• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:41
CET 23:41
KST 07:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1792 users

[NASL] Playoffs Day 1 - Page 69

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 67 68 69 70 71 72 Next
Eurekastreet
Profile Joined November 2010
1308 Posts
June 16 2011 20:02 GMT
#1361
Silly question but on 3 bases and with so many roaches, what if Idra goes for a base trade with his roaches ? Couldn't he hope to do a lot of damage/ destroy zenio while building queens and spore crawlers on the base the mutas are not attacking and then win by the skin of his teeth ? Not saying it's realistic (dunno much about zerg unit damage and cost) but isn't it worth trying ?
"2 cannons, it's not one cannons" - White-Ra
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38257 Posts
June 16 2011 20:02 GMT
#1362
Zenio 6-0 vs Idra =)

Happy to see him make it to the finals, poor guy never seems to get much real success or attention.
ciazo
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden7 Posts
June 16 2011 20:02 GMT
#1363
He had Infestors 10 seconds too late mate, He couldave hold it if the infestors were a little bit earlier with a decent fungal (Had a chance to survive it atleast). And with mutas being dealt with he had a just as big chance of winning that game! Mutas at that stage are something you really need to do dmg with.. (with that tech switch)
rysecake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2632 Posts
June 16 2011 20:03 GMT
#1364
On June 17 2011 04:56 Mailing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 04:55 nepeta wrote:
lmao, Zenio earned a gg here I think :p


How so if I may ask


Because he won. Every single one of your posts defends idras ass no matter how well or poorly he played. Why are you bringing up the same argument from yesterday?
The Notorious Winkles
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 16 2011 20:04 GMT
#1365
I think it was still a premature gg from IdrA, but I suppose he's the pro and not me.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 16 2011 20:05 GMT
#1366
On June 17 2011 05:02 Eurekastreet wrote:
Silly question but on 3 bases and with so many roaches, what if Idra goes for a base trade with his roaches ? Couldn't he hope to do a lot of damage/ destroy zenio while building queens and spore crawlers on the base the mutas are not attacking and then win by the skin of his teeth ? Not saying it's realistic (dunno much about zerg unit damage and cost) but isn't it worth trying ?



This is exactly what I do if I see surprise mutas. Run to the natural asap, kill army, kill drones at natural, run up the ramp, kill tech and lair, pray infestors/hydras and spores pop in time before I lose too much dmg while remaking the army. Its a coinflip.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Rammstorm
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1434 Posts
June 16 2011 20:06 GMT
#1367
On June 17 2011 04:56 Mailing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 04:55 nepeta wrote:
lmao, Zenio earned a gg here I think :p


How so if I may ask


By winning over Idra with good builds/Unit-control/decision-making and + Show Spoiler +
ATTITUDE
? All of this, in spite of playing with lag and at 4 am.

GG WP Zenio.

"MC" -> Master of Ceremonies xD
PeZuY
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
935 Posts
June 16 2011 20:06 GMT
#1368
Since both idrA and Zenio are both very high level players, both should know there could be some "non-standard" openings, especially Zenio when he has opened 9 pools against fellow Zerg players in the group stage already. I do not know if idrA did any kind of research of Zenios current games in NASL/overall, but I think it is why he lost it.

I agree that idrA got very, very unlucky in the game one and that is even bigger factor than the research he could've done in Zenio, but dunno how the game 1 end would be if idrA would've done his homework about Zenios ZvZ openings.

Well game two, I personally just feel that idrA could've countered it by getting 1 or 2 ovies when his lair got up and should've really scouted Zenios base.

Best of luck to Zenio against Sen tho, he is gonna need it! :D
Eurekastreet
Profile Joined November 2010
1308 Posts
June 16 2011 20:07 GMT
#1369
On June 17 2011 05:04 Probe1 wrote:
I think it was still a premature gg from IdrA, but I suppose he's the pro and not me.

Can I attempt a "that's what she said" ?
"2 cannons, it's not one cannons" - White-Ra
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 16 2011 20:10 GMT
#1370
Permission ggranted.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
NASL.tv
Profile Joined April 2011
699 Posts
June 16 2011 20:10 GMT
#1371
Thank you for your patience today. We really appreciate it.

For EU audiences, our EU-friendly site (nasl.tv/eu) allows you to tune in to the stream with no spoilers. This is something to bookmark for the next stream if you often find yourself tuning in, in the rebroadcast.

Also, you can access the VOD page directly by using nasl.tv/Videos. This page also offers some cool options such as telling you which VOD's we recommend you to watch, and you can search for specific match ups, players, and race match ups (ZvZ, for example).

Hope everyone has a great day.
Eurekastreet
Profile Joined November 2010
1308 Posts
June 16 2011 20:11 GMT
#1372
On June 17 2011 05:10 Probe1 wrote:
Permission ggranted.


