreans will continue to suck...
Either they play on the NA server and deal with the lag, or the commentators/observers play on the SK server and cause lag spikes, as well... Either way, pretty shite for them, tbh, but doesn't seem to be a problem for them.
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I'm pretty sad that sixjaxMajor is not in this tournament. NA needs more capable players.
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On July 12 2011 04:27 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions. I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers. In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league. If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter. In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
I disagree, this isn't like the olympics, if you want that, that's what the World Cyber Games are for. It would be unfair to not let better players compete simply because of their nationality, it's Global in the sense than anyone can compete, it's not the job of the NASL to make sure that everyone can compete at the top level. They still get to play in the qualifiers and open brackets, it's still global in the sense that everyone can participate, if they get to league divisional play, they should do so based on their skill as a player, not based on their nationality.
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I also wouldn't mind 14 Koreans in the next top 16. Just make sure to get the best players.
Just compare the round of 16 games, most of which where terribly onesided, with the later rounds.
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On July 12 2011 04:15 Micket wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote:
Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL? Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
I'd like to see a mix. If i want to see the best, i can watch the gsl. But i'm also interested and want to support north american players as well, so i'd like to watch a non korean tournament as well. and sometime it's good to see a mix, like the nasl was.
For me it's not a matter of having to watch the top 10 or whatever players in the world, but about wanting to support talent that's over in NA.
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This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
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qxc for nasl season 3 champion!
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North American Star League doesnt imply the players are all from north america.
It just means the host, cast, and event is held there. I don't see why people are upset with the name. Its not called North American Player League.
The U.S Open(Tennis) has like up 10 Americans in the field... should they change their name? No
When it is an international pro scene, there will be diversity of the top players.
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On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
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On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
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On July 12 2011 13:06 godemperor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play? tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
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On July 12 2011 04:33 seoul_kiM wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again. If you're not watching SC2 to watch the best games between the best players, why are you watching anyways?
That's only one reason among many that one might watch an SC2 game.
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On July 12 2011 13:09 heatly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:06 godemperor wrote:On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play? tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities. How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
No man people want to watch the best players. IS FLASH or JAEDONG freaking anything other than Korean? Hell no, and broodwar people still watch them
Watching people who perform not up to PAR with Koreans at all (many in NASL season 1) was the reason why I skipped 90% of the matches and only watched the ones that I was interested in.
Sure some players have so-called "unique" builds, but does that stand up to Korean GSL-par tournament play? I really don't think so...
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On July 12 2011 13:09 heatly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:06 godemperor wrote:On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play? tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities. How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
Regardless of what you guys want to see, the sanctity of competition is more important in every regard, the better players should succeed and not be penalized or restricted based on their nationality.
This isn't the Olympics, this isn't WCG, players aren't competing for their nation, they're competing for themselves, to prove who the best player is, not which nation has the best players.
I don't see how it is relevant what MC vs IdrA would have pulled in for viewership, say IdrA gets knocked out in the Ro16, should they give him another chance in the competition to get more viewers? No, because the competition should always come first. Telling Polt or MarineKing or TOP or ScFOU or anyone that they can't play because while they're better than the current competitors, there are too many good Koreans would be absolute bullshit.
I want to see my own favorite players in the finals, but they should earn it on their own merit and until they do, the best players should dominate.
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On July 12 2011 14:00 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:09 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 13:06 godemperor wrote:On July 12 2011 13:00 heatly wrote:On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote:
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl. I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play? tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities. How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people. Regardless of what you guys want to see, the sanctity of competition is more important in every regard, the better players should succeed and not be penalized or restricted based on their nationality. This isn't the Olympics, this isn't WCG, players aren't competing for their nation, they're competing for themselves, to prove who the best player is, not which nation has the best players. I don't see how it is relevant what MC vs IdrA would have pulled in for viewership, say IdrA gets knocked out in the Ro16, should they give him another chance in the competition to get more viewers? No, because the competition should always come first. Telling Polt or MarineKing or TOP or ScFOU or anyone that they can't play because while they're better than the current competitors, there are too many good Koreans would be absolute bullshit. I want to see my own favorite players in the finals, but they should earn it on their own merit and until they do, the best players should dominate.
At no point did I say that any player should get excluded or a player should get certain privileges just because they are from NA, EU or whatever. All I was getting at is A LOT of people cheer for teams/players that are from their region that is not only in SC but in most sports.
My favorite player is Tyler is he the best player in the world of course not but I like him because he's NA and I can relate to him having a family and being a gamer. To assume everyone loves to watch MC, Nestea and MVP every game because they are the "best" or close to it is just wrong. There's more to fandom then just how well someone plays the game.
If everyone rooted for the team or player at the top of the division that wouldn't be much fun would it, that goes for every sport and that's called "jumping on the band wagon."
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EPT
