BUT if necessary, the following runner-up "standby" players from the Season 2 Qualifiers will be replacing withdrawing Season 1 Players: Optimus Vines Moonan Check
On July 11 2011 10:11 red4ce wrote: Expect the season 2 open qualifier to be littered with Koreans after they saw Puma sweep in and leave with a cool 50 grand.
You're saying that the season 1 open qualifier wasn't?
On July 11 2011 10:23 Chriscras wrote: So according to liquidpedia only 8 players from the open bracket are seeded into Season 2. However, 16 players from last season were eliminated.
Therefore, does anyone know where the other 8 players come from???
There was one open tournament for a spot in the finals + spots in next season and one open qualifier only for spots in next season. 8+8=16
On July 11 2011 10:23 Chriscras wrote: So according to liquidpedia only 8 players from the open bracket are seeded into Season 2. However, 16 players from last season were eliminated.
Therefore, does anyone know where the other 8 players come from???
There were 2 tournaments to qualify for season 2. One was open to everyone excluding those eliminated from season 1 and the other included those eliminated from season 1. The former I believe was won by Puma so he got to go to the finals.
Note: Moonglade, Tyler and/or Rainbow may replace Naniwa, TLO and/or Stalife if any of them decide not to partcipate in Season 2.
Edit: Stalife confirmed his withdrawal below ---->
2nd Edit: NVM apparently none of these players will serve as replacements, Season 2 only has 45 players and the runners up in the open qualifier are the standbys...
On July 11 2011 10:11 red4ce wrote: Expect the season 2 open qualifier to be littered with Koreans after they saw Puma sweep in and leave with a cool 50 grand.
You're saying that the season 1 open qualifier wasn't?
Sorry if I was ambiguous I was referring to the Open tournament portion through which Puma and Alive qualified for the grand finals. For season 1 a handful of players from TSL were the only Koreans who signed up. I expect next season's to have at least several Koreans.
On July 11 2011 10:11 red4ce wrote: Expect the season 2 open qualifier to be littered with Koreans after they saw Puma sweep in and leave with a cool 50 grand.
You're saying that the season 1 open qualifier wasn't?
Sorry if I was ambiguous I was referring to the Open tournament portion through which Puma and Alive qualified for the grand finals. For season 1 a handful of players from TSL were the only Koreans who signed up. I expect next season's to have at least several dozen of them.
You are so wrong dude, I just compiled the complete list of players for next season and the only players to qualify from the open tournaments who do not play for Korean teams are Thorzain, Lowley and Nightend
On July 11 2011 10:11 red4ce wrote: Expect the season 2 open qualifier to be littered with Koreans after they saw Puma sweep in and leave with a cool 50 grand.
You're saying that the season 1 open qualifier wasn't?
Sorry if I was ambiguous I was referring to the Open tournament portion through which Puma and Alive qualified for the grand finals. For season 1 a handful of players from TSL were the only Koreans who signed up. I expect next season's to have at least several dozen of them.
You are so wrong dude, I just compiled the complete list of players for next season and the only players to qualify from the open tournaments who do not play for Korean teams are Thorzain, Moonan, Lowley and Nightend
??? Are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about an event that hasn't happened yet. Assuming season 2 is the same format from season 1 then 15 players will qualify for the grand finals from the group stages, and 1 player will make the grand finals through an Open Tournament the same way Puma did this season. For season 1 the only Koreans I saw who even attempted were Puma, Alive, Clide, Revival, and Rain. I assume for Season 2 we will see many players from Slayers, Prime, ST, etc to participate.
Note: Moonglade, Tyler and/or Rainbow may replace Naniwa, TLO and/or Stalife if any of them decide not to partcipate in Season 2.
Edit: Stalife confirmed his withdrawal below ---->
Thx yo! Really sad for Grubby His play is really a lot better than those results show, just look at his games towards the end of the season going toe to toe with the highest ranked player in his division. He'll probably come back and win NASL 3 tho so it's okay.
Note: Moonglade, Tyler and/or Rainbow may replace Naniwa, TLO and/or Stalife if any of them decide not to partcipate in Season 2.
Edit: Stalife confirmed his withdrawal below ---->
AFAIK the players who were 5-8th in the NASL Season 2 Qualifier are listed as "standbys" for Season 2. Therefore they would be the first players called up to replace players withdrawing, rather than the washouts of Season 1.
Wait, in the season 2 qualifier tournament only top 4 qualified for season 2, because they changed the season 2 format from 50 to 45 players. So moonan, polt, vines and check placing 5-8th aren't in, they're only on "standby", whatever that means exactly.
On July 11 2011 10:51 SafeAsCheese wrote: Is there any system to which players will be placed into groups next time?
Or is it all just random draws?
Would suck if there was a group with like MC/Sen/IdrA/Squirtle/Another korean. (unlikely, but possible)
It isn't random. Season 1 groups were purposefully made to have racial balance (ex 4z+3t+3p) and regional balance (ex. 2 Koreans per group). I don't know if they'll do that again though.
On July 11 2011 10:55 pusmoh wrote: Wait, in the season 2 qualifier tournament only top 4 qualified for season 2, because they changed the season 2 format from 50 to 45 players. So moonan, polt, vines and check placing 5-8th aren't in, they're only on "standby", whatever that means exactly.
On July 11 2011 10:55 pusmoh wrote: Wait, in the season 2 qualifier tournament only top 4 qualified for season 2, because they changed the season 2 format from 50 to 45 players. So moonan, polt, vines and check placing 5-8th aren't in, they're only on "standby", whatever that means exactly.
Is it confirmed Season 2 is only 45 players?
Xeris said so in the qualifier thread, so I would say yes.
On July 11 2011 10:51 SafeAsCheese wrote: Is there any system to which players will be placed into groups next time?
Or is it all just random draws?
Would suck if there was a group with like MC/Sen/IdrA/Squirtle/Another korean. (unlikely, but possible)
It isn't random. Season 1 groups were purposefully made to have racial balance (ex 4z+3t+3p) and regional balance (ex. 2 Koreans per group). I don't know if they'll do that again though.
They also stated that they put players based on history together. IE. Moon and Grubby, Idra and Boxer etc.
I also guess one of the standby players might replace Stalife rather than best dropout from last season, as there would be no point of having them on a standby list otherwise
On July 11 2011 11:11 kochujang wrote: Hero played in the Season 2 Qualifier Semi-finals, so he should be on the confirmed list.
Well because the league shrank from 50-45, one of the semi-finalist did not auto-qualify for season 2. Did Marineking and Hero play a runner-up match that Hero lost?
I am going off what one of the earlier posters said, unless someone else has better information.
I'm just sad we are going to have less games each week
No, all the semifinalists qualified. The 5 person drop was accounting for Naniwa leaving as well.
On July 11 2011 11:11 kochujang wrote: Hero played in the Season 2 Qualifier Semi-finals, so he should be on the confirmed list.
Well because the league shrank from 50-45, one of the semi-finalist did not auto-qualify for season 2. Did Marineking and Hero play a runner-up match that Hero lost?
I am going off what one of the earlier posters said, unless someone else has better information.
I'm just sad we are going to have less games each week
You forgot that Naniwa dropping out makes room for Hero. Liquipedia has no result on Hero vs Vines but shows Hero advancing to top 4
Wow, that 45 man line-up for next season is just insane. This thing is going to be awesome next season, the potential matchups we'll see week after week are going to be great.
On July 11 2011 11:11 kochujang wrote: Hero played in the Season 2 Qualifier Semi-finals, so he should be on the confirmed list.
