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On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5.
I was going to write exactly this, but it seems you beat me to it. Why do people not understand this concept? :\ It's not that hard to realize. Furthermore, the current format is better overall, IMO. Even the Brood War leagues use this group format. It's more efficient, you get 5 games every time (instead of the 5/6 game mix in the old format, depending on who wins), and IMO generally more fair.
Sure, having someone forfeit their games sucks, but it's dumb to say someone got "screwed over" when they legitimately go 1-2 in their group. July will be in Code S next season, so no worries peeps. 
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On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5.
Well that's a valid point, but July had that advantage (which was very small given he had to play Nestea) because he won the first game. Not as many people would be complaining if the winner had to play Nestea I think - but the issue remains that 2 of the 3 players in the group get a free win without having to try.
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On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5.
but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing.
this just wasnt played out fairly.
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On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly.
Trickster didn't have any advantage. Even with his free win over Rain, he still ended up only on equal footing with July. In fact, I'd say July had the mental advantage, as he had just finished beating Trickster.
Had July won vs. NesTea, it would have been Trickster vs. NesTea, while July went up 2-0 in his group. It would be silly to say Trickster would have an advantage against NesTea in this situation, so why is it different when it's July? (For the record, the correct answer is: it's not different.)
This nonsensical fanboyism really needs to stop IMO. :\
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United States7313 Posts
Are we ever going to get Ensnare out of code S T_T.
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On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly.
All I'm saying is that compared to Tester, July got an extra chance to advance. That's what differs the two. Therefore, there IS no advantage given to Tester through that "free win".
Perhaps instead of counting wins, since this "free win" is such a problem, count the losses. In a full group you don't advance if you go 0-2 or 1-2, this means 2 losses and you're out.
After game 2, Tester had 1 loss and 1 [real] game remaining. If he were to lose that game, he would not qualify. P(not advancing after losing first game) = 1/2
In order for July not to qualify, he would have to lose TWO games. P(not advancing after winning first game) = 1/4
The final 1/4 of the cake is of course Nestea, with P(not advancing after winning first "game" vs Rain) = 1/4.
In fact, now that I've written this, this is exactly the same setup as the OLD up/down matches, insert July and Nestea as the code S 3rd seed and the code A fellow, and put Tester as the code S 4th seed (who ends up playing the loser of the first two). How exactly do you still say Tester had an advantage?
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On June 29 2011 07:19 Shichibukai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly. All I'm saying is that compared to Tester, July got an extra chance to advance. That's what differs the two. Therefore, there IS no advantage given to Tester through that "free win". Perhaps instead of counting wins, since this "free win" is such a problem, count the losses. In a full group you don't advance if you go 0-2 or 1-2, this means 2 losses and you're out. After game 2, Tester had 1 loss and 1 [real] game remaining. If he were to lose that game, he would not qualify. P(not advancing after losing first game) = 1/2 In order for July not to qualify, he would have to lose TWO games. P(not advancing after winning first game) = 1/4 The final 1/4 of the cake is of course Nestea, with P(not advancing after winning first "game" vs Rain) = 1/4. In fact, now that I've written this, this is exactly the same setup as the OLD up/down matches, insert July and Nestea as the code S 3rd seed and the code A fellow, and put Tester as the code S 4th seed (who ends up playing the loser of the first two). How exactly do you still say Tester had an advantage?
Still July went 1-1 against Tester and Tester advanced, and I dont think that Tester would have won vs Nestea...
Of courst the new system is better when nobody forfeits. That said in this particular case, it would have been imo more fair to let Nestea advance (hes the champion of last season after all) and let July and Tester play a bo3.
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I missed the second Code S group last night - why do they all have makeup on?
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On June 29 2011 07:19 Shichibukai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly. All I'm saying is that compared to Tester, July got an extra chance to advance. That's what differs the two. Therefore, there IS no advantage given to Tester through that "free win". Perhaps instead of counting wins, since this "free win" is such a problem, count the losses. In a full group you don't advance if you go 0-2 or 1-2, this means 2 losses and you're out. After game 2, Tester had 1 loss and 1 [real] game remaining. If he were to lose that game, he would not qualify. P(not advancing after losing first game) = 1/2 In order for July not to qualify, he would have to lose TWO games. P(not advancing after winning first game) = 1/4 The final 1/4 of the cake is of course Nestea, with P(not advancing after winning first "game" vs Rain) = 1/4. In fact, now that I've written this, this is exactly the same setup as the OLD up/down matches, insert July and Nestea as the code S 3rd seed and the code A fellow, and put Tester as the code S 4th seed (who ends up playing the loser of the first two). How exactly do you still say Tester had an advantage?
Compare the different setups, between having a forfeit and not having one.
Without a forfeiting player, Tester would have to play out and win both of his 2 remaining games after losing his first, in order to end up 2-1. With the forfeiting player, Tester only has to play out and win one game to end up 2-1 and advance.
