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On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income  you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases.
What.. stop making things up please.
If you consistantly chrono boost probes on two Nexii then you'll be ahead in drones until the zerg third goes up. Terran has MULEs which always means the Terran should be ahead of the Zerg economically depending on the number of Orbital's you have. I understand that the advantage of MULE's is fleeting but the advantage normally counterbalances the disadvantage over time.
Also, both races have extremely cost-efficient units whilst Zerg simply does not.
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Aotearoa38207 Posts
On June 04 2011 16:48 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). To be fair, idra could have (at almost any point) switched to pure roach production and rolled over MC.
Isn't that what he was doing all game long?
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On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2011 16:17 Nolot wrote:
Not surprised zergs are owning, after all the insane buffs they got recently. I'm thinking a ZvZ final for this one, IdrA vs july I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly.
Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient.
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On June 04 2011 16:49 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:48 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). To be fair, idra could have (at almost any point) switched to pure roach production and rolled over MC. Isn't that what he was doing all game long?
I thought he was half half macroing and making units. Could be wrong though, the game was at like 6am or something :D
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On June 04 2011 16:48 Emporio wrote:So if I understand the brackets and the tournament correctly, this is who is remaining in the open bracket to play tomorrow with the top 12 of the 16 advancing to Championship bracket. I'm not entirely sure how you determine the top 12 other than super extensive placement matches for losers so this could take a while to do. Cruncher/Axslav MajOr/Bonkarooni Agh/Pokebunny Catz/July Thorzain/xSixShadow KawaiiRice/Namhcir Morrow/SLoG Fenix/ViBE Pretty sick lineup, I don't recognize some of them (Bonkarooni, Shadow), but everyone else pretty much deserves to be there. It's nice to see July making his way up the open bracket so that his trip wasn't a waste. Only possible upsets I can see of the players are TT1, qxc (though he lost to Thorzain), LzGamer, StrifeCro, DeMuslim. I apologize if I didn't include someone else who is notable, I was kinda skimming. http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-columbus-starcraft2-open.htmlhttp://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-columbus-starcraft2-open.html
its not pool play that determines who advances to teh championship bracket. The final 4 out of the winners bracket go into pool play and the other 12 go into the championship bracket. (assuming they can beat the person who is advanced out of the losers open bracket)
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Just thought I'd put a note here
The Open Brackets are Wrong, eMgDarkcell defeated Bonkerooni 2-1 (Not the other way round) for those who are wondering, and as such there shall be an epic rematch of the Gosucup group stages between eMgDarkcell and SixjaxMajor!
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On June 04 2011 16:46 piplup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:38 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 WCH wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:27 papaz wrote:
man a lot can be said of MLG. Great tourney and good livestream but what the hell:
- are they vods and where are they? Not easy to find them at all? No, not for a while, the replays though at in the brackets. they're currently doing a restream of todays stuff, but it's a recording, so it's at different positions for everyone and you can't skip through it. Which is on: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Redhttp://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Blue(blue takes like 30 minutes to get to tastosis and another 30 to get into their match) How do you skip? You cannot skip as far as i'm aware. no, looks like you can skip but it takes a long time.
How? clicking on anything just makes it restart
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Aotearoa38207 Posts
On June 04 2011 16:49 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2011 16:17 Nolot wrote:
Not surprised zergs are owning, after all the insane buffs they got recently. I'm thinking a ZvZ final for this one, IdrA vs july I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly. Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient.
Dno about that. They're good at straight up trading armies and hence compounding an existing macro advantage but I dno about whether they're cost efficient in a equal economy game.
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How does the open losers bracket work? Can they still qualify for the pool spots, does the final 4 of the losers bracket go up against the final 4 of the winners bracket, etc etc?
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I just watched Julys games ... He is sick. He doesnt wanna play macro games with ppl. Logest game was 9:07 ( game time ) LOL.
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On June 04 2011 16:46 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P I have seen terran/protoss players play just fine when their actually expanding and not staying on 2 bases while the zerg is on 4-5. Plexa is correct when I have seen terrans actually expanding and actually macroing they do just fine, same goes with protoss. Hell I can tell you its scary facing a protoss that gets on 4 bases, very scary at how fast they can replenish their army due to warpgates and 2 robo's.
Then luls at them when you realize gateway units aren't really good against roaches anyways.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XIhyx.png)
Click on Idra vs MC to skip the whole introduction
TLO vs Losira is also there
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On June 04 2011 16:52 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:49 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2011 16:17 Nolot wrote:
Not surprised zergs are owning, after all the insane buffs they got recently. I'm thinking a ZvZ final for this one, IdrA vs july I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly. Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient. Dno about that. They're good at straight up trading armies and hence compounding an existing macro advantage but I dno about whether they're cost efficient in a equal economy game.
I meant into the mineral line <.<
also come visit sea some time, i'm lonely without you 
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i'll say it again Idra vs Mc series was an instant classic !
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On June 04 2011 16:52 zYwi3c wrote:
I just watched Julys games ... He is sick. He doesnt wanna play macro games with ppl. Logest game was 9:07 ( game time ) LOL.
He probably realizes he has to play a ton of games and if he loses a game he can just macro the next game so kill them fast and save stamina.
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On June 04 2011 16:53 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:52 zYwi3c wrote:
I just watched Julys games ... He is sick. He doesnt wanna play macro games with ppl. Logest game was 9:07 ( game time ) LOL. He probably realizes he has to play a ton of games and if he loses a game he can just macro the next game so kill them fast and save stamina.
When it comes to July though, it's totally possible that's not even what he's thinking. It might just be his play style.
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How do you skip intro and stuff? I had to refresh the blue stream once and now i'm watching everything all over again. =__=
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On June 04 2011 16:15 sc14s wrote:
lol, rewatching idra vs mc because it was so epic :D
It's not epic. It's that he finally beats MC in a BO3. It's the proudest thing ever happened to foreign community.
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Kawaii and Fenix gogo  !
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On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals
I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time.
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EPT