Well because the league shrank from 50-45, one of the semi-finalist did not auto-qualify for season 2. Did Marineking and Hero play a runner-up match that Hero lost?
I am going off what one of the earlier posters said, unless someone else has better information.
I'm just sad we are going to have less games each week
You forgot that Naniwa dropping out makes room for Hero. Liquipedia has no result on Hero vs Vines but shows Hero advancing to top 4
Hero won 2-0, I watched the game casted by Khaldor
On July 11 2011 11:24 lbmaian wrote: Koreans are invading indeed...
You could call it an invasian =P
Given how many players are going to be playing from SK, I hope they get to play on the Korean server instead of having, for instance, MarineKing vs Clide on NA.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
Yeah, not the biggest fan of the name, but oh well. When all is said and done it's a trivial issue.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
If there is something other sports leagues have taught us, it has everything to do with the location and not so much with the nationality of the players.
Please edit the main post. Naniwa isn't playing in the league next season because he doesn't want to NOT because of his bm about the league. That is a huge difference and makes NASL look like huge dicks.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
GSL still calls itself GSL.
GSL is more appropriate because it's pretty much indisputable that its champions are the best players in the world.
On July 11 2011 11:31 Chriscras wrote: 45 players = 8 weeks of games = 1 less weeks of games
I think that's better to be honest, the league play isn't that integral with the existence of the open bracket as we saw with Puma. I think it's fine to have it shortened to get to the grand finals faster.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
Yeah, not the biggest fan of the name, but oh well. When all is said and done it's a trivial issue.
If the North American BNet ladder was dominated by Koreans would you not want to call it the NA ladder anymore?
On July 11 2011 11:35 chadissilent wrote: 10 North Americans out of 45 players in the North American StarLeague. Awesome.
Yes. Exactly. It's really ridiculous. I do agree players from other continents should participate, but the imbalance here is just too wide.
That's coz NA players suck in general. I don't know why, to be honest.
less infrastructure is what it boils down to imo. Pro gaming is accepted more in Korea and Europe and is developed better. NA is just behind. I think NA's top players are just as good as EU's top players, but their are just fewer of them.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
GSL still calls itself GSL.
THIS. How many foreigners are in the GSL now? Huk, Sheth, Jinro.....?
Seriously, who cares what the name is? Fact is, we get to see great players and awesome starcraft games broadcast at prime time in NA.
Does anyone know if DRG played in the qualifier? He is the Korean that I most want to see in foreigner tournaments but he doesn't seem to be in any, I hope that changes quick, I love DRG.
Did sixjaxMajor try and qualify for this and fail? Or did he just not try to qualify? He'd be a decent addition, and he's also technically from North America. Not sure if he has the chops, but that MLG run of his wasn't half bad.
On July 11 2011 11:35 chadissilent wrote: 10 North Americans out of 45 players in the North American StarLeague. Awesome.
Yes. Exactly. It's really ridiculous. I do agree players from other continents should participate, but the imbalance here is just too wide.
They invited a lot of foreign and North American players for the first season, however all the open qualifier were dominated by Koreans and only one Korean fell out of the original invited players. I'm completely opposed to the NASL limiting the number of players that are able to earn their way into the league so there's really nothing to be done apart from North Americans stepping up and competing.
On July 11 2011 12:00 Xivsa wrote: Did sixjaxMajor try and qualify for this and fail? Or did he just not try to qualify? He'd be a decent addition, and he's also technically from North America. Not sure if he has the chops, but that MLG run of his wasn't half bad.
On July 11 2011 12:00 Xivsa wrote: Did sixjaxMajor try and qualify for this and fail? Or did he just not try to qualify? He'd be a decent addition, and he's also technically from North America. Not sure if he has the chops, but that MLG run of his wasn't half bad.
He fell one round shy of qualifying I believe. I think he lost to Puma actually. Either Puma or aLive
On July 11 2011 11:57 Rasun wrote: Does anyone know if DRG played in the qualifier? He is the Korean that I most want to see in foreigner tournaments but he doesn't seem to be in any, I hope that changes quick, I love DRG.
On July 11 2011 12:00 Xivsa wrote: Did sixjaxMajor try and qualify for this and fail? Or did he just not try to qualify? He'd be a decent addition, and he's also technically from North America. Not sure if he has the chops, but that MLG run of his wasn't half bad.
He fell one round shy of qualifying I believe. I think he lost to Puma actually. Either Puma or aLive
He lost to TSL(?)Heart 1-2 in RO32, who then lost to Rain who qualified.
How many seasons do you think it will be before they need to figure out some new rule that limits the number of koreans? One korean (Rainbow) was cut while 15 foreigners were cut and replaced with 9 koreans and 4 foriegners.
(those numbers might be a bit off as I did the math in my head and counted Rain as a korean)
On July 11 2011 11:35 chadissilent wrote: 10 North Americans out of 45 players in the North American StarLeague. Awesome.
Yes. Exactly. It's really ridiculous. I do agree players from other continents should participate, but the imbalance here is just too wide.
If anything is imbalanced is that 10 is still too many North Americans in the tournament. I want to watch the best players play. A tournament with a $100,000 prize pool and 80k+ viewers deserves the best players. You could count the number of North Americans who are legitimate threats to win their groups on one hand. Even if you prefer to watch North American players over European and Korean ones, there's no enjoyment to be had watching them get stomped week after week.
Note: Moonglade, Tyler and/or Rainbow may replace Naniwa, TLO and/or Stalife if any of them decide not to partcipate in Season 2.
Edit: Stalife confirmed his withdrawal below ---->
2nd Edit: NVM apparently none of these players will serve as replacements, Season 2 only has 45 players and the runners up in the open qualifier are the standbys...
Damn, i <3: qxc grubby cloud catz and i'll miss drewbies BM
Such a strong player pool, tho I fear for our North American team. I'm hoping Kiwikaki just goes beastmode on the world and starts pwning.
Definitely gonna buy season 2's ticket. It's clear that NASL wants to be taken seriously and now they've (finally) worked out the kinks.
Some of the cuts are a bit of a shame, but I'm really excited about all those who qualified, especially Nightend (who got snubbed from the invites, it's LEGENDARY that he fought his way through the open) and Thorzain, oh and also MKP.
Shame that Grubby only started improving right at the end of this season, but he had his chance last season, now he's just gotta get into Season 3 the hard way.
Edit: PS, thanks SO much for making this thread, it's very handy and is getting me hyped already.
What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
On July 11 2011 11:35 chadissilent wrote: 10 North Americans out of 45 players in the North American StarLeague. Awesome.
Yes. Exactly. It's really ridiculous. I do agree players from other continents should participate, but the imbalance here is just too wide.
You want region balance? Thats just absurd. I want the best games possible. NA players need to step it up and EARN their spots.
I couldn't agree more. I'd much rather see NA players step their games up and play the highest level games they can rather than being seeded just for the sake of "regional balance." If there are only a handful of good enough North Americans, then so be it.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
I hope they do a GSL type style for the groups next season, though change it up a bit for balance.
Start with Puma, he picks a player, maybe a foreigner or a P/Z for balance. Then MC will pick a player, again, a foreigner or a T/Z. Then Sen Then July Then one of DF, Select, Moon or Squirtle.
On July 11 2011 12:33 Dexington wrote: I hope they do a GSL type style for the groups next season, though change it up a bit for balance.
Start with Puma, he picks a player, maybe a foreigner or a P/Z for balance. Then MC will pick a player, again, a foreigner or a T/Z. Then Sen Then July Then one of DF, Select, Moon or Squirtle.
And get your groups that way.
