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On June 04 2011 17:00 yawnoC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:54 Svizcy wrote:
How do you skip intro and stuff? I had to refresh the blue stream once and now i'm watching everything all over again. =__= Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:52 yawnoC wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XIhyx.png) Click on Idra vs MC to skip the whole introduction TLO vs Losira is also there There you go :D
It redirects me to red stream if i click on that no matter what, and i want to see blue one, lol.
Any other possibilities?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 04 2011 17:02 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg  you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- I do ^_^_^_^ In fact, I think almost every high level Protoss on SEA has Hallucination as part of their staple PvZ. I usually just try roll in and outright kill the Zerg when they take a really fast third, but I guess this way works too Not to sound cocky, but SEA is generally on the cutting edge of strategy >.> too bad SEA mechanics suck too much for them to be more dominant hah.
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On June 04 2011 17:02 Svizcy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:00 yawnoC wrote:On June 04 2011 16:54 Svizcy wrote:
How do you skip intro and stuff? I had to refresh the blue stream once and now i'm watching everything all over again. =__= On June 04 2011 16:52 yawnoC wrote:Click on Idra vs MC to skip the whole introduction TLO vs Losira is also there There you go :D It redirects me to red stream if i click on that no matter what, and i want to see blue one, lol. Any other possibilities?
Pick Losira vs TLO ?
worked for me
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On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.-
Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated.
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On June 04 2011 16:52 yawnoC wrote:Click on Idra vs MC to skip the whole introduction TLO vs Losira is also there
awesome thanks! only missed the idra select match and didn't want to have to leave it running for like an 2 hours.
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Did anyone see any ghosts vs Zerg? Seems like zerg are finally using them to their potential with fg AND np.
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On June 04 2011 17:02 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:49 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:48 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:37 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:36 xbankx wrote:On June 04 2011 16:33 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:22 SundeR. wrote:On June 04 2011 16:20 nAgeDitto wrote:On June 04 2011 16:19 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2011 16:17 Nolot wrote:
Not surprised zergs are owning, after all the insane buffs they got recently. I'm thinking a ZvZ final for this one, IdrA vs july I wouldn't say its the insane buff. If you think about it they're last buff was like 2 patches ago. I just think they're finally figuring out how to play Zerg, just like Protoss players finally figured out how to play protoss despite the constant nerf ever since the beginning of the release of wings of liberty. Pretty spot on imo. If you look at the play style of zergs of early sc2 and zergs of now, theres a MASSIVE difference. think thats what is leading to a huge 'rise' of zergs in major tourneys (of course players that were great even w/ the 'wrong' playstyle pretty much performed well.) I would like to know about this 'insane' buff and where I can read up on it. There's a big difference between Protoss figuring out how to exploit various ridiculousness versus particular races and Zerg figuring out how to adapt to all of those ridiculous exploitations, just saying. I'd say Roach range and Fungal damage/time were some pretty huge buffs. You can read up on them in the patch notes. I'm not saying it's OP, but it definitely increased Zerg's chances of winning. Helions and Reapers can no longer kite Roaches and any type of bio play or drop play is much harder now due to the Fungal buff. I start with 40-50 marines by the time I get to a zergs base Im down to like 20 marines. Fungal is the storm that just keeps giving. No doubt fungal is a really good spell, but it's not like there are equally good things in the Terran arsenal. Blue flame hellions? Medivac drops? Too early to conclude that the fungal buffs made it imba, especially considering the investment that infestors are. Its defintely weaker compared to storm in context since storm+colossus was just luls but yea it is a strong spell and if you compare it out of context it is definitely stronger than storm. I am just quite surprised why I haven't seen infestor drops in mineral line cause when zerg explores that I think the game is gonna be silly. Because baneling drops are stronger/more cost efficient. You can run from a baneling drop. You can't run from a fungal.
If you're doing drops when there's no battles going on, then the protoss army is probably at home. If he spots your drop he'll go and kill it before your infestors get 2 fungals off. If you do it during a battle, not only does that heavily tax your multitasking, it takes that infestor (or two) away from the battle where it's actually needed. Also, every fungal you use on the mineral line is one less fungal you can use in battle.
If you do a baneling drop while a battle's going on, free probes for you. Everything about a baneling drop can be done via shift queuing so it doesn't even take up your multitasking at all. Banelings with +2 will also one shot probes. Missing 4 banelings in battle for PvZ is really not a worry at all.
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Was just watching idra vs mc, my firefox crashed and now I have to watch game1 all over again just to watch game2? 
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On June 04 2011 17:04 Jim7 wrote:
Did anyone see any ghosts vs Zerg? Seems like zerg are finally using them to their potential with fg AND np.
nah none of the terrans wanted to use ghosts sadly. They will realize it eventually ^^
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On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:25 dc302 wrote:
Are people forgetting that part of the reason why Zergs are 'dominating' right now may be because its Losira, Moon and Idra playing? As in, it's more to do with the players themselves, rather than the race imho. Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated.
Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway.
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On June 04 2011 17:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:04 Jim7 wrote:
Did anyone see any ghosts vs Zerg? Seems like zerg are finally using them to their potential with fg AND np. nah none of the terrans wanted to use ghosts sadly. They will realize it eventually ^^
meta game is always evolving :D
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Hm, so the highest seed of the 4 open bracket winners gets placed into pool A? If so, that's pretty good news for July. Just has to hope AxSlav, KawaiiRice, Fenix or Vibe don't make it through. Think he could roll through pool A pretty easily, especially with Naniwa already dropping a series.
Also looks pretty good for Thorzain getting the 3rd seed and pool C, if Cruncher or Major can take a spot. A rematch with MC would amazing.
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On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway.
Then we're back to throwing up the expansion later than the zerg due to scouting.
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On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway.
The thing is, if you go for a 3gate expand, the roachling allin hits just before your hallucination is finished
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On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:On June 04 2011 16:28 Plexa wrote:[quote] Sorry but that's a crap argument ... by implication are you saying that there are no talented players playing other races http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Columbus_Red/ game 2 of idra vs MC coming up The reason protoss are losing against zerg at the moment is that they are all being outmacroed really really badly. That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway.
its sort of a matter of opinion.. i mean hallu does cost precious sentry mana.. and we all know a protoss lacking in FF is pretty much 100% a dead toss since you wont have jack for tech anyways with sentrys and expanding.
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On June 04 2011 17:10 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway. Then we're back to throwing up the expansion later than the zerg due to scouting.
??
You still throw down the expansion. You just throw down cannons, a full wall off and position your army if you scout an all in.
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On June 04 2011 17:10 Nolot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway. The thing is, if you go for a 3gate expand, the roachling allin hits just before your hallucination is finished
Practice your forcefields, they are there for a reason.
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Man... Select has been playing too many 2 v 2's
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On June 04 2011 17:10 Nolot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 17:08 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 17:04 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:59 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:57 youngminii wrote:On June 04 2011 16:55 Dingobloo wrote:On June 04 2011 16:46 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:43 sc14s wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. the issue with expoing as fast them is they can swap over to pure army much faster than you and overrun your expos. this especially goes for P idk game 2 of idra vs mc seems to disagree. both players similar bases all games long, and idras gets the edge because he gets tech (infestors) whereas MC avoids templar (which is the proper response). On June 04 2011 16:46 Devolved wrote:On June 04 2011 16:41 Plexa wrote:On June 04 2011 16:39 SuperStyle wrote:
[quote]
That is because both Terran and Protoss cant match zergs macro as a race in the late game, their goal is simple... Kill the zerg before he gets 4-5 bases because from that point ur only chance of winning is if the zerg makes some really bad mistakes. No it's because Terran and Protoss don't expand aggressively enough against a macro oriented zerg, leading to them falling behind in worker count and income you either need to timing push to kill them, or expand at a similar timing. Well, by the design of the game, it's impossible not to fall behind in worker count vs. Zerg since they can create multiple workers at a time, a feature that grows exponentially throughout the game as their hatch count increases. idk i disagree with that. I think that most of the "zerg needs to be one base ahead' mentality is a consequence of BW where that was the case, but in SC2 if the Zerg is one base ahead they actually have an advantage (economically). Lots of players just seem to accept the one base ahead rule which puts them behind. You'd be surprised at how chronoboosted probes can keep up with larvae inject, and how (using the 1 mule = +4 scvs rule) Terran don't fall behind with 3 orbitals I think game one of Idra vs MC is a greater example of why no protoss do it, you just get too spread out if you want anything to do with collosus. While I agree that "Zerg needs to be 1 base ahead always!" is really stupid, i've just yet to see a strategy that keeps a third safe at a similar timing to a zerg even when you get your natural up at a similar time. Build 5 cannons per expansion. I wish I was joking, as a Protoss you usually end up with too many minerals that you can't dump into units since Zealots are *almost* useless in PvZ, so you just wall off your expansions as best you can and mass cannons. Even better... research hallucination and when you see the zerg expanding, expand yourself because you know you're going to be safe. Why do protoss refuse to use a maphack like hallucination? I'll never know... at least huk does -.- Because as we've seen from all this roach/ling vs 3 gate business, throwing down a hatchery is no indication that it's going to be saturated. Send another phoenix and check the harvester count. It's literally BETTER than scans in terms of maphack, except that you need a lot of sentries, but that's a non issue since PvZ is all about sentries now anyway. The thing is, if you go for a 3gate expand, the roachling allin hits just before your hallucination is finished
this is true
what can i say, you just gotta have some good force fields and simcity
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Thank you to whoever added the shortcut to the table at the top of the thread ^_^
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EPT
