On July 05 2011 09:35 labbe wrote: My take on the whole PC vs Console discussion is this: Watching console games is a bit like watching handicap basketball. Sure, it can be fun, but you know it's not really the "real thing"
I think that we should refer to carmac's wisdom here, it doesn't matter if you think that it is a legitimate esport, what matters is that people enjoy watching it and that is what makes it a esport.
I have never made the argument that people shouldn't watch it. I personally just don't care for it since using a handcontroller just isn't as good as a keyboard + mouse.
On July 05 2011 09:39 Charger wrote: Ok so another question, how do these guys know exactly where the other guy is (for the most part anyway)? Is there some mini map the players see or audio clues (when someone takes a weapon or something)? I'm so confused how they don't usually run up on someone facing the complete wrong way.
On July 05 2011 09:39 Charger wrote: Ok so another question, how do these guys know exactly where the other guy is (for the most part anyway)? Is there some mini map the players see or audio clues (when someone takes a weapon or something)? I'm so confused how they don't usually run up on someone facing the complete wrong way.
You can hear people jumping, and picking up items on the map make different sounds depending on the item.
Since I see some people asking questions I've already given an answer to, let me c/c what I wrote earlier in the thread:
Just to give a little bit more information to people not familiar with quake:
The players cannot see the timers you see on the left of your screen. The yellow armors (50 armor points each) and the red armor (100 armor points) re-spawn 25 seconds after being taken, and the 100 health (blue bubble) re-spawns 35 seconds after being taken. The players must mentally calculate when these items will spawn next in order to take them/prevent their enemy from taking them, since having more health & armor than your opponent obviously puts you in a much better position during fights in which damage is exchanged. Players often try to delay some items when they're sure to get them in order to mess the timings of their opponents. That's why a player will often try to get somewhat close to an item even if they can't challenge their enemy for it - they still need to know when the said item has been picked up so they can calculate when it will spawn next. Players who are in a dominant position also often try to delay major items so that two don't spawn at the same time, allowing them to pick one then move across the map to pick the next one. Otherwise, the enemy will likely check which item the dominating player is going for and go take the other one if it's spawning at the same time.
I'll add a few things regarding the weapons: the three main weapons you're going to see used are the rocket launcher, the railgun and the lightning gun. The rocket launcher does the most damage out of the three when you manage to hit direct rockets, but the opponent can often see the rocket coming and dodge it, which is why it's most effective when you're very close to your opponent. You can also "spam" with rockets to prevent your enemy from entering an area and, say, contest an item (if he does try to enter the area he will take initial damage from the rockets - note that this can also be achieved by spamming grenades or spamming plasma bolts which are projectile that look like blue balls of energy. These do less damage than rockets but are fired much more quickly). The rockets have splash damage, meaning that you will lose health if one explodes next to you (i.e. if it hits the wall right behind you), but you'll lose less health than if it was to hit you directly. Since the explosion will also push your model, players sometimes fire a rocket below their feet while jumping in order to reach higher areas of the map thanks to the added push.
The lightning gun gives constant damage to the enemy as long as you're hitting him with it. It is typically used in mid-range situations where the enemy would have the time to dodge a rocket by the time it would get to him.
The railgun fires individual lasers ("rails") that deal 80 dmg to the enemy (I believe a direct rocket deals 100 dmg). It is typically used in long-range situations.
Regarding the spawn system, be aware that there is a limited number of possible spawns on each map (like in sc2) - you can't spawn anywhere. The players know these spawn locations by heart and usually have a general idea of where their opponent is going to spawn after dieing, since the game selects one of the three spawn locations which are the furthest away from the player who made the kill (if I'm not mistaken).
On July 05 2011 09:34 Juliette wrote: wait so, yellow = armor?
what im getting out of this is you control armor/health spawns so you have an advantage...am i close O_o.
There are two different types of armors. One red and one yellow. The Red gives you 150 armor, the yellow only gives you 50. When they say "yellow" they mean the yellow armor.
There are also life pickups, the largest is called the "mega" and gives 100 hp. So, if they say mega they mean a blue sphere worth 100 hp. If they talk about shards, they are small things who spawn in lines and give 25 hp each.
On July 05 2011 09:39 Charger wrote: Ok so another question, how do these guys know exactly where the other guy is (for the most part anyway)? Is there some mini map the players see or audio clues (when someone takes a weapon or something)? I'm so confused how they don't usually run up on someone facing the complete wrong way.
They know that if a player does X he will most likely do Y. If they know that the red armor is spawning in a few seconds they can expect the other player to be heading there.
listen to how Rapha is reasoning, it's really deep stuff. It's like a SC2 player being able to tell what units are coming based of of when the opponent takes his gas.
On July 05 2011 09:35 labbe wrote: My take on the whole PC vs Console discussion is this: Watching console games is a bit like watching handicap basketball. Sure, it can be fun, but you know it's not really the "real thing"
I think that we should refer to carmac's wisdom here, it doesn't matter if you think that it is a legitimate esport, what matters is that people enjoy watching it and that is what makes it a esport.
...
the whole discussion arised because some guy disputed the fact that console fps are less skilled than fps on PC, a ton of people systematically proved him wrong and you come up with this?
On July 05 2011 09:34 Juliette wrote: wait so, yellow = armor?
what im getting out of this is you control armor/health spawns so you have an advantage...am i close O_o.
There are two different types of armors. One red and one yellow. The Red gives you 150 armor, the yellow only gives you 50. When they say "yellow" they mean the yellow armor.