Yea bro thats the best plan ever ( TROLL) "" SeleCT ehhhh i pick maker Nasl commentator: why ? SeleCT : well he sucks so we all agreed to take sucky players in so we all get into season 2 finals and earn 1500 just for showing up.
dude rlly wake up ^^ that plan would be rofl dont forget there in there for the money
On July 11 2011 12:11 AustinCM wrote: Why is this called the North American Star League when North America is the least represented of the 3 major starcraft groups.
I believe it's because the tournament takes place in North America, I don't think the league should prohibit or limit the top players of the sport simply because they aren't in the region the competition takes place in (Barring any travel complications, of course).
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
On July 11 2011 12:33 Dexington wrote: I hope they do a GSL type style for the groups next season, though change it up a bit for balance.
Start with Puma, he picks a player, maybe a foreigner or a P/Z for balance. Then MC will pick a player, again, a foreigner or a T/Z. Then Sen Then July Then one of DF, Select, Moon or Squirtle.
And get your groups that way.
Yea bro thats the best plan ever ( TROLL) "" SeleCT ehhhh i pick maker Nasl commentator: why ? SeleCT : well he sucks so we all agreed to take sucky players in so we all get into season 2 finals and earn 1500 just for showing up.
dude rlly wake up ^^ that plan would be rofl dont forget there in there for the money
wat?
They have to divide the 45 players up some how. I didn't say random fucking players. Who is Maker?
On July 11 2011 12:33 Dexington wrote: I hope they do a GSL type style for the groups next season, though change it up a bit for balance.
Start with Puma, he picks a player, maybe a foreigner or a P/Z for balance. Then MC will pick a player, again, a foreigner or a T/Z. Then Sen Then July Then one of DF, Select, Moon or Squirtle.
And get your groups that way.
Yea bro thats the best plan ever ( TROLL) "" SeleCT ehhhh i pick maker Nasl commentator: why ? SeleCT : well he sucks so we all agreed to take sucky players in so we all get into season 2 finals and earn 1500 just for showing up.
dude rlly wake up ^^ that plan would be rofl dont forget there in there for the money
wat?
They have to divide the 45 players up some how. I didn't say random fucking players. Who is Maker?
A mexican terran player (not another Major's alias)
Any idea as to why only 45 players for the next season?
On July 11 2011 10:40 stalife wrote: Im not playing in season 2. So someone from season 1 that got "cut" might be safe
Why are you withdrawing Stalife?
I can't/don't want to make time for NASL anymore. Almost all of my matches were during my 2 hour "lunch breaks" from work. It's bad in every single level possible. Having to play my first game of the day (no warm up) against players like MC, Ret, Ace, Select, is not something I want... Not to mention I would not want a long drawn out games b/c I'm on my "lunch break". This results in showing bad results, sloppy games, which is not only bad for myself and my team, but also the viewers as well. I wanted to withdraw in the middle, but I decided to continue playing it out.
I bought the HD pass for season 1 and I'm sure I'll buy it for season 2 as well. NASL continues to improve a lot and after a great season 1 playoffs, I'm looking forward to season 2!
On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote: As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours.
I agree. They have had an open tournament for some of the invites for season 2. Why the hell do they have another open to put a person in the finals. The world cup would not have a second round of qualifiers to put someone in the playoffs after group stage.
On July 11 2011 11:57 Rasun wrote: Does anyone know if DRG played in the qualifier? He is the Korean that I most want to see in foreigner tournaments but he doesn't seem to be in any, I hope that changes quick, I love DRG.
Nobody from mvp played sadly.
Really?!?!? Whyyyy?!?!?!?! I didn't notice that, I think almost all of the major teams were represented in the qualifier, is that correct? Seems odd for them not to enter, its not like they have a huge number of players in Code S/A currently.
On July 11 2011 10:40 stalife wrote: Im not playing in season 2. So someone from season 1 that got "cut" might be safe
Why are you withdrawing Stalife?
I can't/don't want to make time for NASL anymore. Almost all of my matches were during my 2 hour "lunch breaks" from work. It's bad in every single level possible. Having to play my first game of the day (no warm up) against players like MC, Ret, Ace, Select, is not something I want... Not to mention I would not want a long drawn out games b/c I'm on my "lunch break". This results in showing bad results, sloppy games, which is not only bad for myself and my team, but also the viewers as well. I wanted to withdraw in the middle, but I decided to continue playing it out.
I bought the HD pass for season 1 and I'm sure I'll buy it for season 2 as well. NASL continues to improve a lot and after a great season 1 playoffs, I'm looking forward to season 2!
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
Thorzain isn't close to MC in skill, he's gotten stomped at every meeting after TSL, in MC's worst matchup.
LOL I love how NASL includes anyone who wants to play and people complain about a lack of NA players.
Meanwhile, if NASL were restricted based on nationality, everyone would complain about discrimination!
Seriously... how can you complain about a tournament that is giving all of us the opportunity to watch the best players on all seven continents duke it out in a truly "global" Starcraft II league?
Seriously... how can you complain about a tournament that is giving all of us the opportunity to watch the best players on all seven continents duke it out in a truly "global" Starcraft II league?
Usually it's because their favorite B-level progamer ends up getting obliterated by superior players.
On July 11 2011 12:11 AustinCM wrote: Why is this called the North American Star League when North America is the least represented of the 3 major starcraft groups.
This has been answered already, but it is the same reason the GSL is still called the GSL, it is about having the best players in the world in a tourney so we get to see the best play, if NA actually was the best it would be a lot of them, but of course at this time it is the Koreans and EU...
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
Thorzain hasn't showed anything besides his TSL3 run Sjow beating europeans is nice but that doesn't have much to do with Eu vs Kr White-Ra, yeah he is good, but I don't think it's inconsistency so as just falling behind
Ret probably has the best chances of those you listed, but he only played a couple koreans in his group play (Ace / MC) and got rocked immediately by Puma.
I like your optimism, and while I agree that Europeans are *capable* of winning games against Koreans, I just don't see it regularly happening across the board.
I mean, look at the koreans that are coming. You've got stellar players like MKP, sC, Moon, and of course koreans that were here for season 1. In fact, the worst koreans in that list are still very strong players such as Hero and Revival. And then when you look at the European list, there are some good players like you listed, but you have others like MoMan, TLO, Bratok, Lowely (who?). I just don't get you saying the europeans are in general as strong as the koreans - I think only the best europeans would be able to consistently beat the worst koreans.
On July 11 2011 13:50 Hakkesshu wrote: MKP in this tourney? NASL 2 got my $20.
I did not buy the NASL 1 ticket, but I just bought NASL 2 minutes ago. Almost all my favorite players are participating, like Hero <3, TOP, MC, Zenio, NaDa (yeah, I like the oGs team), and MKP. This season is going to be great.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
SOOOO many things wrong with this post and here's why:
1. For starters i would be highly surprised if Thorzain becomes better than the top Koreans after training in Korea. The primary reason Huk became good is because he's on ogs and they have MC. Thorzain won't have practice partners of the same caliber on fox united. Even if top Koreans agree to practice with him, there's a huge difference between practicing online with someone, versus practicing NEXT to someone, side by side. Hence Huk's exponential improvement after he started sitting next to MC.
2. Beating MC at TSL was the only notable accomplishment Thorzain has had against Koreans and that was when MC still wasn't taking him seriously. He still lost to MC at MLG, July at Dreamhack, and even Revival with lag in the open brackets. This is not to mention that at MLG he lost to Ret as well and at Dreamhack he didn't even make it out of group play after losing to Hasuobs and July. He managed to qualify for season 2 of NASL because his bracket had no Koreans and he quickly crumbled when he faced the first one.
