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Day1 made me very happy 
I didn't watch the full day but there weren't any technical problems as far as I know?
Saw a shitton of great games.
I really don't care which race or which player wins aslong as they really deserved it by showing good matches
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My stream sez Updates in progress, player will return shortly... Its been liek 2hours :<!
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Immortal-Roach is pretty good against Stalkers.
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On June 04 2011 16:54 TDN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:15 sc14s wrote:
lol, rewatching idra vs mc because it was so epic :D It's not epic. It's that he finally beats MC in a BO3. It's the proudest thing ever happened to foreign community.
Thorzain did the exact same thing in a longer series. I think that was the proudest point for the foreign community because it showed foreigners can win a series vs top koreans.
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On June 04 2011 16:46 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg  you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P letting a p get 4 bases is completely retarded, theres no way any competent zerg would sit back long enough for a toss to do that.. just imo, toss generally cant hold 3 base+ (partially depends on the map) but splitting deathball = deathball isnt so deathy anymore I have seen terran/protoss players play just fine when their actually expanding and not staying on 2 bases while the zerg is on 4-5. Plexa is correct when I have seen terrans actually expanding and actually macroing they do just fine, same goes with protoss. Hell I can tell you its scary facing a protoss that gets on 4 bases, very scary at how fast they can replenish their army due to warpgates and 2 robo's.
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Wow. I sat up watching until about 4:30 am local time, just to see the conclusion of InControl vs Losira. I felt so bad for Losira for having such trouble with lag and keyboard malfunction. I have never seen him that mad before. He didn't even seem happy after the win.  The thing I have always liked most about him is that he always has that smile on his face.
...and after five hours of not being able to sleep (high brain activity) I'm sitting here again. No idea how I will be able to stay up for evening 2. :/
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hi guys,
does anyone know when the rebroadcast for europe will be up? I thought they were rebroadcasting an infinite loop, like last time, but there isn't anything up yet.
Thanks!
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On June 04 2011 16:55 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:54 TDN wrote:On June 04 2011 16:15 sc14s wrote:
lol, rewatching idra vs mc because it was so epic :D It's not epic. It's that he finally beats MC in a BO3. It's the proudest thing ever happened to foreign community. Thorzain did the exact same thing in a longer series. I think that was the proudest point for the foreign community because it showed foreigners can win a series vs top koreans.
its epic to me  you cant tell me any different
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July has always been known to be an aggressive zerg. Zerg rush kekeke came during his dominance. It's his playstyle, its not any weaker than a macro style that idra does. So it's not surprising how it can be a standard, unrisky style for him.
To be honest tho, there aren't a lot of ppl who can play his style. It requires a type of person to do what he does. I think the only player who has the mindset to play his kind of style is Incontrol.
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On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time.
Build 5 cannons per expansion.
I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 04 2011 16:52 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:52 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:49 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly. Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient. Dno about that. They're good at straight up trading armies and hence compounding an existing macro advantage but I dno about whether they're cost efficient in a equal economy game. I meant into the mineral line <.< also come visit sea some time, i'm lonely without you I get 1sec delay on SEA can't forcefield my ramp in time to defend all the cheese
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When are the up to date matches gonna be playing on stream again?
Also, I think zerg is a little bit stronger now than protoss, mostly because of the infestor. If they removed the energy buff like Khadarian Amulet I think that would settle most things. I'm not saying either that's because IdrA won, he really played extremly well against oGsMC and outmacroed and outmicroed him at the end.
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One downside of MLG is that no one is streaming tonight
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons.
Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.-
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On June 04 2011 16:54 Svizcy wrote:
How do you skip intro and stuff? I had to refresh the blue stream once and now i'm watching everything all over again. =__= On June 04 2011 16:52 yawnoC wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XIhyx.png) Click on Idra vs MC to skip the whole introduction TLO vs Losira is also there
There you go :D
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july average game time is like 6 minutes lmao.
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so what, zergs are owning now. perhaps i should remember you that ZvT is still considered pretty balanced and protoss was owning until last month.
once the other races have adjusted to the proper use of infestors and the new playstile of z they will start owning z again. or did you see yesterday once the use of feedback or emp to deal with infestors? ya dont think so.
also its more like idra is owning, Idra did beat MC, but then MC beat Ret. Losira beat TLO, but Naniwa ownd Moon...
So when i think about it, there are only weak Terrans in the Championship Brackets... There is Select who is only known for his TvP so its no surprise he loses against Z. There is SlayersMMA but he didn't play against a Z yet. Sry but Gretorp, TLO and Drewbie are just massively outclassed by players like idrA and Losira.
So lets look at Protoss: Both MC and Naniwa are really really good and both are winning against Zerg.
So the "Zerg Domination" is based on A) The races did not adapt to the Infestor / new Style of Zerg properly yet and B) There are many weak T in Championship Brackets because of the terran domination last year, who didnt drop out yet.
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On June 04 2011 16:49 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2011 16:17 Nolot wrote:
Not surprised zergs are owning, after all the insane buffs they got recently. I'm thinking a ZvZ final for this one, IdrA vs july I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly. Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient.
You can run from a baneling drop. You can't run from a fungal.
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On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.-
I do ^_^_^_^
In fact, I think almost every high level Protoss on SEA has Hallucination as part of their staple PvZ.
I usually just try roll in and outright kill the Zerg when they take a really fast third, but I guess this way works too
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EPT