There are also life pickups, the largest is called the "mega" and gives 100 hp. So, if they say mega they mean a blue sphere worth 100 hp. If they talk about shards, they are small things who spawn in lines and give 25 hp each.
Red armor is 100 and shards are 5 (but often are placed by packs of 5)
On July 05 2011 09:34 Juliette wrote: wait so, yellow = armor?
what im getting out of this is you control armor/health spawns so you have an advantage...am i close O_o.
There are two different types of armors. One red and one yellow. The Red gives you 150 armor, the yellow only gives you 50. When they say "yellow" they mean the yellow armor.
There are also life pickups, the largest is called the "mega" and gives 100 hp. So, if they say mega they mean a blue sphere worth 100 hp. If they talk about shards, they are small things who spawn in lines and give 25 hp each.
Red armor is 100 and shards are 5 (but often are placed by packs of 5)
ahh, sorry, I'm not fully versed in the Quake scene yet
And the health bubbles can't bring you above 100 health/shield, whereas the red-yellow-green armors/mega health can. edit : except the +5 shards/bubbles.
On July 05 2011 09:39 Charger wrote: Ok so another question, how do these guys know exactly where the other guy is (for the most part anyway)? Is there some mini map the players see or audio clues (when someone takes a weapon or something)? I'm so confused how they don't usually run up on someone facing the complete wrong way.
Strafejumping makes lots of noise. You can also hear armour / megahealth pickups pretty well as well as teleports / spawning noises / jump pads so you can narrow down where the other guy is. I imagine once you know the map you can predict where they will go since remaining stacked on armour / megahealth is super important.
On July 05 2011 09:35 labbe wrote: My take on the whole PC vs Console discussion is this: Watching console games is a bit like watching handicap basketball. Sure, it can be fun, but you know it's not really the "real thing"
I think that we should refer to carmac's wisdom here, it doesn't matter if you think that it is a legitimate esport, what matters is that people enjoy watching it and that is what makes it a esport.
...
the whole discussion arised because some guy disputed the fact that console fps are less skilled than fps on PC, a ton of people systematically proved him wrong and you come up with this?
I was proven wrong? I didn't see any proof. And here I thought the *fact* that console FPS was technologically & physically limited by its control scheme made it inherently less skill-full...
On July 05 2011 09:34 Juliette wrote: wait so, yellow = armor?
what im getting out of this is you control armor/health spawns so you have an advantage...am i close O_o.
There are two different types of armors. One red and one yellow. The Red gives you 150 armor, the yellow only gives you 50. When they say "yellow" they mean the yellow armor.
There are also life pickups, the largest is called the "mega" and gives 100 hp. So, if they say mega they mean a blue sphere worth 100 hp. If they talk about shards, they are small things who spawn in lines and give 25 hp each.
Red armor is 100 and shards are 5 (but often are placed by packs of 5)
ahh, sorry, I'm not fully versed in the Quake scene yet
On July 05 2011 09:35 labbe wrote: My take on the whole PC vs Console discussion is this: Watching console games is a bit like watching handicap basketball. Sure, it can be fun, but you know it's not really the "real thing"
I think that we should refer to carmac's wisdom here, it doesn't matter if you think that it is a legitimate esport, what matters is that people enjoy watching it and that is what makes it a esport.
...
the whole discussion arised because some guy disputed the fact that console fps are less skilled than fps on PC, a ton of people systematically proved him wrong and you come up with this?
I was proven wrong? I didn't see any proof. And here I thought the *fact* that console FPS was technologically & physically limited by its control scheme made it inherently less skill-full...
hm? you have misunderstood me, I said the other guy was proven wrong
On July 05 2011 09:35 labbe wrote: My take on the whole PC vs Console discussion is this: Watching console games is a bit like watching handicap basketball. Sure, it can be fun, but you know it's not really the "real thing"
I think that we should refer to carmac's wisdom here, it doesn't matter if you think that it is a legitimate esport, what matters is that people enjoy watching it and that is what makes it a esport.
...
the whole discussion arised because some guy disputed the fact that console fps are less skilled than fps on PC, a ton of people systematically proved him wrong and you come up with this?
I was proven wrong? I didn't see any proof. And here I thought the *fact* that console FPS was technologically & physically limited by its control scheme made it inherently less skill-full...
hm? you have misunderstood me, I said the other guy was proven wrong
My bad, misread it. It's almost 3am here, just stayin up to watch this and argue on TL.
Also, for people who actually still believe that Halo or some other console FPS requires more skill, consider the fact that in order to just move around the map the player has to master a complex system called strafe-jumping (something which is so deep it has become a competitive game of itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAjXCWHVJh8), which is not a technical possibility using a gamepad.
@the console vs. PC discussion: put two similiar skilled player in any Console-FPS-Title in a 1v1 and battle it out. one with mouse and keyboard, the other with the so called "controller". then turn off the aim-assist (which is let alone evidence for the skillceiling in console titles). i bet a million €´s, my right liver and my soul that the one with the controller doesnt even get one frag. its that simple. console titles are for casuals, and thats fine. but plz dont compare one of esports finest like quake with garbage nub-magnet titles like halo. its ridiculous.
I don't understand you guys arguing this PC vs Console crap. They tried matchmaking PC and Console together in Halo 3 and had to revert it because it failed horribly. Why? Because all the console players were getting beaten constantly and complained. That is the only evidence to my knowledge of a case were they were allowed to play against each other and that was the result. Everything else you guys are arguing is just theory.
EPT