3. Hasuobs has never beat a Korean in offline conditions and barely etched out a win against Ace with lag.
4. Morrow is good but beating Moon in lag filled conditions then rolling over to July offline does not make you as good as the Koreans.
4. Whitera couldn't even beat Select (who happens to be a very good player, but still not as good as the Korean trained players)
5. Bratock, Mana, Socke, Goody have all been either mediocre (losing to Koreans with lag) or bad (goody)
6. Best foreigner in terms of NASL results is Sen and he isn't even European.
7. Naniwa isn't even playing in NASL 2.
If the Europeans can't even beat the Koreans with lag, what makes you think they are only slightly behind them. Especially considering the influx of new Korean players.
On July 11 2011 14:13 _Darwin_ wrote: North American Star League has 10/45 North Americans.
See your username for this website. Channel his wisdom and you might understand why US players keep dying out in the vast majority of major tournaments.
I'm getting rather annoyed by how many people are complaining about the lack of NA players representing the league. It's not the North American Player Star League, it's a Starcraft League based out of North America.
That being said, I was really, really turned off by NASL at it's birth. It seemed very low budget, and even immature in my eyes. But as they progressed through the season it really improved significantly. I'm very excited for Season 2. If it's anything like what the end of S1 was like, ti will be a huge success, but more than likely we will see improvement from the league the longer it goes on.
On July 11 2011 14:20 VsTerminus wrote: I'm getting rather annoyed by how many people are complaining about the lack of NA players representing the league. It's not the North American Player Star League, it's a Starcraft League based out of North America.
I'm not complaining. I MUCH prefer to have better players than only players from NA. Skill > Origin.
The name is funny now that Korea has most participants, and I'm thankful for that.
Yeah, while I agree thorzain is good, I'm not sure how he has maintained his hype level still after tsl 3, which was an online event for the most part. Every lan he's attended since he has not done well such as mlg, dreamhack and home story.
When thorzain does something noteable at a major lan event, then I'll take notice, but until then he's a bit overhyped.
i reckon they could make more sponsorship money/views if they aired this aiming for the european/korean market rather than an american one. looking at the players it seems to make sense.
perhaps play some of the games on the european/korean server to make it fairer on the majority of the participants?
I'm pretty sure Xeris posted a list that had mOOnGLaDe in the safe zone for Season 2, that might have been before it got cut down to 45 players, though.
On July 11 2011 15:04 kellymilkies wrote: Are you sure mOOnGLaDe did not qualify? Where did you get this list from?
Hmm, its close. 16 players are getting the boot. There are 15 players with a worse record/points than moonglade. And then there are a few tied with him. Stalife being one of them. So moonglade may still be in it.
On July 11 2011 14:59 Khaladas wrote: Lindsey will not be casting....she's a sideline reporter essentially.
Hahaha... just you wait and see . But seriously, I wonder if they will get a permanent side caster to Gretorp... maybe Moletrap or someone along that line?
On July 11 2011 14:59 Khaladas wrote: Lindsey will not be casting....she's a sideline reporter essentially.
Hahaha... just you wait and see . But seriously, I wonder if they will get a permanent side caster to Gretorp... maybe Moletrap or someone along that line?
Rumors are Mister Bitter and Moletrap may become permanent casters for NASL along side Gretorp.
On July 11 2011 14:59 Khaladas wrote: Lindsey will not be casting....she's a sideline reporter essentially.
Hahaha... just you wait and see . But seriously, I wonder if they will get a permanent side caster to Gretorp... maybe Moletrap or someone along that line?
Rumors are Mister Bitter and Moletrap may become permanent casters for NASL along side Gretorp.
Mr Bitter and Gretorp would almost out-mellow each other. But they do have a nice rapport/chemistry.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
Is this a joke post?
Ret - Got destroyed by Puma. Got destroyed by MC at MLG. Thorzain - Beaten by MC twice after TSL also lost to TSL Revival in the NASL open tournament. Sjow - Has lost convincingly to Julyzerg I think three times in the last three months, lost to MMA as well. White Ra - Doesn't practice enough, hasn't happened to play any Koreans for a while, mostly that's because Europeans have knocked him out before he's got a chance. Moon beat him at Dreamhack though.
The Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone in terms of skill, consistancy and results. The gap is far wider now than it has ever been in Sc2 history.
Back in Beta the gap was actually pretty small and foreigners traded games with Koreans without much issue but nowadays Koreans are winning 90%+ of their series versus foreigners and it's higher than that at LAN's.
Across all of Homestory, Dreamhack, MLG and NASL Finals the only foreigners versus Korean wins were.
Idra - MC Slush - Moon Naniwa - Moon Huk - July Huk - Moon Huk - MC Naniwa - MC Sen - Zenio Sen - July Darkforce - Alive.
That's 10 games across four tournaments and five of those results are from Huk and Sen who practice on the Korean server, or in the case of Huk live in a Korean pro gaming house.
The number of games won by Koreans over foreigners is I'm guessing well over 100.
But really, korea is sending SO many top top players, the Americans will HAVE to step up their game. The europeans as well, but they are doing a tad bit better than the americans still. The NASL should become the new GSL, since it invites to all countries, unlike the actual GSL.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
Is this a joke post?
Ret - Got destroyed by Puma. Got destroyed by MC at MLG. Thorzain - Beaten by MC twice after TSL also lost to TSL Revival in the NASL open tournament. Sjow - Has lost convincingly to Julyzerg I think three times in the last three months, lost to MMA as well. White Ra - Doesn't practice enough, hasn't happened to play any Koreans for a while, mostly that's because Europeans have knocked him out before he's got a chance. Moon beat him at Dreamhack though.
The Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone in terms of skill, consistancy and results. The gap is far wider now than it has ever been in Sc2 history.
Back in Beta the gap was actually pretty small and foreigners traded games with Koreans without much issue but nowadays Koreans are winning 90%+ of their series versus foreigners and it's higher than that at LAN's.
Across all of Homestory, Dreamhack, MLG and NASL Finals the only foreigners versus Korean wins were.
Idra - MC Slush - Moon Naniwa - Moon Huk - July Huk - Moon Huk - MC Naniwa - MC Sen - Zenio Sen - July Darkforce - Alive.
That's 10 games across four tournaments and five of those results are from Huk and Sen who practice on the Korean server, or in the case of Huk live in a Korean pro gaming house.
The number of games won by Koreans over foreigners is I'm guessing well over 100.
Ok, so good point on Sjow, the rest of those are hardly shocking. You could replace any of those names with a number of Korean players and nobody would bat an eyelid
. Getting beat by MC and Puma? That doesn't in any way make somebody bad. Ret also whooped MC in the second week of NASL.
I'm gonna let ThorZain's results in the next month speak for that next bit. Again, if you have a decent record against MC, you're doing pretty fucking good. That's what I'm saying, and I gaurantee we're gonna see that in Korea.
I stand by my statement on white-ra.
I still don't understand how you can say "oh, so Darkforce beat Alive, clearly that means nothing".
It DOES mean something. I'm not saying either of those two are particularly good, and that's the difference, I'm saying that both the top koreans and the top europeans would easily beat either of those two and of the top Koreans, this tournament has Puma, MC, and MKP. Those three are gonna rack up a lot of wins, but every other korean out there is gonna have to watch themselves against the europeans.