Thanks. Damn I'm gonna miss Steve Carrell next season.
"2 cannons, it's not one cannons" - White-Ra
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 16 2011 20:12 GMT
#1373
Thanks for helping get that fixed up NASL guy.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
June 16 2011 20:15 GMT
#1374
Any comment from NASL on the 480p stream no longer being free? Is it intentional?
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 20:21:24
June 16 2011 20:20 GMT
#1375
lol so many posts discussing only idra? Other people played today... DDE vs Zenio was surprisingly close, great games.
Dodge arrows
SixPackAbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
June 16 2011 20:21 GMT
#1376
@sitromit

they figured out most people watch at that quality even with HD due to shitty internet, and want to make more money :p
Allwars
Profile Joined May 2011
164 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 20:32:20
June 16 2011 20:27 GMT
#1377
So, seeing the results of today, does it mean that IdrA is out of NASL?
diverzee
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden992 Posts
June 16 2011 20:35 GMT
#1378
I really think Diggity is a great caster, I sure wouldn't complain if he's featured more often on NASL or other interesting events. Good voice and good undertanding of the game.
Parting
freeloader625
Profile Joined May 2010
United States180 Posts
June 16 2011 20:37 GMT
#1379
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2011 19:30 Azarkon wrote:
Zenio coin-flipped, but he coin-flipped with a biased coin - he won the mind games - he predicted what Idra would do, and Idra fell into these predictions.

Against anyone else, the specific coin-flips Zenio did may not have paid off, but against Idra, who Zenio has played and studied, it did.

First game, he 10 pooled on a macro map, knowing that Idra would not be able to resist 15 hatching to maximize his economy (because if there's one thing Idra fears, it's being behind on economy). Yet, even with this prediction, it was a coin-flip because Zenio had to count on scouting Idra in a timely manner. He did, and Idra lost.

Second game, they both opened "safe," and then transitioned into their techs of choice. Zenio went for ling baneling aggression, but could not do damage because Idra went the defensive counter - roaches. Idra then attacked Zenio's natural with a roach-ling timing but failed to break him because Zenio had good simcity with his spines. At this point, they were fairly even. Then Zenio coin-flipped mutas. Had Idra put down a hydra den and made a few hydras, or scouted with a speed overlord or overseer and put down some spores, Zenio would've been dead. But Zenio predicted that Idra was afraid of falling behind on roach numbers after losing a bunch during the "all-in" attack, predicted that Idra had a habit of not scouting in ZvZ and relying on standard play, and so his muta switch paid off. Idra lost.

There are two conclusions to be drawn from these games, and it's not about ZvZ. It's about Idra's play style.

It is very easy to mind game Idra because he is predictable, and he is predictable in a very specific way - he is generally not willing to coin-flip. Except for the one game against Sen, where Idra played out of his style and took Sen completely by surprise with a ling spine-crawler cheese, Idra has just about always opened defensive, "safe" builds.

Idra doesn't like to take chances, and because he doesn't like to take chances, he is often vulnerable to builds that DO take chances. What Idra does not seem to understand, or understands but refuses to change his play-style accordingly, is that while you can't win consistently with a coin-flip build against random opponents, you CAN win consistently with a coin-flip build against specific opponents (ie Idra), because no one really plays "randomly."

Consider the first game. If Idra opened 14 pool, he would've been at an advantage. But does anyone really think that Idra is going to open 14 pool 50% of the times on Terminus, and 15 hatch the other 50% of the times? Or how about the second game - was Idra going to hydra switch 50% of the times, and build drones and roaches the other 50% of the times? No, because Idra, especially, does not like coin-flipping. He has a set of responses that he considers the "best" responses to each situation and uses them. These responses, when known by the opponent, or even when not known by the opponent, can easily be used to meta-game Idra into a loss.

Mind games are a part of SC 2, and in the hands of successful players, they make "coin flips" into "calculated risks" that result, more often than not, in wins. Unfortunately, Idra has always been weak at them. That's partly why he loses more than he should and to players with worse mechanics - because they out-mind game him. Idra does not really understand, I feel, how to mind game, or perhaps it is more insightful to say that Idra's mentality towards the game does not allow him to mind game effectively.

That Idra hates playing from a position of disadvantage makes it hard for him to pull off any successful coin-flips, because whereas a player like Zenio is fine with failing a 10 pool and then playing to get back in the game (a process that usually involves doing more coin-flips), Idra is not. This is what separates Idra from many other players - the fact that he is unwilling to coin flip because he does not or cannot play from a position of disadvantage. This is, in fact, a weakness in his game no matter what Idra tries to excuse it as, because it limits his versatility as a player, and makes him predictable.

I don't know if Idra will ever get over this limitation as a player, but until he does, he's probably going to keep losing in this fashion.


Dude great analysis. I felt the same with way while watching Idra play (since the beginning of sc2) but could never put it in words. I would like to point out that however, he is changing ever so slightly and slowly. He has begun to play much more aggressively vs protoss (probably because he thinks he can't win late game) on stream and in tourney play.
Lyrok
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany85 Posts
June 16 2011 20:37 GMT
#1380
Will there be a restream? Missed it
Prev 1 67 68 69 70 71 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 19m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft219
SteadfastSC 170
NeuroSwarm 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9959
Artosis 372
Bonyth 82
Mong 14
Dota 2
Dendi1993
syndereN1019
Other Games
Grubby6835
FrodaN1396
Liquid`Hasu375
Fuzer 303
taco 162
C9.Mang0150
ArmadaUGS149
Trikslyr40
ZombieGrub36
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV40
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 72
• musti20045 41
• RyuSc2 30
• davetesta13
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21306
• WagamamaTV1111
League of Legends
• Doublelift2856
• TFBlade1282
Other Games
• imaqtpie2906
• Shiphtur231
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
11h 19m
WardiTV 2025
14h 19m
Cure vs Creator
Solar vs TBD
herO vs Spirit
Scarlett vs Gerald
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs TBD
WardiTV 2025
1d 12h
OSC
1d 15h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.