Without a forfeiting player, July would have to play out and win just one remaining game out of 2 possible ones, after securing a win in the first game against Tester. With a forfeiting player, he still has to play out and win just one game out of 2 possible.
Having the forfeiting player in the group (in the particular way GOM had it played out) benefits the losing player of the first match (Tester in this case), but provides absolutely no benefit to the winning player (July). July still has an advantage over Tester - this is true. But the forfeit just makes it a bit easier for the player who starts off 0-1, and thereby makes the first match less impactful.
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By the way, Nestea vs July game, is SOOOOO goooood.
OMGOMGOMG
I LOVE THAT GAME
So good
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LOL
I laughed until tears came to my eyes when I saw those headshots of the players. Clide and Tester were especially good.
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ist there a picture with group A players wearing make up?
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Guys if we assume NesTea was going to win, the first match doesn't matter, because Tester and July would meet in the final anyway. So all that matters is that last game, and July lost. I don't really see how people are saying "July got screwed" or "The system is flawed", anyway, Rain would probably lose 0-2 if he was still in it you know.
And btw, if Tester had been eliminated we not have nearly as much QQ (actually probably none at all).
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On June 29 2011 07:19 Shichibukai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly. All I'm saying is that compared to Tester, July got an extra chance to advance. That's what differs the two. Therefore, there IS no advantage given to Tester through that "free win". Perhaps instead of counting wins, since this "free win" is such a problem, count the losses. In a full group you don't advance if you go 0-2 or 1-2, this means 2 losses and you're out. After game 2, Tester had 1 loss and 1 [real] game remaining. If he were to lose that game, he would not qualify. P(not advancing after losing first game) = 1/2 In order for July not to qualify, he would have to lose TWO games. P(not advancing after winning first game) = 1/4 The final 1/4 of the cake is of course Nestea, with P(not advancing after winning first "game" vs Rain) = 1/4. In fact, now that I've written this, this is exactly the same setup as the OLD up/down matches, insert July and Nestea as the code S 3rd seed and the code A fellow, and put Tester as the code S 4th seed (who ends up playing the loser of the first two). How exactly do you still say Tester had an advantage?
While I do like this season's format better, I do think that in this case, it's a bit unfair to July that he had to win 2 games out of three against actual players (with 1 game pretty much an insta-loss since it's against Nestea) to advance and Tester only had to win 1 game out of 2 to advance since he had a free win.
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But now we don't get to hear Tastosis talk about how July won all his championships in July 
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Who's the kpop band doing this season?
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On June 29 2011 07:08 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 07:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 29 2011 06:31 Shichibukai wrote:
Opening thread in order to read people cry about the group A situation - I got what I expected! :D
However, look at it this way, the loser of game 2 (the first July-Tester game) HAD to win game 5 to advance, whereas the winner of g2 had a chance (albeit very small, since it's Nestea we're talking about) to seize advancement already in g3.
July got that extra chance, vs Nestea, and blew it. Then ends up fightning Tester for the #2 spot, without Tester getting this additonal opportunity to advance.
In what possible way was July disadvantaged? If anything, Tester was at a disadvantage after losing g2, since he then only had ONE chance remaining - winning g5. July had two chances, winning g3, or winning g5. but july earned that extra chance by actually winning a game. tester got an advantage, his free win, by losing. this just wasnt played out fairly. Trickster didn't have any advantage. Even with his free win over Rain, he still ended up only on equal footing with July. In fact, I'd say July had the mental advantage, as he had just finished beating Trickster. Had July won vs. NesTea, it would have been Trickster vs. NesTea, while July went up 2-0 in his group. It would be silly to say Trickster would have an advantage against NesTea in this situation, so why is it different when it's July? (For the record, the correct answer is: it's not different.) This nonsensical fanboyism really needs to stop IMO. :\
This isn't about fanboyism at all. I could care less who the player was in this situation. Its about running a fair tournament. And this wasn't fair.
Is it really fair, that after July beats Trickster, he is still on even footing with him because of the free win? No. Thats not fair at all. They should have either had Trickster and July play another game, or completely gotten rid of the free wins from Rain.
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On June 29 2011 09:32 mikyaJ wrote:
Guys if we assume NesTea was going to win, the first match doesn't matter, because Tester and July would meet in the final anyway. So all that matters is that last game, and July lost. I don't really see how people are saying "July got screwed" or "The system is flawed", anyway, Rain would probably lose 0-2 if he was still in it you know.
And btw, if Tester had been eliminated we not have nearly as much QQ (actually probably none at all).
Or if the third player was anyone but Nestea but still won vs july. It's just that people are forgetting that july just had to beat either nestea or tester, but since people would give nestea 99% chance to win vs both of them, they just see "free win vs guaranteed loss"
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
This is absolutely unfair.
July won one game, Nestea won one game and Tester won one game, but July is eliminated ((
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EPT