On July 11 2011 12:23 Quintum_ wrote: What is really turns out to be is the EU + NA vs KR, Group play is really going to be about what foreigners can take games off of Korans and there is only a handful at that. The foreigner community is really going to have to step it up NA and EU or the NASL is going to look like this
35 Team Korea
5 Team EU
5Team NA
While i love to root for foreigner there is only a couple that i can see taking games off top koreans like MC
Na man, team EU is almost as strong as team Korea this time around I think. Team Korea only has three players I would consider to be top koreans: MC, MKP, and Puma (and Puma's legitimacy is still in question, but he certainly impressed me tonight). July is a close runner up of course.
While those three are the top who will be difficult to beat, team EU has some truely stellar players, and Thorzain might actually be BETTER than even those three Koreans I just mentioned, after he trains up a bit in korea... It's gonna be exciting.
So I wouldn't expect team EU to get cut down to a third...
Team NA though... yeah they have some SERIOUS work to do. We need HuK in this SO bad to rep NA. (And don't give me that "he's trained in korea nonsense, if he played in the NASL, he would be the iconic representation of North America, being both Canadian and American).
Edit: And yeah, as long as it's the highest level of play, I'm happy, but I REALLY hope the north americans start really kicking it into gear here. I hate having to cheer on Idra.
Man you are crazy if you think yeam eu is as strong as team korea. Team korea has dominated the last mlg, dreamhack and now nasl. EU players would have done better in all three of these tournaments if that was true.
I'm not talking about the Europeans versus the koreans in any tournament but this one right here, and here I believe the europeans in general are as strong as the koreans that they signed. Look at alive getting beat by darkforce in the Nasl finals for example.
Players which I think are gonna take A LOT of games off of koreans: Ret (who only lost to Puma, the NASL champion all season long). Thorzain (he just keeps getting better and is on a similar skill level as MC, currently they're at 5-8 for MC after playing in TSL, MLG, and HSC3) Sjow (had a weak first season but lately has been showing terrific results against some of the absolute top Europeans including White-Ra and Sase) White-Ra: He's good man, just inconsitent lately.
Basically, right now the Koreans are just a bit more consistent than the europeans, which of course counts for a lot, but it's something that can be improved quite quickly, and I think Ret and Thorzain especially are gonna show us that.
Plus, Nightend took a game off of Puma, so maybe now that he's in Fnatic he'll start doing really well.
Is this a joke post?
Ret - Got destroyed by Puma. Got destroyed by MC at MLG. Thorzain - Beaten by MC twice after TSL also lost to TSL Revival in the NASL open tournament. Sjow - Has lost convincingly to Julyzerg I think three times in the last three months, lost to MMA as well. White Ra - Doesn't practice enough, hasn't happened to play any Koreans for a while, mostly that's because Europeans have knocked him out before he's got a chance. Moon beat him at Dreamhack though.
The Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone in terms of skill, consistancy and results. The gap is far wider now than it has ever been in Sc2 history.
Back in Beta the gap was actually pretty small and foreigners traded games with Koreans without much issue but nowadays Koreans are winning 90%+ of their series versus foreigners and it's higher than that at LAN's.
Across all of Homestory, Dreamhack, MLG and NASL Finals the only foreigners versus Korean wins were.
Idra - MC Slush - Moon Naniwa - Moon Huk - July Huk - Moon Huk - MC Naniwa - MC Sen - Zenio Sen - July Darkforce - Alive.
That's 10 games across four tournaments and five of those results are from Huk and Sen who practice on the Korean server, or in the case of Huk live in a Korean pro gaming house.
The number of games won by Koreans over foreigners is I'm guessing well over 100.
Ok, so good point on Sjow, the rest of those are hardly shocking. You could replace any of those names with a number of Korean players and nobody would bat an eyelid
. Getting beat by MC and Puma? That doesn't in any way make somebody bad. Ret also whooped MC in the second week of NASL.
I'm gonna let ThorZain's results in the next month speak for that next bit. Again, if you have a decent record against MC, you're doing pretty fucking good. That's what I'm saying, and I gaurantee we're gonna see that in Korea.
I stand by my statement on white-ra.
I still don't understand how you can say "oh, so Darkforce beat Alive, clearly that means nothing".
It DOES mean something. I'm not saying either of those two are particularly good, and that's the difference, I'm saying that both the top koreans and the top europeans would easily beat either of those two and of the top Koreans, this tournament has Puma, MC, and MKP. Those three are gonna rack up a lot of wins, but every other korean out there is gonna have to watch themselves against the europeans.
Thorzain doesn't have a good record against MC.
He beat him 3-2 once, using a strat that Blizzard almost insta nerfed straight afterwards.
Since then he's been put in his place by MC three times.
Thorzain is currently 5 wins to 8 losses versus MC and down 3 series to 1. At LAN events (which are what really matter, even if the TSL game was played with both on EU) he is 2 wins and 6 losses. Keep in mind this is MC's worse matchup and Thorzain's best.
Now Polt, he has a good record versus MC. I don't call being behind against a player a good record.
Ret's doing solidly now after a massive slump, but he's nowhere near Korean level and won't win any major tournaments anytime soon.
White Ra hasn't posted results in a long time. The professionalisation of the Sc2 scene has hurt him badly.
Alive is terrible in TvZ, he is in Korea too, his TvP and TvT are a lot better than that. He still could have easilly beaten Darkforce though, it was hardly a crushing defeat. They were close games.
On July 11 2011 17:15 robih wrote: depending on lag NA/EU players will get destroyed by the koreans
This is the stupid part. Koreans just have to make it to the finals and then the lag doesnt matter. So the seeding is all screwed up cuz koreans will lose from lag
Looking bad for team NA and EU. I hope Idra will improve his game, was a shame to not see him at the main bracket. Apart from him, Sheth and Select nobody from team NA really has a chance to make it too far. From EU I guess Thorzain, Sjow and Socke could do pretty well. I'm not sure about Morrow and Ret. Would be kinda sad if the whole main bracket was korean, but hey, it's all about skill.
I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
On July 11 2011 20:09 Micket wrote: I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
watch startale_rainbow play on NA server (he streams that).
i cannot make out any "lag fest", its just minor delay... + Koreans get more and more used to it playing on NA.
So, I wonder if they are even entertaining the idea of changing the format for season 2 finals... Mainly adding double elimination. Or making seed 1 play someone from the league, instead of the winner of the open bracket.
On July 11 2011 21:00 Dac wrote: So, I wonder if they are even entertaining the idea of changing the format for season 2 finals... Mainly adding double elimination. Or making seed 1 play someone from the league, instead of the winner of the open bracket.
Keep in mind that the winner from the league (ret) was only in that position because people that were ahead of him before the last round of the league threw their games away. There is no such thing as a 'winner' in the league system that's followed by playoffs, there's only people that make it through. Ret didn't 'win' the open bracket, he placed first, but only did so because he had to win his last series to qualify. If he had been in a safer position before the last round, he probably would have thrown his last game too.
The current league system actually does reward people that do well in the league, because they're able (to some extent) to avoid certain seeds in the finals bracket. The only downside of the current league system is that it allows the players in later divisions (division 4 and 5) to seeds themselves into better spots then the players in the earlier divisions.
Edit: Fixed league where it said open bracket before.
On July 11 2011 21:00 Dac wrote: So, I wonder if they are even entertaining the idea of changing the format for season 2 finals... Mainly adding double elimination. Or making seed 1 play someone from the league, instead of the winner of the open bracket.
Keep in mind that the winner from the open bracket (ret) was only in that position because people that were ahead of him before the last round of the league threw their games away. There is no such thing as a 'winner' in the league system that's followed by playoffs, there's only people that make it through. Ret didn't 'win' the open bracket, he placed first, but only did so because he had to win his last series to qualify. If he had been in a safer position before the last round, he probably would have thrown his last game too.
The current league system actually does reward people that do well in the league, because they're able (to some extent) to avoid certain seeds in the finals bracket. The only downside of the current league system is that it allows the players in later divisions (division 4 and 5) to seeds themselves into better spots then the players in the earlier divisions.
You are confusing me. Open bracket/tournament was won by Puma (Here). Which put him against the top seeded player from the "league," in this case Ret.
Sure I agree that Ret could've thrown some games if he had known that he would have to face Puma (much tougher than a lot of the other players in the "Main bracket.") but that is not the point. To avoid players wanting to do that, you should reward the player with the highest number of wins by putting him against the worse player in the league NOT some unknown force to be reckon with.
Either way, the worse part is the lack of double elimination or myabe best of 5 in round of 16/8. Because I do not think it is fairs for players that have put so much into the league and then travelled for this tournament to have so little oportunity. Ret played two matches that lasted less than 10 mins, (maps were too small to allow for good macro games plus puma is a beast).
I think a value fair chance more than being able to watch every match or w/e the reasons NASL has for such a simplified main tournament.
On July 11 2011 22:50 Skillver wrote: Whats the reason for no nani????
He is going to GSL + some personal conflicts with NASL (I imagine he wasn't happy with the format, he had 10+ BO3 matches and doing well didn't mean a thing because he lost the tie breakers...)
On July 11 2011 21:00 Dac wrote: So, I wonder if they are even entertaining the idea of changing the format for season 2 finals... Mainly adding double elimination. Or making seed 1 play someone from the league, instead of the winner of the open bracket.
Keep in mind that the winner from the open bracket (ret) was only in that position because people that were ahead of him before the last round of the league threw their games away. There is no such thing as a 'winner' in the league system that's followed by playoffs, there's only people that make it through. Ret didn't 'win' the open bracket, he placed first, but only did so because he had to win his last series to qualify. If he had been in a safer position before the last round, he probably would have thrown his last game too.
The current league system actually does reward people that do well in the league, because they're able (to some extent) to avoid certain seeds in the finals bracket. The only downside of the current league system is that it allows the players in later divisions (division 4 and 5) to seeds themselves into better spots then the players in the earlier divisions.
You are confusing me. Open bracket/tournament was won by Puma (Here). Which put him against the top seeded player from the "league," in this case Ret.
Sure I agree that Ret could've thrown some games if he had known that he would have to face Puma (much tougher than a lot of the other players in the "Main bracket.") but that is not the point. To avoid players wanting to do that, you should reward the player with the highest number of wins by putting him against the worse player in the league NOT some unknown force to be reckon with.
Either way, the worse part is the lack of double elimination or myabe best of 5 in round of 16/8. Because I do not think it is fairs for players that have put so much into the league and then travelled for this tournament to have so little oportunity. Ret played two matches that lasted less than 10 mins, (maps were too small to allow for good macro games plus puma is a beast).
I think a value fair chance more than being able to watch every match or w/e the reasons NASL has for such a simplified main tournament.
Ah sorry, you're right. Where it says open bracket its ment to say league.
Anyhow, my point was: someone is going to have to face the winner from the open bracket, and it's always going to be someone that played the entire league. Ret could not throw any of his games, he needed to win even in the last week to be guaranteed a spot, while others (select, july) threw their games away in order to avoid the first seed. Not to mention that by splitting people up into divisions (some stronger, some weaker), any comparison between divisions is fairly meaningless in the first place.
The best solution would probably be a random draw after all participants for the finals are confirmed.
On July 11 2011 20:09 Micket wrote: I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
On July 11 2011 20:09 Micket wrote: I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
watch startale_rainbow play on NA server (he streams that).
i cannot make out any "lag fest", its just minor delay... + Koreans get more and more used to it playing on NA.
They are definitely getting used to playing with the lag, if you compare the TSL3 to the current TL Opens and NASL open tournaments.
On July 11 2011 20:09 Micket wrote: I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
You fail at maths 10 Koreans out of 50 makes 20%.
too bad there will only be 45 players if i remember correctly so... 17/45 is definitely 38%
On July 11 2011 20:09 Micket wrote: I really can't see Koreans dropping out out of their respective groups. The Europeans and the Americans will surely be whittled away and we would be left with pure Koreans. I mean, we started with 10 Koreans and how we have 17. Before, we had 10% Koreans in the league, and now we have a whopping 38%. That's a 26% increase from last season.
By next season there should be 50% Koreans, and then, there is basically a second GSL, but with way more games, and they are all lag fests because it is KR vs KR but played on the NA server, meaning that the games are sort of meaningless and the league will simply be a money factory.
I don't think that's correct. If I remember correctly I remember Khaldor saying something about how he wish he could obs some of the Korean vs Korean in the NASL qualifiers but couldn't because they were doing it on the Korean server.
I believe when EU vs EU matchups happen they allow it on the EU server too, but yes if an American is playing they get homefield advantage
My personal feelings about NASL becoming GSL #2 is actually kind of exciting, survival of the fittest that should be a wakeup call to NA and EU. Plus now I get to see matches like Puma vs MC live. The Korean Weekly and NASL 2 sound infinitely more exciting then watchin the IPL lol..... It's like choosing between watching amateur league soccer and professional soccer.
On July 11 2011 11:31 JiYan wrote: im genuinely curious if the NASL can remain calling itself the NASL if the players are primarily from korea. just seems odd
The league is based in North America, hence the name. I understand not your curiosity my young padawan.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
i feel as though foreign terran need more prongs to their attacks...
lol joking aside, i completely agree. watching the top level koreans, everything is so finite, so crisp, it's amazing!
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Given how many players are going to be playing from SK, I hope they get to play on the Korean server instead of having, for instance, MarineKing vs Clide on NA.
I'm pretty sure that, because they cast the games live instead of casting off of replays, that playing conditions for Koreans will continue to suck...
Either they play on the NA server and deal with the lag, or the commentators/observers play on the SK server and cause lag spikes, as well... Either way, pretty shite for them, tbh, but doesn't seem to be a problem for them.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
I disagree, this isn't like the olympics, if you want that, that's what the World Cyber Games are for. It would be unfair to not let better players compete simply because of their nationality, it's Global in the sense than anyone can compete, it's not the job of the NASL to make sure that everyone can compete at the top level. They still get to play in the qualifiers and open brackets, it's still global in the sense that everyone can participate, if they get to league divisional play, they should do so based on their skill as a player, not based on their nationality.
I also wouldn't mind 14 Koreans in the next top 16. Just make sure to get the best players. Just compare the round of 16 games, most of which where terribly onesided, with the later rounds.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
Pretty much, although its doesn't have some of the top Europeans. The sad part of IPL is that I know I will never see the amazingness that was Mc sen and MC Puma. Foreign protoss and terrans have such boring styles, they don't have crisp timings and never move out on the map except to attack or pressure. I can never imagine a foreign Terran dropping when charge is 90 % done or killing a spawning pool with 3 multi pronged attacks. Or do something like MC's 3 gate blink stalker on taldarim. The terrans especially have really unvaried builds. Against protoss they either gasless or another variant of 1 rax expo (marauder expo or reaper expo), 2 rax or 1-1-1 all in. Look at pumas builds, or polt going reactor hellion, or something similar. I find it less entertaining to watch.
I'd like to see a mix. If i want to see the best, i can watch the gsl. But i'm also interested and want to support north american players as well, so i'd like to watch a non korean tournament as well. and sometime it's good to see a mix, like the nasl was.
For me it's not a matter of having to watch the top 10 or whatever players in the world, but about wanting to support talent that's over in NA.
This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
On July 12 2011 04:33 seoul_kiM wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again. If you're not watching SC2 to watch the best games between the best players, why are you watching anyways?
That's only one reason among many that one might watch an SC2 game.
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
No man people want to watch the best players. IS FLASH or JAEDONG freaking anything other than Korean? Hell no, and broodwar people still watch them
Watching people who perform not up to PAR with Koreans at all (many in NASL season 1) was the reason why I skipped 90% of the matches and only watched the ones that I was interested in.
Sure some players have so-called "unique" builds, but does that stand up to Korean GSL-par tournament play? I really don't think so...
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
Regardless of what you guys want to see, the sanctity of competition is more important in every regard, the better players should succeed and not be penalized or restricted based on their nationality.
This isn't the Olympics, this isn't WCG, players aren't competing for their nation, they're competing for themselves, to prove who the best player is, not which nation has the best players.
I don't see how it is relevant what MC vs IdrA would have pulled in for viewership, say IdrA gets knocked out in the Ro16, should they give him another chance in the competition to get more viewers? No, because the competition should always come first. Telling Polt or MarineKing or TOP or ScFOU or anyone that they can't play because while they're better than the current competitors, there are too many good Koreans would be absolute bullshit.
I want to see my own favorite players in the finals, but they should earn it on their own merit and until they do, the best players should dominate.
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
Regardless of what you guys want to see, the sanctity of competition is more important in every regard, the better players should succeed and not be penalized or restricted based on their nationality.
This isn't the Olympics, this isn't WCG, players aren't competing for their nation, they're competing for themselves, to prove who the best player is, not which nation has the best players.
I don't see how it is relevant what MC vs IdrA would have pulled in for viewership, say IdrA gets knocked out in the Ro16, should they give him another chance in the competition to get more viewers? No, because the competition should always come first. Telling Polt or MarineKing or TOP or ScFOU or anyone that they can't play because while they're better than the current competitors, there are too many good Koreans would be absolute bullshit.
I want to see my own favorite players in the finals, but they should earn it on their own merit and until they do, the best players should dominate.
At no point did I say that any player should get excluded or a player should get certain privileges just because they are from NA, EU or whatever. All I was getting at is A LOT of people cheer for teams/players that are from their region that is not only in SC but in most sports.
My favorite player is Tyler is he the best player in the world of course not but I like him because he's NA and I can relate to him having a family and being a gamer. To assume everyone loves to watch MC, Nestea and MVP every game because they are the "best" or close to it is just wrong. There's more to fandom then just how well someone plays the game.
If everyone rooted for the team or player at the top of the division that wouldn't be much fun would it, that goes for every sport and that's called "jumping on the band wagon."
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat).
Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat).
Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
I like your analogy! But, as a swede, I have to put in a protest. :-) Canada hasn't been dominating the Olympic hockey since the 1950s - swedish success has since that time been very similar. This is very surprising though, as Canada clearly is the dominating hockey nation in the world.
Personnaly I definitely want tournaments with the best players (well, Koreans), but I also want to be able to cheer for local talents, swedes or europeans.
On July 12 2011 08:45 Kala23 wrote: I also wouldn't mind 14 Koreans in the next top 16. Just make sure to get the best players. Just compare the round of 16 games, most of which where terribly onesided, with the later rounds.
Exactly. The best, closest games at Dreamhack/MLG/NASL were mostly Korean vs Korean.
On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote: As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours.
I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in!
Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament.
I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem.
Nvm waiting for future seasons to buy a ticket, this player pool looks totally awesome! I didn't buy the ticket for the first season because in my opinion there were plenty of players in there that didn't belong in there, but this reason does not hold now. Let the games begin!
On July 12 2011 11:09 Frequencyy wrote: This is quite sad that the north american star league has more koreans than anything. I love the competition but c'mon I don't see GSL inviting 17 people to their tournament...and gsl is supposedly the global starcraft 2 tournament, Now I love gsl but this feels like a one way street at times. It's all because nasl is online and gsl is not but hey I'm fine I love to see my favorite korean players play in between gsl.
I feel the same way, but does anyone else see this turning into online GSL with a couple Elite foreigners in the mix. I can just see this start to snow ball. Don't get me wrong I'd rather watch the best of the best play each other but who doesn't like to watch there favorite home town hero play?
tbh, this is what i want, the best players. over 85k people watched MC vs Puma, so people clearly don't give a shit about nationalities.
How many people do you think would have tuned in for Idra vs MC? Not saying the games would have been better but there are plenty of foreigners with massive fan bases so I would say yes nationalities do matter to people.
Idra first has to make it to a final vs a korean, which I don't see happening.
i'm not sure there would have been any less viewers of the NASL final if it would have been, let's say, HUK vs Idra, or any two highly rated non koreans.
On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote: As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours.
I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in!
Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament.
I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem.
Just wanted to confirm that you pretty much NAILED our thoughts before the season started. We had no idea that the winner of the Open Qualifier would stand a chance to win the Finals. We talked about it and said to ourselves, "Nah, that won't happen."
Since it did, we're re-thinking that strategy now.
On July 11 2011 10:26 Stanlot wrote: As cool as it is that Puma won his first major tournament today, I hope NASL considers removing the open tournament slot in the grand finals bracket of the coming seasons. If I'm not mistaken, the competitors of season 2 and on earn their spots through a qualifier, right? Then there should be no reason for anyone to complain about anyone making it to the finals because they'll have played through the entire league and earned their place. As skilled as Puma is, it feels a bit wrong in my heart that someone who didn't dedicate 9 weeks of group play to the tournament come in and swept the whole thing.
Again, I'm not saying Puma isn't skilled or that he didn't earn his place in the finals. He beat a whole host of amazing players in the open tournament and wiped out even bigger names in the grand finals to win it all. I'm just saying that perhaps there shouldn't be a slot for anyone to just play one day's worth of games to get in while the rest of the players had to play over a course of 9 or so weeks and ungodly hours.
I would guess that everyone is/was QUITE surprised with Puma's performance at the finals. When the Open tournament was announced, it was almost like an afterthought, something to give any schlep with an account a chance to go up against the pro's, generate some interest and excitement. Of course you're going to watch the rest of a tournament you were in!
Go back and look at the original thread announcing it. On NASL's site, they talked about how it would be nice opportunity for the open tournament's winner, but really they were just a sacrificial lamb going against the top seeded player to come out of the main tournament.
I don't think anyone at NASL ever thought the winner of the open tournament would end up being one of the players to make it through to the finals. It did make for some underdog-cheering excitement, I'm not sure NASL considers it a problem.
Just wanted to confirm that you pretty much NAILED our thoughts before the season started. We had no idea that the winner of the Open Qualifier would stand a chance to win the Finals. We talked about it and said to ourselves, "Nah, that won't happen."
Since it did, we're re-thinking that strategy now.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
I disagree, this isn't like the olympics, if you want that, that's what the World Cyber Games are for. It would be unfair to not let better players compete simply because of their nationality, it's Global in the sense than anyone can compete, it's not the job of the NASL to make sure that everyone can compete at the top level. They still get to play in the qualifiers and open brackets, it's still global in the sense that everyone can participate, if they get to league divisional play, they should do so based on their skill as a player, not based on their nationality.
It's up to NASL whether they want to be WCG or GSL.
I'd also like to point out that it's not just the WCG, either, that tries to limit participation. Dreamhack, IEM, and Homestory are all similar in the way they draw up their players list (ie mostly Europeans sprinkled with a few Koreans).
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat).
Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
I like your analogy! But, as a swede, I have to put in a protest. :-) Canada hasn't been dominating the Olympic hockey since the 1950s - swedish success has since that time been very similar. This is very surprising though, as Canada clearly is the dominating hockey nation in the world.
Personnaly I definitely want tournaments with the best players (well, Koreans), but I also want to be able to cheer for local talents, swedes or europeans.
It's because, until 1998, the NHL didn't allow it's players to participate in the olympics (they wouldn't stop the season just for the olympics). And yes, while I realize nowadays the best players from every country are playing in the NHL (so it wouldn't matter if that rule existed now), back in the 70s/80s etc. the NHL was pretty much just Canadian/American. Really hurt Canada's chances of winning anything at the olympics/internationally.
Why are Rain and Select in Team North america, because Select lifes there? If HuK or Jinro would play would they be team korea? (Sorry if this has been answered before I read part of the thread but not everything)
The North American Star League, featuring 10 North Americans and 35 others. NOt that Im complaining, I expect some high quality games, less lulzy ones, but I still find this entertaining. I dunno what other NAs I'd put in though.
PuMa -- winner NASL Open Tournament aLive -- 2nd NASL Open Tournament Clide -- semi final NASL Open Tournament Revival -- semi final NASL Open Tournament LoWeLy -- top 8 NASL Open Tournament NightEnD -- top 8 NASL Open Tournament Rain -- top 8 NASL Open Tournament
sC -- winner NASL S2 Qualifier TOP -- 2nd NASL S2 Qualifier Hero -- semi final NASL S2 Qualifier MarineKing -- semi final NASL S2 Qualifier Moonan -- top 8 NASL S2 Qualifier Check -- top 8 NASL S2 Qualifier Polt -- top 8 NASL S2 Qualifier
On July 15 2011 04:32 Sandermatt wrote: Why are Rain and Select in Team North america, because Select lifes there? If HuK or Jinro would play would they be team korea? (Sorry if this has been answered before I read part of the thread but not everything)
they need to keep the # of NA players in the double digits
On July 28 2011 11:06 coolcor wrote: Poor vines he's the only one who made top 8 in the qualifier that didn't get to play. Especially after Jinro said this during the finals.
On July 12 2011 04:05 ashaman771 wrote: Is there a high level tournament which does not include koreans, but includes all the 'big' names outside of korea? Is that the IPL?
For now, yes. The IPL is a NA/EU/SA tournament primarily, though they do have plans to expand to other regions.
I think to maintain itself as a global star league, NASL needs to have a quota for each region. Otherwise, if one region has better players than every other region, than that region is simply going to eventually replace the other regions with the format NASL is running with, and then it's no longer a global star league except in the qualifiers.
In the Olympics and other international sports competitions, each country gets to send a number of representatives. A single country does not get to send all their players, even if said players are better than the players from every other country in that sport. I think NASL needs to adopt a format like this if it wants to remain a global star league.
If, however, the point is simply to get the best players in the world to come to NA for the finals, then it doesn't matter.
In that case, however, I would hope that NASL would allow players outside of NA to play in their own region when they're playing another player from the same region, which would make for less laggy games.
Well if you look at Olympic hockey, you can draw some comparisons. It's not like Korea is sending all of it's starcraft players, just a bunch sign up and they are the best so they win. It's similar to Canada sending a bunch of really REALLY good hockey players to play for their olympic team because we have a very deep player base, and yeah, our olympic hockey team is normally pretty fucking amazing. But other countries are absolutely competitive, to say the least. USA and Russia are our main competition but slowly but surely we're seeing other countries becoming competitive. Especially Scandinavia, the Swedes and Fins are finally getting quite close to our skill level. (With Finland beating Slovakia I believe for third place last Olympics, though I forget who their women's team beat).
Put that in starcraft terms: I think it's fine that the country with the best players is the country most represented in a league. As long as NASL stays on home soil then it's still the NORTH AMERICAN star league, just like how the national hockey league includes players from all over the world. As long as the NASL is on home soil it also means we'll have players to cheer for, to rise against the ranks of foreign oppression! And I think that's awesome.
I like your analogy! But, as a swede, I have to put in a protest. :-) Canada hasn't been dominating the Olympic hockey since the 1950s - swedish success has since that time been very similar. This is very surprising though, as Canada clearly is the dominating hockey nation in the world.
Personnaly I definitely want tournaments with the best players (well, Koreans), but I also want to be able to cheer for local talents, swedes or europeans.
It's because, until 1998, the NHL didn't allow it's players to participate in the olympics (they wouldn't stop the season just for the olympics). And yes, while I realize nowadays the best players from every country are playing in the NHL (so it wouldn't matter if that rule existed now), back in the 70s/80s etc. the NHL was pretty much just Canadian/American. Really hurt Canada's chances of winning anything at the olympics/internationally.
Precisely my point, we all want to see the best players in the world, and with time those players will come from everywhere, rules that limit which players can participate only slow down the process of everyone reaching the same level.
PS Agreed Swedes are awesome in hockey... Just wish those darn Sedins had been a bit more useful those last few games of the Stanley cup.
On July 28 2011 11:46 Mioraka wrote: This tournament should be called anything but "north American" starleague.
Yes, because being hosted on the NA server, having their studio in America, and having their finals in America, it certainly is a misnomer. Also while I'm here, I'd like to congratulate on creating such an original and poignant comment.
Because this thread is about the NASL Season 2, does anyone happen to know when it is scheduled to begin? Personally, I can't wait to watch the group stages again.
On July 28 2011 11:46 Mioraka wrote: This tournament should be called anything but "north American" starleague.
Yes, because being hosted on the NA server, having their studio in America, and having their finals in America, it certainly is a misnomer. Also while I'm here, I'd like to congratulate on creating such an original and poignant comment.
That's what always confuses me. It's a tournament in North America. Doesn't mean that the name of the tournament is wrong or that it should be limited to NA people.
On July 28 2011 11:46 Mioraka wrote: This tournament should be called anything but "north American" starleague.
Yes, because being hosted on the NA server, having their studio in America, and having their finals in America, it certainly is a misnomer. Also while I'm here, I'd like to congratulate on creating such an original and poignant comment.
That's what always confuses me. It's a tournament in North America. Doesn't mean that the name of the tournament is wrong or that it should be limited to NA people.
The Australian Open isn't limited to Australians. Actually, the last Australian to win the Australian Open did it decades ago.
I cannot wait for this to start hoping that the liike sof MC, Hero, and Squirtles kick some ass!!! After missing out last season Im thinking of actually getting the premium this time round!!!
Well, hasn't my tweet made shit hit the fan. I havent got any information I was hunting information.
The only reason koreans would boycott anytihng would be because of money not being paid, or someone being treated badly. Nothing to do with time schedule.
I dont know whether anything has happened, I was hunting information with my tweet and people as usual failed to read the words in the tweet ^^
On August 12 2011 05:51 FXOpen wrote: I dont know whether anything has happened, I was hunting information with my tweet and people as usual failed to read the words in the tweet ^^
You worded it as a fact. I took the original screenshot, and although someone beat me to the Reddit thread, but it looked pretty clear and you own a team that is half comprised of Koreans.
Now normally I would not have thought much, but when Milkis responded to have you check your DM and deleted the tweet. Seemed mighty suspicious.
And I quote
"do you have that post about Koreans boycotting NASL"
That does not sound like a general inquiry about nothing. It was very direct on a very direct subject.
Does anyone know why it is necessary to link my credit card while paying with PayPal? I'm used to just having money on my paypal account and pay everything with it..
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